Defense against mean dogs

[black tabby]

Dear fellow CNX expats, 

 

I am one of the expats  who live here for years.

And I have encountered with several hundreds of dog attacks by now.

It is a miracle that I have got any bites.

If you have similar problems while here, I can show you way to get off that stress.

Carry a vinegar spray.  It is cheap, simple, and effective.

Step-by-step instruction for that:

1-Attach a compact screw-top bottle that fits your spray gun as the tank. Bottle of 150-500cc comes in handy.

2-First fill  it up with plain water.

3-Adjust the choke at the nozzle to be able to shoot 6-7meters.

4-Place a few targets within that range and practice well.  So you can shoot calmly & accurately in a critical moment.

Usually, 4 shot/per second is possible in average hands.

5-When you are confident, fill the tank with vinegar(does not have to be full strength).

Water with chili or pepper also works well.

6-Carry it around with you while you are outside home.

My bicycle comes with a drum-shaped holder attached to the steering bar. It is originally a canteen with a large removable lid & carrying handle.

That drum is slung from the steering bar with short nylon belts with plastic couplers.

I also use hand-made over the shoulder type  holster for a walk.  It is good for a snap shot in a close quarter range.

Dogs' sense of smell is 50000 times keener than man.  And the smell of above stuff(vinegar, pepper, or chili) is what they hate worst.

Once they are shot with this, they usually start to avoid you.

Ever since I have adopted my current way, mean dogs are no longer serious threat to me.

When I face them, I can handle the situation with calmness and cold sneer instead of fear.

[sirocco]

hello,

 

very true, for vinegar, which I also use for dogs and cats that revolve around my planters.
As for the pepper mixed in the bottle, it sometimes clogs the nozzle.
So I directly suspect it.
Otherwise, the umbrella that is suddenly opened is very effective.
 

[Puchaiyank]

 handle the situation with calmness and cold sneer instead of fear!  

 

That cold sneer...you learn that at home?

[Damrongsak]

6 hours ago, sirocco said:

...Otherwise, the umbrella that is suddenly opened is very effective.

I learned that from a gal who raised attack dogs and conducted safety training classes for utility and postal workers who encountered dogs in their work.  She would also use a tennis ball mounted on the end of a short PVC pipe handle (50 cm?).

 

 

[torturedsole]

5 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

handle the situation with calmness and cold sneer instead of fear! 

Good point.  I was brought up with household dogs and service dogs.  

 

I don't ever recall being bitten by a dog but suspect that's mostly down to my upbringing and affinity towards them.  

 

Never react with hostility towards an aggressive dog(s), merely act indifferent and this confuses them no end and then they leave you alone.

[darrendsd]

I doubt you have been attacked hundreds of times OP

 

Anyway my defence is either to throw them some food or just stand my ground

 

It;s only when they start showing their teeth that it's time to get worried

 

 

[Orton Rd]

On 7/17/2020 at 3:43 AM, torturedsole said:

Good point.  I was brought up with household dogs and service dogs.  

 

I don't ever recall being bitten by a dog but suspect that's mostly down to my upbringing and affinity towards them.  

 

Never react with hostility towards an aggressive dog(s), merely act indifferent and this confuses them no end and then they leave you alone.

Not if they are crazy or have rabies they don't leave you alone and if they think they can get away with it, often where kids are alone, they will attack. Dogs are nasty, deceptive and dangerous animals.

[Pilotman]

Like Teddy Roosevelt said, walk softly, but carry a big stick. I have been confronted by several dogs on rare occasions, but they all back off when confronted with you holding a batten. I doubt that it would work with a dog suffering from Rabies, but for everyday defence against aggressive looking soi dogs it sees to work fine. 

[Pilotman]

5 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Not if they are crazy or have rabies they don't leave you alone and if they think they can get away with it, often where kids are alone, they will attack. Dogs are nasty, deceptive and dangerous animals.

no they are not, not normally.  Any animal, including humans, that has no shelter, very little food and has to fight to live is going to be dangerous. It's not the dog that is the problem, it's how they are forced to exist and live their life. 

[Eindhoven]

Just now, Orton Rd said:

Not if they are crazy or have rabies they don't leave you alone and if they think they can get away with it, often where kids are alone, they will attack. Dogs are nasty, deceptive and dangerous animals.

 

Utter rubbish. 

 

Don't project your bizarre fears on to innocent animals. I come into contact with dogs every single day. 

None of them conform to your view. Not even one. Some are definitely more cautious, but get to know them and you'll see a completely different side of life.

I don't mean domesticated dogs, who have adapted to life with their owner, but dogs born outside and who live outside.

I actually think domesticated dogs are more dangerous than the outside dogs.

 

[Orton Rd]

4.5 million people bitten by dogs a year, a goof channel for anti dog propaganda

 

[Eindhoven]

2 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

no they are not, not normally.  Any animal, including humans, that has no shelter, very little food and has to fight to live is going to be dangerous. It's not the dog that is the problem, it's how they are forced to exist and live their life. 

 

They are not dangerous anyway. They are cautious. As you allude, they can't just lock their doors and sleep safely at night, like many humans. So they are constantly on alert to danger.

Once they know that you are friend and not foe, they happily relax, until the next episode.

 

Very few dogs I meet are unreasonable and a bit of food usually changes that anyway.

[Eindhoven]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

4.5 million people bitten by dogs a year, a goof channel for anti dog propaganda

 

 

Oh...in that case you are right and we are wrong. (rolling eyes)

 

Are these wild dogs that are biting people or dogs that have owners? Often you'll find that it is someone's dog that does the biting. 

[Pilotman]

4 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Oh...in that case you are right and we are wrong. (rolling eyes)

 

Are these wild dogs that are biting people or dogs that have owners? Often you'll find that it is someone's dog that does the biting. 

And inevitably its the owner that is at fault for not training the dog correctly, or not treating it correctly.  The owners are more dangerous than the dog, often more stupid too.  For example, I make a point of training my dogs such that I can take food off them at any time, even out of their mouths.   Its a small trick that  teaches the dog who is boss and in control and its not them.  They are pack animals and need leading, firmly but with love and care. If, in the case of a soi dogs, they don't get either, then they remain pack animals. 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Pilotman

[Saltire]

Cool idea with the vinegar bottle in a holster.

 

This coolness could be much improved by having TWO bottles and holsters criss crossed accross your chest.

 

How about a poncho to complete the calm look.

 

Worked for Clint Eastwood ????

 

 

[Meat Pie 47]

14 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Oh...in that case you are right and we are wrong. (rolling eyes)

 

Are these wild dogs that are biting people or dogs that have owners? Often you'll find that it is someone's dog that does the biting. 

like this one?

 

[Bob12345]

On 7/16/2020 at 5:24 PM, black tabby said:

4-Place a few targets within that range and practice well.  So you can shoot calmly & accurately in a critical moment.

Usually, 4 shot/per second is possible in average hands

Over the course of 2 years i now can flip a coin in the air, with the same hand grap my vinegar gun, hit the coin in mid air, holster it back, and catch the wet coin.

 

It took some practise, but all dogs now show appropriate respect when i walk up and down my soi at dawn.

[bkk6060]

Kick em in the privates or carry a stick and do it.

That usually works for any animal.

Edited July 19, 2020 by bkk6060

[Pedrogaz]

I find a shot gun to be a much more effective and permanent solution. You can hit the dog with the butt or take more drastic action if more than one dog is involved. 

[pookett]

The nonchalant approach is usually enough.

I have been bitten (nipped) once, the dog in question looked to be the alpha of three so probably territorial, until I chased it off.

I get more trouble when walking my own dog (small breed pup), it likes to challenge the street dogs, which I'm trying to train out of him. Until then I carry a baton, the threat of which, along with controlling my own beast, is enough to see them off.

[LarryLEB]

Orton Rd posted (post number #7): "Dogs are nasty, deceptive, and dangerous animals."

 

In reply to that, Eindhoven (post #10) posted:  "Utter rubbish.  Don't project your bizarre fears on to innocent animals. I come into contact with dogs every single day.  None of them conform to your view. Not even one." (my bolding)  He condemns Orton for projecting.  How?  By making a statement which is also projection! This is hypocritical. 

 

The bolded three words in Eindhoven's quote above are laughable at best, but more accurately could be termed imbecilic.

 

Furthermore, why does he use the word bizarre?  I hope Eindhoven looks very closely at the photo in post #16.  Is it bizarre that some people have realistic fears when you see something like the damage done to that young boy?  

 

  

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by LarryLEB

[Fairynuff]

On 7/16/2020 at 5:24 PM, black tabby said:

am one of the expats  who live here for years.

And I have encountered with several hundreds of dog attacks by now.

Me too..... many years and never once been attacked. I suspect the issue is more to do with you than the dogs.

[Pilotman]

2 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Kick em in the privates or carry a stick and do it.

That usually works for any animal.

humans too 

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, pookett said:

The nonchalant approach is usually enough.

I have been bitten (nipped) once, the dog in question looked to be the alpha of three so probably territorial, until I chased it off.

I get more trouble when walking my own dog (small breed pup), it likes to challenge the street dogs, which I'm trying to train out of him. Until then I carry a baton, the threat of which, along with controlling my own beast, is enough to see them off.

Mine too.  My little girl Shih Tzu is a Toy, so very small, but she thinks she is a Rottweiler. She has a deep sounding bark for a small dog,  so maybe she thinks that entitles her to act big 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Pilotman

[geoff65]

This will work just fine

.

Edited July 19, 2020 by geoff65

[rwill]

In my experience the street dogs back off if you walk towards them.

[WaveHunter]

I ride my mountain bike on a lot of secluded trails on Doi Suthep.  Most of the dogs I encounter are pretty timid; they may bark a lot but don't approach.  When they do approach, that can be a little intimidating, and if they bare their teeth that can be very intimidating.  And it there are more than one...well, that can be terrifying!

 

It's pretty hard to outride them.  The times I've tried, it seems to excite them, not dissuade them.  Once a dog got right up alongside me, just behind my pedal and it was clear he was trying to bite my foot.  I kicked my foot back as hard as I could and hit him right in the mouth.  I had cleated riding shoes on and I heard / felt the cleat hit his teeth.  He immediately stopped.  THAT was just plain luck and nothing more.

 

My strategy now is not when I know a dog is probably going to really attack is NOT to try and outride them but to stop quickly and dismount while there is still distance between me and them, keeping the bike between me and the dog.  I yell loudly and raise my arm with a fist like I have a rock in it, and every time I've done this, the dog(s) backed off! It buys you a few seconds to them reach for something to defend yourself for real.  Dogs are really fast when they are in pursuit and there is NO WAY you're going to be able to reach for pepper spray or anything else while you're trying to peddle and maintain control of the bike!

 

Dogs instinctively fear this aggressive gesture of raising your arm with a fist since they are incapable of grasping objects, and they seem to universally fear the gesture.  Every time I've done this dogs react the same way so I know it's true!  It gives me a few seconds to reach for my bicycle pump that's within easy reach, that I can use to defend myself if the dog advances...but I've never had one do that, especially when I have the metal pump in my hand and start to swing it.  When the piston slides out on a swing, it really freaks a dog out.  Again, it must seem like magic to them!  It's still a dangerous situation but so far (knock on wood) I've never actually been attacked, and a few times my encounter was with a pack of dogs, not just one.

 

My point is, in an actual confrontation, you're not going to have time to reach for a bottle of spray or anything else unless you take immediate and aggressive action.  You need to react immediately.

Edited July 19, 2020 by WaveHunter

[TPUBON]

Lot of good suggestions. 

 

For me I start to sing to them. I guess it hurts their ears because they turn and run. Come to think of it, same thing happens when i sing at karaoke. 555

[Hank Gunn]

On 7/18/2020 at 1:50 PM, darrendsd said:

I doubt you have been attacked hundreds of times OP

 

Anyway my defence is either to throw them some food or just stand my ground

 

It;s only when they start showing their teeth that it's time to get worried

 

 

Not very practical to stop and "stand your ground" or throw some food, when you're on a bike ride.

 

I'll just add that  I've owned a few dogs and cats and consider myself an animal lover, but there are many problem dogs; especially here in "Mai ben rai-land". In my opinion, the OP's suggested solution, being non-lethal and not causing permanent damage/harm is a good one.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Hank Gunn

[Saltire]

34 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I ride my mountain bike on a lot of secluded trails on Doi Suthep.  Most of the dogs I encounter are pretty timid; they may bark a lot but don't approach.  When they do approach, that can be a little intimidating, and if they bare their teeth that can be very intimidating.  And it there are more than one...well, that can be terrifying!

 

It's pretty hard to outride them.  The times I've tried, it seems to excite them, not dissuade them.  Once a dog got right up alongside me, just behind my pedal and it was clear he was trying to bite my foot.  I kicked my foot back as hard as I could and hit him right in the mouth.  I had cleated riding shoes on and I heard / felt the cleat hit his teeth.  He immediately stopped.  THAT was just plain luck and nothing more.

 

My strategy now is not when I know a dog is probably going to really attack is NOT to try and outride them but to stop quickly and dismount while there is still distance between me and them, keeping the bike between me and the dog.  I yell loudly and raise my arm with a fist like I have a rock in it, and every time I've done this, the dog(s) backed off! It buys you a few seconds to them reach for something to defend yourself for real.  Dogs are really fast when they are in pursuit and there is NO WAY you're going to be able to reach for pepper spray or anything else while you're trying to peddle and maintain control of the bike!

 

Dogs instinctively fear this aggressive gesture of raising your arm with a fist since they are incapable of grasping objects, and they seem to universally fear the gesture.  Every time I've done this dogs react the same way so I know it's true!  It gives me a few seconds to reach for my bicycle pump that's within easy reach, that I can use to defend myself if the dog advances...but I've never had one do that, especially when I have the metal pump in my hand and start to swing it.  When the piston slides out on a swing, it really freaks a dog out.  Again, it must seem like magic to them!  It's still a dangerous situation but so far (knock on wood) I've never actually been attacked, and a few times my encounter was with a pack of dogs, not just one.

 

My point is, in an actual confrontation, you're not going to have time to reach for a bottle of spray or anything else unless you take immediate and aggressive action.  You need to react immediately.

You need to take a hint from James Bond and mount sprays in holsters front and back of the bike, hook them up to the bell and squirt vinegar at the mutts by ringing the bell. Kind of a poor mans Aston Martin. ????