U.S. swoops down on Portland protesters after Trump order to protect monuments

[Logosone]

49 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Other than yourself, Trump and the Trump campaign talking point list, does any credible intelligence or law enforcement organization considers ANTIFA to be a danger remotely approaching the scale portrayed in many of the posts above?

 

 

Yes. 

 

At least 47 ANTIFA groups are being watched by the German domestic security agency, BfV, The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution.

 

Naturally domestic security agencies watch groups that are considered dangerous. And ANTIFA are among the most dangerous because they are among the most violent.

 

As we have seen recently in the US where the ANTIFA incited violence cost US businesses and individuals in excess of 1.4 billion US$.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/george-floyd-protests-expensive-civil-disturbance-us-history

[metisdead]

Some posts bickering about the credibility/bias of a news source have been removed.  It has been noticed in past that members from the left mock members from the right for using sources that are the right of center but when a member from the right posts about the bias of sources that lean to the right of center because left of center sources are ok but right of center sources are not ok. 

 

Since there are not many sources that are "Least Biased" any more posts bickering about sources that are left of center or right of center will be removed as the topics are not about the biased nature of news sources. 

 

 

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Yes. 

 

At least 47 ANTIFA groups are being watched by the German domestic security agency, BfV, The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution.

 

Naturally domestic security agencies watch groups that are considered dangerous. And ANTIFA are among the most dangerous because they are among the most violent.

 

As we have seen recently in the US where the ANTIFA incited violence cost US businesses and individuals in excess of 1.4 billion US$.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/george-floyd-protests-expensive-civil-disturbance-us-history

The word antifa is not even mentioned in your link.

 

You have any links for your first and second claim?

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Yes. 

 

At least 47 ANTIFA groups are being watched by the German domestic security agency, BfV, The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution.

 

Naturally domestic security agencies watch groups that are considered dangerous. And ANTIFA are among the most dangerous because they are among the most violent.

 

As we have seen recently in the US where the ANTIFA incited violence cost US businesses and individuals in excess of 1.4 billion US$.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/george-floyd-protests-expensive-civil-disturbance-us-history

 

Nothing about that in the link provided, although I do remember there was such a reference (perhaps from a German language news source?). That said, it doesn't go toward answering the question with regard to the severity of the threat associated with such groups. Being on a watch list is not quite the same as being a top priority national security risk.

 

As for your claim that ANTIFA is "among the most violent" of such groups, and therefore "among the most dangerous", this seems like your own opinion, rather than something originating from a professional agency.

[riclag]

 

 

 

These peaceful protests at monuments are hijacked by the same organized groups that many times use the same techniques,throwing bricks,frozen water bottles and cans , using home made spears,rocks,fireworks, many using umbrellas to shield and hide themselves, while throwing  objects at the police. ! When Violence breaks out  as a result of a peaceful protest its always the same violent organized  groups!   They were going to protest at  the Chris Columbus monument over the week end ! And riots broke out!

 

 The cops got some good footage of their mayhem tactics via helicopter .The feds are activated now and more  of violent actors that participate in these groups are being exposed.

I wonder if the protesters  know what the other protesters are up to, especially when the blm poster holders disassemble their poster and use it for weapons on the police in front of the mob ! 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by riclag

[simple1]

12 hours ago, Chiphigh said:

So what amount of destruction in a city is the amount that would require you to actually deal with reality? 

 

Just a number, 20 million? 50 million? 

 

How many businesses that are shuttered while this stupidity is allowed to continue will be enough for you to decide what is not trivial? What's the number? 

 

How many people need to be harassed or attacked before you can decide to think that is not a trivial matter to be shrugged off as a minor inconvenience? What's your number? 

 

Unbelievable man. 

 

I challenge the unbelievable level of hyperbole from trump admin and supporters. So far I've yet to read proven data all the destruction and 'inconvenience' is created by 'leftists / Marxists blah blah, more likely  the majority by criminal elements. Criminal elements which the US appears to be unable to effectively deal with over the decades, even with the highest proportion worldwide of a prison population. Something seriously wrong in the US over many years for disenfranchised sectors of US society; personally I believe it's a myth it is down to 'leftists'. Please don't get me wrong I have I worked for major US multinationals in the Defence and IT industries, visited the US on business and pleasure over the years and have liked the places I visited. However, IMO the US is going backwards under trump with his extremist partisan rhetoric, America First ideology, promotion of ridiculous conspiracy theories and so on. 

[simple1]

12 hours ago, Chiphigh said:

They just set fire to the police union building in Portland. 

 

But hey, that is just a peaceful protest in your liberal world. 

 

Amazing to be so blind to reality. 

Did you see the amount of damage by the fire, very minimal. Sure a risk but again hyperbole. You keep making inaccurate assumptions regards members based upon your extreme views, time to try a bit more maturity is it not? In the meantime so far as threat and risks are concerned, Oregon reports the highest daily count of new Covid cases (437) since the pandemic began and a white guy arrested for a triple homicide.

 

https://www.kptv.com/news/felon-accused-of-triple-murder-in-northeast-portland/article_63457ab8-cad6-11ea-b7dd-8f156689d8b2.html#tncms-source=block-contextual-fallback

 

 

[checkered flag]

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

So you claim the FBI's assessment wasn't "backed by much", without actually backing up that claim with anything whatsoever. Then again, your own claims regarding ANTIFA, BLM or the "far left" aren't "backed up by much" either, so no surprise. The mandatory HRC mention is dully noted.

More cancel culture bull here!

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

More cancel culture bull here!

So claims are made without any foundation, called out, and your reaction to the calling out is 'cancel culture bull'. Please substantiate the claims made.

[checkered flag]

18 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Did you see the amount of damage by the fire, very minimal. Sure a risk but again hyperbole. You keep making inaccurate assumptions regards members based upon your extreme views, time to try a bit more maturity is it not? In the meantime so far as threat and risks are concerned, Oregon reports the highest daily count of new Covid cases (437) since the pandemic began and a white guy arrested for a triple homicide.

 

https://www.kptv.com/news/felon-accused-of-triple-murder-in-northeast-portland/article_63457ab8-cad6-11ea-b7dd-8f156689d8b2.html#tncms-source=block-contextual-fallback

 

 

And no one was murdered, raped and/or beaten in the mob sponsored summer of love in seattle. 

[checkered flag]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So claims are made without any foundation, called out, and your reaction to the calling out is 'cancel culture bull'. Please substantiate the claims made.

I'm not about running your errands. Do it yourself if you want.

[Logosone]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

I challenge the unbelievable level of hyperbole from trump admin and supporters. So far I've yet to read proven data all the destruction and 'inconvenience' is created by 'leftists / Marxists blah blah, more likely  the majority by criminal elements. Criminal elements which the US appears to be unable to effectively deal with over the decades, even with the highest proportion worldwide of a prison population. Something seriously wrong in the US over many years for disenfranchised sectors of US society; personally I believe it's a myth it is down to 'leftists'. Please don't get me wrong I have I worked for major US multinationals in the Defence and IT industries, visited the US on business and pleasure over the years and have liked the places I visited. However, IMO the US is going backwards under trump with his extremist partisan rhetoric, America First ideology, promotion of ridiculous conspiracy theories and so on. 

The leftist/Marxist ANTIFA ARE criminal elements.

 

Have you not seeen riclag's video above that clearly shows how the ANTIFA use peaceful protests to cause violence and destruction?

 

There is something seriously wrong in the US there are people who defend CRIMINALS like ANTIFA and pretend they do nothing when their central tool is VIOLENCE, destruction and mayhem.

 

This is not just people like you, on a talkboard, this goes RIGHT up to the top echelons of decision makers, as we saw with the mayor of Washington refusing Trump the right to use the Washington police force to restore order in Washington, or the top lawyer in Oregon trying to stop Trump from deploying the DHS in Portland DESPITE the fact that for 48 days Portland has been scarred by organised, never ending ANTIFA violence and destruction.

[Logosone]

Unprecedented levels of violence in Portland's history:

 

 

[theoldgit]

Bickering post removed

[opalred]

trump is trying his hardest to create unrest to run his election on stopping all the looters and violence in the country /it plays to his hillbilly voters

[EVENKEEL]

21 minutes ago, opalred said:

trump is trying his hardest to create unrest to run his election on stopping all the looters and violence in the country /it plays to his hillbilly voters

Are you of the opinion that it's a constitutional right to loot, burn and attack law enforcement? Yes or no.....easy question....

[simple1]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

It's almost funny how you try to defend the criminals. Almost.....but mostly sad,

I have never supported / condoned criminal activity. Tell me why do think it's OK for personal attacks due to difference of opinions, Really does come across you're following the very destructive example set by trump to the detriment of US society.

[checkered flag]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

I have never supported / condoned criminal activity. Tell me why do think it's OK for personal attacks due to difference of opinions, Really does come across you're following the very destructive example set by trump to the detriment of US society.

If this were happening in your country you'd be upset too. These criminal activities are far from spontaneous and receive support from somewhere. Most likely not from within the US. Trump has rattled a lot of cages about the US not wanting to payroll the rest of the planet, and this upsets those looking for handouts. 

[EVENKEEL]

16 minutes ago, simple1 said:

I have never supported / condoned criminal activity. Tell me why do think it's OK for personal attacks due to difference of opinions, Really does come across you're following the very destructive example set by trump to the detriment of US society.

Please tell me how much of your life has been spent in the USA that might give you an insight of our society.

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

Unprecedented levels of violence in Portland's history:

 

 

Thanks. Watched the first 30 minutes or so. At the beginning of the presentation it was made very clear the police do not consider BLM as violent. also the large majority of protesters are non violent, which contradicts many posters opinions. Police are saying there is a small core of agitators carrying out and encouraging acts of violence. Later on in the presentation do the police identify who these core group are members of and so on?

Edited July 21, 2020 by simple1

[simple1]

 

20 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Please tell me how much of your life has been spent in the USA that might give you an insight of our society.

Reading your posts gives me a good enough insight to a certain sector of US society. Other stuff I've already mentioned.

[EVENKEEL]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Reading your posts gives me a good enough insight to a certain sector of US society. Other stuff I've already mentioned.

Is that code for zero time. 

[mtls2005]

Like most things this "president" does, this Portand situation seems to be boomeranging on him?

 

From the "Wall of Moms", to a MASSIVE increase in peaceful protesters ("Hands up please don't shoot me"), the Federales will have to tuck tail and run to another city to terrorize our citizens.

 

What moron thought that this was a good idea?

 

 

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Is that code for zero time. 

No

[Rimmer]

A baiting argumentative attack has been removed, also an off topic meme

[Morch]

13 hours ago, riclag said:

 

 

 

These peaceful protests at monuments are hijacked by the same organized groups that many times use the same techniques,throwing bricks,frozen water bottles and cans , using home made spears,rocks,fireworks, many using umbrellas to shield and hide themselves, while throwing  objects at the police. ! When Violence breaks out  as a result of a peaceful protest its always the same violent organized  groups!   They were going to protest at  the Chris Columbus monument over the week end ! And riots broke out!

 

 The cops got some good footage of their mayhem tactics via helicopter .The feds are activated now and more  of violent actors that participate in these groups are being exposed.

I wonder if the protesters  know what the other protesters are up to, especially when the blm poster holders disassemble their poster and use it for weapons on the police in front of the mob ! 

 

 

 

 

If following the reasoning presented in this post, then all them comments lumping all of the protestors as a single minded mob, imbued with both a well defined ideology and bent on violence, ought to be taken back. You acknowledge protests are peaceful, but "hijacked" by some extreme/violent groups.

 

Got to like that phrase "violence breaks out as a result of peaceful protest". By this rationale, better not to have even peaceful protests, eh? And, of course, violence breaking out got nothing to do with some of the actions and reactions by law enforcement agencies, right? No connection whatsoever, in some posters' world.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, checkered flag said:

If this were happening in your country you'd be upset too. These criminal activities are far from spontaneous and receive support from somewhere. Most likely not from within the US. Trump has rattled a lot of cages about the US not wanting to payroll the rest of the planet, and this upsets those looking for handouts. 

 

"Most likely not from within the US. "

 

Do tell.

 

[EVENKEEL]

48 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

If following the reasoning presented in this post, then all them comments lumping all of the protestors as a single minded mob, imbued with both a well defined ideology and bent on violence, ought to be taken back. You acknowledge protests are peaceful, but "hijacked" by some extreme/violent groups.

 

Got to like that phrase "violence breaks out as a result of peaceful protest". By this rationale, better not to have even peaceful protests, eh? And, of course, violence breaking out got nothing to do with some of the actions and reactions by law enforcement agencies, right? No connection whatsoever, in some posters' world.

What would conservative protesters be labeled as by the left? Let's see...rednecks, hillbillies, KKK, racists...

 

Wait....Are you saying there are good people on both sides....??

[stevenl]

24 minutes ago, Logosone said:

ANTIFA is a clear and present danger, as you posted this nonsense Department of Homeland Security troops are fighting the ANTIFA man to man, assualted with hammers, shot at with mortars and projectiles.

 

This is exactly the assessment of law enforcement agencies:

 

“The city of Portland has been under siege for 47 straight days by a violent mob while local political leaders refuse to restore order to protect their city. Each night, lawless anarchists destroy and desecrate property, including the federal courthouse, and attack the brave law enforcement officers protecting it. "

 

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland

 

ANTIFA follow through with their violent agenda time and time again, see above link detailing 96 violent incidences involving ANTIFA in Portland.  See Seattle WTO protests, see 1st May protests around the world, Turin etc etc.

There are entire zones of certain cities designed "Antifa Zones" which they control with violence. That's what they tried to do in Poland, hence the intervention.

 

But then leftists like you have to defend the vandalism, violence and mayhem of ANTIFA even when it's' staring you in the face.

 

 

Secretary Wolf, you mean the one defending sending the troops to Portland?

 

Seems the mayor, DA and other authorities in Portland disagree with his assessment.

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, Logosone said:

ANTIFA is a clear and present danger, as you posted this nonsense Department of Homeland Security troops are fighting the ANTIFA man to man, assualted with hammers, shot at with mortars and projectiles.

 

This is exactly the assessment of law enforcement agencies:

 

“The city of Portland has been under siege for 47 straight days by a violent mob while local political leaders refuse to restore order to protect their city. Each night, lawless anarchists destroy and desecrate property, including the federal courthouse, and attack the brave law enforcement officers protecting it. "

 

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland

 

ANTIFA follow through with their violent agenda time and time again, see above link detailing 96 violent incidences involving ANTIFA in Portland.  See Seattle WTO protests, see 1st May protests around the world, Turin etc etc.

There are entire zones of certain cities designed "Antifa Zones" which they control with violence. That's what they tried to do in Poland, hence the intervention.

 

But then leftists like you have to defend the vandalism, violence and mayhem of ANTIFA even when it's' staring you in the face.

 

 

 

More hyperbole. Guess that in your mind, events at Portland equate with actual battles fought, rather than being a law enforcement operation.

 

You're citing the very same agency handling matters while disregarding the controversy of actions taken. That doesn't carry a whole lot of weight, unless multiple agencies support such positions. And regardless of this, it still doesn't amount to a "clear and present danger", certainly not on a national scale.

 

ANTIFA are violent. No one denied that. Whether the violence on offer amounts to a serious national level threat is another matter. Whether they are a serious threat on a global level is, as far as I'm aware, not a proposition supported by most agencies.

 

I have not defended ANTIFA. I have not defended vandalism, violence or mayhem. Stop lying.