After 'warning light', British PM halts COVID lockdown unwind

rooster59 · July 31, 2020

After 'warning light', British PM halts COVID lockdown unwind

By Alistair Smout and Paul Sandle

A woman wearing a protective mask walks down the street, as the city and surrounding area faces local restrictions in an effort to avoid a local lockdown being forced upon the area, amid the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak, in Manchester, Britain, July 31, 2020. REUTERS/Molly Darlington

LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Friday postponed a planned easing of the coronavirus lockdown in England after a rise in infections amplified fears of a second deadly surge in COVID-19 cases.

Just hours after Britain imposed tougher measures on swathes of northern England, Johnson announced that casinos, bowling alleys and skating rinks, due to reopen on Saturday, would remain shut for at least two more weeks.

Wedding receptions would also not be allowed.

"We're now seeing a warning light on the dashboard," Johnson told reporters at an online news conference from Downing Street when asked about a second surge.

"Our assessment is that we should now squeeze that brake pedal in order to keep the virus under control."

Britain's death toll from COVID-19 is over 55,000 when deaths from suspected cases are included, and it has the highest "excess death" rate in Europe.

The abrupt halt to the unwind and the imposition of stricter restrictions on more than 4 million people were the biggest reversal to date in Britain's path out of lockdown.

"I know that the steps we are taking will be a real blow to many people," Johnson added. "I am really, really sorry about that but we simply cannot take the risk."

'NEAR THE LIMITS'

As the world grapples with a possible second wave, Johnson said the virus was gathering pace in Asia and Latin America while continental Europe was struggling to keep it under control.

The virus, which first emerged in China, has already killed at least 670,000 people and battered the global economy.

Britain reported 846 new cases on Thursday, the highest daily number in over a month.

UK scientists are no longer confident the reproduction number in England is below 1, the government said on Friday, meaning the epidemic could be growing again.

A separate survey also showed infections were on the rise for the first time since May.

"Evidence from Europe implies that we should take the apparent increase seriously, as acting too late can make lockdowns longer and increase mortality," said Daniel Lawson, lecturer in statistical science at the University of Bristol.

"The UK is clearly close to the tipping point in which the infection grows ... We should be prepared for further rapid action to prevent the infection from getting out of control again."

England's Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty, speaking alongside Johnson, said the government had probably reached the limits of reopening.

"We all know that what we have to try and do is to get to the absolute edge of what we can do in terms of opening up society and the economy without getting to the point where the virus starts to take off again," he said.

"We have probably reached near the limits, or the limits, of what we can do in terms of opening up society."

(Writing by Guy Faulconbridge, Kate Holton and Alistair Smout; Additional reporting by Andy MacAskill; Editing by Nick Macfie and Andrew Cawthorne)

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stephenterry · July 31, 2020

And this will be a continuing UK scenario for many months - and globally - until vaccines are available and distributed throughout the country - world.

The hit on the global economy will be huge, let alone the deaths caused by this insidious virus. We live in interesting times...

Krataiboy · August 1, 2020

6 hours ago, stephenterry said:

And this will be a continuing UK scenario for many months - and globally - until vaccines are available and distributed throughout the country - world.

The hit on the global economy will be huge, let alone the deaths caused by this insidious virus. We live in interesting times...

Cheer up, Stephen. The COVID outbreak is clearly on its last legs and by the time we get a properly tried and tested vaccine, it will probably either have become redundant or largely ineffective against the hundred-plus sons and daughters of Sars 2 already doing the rounds.

Vaccines rushed to market without adequate trials have a chequered history. For this reason, whichever lab wins the current race, their shots must be offered only a voluntary basis, as with flu. Body sovereignty is one of our few remaining human rights not already being trampled on the pretext of beating the pandemic.

Economies which have suffered most in the last six months have done so not because of the virus but as a result of panicky, ill-thought-out political policies, not least business-wrecking lockdowns. Next time around, we need to learn the lesson of Sweden's saner, more rational approach and their healthy subsequent bounce-back.

from the home of CC · August 1, 2020

what did you think would happen when you opened bars? and you even had the US to look upon to see the future. No problem with not opening the schools, with the decisions that are being made they look like they weren't doing the job anyways..

johnnybangkok · August 1, 2020

43 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Cheer up, Stephen. The COVID outbreak is clearly on its last legs and by the time we get a properly tried and tested vaccine, it will probably either have become redundant or largely ineffective against the hundred-plus sons and daughters of Sars 2 already doing the rounds.

Vaccines rushed to market without adequate trials have a chequered history. For this reason, whichever lab wins the current race, their shots must be offered only a voluntary basis, as with flu. Body sovereignty is one of our few remaining human rights not already being trampled on the pretext of beating the pandemic.

Economies which have suffered most in the last six months have done so not because of the virus but as a result of panicky, ill-thought-out political policies, not least business-wrecking lockdowns. Next time around, we need to learn the lesson of Sweden's saner, more rational approach and their healthy subsequent bounce-back.

It is far too early to paint the swedish model as the correct way to go with C19 yet people like yourself are always lauding it as it fits your anti-lockdown narrative.

The fact is Sweden has the highest mortality rate of any of the Nordic countries and one of the highest per capita in the world. This alone should give you pause for thought (but obviously doesn't).

However it is also true their mortality rate has been decreasing steadily from it's April/May peak and is looking better over a longer time frame HOWEVER again it's far too early to say if it was definately the right way to go. And do remember that in the early daysa of the pandemic, the UK did toy with the same 'herd immunity' option that Sweden went for until they saw the extrapolated numbers that indicated 100's of thousands of deaths. They then beat a hasty retreat to lockdown.

Finally, if you do want to hold up a country as the go to example of how to handle this pandemic then South Korea and Taiwan offer a much better solution in their testing, identifying, tracking and isolating model that has seen minimum infection and minimum deaths. Unfortunately this was not available to many countries (the UK being a prime example) who didn't take it seriously enough at the beginning and left it far too late to do much other than lockdown.

stevenl · August 1, 2020

Glad to see the UK, or Boris, is finally taking it seriously and taking quick and decisive action.

Rimmer · August 1, 2020

A conspiracy troll post and a reply have been removed

Krataiboy · August 1, 2020

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

It is far too early to paint the swedish model as the correct way to go with C19 yet people like yourself are always lauding it as it fits your anti-lockdown narrative.

The fact is Sweden has the highest mortality rate of any of the Nordic countries and one of the highest per capita in the world. This alone should give you pause for thought (but obviously doesn't).

However it is also true their mortality rate has been decreasing steadily from it's April/May peak and is looking better over a longer time frame HOWEVER again it's far too early to say if it was definately the right way to go. And do remember that in the early daysa of the pandemic, the UK did toy with the same 'herd immunity' option that Sweden went for until they saw the extrapolated numbers that indicated 100's of thousands of deaths. They then beat a hasty retreat to lockdown.

Finally, if you do want to hold up a country as the go to example of how to handle this pandemic then South Korea and Taiwan offer a much better solution in their testing, identifying, tracking and isolating model that has seen minimum infection and minimum deaths. Unfortunately this was not available to many countries (the UK being a prime example) who didn't take it seriously enough at the beginning and left it far too late to do much other than lockdown.

Pandemics tend to run their course, no matter what measures are taken. Lockdowns simply delay the inevitable. Which is why the UK should have abandoned this disastrous policy once the health service in no danger of being overwhelmed - if it ever was.

Sweden is as guilty as the UK if failing to protect the vulnerable and elderly, and paid the same heavy rice in terms of inflated COVID deaths figures in care homes.

But unlike my homeland, Sweden chose to treat its citizenry like responsible adults rather than wayward children, in the process preserving not just its economy but a way of life preferable to any repressive "new normal" inflicted on the downtrodden Brits.

Mass tracking and tracing like that used in Korea and Taiwan is only feasible when populations have been brainwashed into sacrificing their privacy and personal freedom. Personally, I'd rather keep my civil liberties and risk the virus.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Krataiboy

dunroaming · August 1, 2020

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Cheer up, Stephen. The COVID outbreak is clearly on its last legs and by the time we get a properly tried and tested vaccine, it will probably either have become redundant or largely ineffective against the hundred-plus sons and daughters of Sars 2 already doing the rounds.

Vaccines rushed to market without adequate trials have a chequered history. For this reason, whichever lab wins the current race, their shots must be offered only a voluntary basis, as with flu. Body sovereignty is one of our few remaining human rights not already being trampled on the pretext of beating the pandemic.

Economies which have suffered most in the last six months have done so not because of the virus but as a result of panicky, ill-thought-out political policies, not least business-wrecking lockdowns. Next time around, we need to learn the lesson of Sweden's saner, more rational approach and their healthy subsequent bounce-back.

Meanwhile in the real world, the virus continues to grow with Mexico showing the biggest increase at the moment. We know there is a surge again in Spain and today it was reported that France is seeing a rise in certain areas. Yesterday Johnson stopped all easing of the lockdown with serious spikes in the north of England.

Vaccine testing is going on and so far that seems to be positive. A way to go though before they are confident enough to make it available to the general public.

I do agree that the government have screwed up their response to the virus in the UK and that has cost thousands of lives and wrecked hundreds of small businesses. But that is with hindsight and therefore an easy call to make. You would hope that Johnson and Hancock would be learning as they go on but clearly they are floundering and haven't got a clue how to handle this pandemic.

johnnybangkok · August 1, 2020

32 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Pandemics tend to run their course, no matter what measures are taken. Lockdowns simply delay the inevitable. Which is why the UK should have abandoned this disastrous policy once the health service in no danger of being overwhelmed - if it ever was.

Sweden is as guilty as the UK if failing to protect the vulnerable and elderly, and paid the same heavy rice in terms of inflated COVID deaths figures in care homes.

But unlike my homeland, Sweden chose to treat its citizenry like responsible adults rather than wayward children, in the process preserving not just its economy but a way of life preferable to any repressive "new normal" inflicted on the downtrodden Brits.

Mass tracking and tracing like that used in Korea and Taiwan is only feasible when populations have been brainwashed into sacrificing their privacy and personal freedom. Personally, I'd rather keep my civil liberties and risk the virus.

So by your thoughts the UK should have abondoned lockdown once the NHS was up to scratch, correct? So considering that with lockdown the death total in the UK so far is approx. 46,000 what in your view would be an acceptable number of deaths then? 100,000, 150,000, 200,000?

These are the numbers extrapolated out so I'd be interested to hear just how many you would be willing to sacrifice.

Krataiboy · August 1, 2020

Just now, dunroaming said:

Meanwhile in the real world, the virus continues to grow with Mexico showing the biggest increase at the moment. We know there is a surge again in Spain and today it was reported that France is seeing a rise in certain areas. Yesterday Johnson stopped all easing of the lockdown with serious spikes in the north of England.

Vaccine testing is going on and so far that seems to be positive. A way to go though before they are confident enough to make it available to the general public.

I do agree that the government have screwed up their response to the virus in the UK and that has cost thousands of lives and wrecked hundreds of small businesses. But that is with hindsight and therefore an easy call to make. You would hope that Johnson and Hancock would be learning as they go on but clearly they are floundering and haven't got a clue how to handle this pandemic.

I agree with your last comments about Johnson and Hancock. Regarding a surge in infection rates, this is inevitable as testing becomes more widespread among populations who have not previously been exposed to the virus because of lockdowns.

The important thing to remember is that the COVID death rate is going through the floor (excess deaths in the UK have been below normal for a couple of weeks or so) and that only a tiny fraction of people who become infected go on to develop more than mild symptoms or none at all.

Unfortunately, the fear factor generated by self-serving politicians and their accomplices in the mass media appears to have detached most people from reality, resulting in mass hysteria and paranoia that is worse than anything I can recall - even during the fraught war years.

OneMoreFarang · August 1, 2020

The Brits elected Boris to get Brexit done. Did anybody really expect a competent, hard working and honest PM?

Krataiboy · August 1, 2020

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

So by your thoughts the UK should have abondoned lockdown once the NHS was up to scratch, correct? So considering that with lockdown the death total in the UK so far is approx. 46,000 what in your view would be an acceptable number of deaths then? 100,000, 150,000, 200,000?

These are the numbers extrapolated out so I'd be interested to hear just how many you would be willing to sacrifice.

Boris initially told us purpose of the lockdown was to "flatten the curve" to ensure the NHS could cope. That seemed reasonable at the time. So what's his story now, as rolling lockdowns and compulsory muzzling become the new normal?

Where is your evidence that ongoing lockdowns reduce infections and deaths? I know of none. What IS known is the enormous amount of collateral damage lockdowns cause in terms of human and economic health.

dunroaming · August 1, 2020

30 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

The important thing to remember is that the COVID death rate is going through the floor (excess deaths in the UK have been below normal for a couple of weeks or so) and that only a tiny fraction of people who become infected go on to develop more than mild symptoms or none at all.

I think we are talking at cross purposes here. The death count in the UK may be falling. However in areas the new cases rate is rising and therefore the government have to respond to that. The death rate is irrelevant to some extent as that is the end result. As the new cases fall inevitably the death rate will fall. Even with the new cases rising the death rate will probably remain lower than the original tally as we can now deal more effectively with people who have contacted the virus.

It is not even the fact that the majority of people have relatively mild symptoms, I think 80% is usually mooted. It is the level of response that is demanded to stop the pandemic escalating further that is the relevant thing. In the USA the response has been abysmal, hence the massive death toll and number of cases, 156,000 deaths and 4.65 million cases. Not a time to sit on our hands.

The death toll in Britain is the highest in Europe. That alone is reason to be more vigilant.

Edited August 1, 2020 by dunroaming

johnnybangkok · August 1, 2020

19 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Boris initially told us purpose of the lockdown was to "flatten the curve" to ensure the NHS could cope. That seemed reasonable at the time. So what's his story now, as rolling lockdowns and compulsory muzzling become the new normal?

Where is your evidence that ongoing lockdowns reduce infections and deaths? I know of none. What IS known is the enormous amount of collateral damage lockdowns cause in terms of human and economic health.

Look I’m no fan of Boris and how he has handled this but the undeniable truth is if you couldn’t do a “Taiwan or South Korea“ the only option available was lockdown. And the truth is self-evident; those countries that have eased lockdown recently; Spain, France, Germany, Japan etc are all seeing a massive uptake in infections again (inevitable 2nd wave or not).
To me the most sensible thing to do once lockdown was initiated was to then establish a strict test, identify, track and isolate programme (again see Taiwan and S Korea) and make sure those most vulnerable (the old and at risk category) were completely isolated until the numbers came under control and/or a vaccine was produced. Again Boris and his lot are failing monumentally with this.
I don’t agree though in your thoughts that lockdown was too high a price to pay as its easy to sacrifice those you seem so willing to do when it’s not affecting you personally. And I know of no one who will ever say “ I’m happy to die for the sake of the economy”, which is basically what you are suggesting.

Thingamabob · August 1, 2020

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

So by your thoughts the UK should have abondoned lockdown once the NHS was up to scratch, correct? So considering that with lockdown the death total in the UK so far is approx. 46,000 what in your view would be an acceptable number of deaths then? 100,000, 150,000, 200,000?

These are the numbers extrapolated out so I'd be interested to hear just how many you would be willing to sacrifice.

46,000 is a vast over-statement. At least half of that number is made up of those people who had been infected with covid-19 but actually died from other causes.

johnnybangkok · August 1, 2020

7 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

46,000 is a vast over-statement. At least half of that number is made up of those people who had been infected with covid-19 but actually died from other causes.

Stop with this massively debunked theory or produce some evidence to back it up.

Why on earth would anyone want to exagerate the number of deaths? If anything they would want them lower. Here are the facts:-

From Tuesday 28 April, NHS England and NHS Improvement started to report the number of patient deaths where there has been no COVID-19 positive test result, but where COVID-19 is documented as a direct or underlying cause of death on part 1 or part 2 of the death certification process. This change has been introduced for deaths that occurred on 24th April and subsequently and is shown separately in the region data table only. https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

Plus we all know people are dying of other causes; that's what C19 does, it affects the vulnerable who in turn die of pneumonia or other lung diseases. However, the point is without C19 they would still be alive. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/14/805289669/how-covid-19-kills-the-new-coronavirus-disease-can-take-a-deadly-turn

Edited August 1, 2020 by johnnybangkok

Scott · August 2, 2020

Conspiracy posts removed. Continue and face a suspension.

englishoak · August 2, 2020

And there we are, flip flop once again. Nothing but the official narrative will be tolerated... no matter they keep changing what that is. What are they scared of ? oh yea people making their own minds up, being an individual and getting on with life despite the hurdles, now we are supposed to run away and hide on command.. Sad but true.

Just to keep things in perspective, about 100 million net are added to human population annually 60m so far this year, despite the virus ... its NOT a big deal .. even if 1 million die its STILL not as much as kill TB, Malaria or Dengue annually or a bad flu season.. get a grip the world is sliding into hysterical chaos all around the globe and most have bought into the fear porn. it would be laughable a few years ago this would be tolerated by people but now it seems people are begging for totalitarianism, please destroy peoples livlihoods just shut it all down.. RUN and HIDE, lose everything and do as your told like a good little drone like the gov says, for nothing but a virus with a kill rate of less than 0.5%... talk about being weak minded and easily lead. Pathetic.

When it all goes into a tailspin and continues to get more crazy and worsen remember who put up with and helped it happen. Because for some reason people are like scared rabbits these days...

Edited August 2, 2020 by englishoak

sandyf · August 2, 2020

16 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Personally, I'd rather keep my civil liberties and risk the virus.

Fortunately that is irrelevant.

brucec64 · August 2, 2020

19 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Cheer up, Stephen. The COVID outbreak is clearly on its last legs and by the time we get a properly tried and tested vaccine, it will probably either have become redundant or largely ineffective against the hundred-plus sons and daughters of Sars 2 already doing the rounds.

Vaccines rushed to market without adequate trials have a chequered history. For this reason, whichever lab wins the current race, their shots must be offered only a voluntary basis, as with flu. Body sovereignty is one of our few remaining human rights not already being trampled on the pretext of beating the pandemic.

Economies which have suffered most in the last six months have done so not because of the virus but as a result of panicky, ill-thought-out political policies, not least business-wrecking lockdowns. Next time around, we need to learn the lesson of Sweden's saner, more rational approach and their healthy subsequent bounce-back.

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-strategy-high-death-toll-no-economic-gain-data-2020-7

Sweden's controversial anti-lockdown strategy resulted in a high death toll and no real economic gain, data shows

But don't let facts get in the way...

sandyf · August 2, 2020

12 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

46,000 is a vast over-statement. At least half of that number is made up of those people who had been infected with covid-19 but actually died from other causes.

Good distraction, but you are wrong. Very few actually die from covid and nobody has said otherwise, deaths are attributed to covid.

With covid in the body pre-existing conditions are effectively unprotected and can become fatal.

Many that died without being tested could probably also be attributed to covid and it could also be said that those that died because they were too scared to seek treatment can be attributed to the covid outbreak.

What really is the true death toll of the pandemic?

englishoak · August 2, 2020

27 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-strategy-high-death-toll-no-economic-gain-data-2020-7

Sweden's controversial anti-lockdown strategy resulted in a high death toll and no real economic gain, data shows

But don't let facts get in the way...

Did Swedens economy contract by 15% or more as much of Europe then and have businesses closed down at the same rate as those nations under shut down ? No it hasnt... death rates are unimportant its still way under 0.5% if contracted, its age and other health issues thats the main death factor... countries strategy cant really be compared for many reasons, its just life and btw an article online dosnt make a fact, and even facts are dependent on interpretation and presentation economic models and words can make things look very different with the same figures presented in different ways.. official gov stats and facts are not reliable It depends on how the death rates are counted and what constitutes a covid death also varies in statistics country to country...you may as well compare apples to oranges ...

Id also bet Thailand will have more road related deaths annually .. yet theres no will to do anything about that... its medical hysterics nothing more.

stevenl · August 2, 2020

17 minutes ago, englishoak said:

Did Swedens economy contract by 15% or more as much of Europe then and have businesses closed down at the same rate as those nations under shut down ? No it hasnt... death rates are unimportant its still way under 0.5% if contracted, its age and other health issues thats the main death factor... countries strategy cant really be compared for many reasons, its just life and btw an article online dosnt make a fact, and even facts are dependent on interpretation and presentation economic models and words can make things look very different with the same figures presented in different ways.. official gov stats and facts are not reliable It depends on how the death rates are counted and what constitutes a covid death also varies in statistics country to country...you may as well compare apples to oranges ...

Id also bet Thailand will have more road related deaths annually .. yet theres no will to do anything about that... its medical hysterics nothing more.

Sorry, lost you after the gross exaggeration in your first line, https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53606101

englishoak · August 2, 2020

14 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Sorry, lost you after the gross exaggeration in your first line, https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53606101

Really ? Instead of linking media pages read the reports these media companies lift convenient snippets from... lets look properly shall we at what Eurostat actually says.

The latest Eurostat numbers show that during the second quarter of 2020, that’s over April May and June, Eurozone Gross Domestic Product (GDP) fell by 12.1% and the wider EU economy shrank by 11.9%. And when compared to the same period a year ago.

Eurostat says: seasonally adjusted GDP decreased by 15.0% in the euro area and by 14.4% in the EU in the second quarter of 2020, after -3.1% and -2.5% respectively in the previous quarter.

Id link but im not doing your work for you, if you can be bothered its easy to find and read but i doubt you are.

So you see I wasnt exaggerating at all. Your apology is taken and accepted...

Edited August 2, 2020 by englishoak

stevenl · August 2, 2020

4 minutes ago, englishoak said:

Really ? Instead of linking media pages read the reports these media companies lift convenient snippets from... lets look properly shall we at what Eurostat actually says.

The latest Eurostat numbers show that during the second quarter of 2020, that’s over April May and June, Eurozone Gross Domestic Product (GDP) fell by 12.1% and the wider EU economy shrank by 11.9%. And when compared to the same period a year ago.

Eurostat says: seasonally adjusted GDP decreased by 15.0% in the euro area and by 14.4% in the EU in the second quarter of 2020, after -3.1% and -2.5% respectively in the previous quarter.

I wasnt exaggerating and id link but im not doing your work for you, if you can be bothered its easy to find and read but i doubt you are.

Much of Europe contracted by 15% or more is simply not true, no matter how you try to twist it.

So yes, you were grossly exaggerating.

englishoak · August 2, 2020

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Much of Europe contracted by 15% or more is simply not true, no matter how you try to twist it.

So yes, you were grossly exaggerating.

Just go read the actual document if you can be bothered, it lays out the numbers and youll see some major members exceed 15% but whatever, you stick with the BBC for your facts and stay uninformed. it bothers me not one jot.

tomacht8 · August 2, 2020

13 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Stop with this massively debunked theory or produce some evidence to back it up.

Why on earth would anyone want to exagerate the number of deaths? If anything they would want them lower. Here are the facts:-

From Tuesday 28 April, NHS England and NHS Improvement started to report the number of patient deaths where there has been no COVID-19 positive test result, but where COVID-19 is documented as a direct or underlying cause of death on part 1 or part 2 of the death certification process. This change has been introduced for deaths that occurred on 24th April and subsequently and is shown separately in the region data table only. https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

Plus we all know people are dying of other causes; that's what C19 does, it affects the vulnerable who in turn die of pneumonia or other lung diseases. However, the point is without C19 they would still be alive. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/14/805289669/how-covid-19-kills-the-new-coronavirus-disease-can-take-a-deadly-turn

Here is another fact:

The first two deaths related to the novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) were reported in Germany on March 9. By July 30, 2020, the number of deaths related to the virus in the Federal Republic had risen to 9,134. The median age of death was 82 years.
Source: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1104173/umfrage/todesfaelle-aufgrund-des-coronavirus-in-deutschland-nach-geschlecht/

With this high age median, the question is indeed how much of it would have died without C19.

FritsSikkink · August 2, 2020

20 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Cheer up, Stephen. The COVID outbreak is clearly on its last legs and by the time we get a properly tried and tested vaccine, it will probably either have become redundant or largely ineffective against the hundred-plus sons and daughters of Sars 2 already doing the rounds.

Vaccines rushed to market without adequate trials have a chequered history. For this reason, whichever lab wins the current race, their shots must be offered only a voluntary basis, as with flu. Body sovereignty is one of our few remaining human rights not already being trampled on the pretext of beating the pandemic.

Economies which have suffered most in the last six months have done so not because of the virus but as a result of panicky, ill-thought-out political policies, not least business-wrecking lockdowns. Next time around, we need to learn the lesson of Sweden's saner, more rational approach and their healthy subsequent bounce-back.

Outbreak is on his last legs? What planet do you live on?

Sweden's approach has cost them more deaths than their neighbors, so not a good example.

Bkk Brian · August 2, 2020

34 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Here is another fact:

The first two deaths related to the novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) were reported in Germany on March 9. By July 30, 2020, the number of deaths related to the virus in the Federal Republic had risen to 9,134. The median age of death was 82 years.
Source: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1104173/umfrage/todesfaelle-aufgrund-des-coronavirus-in-deutschland-nach-geschlecht/

With this high age median, the question is indeed how much of it would have died without C19.

In the USA people in their 80s account for less than half of all covid-19 deaths; people in their 40s, 50s and 60s, meanwhile, account for a significantly larger share of those who die.

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After 'warning light', British PM halts COVID lockdown unwind

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