Tourism-reliant Thailand shelves 'travel bubble' plan as Asia virus cases rise

[Chongalulu]

6 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Curious to know more...are you retired or working and/or raising a family or just doing business. For me, a retired person, my interaction with the Thai state bureaucracy is deminimus and consists of two trips to immigration per year for a total of 30 minutes to renew my a "retirement" visa and prove my bank funds after 90 days (90 day reports are done online) and a trip to the Land Transportation Office every 5 years to renew my drivers license. The annual car registrations are done by a service just down from my house for 100 baht. I don't think living as an expatriate gets much easier than this.

Taking your particular circumstances and experiences and extrapolating them out as though they represented a panacea that universally and consistently applied over all immigration offices is either disingenuous or naive. Although mine largely has been trouble free I know of many others who hasn’t. Firstly those whose embassies relying on income letters suddenly stopped or were relying on the combination method have had very different experiences with well documented issues relating to how the 65k per month alternative was variously interpreted by different offices . They may well have previously reflected your views because everything had been straightforward...until it wasn’t. You may well find yourself suddenly in the opposite camp because some arcane change in immigration rules makes life very difficult for you - and that’s the point,no matter how long you’ve been here or what family you have here you can never rely on any kind of security of tenure even if your basic personal situation doesn’t change much.

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

Same here.  I’d even go as far as to pay ฿1,000,000 for some sort of non-revocable lifetime PR status...maybe even a bit more if it includes health insurance until death.

 

i think it might be a tad more than that! the equivalent for New Zealand is running over 60 million baht lol

 

i can't see Thailand pricing itself in the Angola, Sudan price bracket ????

 

personally i think makes 1M baht for 20 year elite visa is actually quite a bargain in comparison

 

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by GeorgeCross

[superal]

Covid 19 , prevention is better than a cure for sure but whilst we wait hopefully for a vaccine there are 2 drugs being used in the UK that are having a big impact on defeating the virus , links below 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52354520

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53467022

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Boy, lets hope there is a vaccine.

Still waiting for HIV, Herpes, etc.

And Hepatitis C keeps mutating they cannot find a vaccine.

If Covid keeps changing along the way, who knows.

It's a sound post. Molecular level bio-chemistry has made blistering advances in the last 10 years, but there is still a huge journey to travel there. The more we know the more incredibly complex it becomes. Some of the layman's glib solutions - here and elsewhere - just don't take this complexity into account. 

 

I remain optimistic on the vaccine front though. There are two leading reasons why the common cold virus has no vaccines, firstly because it is relatively harmless, and secondly because like flu it comes in so many varieties. The financial imperative for the Pharma industries is not there.

 

Covid -19, unless people are utterly deluded, is much more serious. There is a huge investment in research here now. HIV, Herpes, Hep C, the common cold, flu, etc, don't bring the strongest economies in the world grinding to a halt. If we just let it run it's course there will be millions and millions of deaths. Even our largely pathetic bunch of national leaders don't want that much blood on their hands, given the idea that "Saving the economy" by letting the pandemic roll is just a theory.

 

Tragically we are in for a long deep recession. Social unrest is also on the cards, as I cannot see taxes from the young going on supporting the boomers in the style they feel entitled to.

 

3 verses from a song about the Great Depression.  Sobering.

 

Blind Alfred Reed. 1929. 

There once was a time when everything was cheap,  now prices gonna make a poor man weep.
When we pay our grocery bill, we just feel like making our will, 

Tell me how can a poor man stand such times and live.

 

I remember when dry goods were cheap as dirt, we could take two bits and buy a dandy shirt.

Now we pay three bucks or more, get a shirt that another man wore,

Tell me how can a poor man stand such times and live.

 

Most all preachers preach for gold and not for souls, that's what keeps a poor man in a hole.
We can hardly get our breath, taxed and schooled and preached to death, 

Tell me how can a poor man stand such times and live.

[chocboss]

I think people should read up with some of the Dr and Proffessors that give a more accurate reading on all this <deleted>, I for one don't believe in all what's said about it also, only thing I would say is your body has a immune system that will kick in when need be, problem solved

[RichardColeman]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

Foreign arrivals plunged 66% in the first six months of the year, to 6.69 million.

The next 6 will be fun with just the Thai returnees counted as tourists 

[chilli42]

19 hours ago, ukrules said:

When a reliable vaccine is available to all it's still going to take a long time to manufacture enough doses to make a dent. This time will be measured in years, not months.

It’s true that the vaccine, if one is found, will take time to validate, produce and administer.  Two other things are also true; you can run but you can’t hide from the virus and people and economies can not wait this out.

[vermin on arrival]

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

No one is going to want to take a tourist trip only to face 2 week quarantine when they come home.

There are many long stay visitors ( I was one. but I was done here before this started unfortunately I missed my possibility to get back to Taiwan by 2 hours), people who come for 4 to 6 months a year who would be happy to get a couple of covid tests on either side and do a 14 day quarantine to come here. Make things easier for them to come and they will. Maybe make home quarantine an option for those who have them, strictly enforced by government workers with large penalties for breaking it. Have them strongly monitored by health care workers who are paid by the government (multiple visits per day to check on them ,etc). This will give jobs to many of the millions of unemployed Thais.

[Burma Bill]

[zaZa9]

3 hours ago, natway09 said:

To be fair, the Government is very well aware of the need to let people in & desperate to find a way 

to help the economy.

The goal posts keep moving on them as even NZ & Australia (both islands) have found out.

It is at present a daily monitoring situation & they have done very well to keep infection rates as low as they have.

To rubbish their efforts & monitoring is just "Thai bagging"

The UK tried the herd mentality immunity idea & failed badly.

Just to open the borders & rock & roll at this time could in the long run end up being worse.

I feel pretty safe here & applaud their ongoing efforts for keeping me that way even though am 

hurting financially very badly. Maybe this time next year there will be light at the end of the tunnel

Exactly !

The Captains of Industry must be watching their Corporations bleed money and potential profits .

BUT , Ive yet to see even one major Corporation Head  speak out , let alone repeat  any of this Conspiracy Theory  rubbish foist upon us by arm chair virologists and  2 bob media  "experts" that continue to bang on and on  ,.

We all know the Corporates pretty much control the world now and are against Government intervention in world trade.

Explain me why they are now suddenly pro Government interventions and  health initiatives , and why they want to see their profits  dramatically slashed and potential consumer spending dry up?

 

If youre going to make up stories - at least think them through...

 

( Sorry , I meant to reply to an earlier post , not yours here...)

Edited August 7, 2020 by zaZa9

[Pikasso]

20 hours ago, ukrules said:

When a reliable vaccine is available to all it's still going to take a long time to manufacture enough doses to make a dent. This time will be measured in years, not months.

I remember when you had to have a smallpox vaccination certificate stapled in your passport!

No cert, no entry into most countries 

Those were the days my friend.... thank you Wuhan!

[paulikens]

that wasnt what the bangkok post was saying yesterday. i think thai visa is like the british media now just wanna be all doom and gloom, cmon thai visa lets have something positive.

[Mung]

Quick Thailand, make a vaccine just like you cured HIV. Then tourism can be revived here 

[DrTuner]

12 hours ago, AgentSmith said:

First test results from Germany showed that recovered covid-19 patients saw their amount of antibodies drop quickly in a few months which suggests people don't naturally get immune from infection.

Actually it doesn't. It shows the B-cells stopped producing antibodies. It's unknown if the T and B-cells then learned to recognize the pathogen and produce antibodies on demand. More research is needed there. People don't always have antibodies floating around "just in case". They are produced by the immunity system on demand and wane when there's no use for them.

Edited August 7, 2020 by DrTuner

[vermin on arrival]

2 minutes ago, paulikens said:

that wasnt what the bangkok post was saying yesterday. i think thai visa is like the british media now just wanna be all doom and gloom, cmon thai visa lets have something positive.

No the thai government keeps going back and forth and different agencies say different things based on their self interest. I think also they are afraid of saying to people that things are done for a very long while because the people who are getting crushed will probably go to the streets with pitchforks and torches. They need to keep giving hope and then saying....oh no we can't do it right now because of this reason...maybe next month. Bait and switch. Also, they would need to come up with some new and creative policies that they are not intellectually capable of doing or are afraid of doing to address the long term problem of a number of years that this looks like it will be and kicking the can down the road to see if some miracle comes out and bails their butts out.

[0815]

8 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Curious to know more...are you retired or working and/or raising a family or just doing business. For me, a retired person, my interaction with the Thai state bureaucracy is deminimus and consists of two trips to immigration per year for a total of 30 minutes to renew my a "retirement" visa and prove my bank funds after 90 days (90 day reports are done online) and a trip to the Land Transportation Office every 5 years to renew my drivers license. The annual car registrations are done by a service just down from my house for 100 baht. I don't think living as an expatriate gets much easier than this.

It's only the addiction of many retirees to complain about something day by day.
What burocracy do they have to fight with? 90 day reports doing online shouldn't be a problem as they seem to be used to type on a smartphone or computer. ???? 
If not smart enough go to the IO...

[DrTuner]

8 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Curious to know more...are you retired or working and/or raising a family or just doing business. For me, a retired person, my interaction with the Thai state bureaucracy is deminimus and consists of two trips to immigration per year for a total of 30 minutes to renew my a "retirement" visa and prove my bank funds after 90 days (90 day reports are done online) and a trip to the Land Transportation Office every 5 years to renew my drivers license. The annual car registrations are done by a service just down from my house for 100 baht. I don't think living as an expatriate gets much easier than this.

I'm an investor, married with Thai wife & kids, otherwise retired. I did a gig as an official though and adopted my stepkids (Which as far as paperwork goes, was the record for me, 4" folder full of A4 copies) and did quite a few marriage extensions, as well as numerous KYC/AML rounds for various investment deals. Anything concerning Thailand is always 10x the bureaucracy, even for small things. I'm aware the retirement extensions are easier, but I'm also under 50.

 

And even if I had a PR, still no land ownership, no working without permit, no company ownership without BOI, basically minimal rights. Compare that to the rights my wife would get when we'd move to EU and it's clear in which direction we are now headed. 

[Shocked farang]

8 hours ago, Mops59 said:

Thailand needs tourism and many tourist are long stay condo owners. They will love to come back. And quaraintine won't be a problem to them. So please start with European long stay condo owners. Most of them were in Thailand when Covid started.

Unfortunately they have been downgraded from condo owners to dirty farang, I think that the condo market will have quite a number of condos for sale soon...

[DrTuner]

6 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

You want PR, apply for it.

Three years of working in a Thai company to get tax receipts, even if married or investing. That's a sacrifice I'm not willing to do. I appreciate the remnants of my mental sanity too much.

[DrTuner]

3 hours ago, Airalee said:

Same here.  I’d even go as far as to pay ฿1,000,000 for some sort of non-revocable lifetime PR status...maybe even a bit more if it includes health insurance until death.

Investment is only 10M baht, which is very reasonable, but you'll hit the wall with the three year tax return requirement.

Edited August 7, 2020 by DrTuner

[SunsetT]

6 hours ago, Percy P said:

UK has a very high rate of CV cases and deaths.If you follow Nigel Farang's highlights of  illegal immigrants crossing into the UK by boat and the Government doing nothing about it you can see why. Thailand's a safe heaven.

Blame everything on immigrants....Even CV!  ..................Far Right S h i t e!!!

[hashmodha]

21 hours ago, ukrules said:

When a reliable vaccine is available to all it's still going to take a long time to manufacture enough doses to make a dent. This time will be measured in years, not months.

I agree here,the affluent countries will buy all the vaccines way before Thailand and we will see how our Thaliand finds cash to pay for it and with free National health system here,who will be charged and can they afford it? Any news how much it might cost?

[VBF]

11 hours ago, thaitero said:

Winter is coming in near future..

Thailand should concentrate those who want to spend 3-6 months extended holidays..

Those may be o..k to stay 2 weeks quarantine in order to spend winter in safe country..

That's what I normally do and yes, i'd like to think the Thai authorities would consider that. 

However...... ????

[VBF]

15 hours ago, ukrules said:

Yeah, I'll definitely wait a bit before getting a shot, maybe a few years.

 

Trouble is, that at SOME stage, (especially if WHO approves a particular vaccine) various Immigration authorities MIGHT say "No vaccination, no entry".

I don't just mean Thailand either.

Then comes the decision...to get vaccinated and travel, or not get vaccinated and stay home (or wherever you are at the time) forever.

 

This of course is when the Conspiracy Theorists and anti vaxxers may well rise up en masse and say "we told you so!"

 

I'm choosing my words and emphases carefully, because at this stage, this is obviously merely conjecture  but I don't see it as beyond the realms of possibility.

Edited August 7, 2020 by VBF

[DogNo1]

The news about vaccines and treatments is not terribly positive.  One vaccine being trialed now causes bad side effects in people who get large doses of it and small doses are not sufficiently effective.  In a video of four experts from UCSF Medical school, it was noted that filtration systems on airplanes are not very effective because the filtered air comes from above and the emanations from people's bodies rise so any infected air is pushed sideways.  I can link the video in anybody is interested.

[Anna Rak]

The U.K. government has removed quarantine restrictions for people arriving from Malaysia and Brunei, this will be reciprocal and I do know from many previous trips that Malaysia in particular has some beautiful beaches, so good bye Thailand's tourism industry, you have missed the boat.

[ukrules]

54 minutes ago, hashmodha said:

I agree here,the affluent countries will buy all the vaccines way before Thailand and we will see how our Thaliand finds cash to pay for it and with free National health system here,who will be charged and can they afford it? Any news how much it might cost?

I wouldn't complain about that too much, the affluent countries as you put it are investing billions into making vaccines, some of them might not work at all but they already spent the money regardless.

[vermin on arrival]

40 minutes ago, Anna Rak said:

The U.K. government has removed quarantine restrictions for people arriving from Malaysia and Brunei, this will be reciprocal and I do know from many previous trips that Malaysia in particular has some beautiful beaches, so good bye Thailand's tourism industry, you have missed the boat.

Link please. I am skeptical of Malaysia allowing this to a country with as many infections as the UK has had. Is it for all travelers? I searched and found nothing on Malaysia allowing tourists from the UK with no quarantine.

 

 I found this : https://www.thestar.com.my/news/focus/2020/08/02/bubbling-with-hope-for-malaysia

 

“Our next strategy is stimulating cross-border tourism, where we welcome international arrivals from short-haul markets like Asean countries through ‘travel bubbles’, ” he tells Sunday Star. and...

 

“We are also encouraged by the recent agreement between Malaysia and Singapore to implement the Reciprocal Green Lane and Periodic Commuting Arrangement, ” Musa says.

With the agreement, cross-border travel between Malaysia and Singapore on the Causeway will be allowed from Aug 17, but only for official, business and work purposes.

Malaysia has plenty to do while waiting for the borders to open up for other countries, though."

 

So looks very limited, only for neighbors and right now restricted to business travel with Singapore. Anything more than that seems for in the future.

 

I do see that the UK has put them on the green list, but see no evidence that it is reciprocal.

Edited August 7, 2020 by vermin on arrival

[ukrules]

43 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

One vaccine being trialed now causes bad side effects in people who get large doses of it and small doses are not sufficiently effective.

I'd like to get things into perspective here.

 

If the side effect is worse than the illness and the vaccine kills and maims many people which is possible then it should not proceed but I have a feeling what you call a 'bad side effect' is in fact going to turn out to be something insignificant. I have heard of no evidence of bad side effects. Sore arm doesn't qualify.

 

An example of a bad side effect would be permanent brain damage in 0.0005% of recipients, that would be 1  in 200,000 people and wouldn't show up until much later - this is the kind of thing they will be on the look out for.

 

It happened before, 60 million children were vaccinated back in 2009 and some side effects were narcolepsy (suddenly falling asleep without warning) but this mostly passed in many of them, however there were perhaps 600-1000 of them who were left with severe permanent issues. There was a settlement involving large sums of money.

 

Based on everything I've heard there are some 'annoying' mild side effects and the vaccine appears to be working just fine creating antibodies and T cells. Where there's antibodies there are B cells so we also know that it created memory B cells as well.

Edited August 7, 2020 by ukrules

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, rwill said:

The Serum Institute of India is already starting to mass produce a couple of the Covid-19 vaccines so they will be available as soon as approved.

That's great, I didn't realise it was so quick and easy to produce 16 billion doses assuming everyone needs it twice which based on what I've read is the current protocol.

 

If it turns out to be short lasting protection (6 months instead of 1 decade) which is possible although in my opinion unlikely then they're going to need to repeat that every 6 months for as long as this thing is circulating in order to completely eradicate it.

 

If on the optimistic side a vaccination is effective for 2-3 years and they vaccinate everyone inside 2 years (a huge task) then it could be completely gone within 2 to 3 years.