Be Careful going back to Australia

[theonetrueaussie]

Australian Government are currently letting Australian's go back to Australia but it's nearly impossible to leave again. You need permission from the government to leave and 3/4 of all applications are currently being denied.....

[ezzra]

not entirely true, if you can prove that you're a resident of a foreign country you will be permitted to leave without border force approval of fit to fly certificate...

 

https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia#toc-2

[NanLaew]

An Australian friend of mine is in the queue to return home since they have daily intake quotas at the international airports. He needs to fly to Sydney and has been bumped from two repatriation flights already due to that airport's 300/day quota being full.

 

The OP's comment that most of the requests by Australian residents for permission to depart Australia are being either denied or are still pending is true. If they want to keep their pension and healthcare entitlements, I reckon not a lot of Aussies will want to admit that they reside somewhere else on the planet.

[theonetrueaussie]

41 minutes ago, ezzra said:

not entirely true, if you can prove that you're a resident of a foreign country you will be permitted to leave without border force approval of fit to fly certificate...

 

https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia#toc-2

yes that is true however the definition of "resident of a foreign country" is up to border force...I have 2 friends one with a thai work permit and another who works in the uk and both got denied....

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

The OP's comment that most of the requests by Australian residents for permission to depart Australia are being either denied or are still pending is true. If they want to keep their pension and healthcare entitlements, I reckon not a lot of Aussies will want to admit that they reside somewhere else on the planet.

but by the same token you't lie or mislead centerlink people with false information, if you get caught, you might be in a spot of bother regaining your pension entitlements...

[Sujo]

8 minutes ago, ezzra said:

but by the same token you't lie or mislead centerlink people with false information, if you get caught, you might be in a spot of bother regaining your pension entitlements...

The way centrelink has treated people with robodebt i have absolutely no issue with anyone trying to get away with being a bit dodgy to get payment from them.

[Grumpy one]

Sounds like 1788 all over again

You go to Australia from England and stay there  

[VocalNeal]

Let us not forget that prior to Australia, British convicts were shipped to the new world colonies. 

[TigerandDog]

22 hours ago, NanLaew said:

The OP's comment that most of the requests by Australian residents for permission to depart Australia are being either denied or are still pending is true. If they want to keep their pension and healthcare entitlements, I reckon not a lot of Aussies will want to admit that they reside somewhere else on the planet.

Have to disagree in part with regards to comments on pension. I've been living full time here in Thailand since late 2014 ( became eligible for aged pension in mid 2015 ) and receive my pension every 4 weeks directly to my Thai bank account. Apart from having to be in Australia to apply for the pension ( had to be in person at centrelink around 3 months prior to reaching pension eligibility age) and also in Australia when I turned 65 and when the first pension payment was made to my Aussie bank account & predominantly for 2 years prior to becoming eligible for the pension, payments have been to my Thai bank account ever since. Whilst the pension is not paid 100%, the base pension is fully paid and the pension supplement is reduced to the base level. Current rate is AUD$1721.20 per 4 weeks base pension & AUD$48.40 per 4 weeks base supplement ( single rates ). As long as working life residency is met, the pension is portable. Apart from the reduction in the base supplement, the only other negative impact is that the health care card entitlement is also lost. Most aussies are under the impression that they must return to oz every 6 months to retain their pension. This is not the case for those living outside Oz on a long term or permanent basis. See attached link   https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/topics/payment-schedule-and-rates-people-outside-australia/29791

[marcho]

15 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Have to disagree in part with regards to comments on pension. I've been living full time here in Thailand since late 2014 ( became eligible for aged pension in mid 2015 ) and receive my pension every 4 weeks directly to my Thai bank account. Apart from having to be in Australia to apply for the pension ( had to be in person at centrelink around 3 months prior to reaching pension eligibility age) and also in Australia when I turned 65 and when the first pension payment was made to my Aussie bank account & predominantly for 2 years prior to becoming eligible for the pension, payments have been to my Thai bank account ever since. Whilst the pension is not paid 100%, the base pension is fully paid and the pension supplement is reduced to the base level. Current rate is AUD$1721.20 per 4 weeks base pension & AUD$48.40 per 4 weeks base supplement ( single rates ). As long as working life residency is met, the pension is portable. Apart from the reduction in the base supplement, the only other negative impact is that the health care card entitlement is also lost. Most aussies are under the impression that they must return to oz every 6 months to retain their pension. This is not the case for those living outside Oz on a long term or permanent basis. See attached link   https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/topics/payment-schedule-and-rates-people-outside-australia/29791

Very true, I am the same as you. 

[Peterw42]

22 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Have to disagree in part with regards to comments on pension. I've been living full time here in Thailand since late 2014 ( became eligible for aged pension in mid 2015 ) and receive my pension every 4 weeks directly to my Thai bank account. Apart from having to be in Australia to apply for the pension ( had to be in person at centrelink around 3 months prior to reaching pension eligibility age) and also in Australia when I turned 65 and when the first pension payment was made to my Aussie bank account & predominantly for 2 years prior to becoming eligible for the pension, payments have been to my Thai bank account ever since. Whilst the pension is not paid 100%, the base pension is fully paid and the pension supplement is reduced to the base level. Current rate is AUD$1721.20 per 4 weeks base pension & AUD$48.40 per 4 weeks base supplement ( single rates ). As long as working life residency is met, the pension is portable. Apart from the reduction in the base supplement, the only other negative impact is that the health care card entitlement is also lost. Most aussies are under the impression that they must return to oz every 6 months to retain their pension. This is not the case for those living outside Oz on a long term or permanent basis. See attached link   https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/topics/payment-schedule-and-rates-people-outside-australia/29791

Yes, you are correct but you are not claiming residency/citizenship of thailand, therefore you can still be paid pension, keep the tax free threshold etc.

The problem at the moment is, to leave Australia, you need to declare/show residency/citizenship of the country you want to go to. Once you do that your pension and tax status can change.

Living outside Australia is different to being a resident (in the official context) of another country.

 

[ellathai]

1 hour ago, TigerandDog said:

Have to disagree in part with regards to comments on pension. I've been living full time here in Thailand since late 2014 ( became eligible for aged pension in mid 2015 ) and receive my pension every 4 weeks directly to my Thai bank account. Apart from having to be in Australia to apply for the pension ( had to be in person at centrelink around 3 months prior to reaching pension eligibility age) and also in Australia when I turned 65 and when the first pension payment was made to my Aussie bank account & predominantly for 2 years prior to becoming eligible for the pension, payments have been to my Thai bank account ever since. Whilst the pension is not paid 100%, the base pension is fully paid and the pension supplement is reduced to the base level. Current rate is AUD$1721.20 per 4 weeks base pension & AUD$48.40 per 4 weeks base supplement ( single rates ). As long as working life residency is met, the pension is portable. Apart from the reduction in the base supplement, the only other negative impact is that the health care card entitlement is also lost. Most aussies are under the impression that they must return to oz every 6 months to retain their pension. This is not the case for those living outside Oz on a long term or permanent basis. See attached link   https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/topics/payment-schedule-and-rates-people-outside-australia/29791

You have to spend two years in Australia now before you can take the pension outside of Australia.

If you go on holiday outside of Australia in that 2 years you will not get the pension until you return.

If some little turd in centrelink deems you have been outside of Australia too often in that two years you have to start again.

 

That was the explanation l was given over the phone.

God bless Australia. :( 

Edited August 17, 2020 by ellathai

[UbonEagle]

More nanny state politics...on ABC recently they were discussing the questionable legality of the policy.

Let people go if they wish to, should have to sign a waiver that govt holds no responsibility for getting you home...

 

[Pedrogaz]

Why would your own government want to make it hard for you to fly, if you have a bona fide residence abroad. If I were them I would make it very difficult for you to go back to OZ after you left.

[Nemises]

Editorial from today's AU (NewsCorp) newspapers:

 

 

 

Banning Aussies from travelling is looking absurd and wrong as world opens back up

 

Australia needs a coronavirus exit strategy — literally.

One of the most remarkable things about this whole coronavirus pandemic has been how one of the most extroverted nations in the world became, virtually overnight, a fortress.

Not only are foreign visitors (and returning Australians) forced to spend 14 days in dreary hotel quarantine at their own expense

— reasonable, perhaps — but we Australians also have to apply, like naughty students looking for a hall pass, to leave the country.

Even if we are planning on staying away for months, or years, or hold a second passport of another nation.

It’s a bit like trying to get papers to get out of town in the movie Casablanca, except that everyone would have to scan a QR code to enter Rick’s Cafe Americain, and singing La Marseillaise would be banned because it might spread viral droplets.

(And no, I’m not comparing Australia to the collaborationist Vichy regime, but rather pointing out the absurdity of having to apply to leave your own country, and risking a 75 per cent chance of rejection if you do).

But at some point we are going to have to get back to some degree of normal, with or without a vaccine.

And that will mean being allowed to get back on a plane and go not just to Perth or Port Douglas, but LA or London or any place else that will have us. Which is an increasing number of countries, if only we were allowed to go.

But, I hear you saying, there’s a pandemic on, haven’t you heard? And we all need to do our part to stop the spread.

Yes, sure, except, of course, the higher education sector.

In a few weeks, 300 foreign students from Asia will be flown in via Singapore to Adelaide to test how universities might begin to cover the $3bn in losses they are expected to suffer for allowing themselves to become so dependent on overseas students in the first place.

It’s a sort of pragmatic authoritarianism that demands ordinary Australians give up their rights for the greater good (“keeping us safe”) and then bends the rules for others when there’s a quid to be made.

All this while countless Australians remain stranded overseas, in many cases paying well over the odds for business class tickets to improve their chances of getting on a flight.

And that’s before we talk about the absurdity of many of the state border restrictions, which have resulted in countless petty, bureaucratic cruelties.

The NT has decided to shut up shop for 18 months, while Queensland’s premier said Monday she would not relax borders until there was zero community transmission in NSW or Victoria. Seriously.

Yet in the face of all this Scott Morrison seems to be loathe to do anything about it.

Particularly with his polls sky high, why risk a fight with the states, or cop the panicky criticism he would receive from the “lockdown until elimination” camp for reasserting Australians’ freedom to travel?

But here it’s worth noting what epidemiologist Donald Henderson had to say on the subject.

Henderson, who died in 2016, is probably best known for essentially ridding the world of smallpox which makes him about as good an authority you can get on this sort of thing.

In 2006, at the age of 78, Henderson swung into action when he heard about a program initiated by the George W. Bush administration which put together computer modellers with public health officials to work out how to lock down and quarantine society in the event of a future deadly influenza or SARS-like pandemic.

Henderson’s work was resurrected recently by Edward Stringham at the American Institute for Economic Research, who points out the doctor spent his life “devoted to implementing the great discovery of modern virus theory — that we need not flee but rather build immunity through science, either by natural immunities or via vaccines”.

“If particular measures are applied for many weeks or months, the longterm or cumulative second and third order effects could be devastating socially and economically,” Henderson wrote, before concluding, “experience has shown that communities faced with epidemics or other adverse events respond best when the normal social functioning of the community is least disrupted”. Ain’t that the truth.

Travel, both inbound and out, is a huge part of the Australian identity, and represents a massive benefit to the nation in terms of tourism and commerce.

Yet the disruption imposed on us by the reaction to the coronavirus has created a “new normal” that is anything but.

It’s time our leaders started to explain what the end game is here, particularly if there is never a vaccine. Australia’s a wonderful place, but we can’t stay trapped here — not just in our own country, but our own state — forever.

[G Rex]

I applied for ‘permission’ to leave last 10pm last Tuesday. I stated that I have a residence in Thailand but am stuck in Oz with my Thai partner. I said I don’t want to live here anymore. Got approval by 10am next day!   They can’t wait to get rid of me!  Not that difficult...

 

 

[UncleMhee]

1 hour ago, G Rex said:

I applied for ‘permission’ to leave last 10pm last Tuesday. I stated that I have a residence in Thailand but am stuck in Oz with my Thai partner. I said I don’t want to live here anymore. Got approval by 10am next day!   They can’t wait to get rid of me!  Not that difficult...

Well done.......If on the pension though, I do hope that all of your ducks are lined up.

[Dazinoz]

On 8/17/2020 at 11:02 AM, ellathai said:

You have to spend two years in Australia now before you can take the pension outside of Australia.

If you go on holiday outside of Australia in that 2 years you will not get the pension until you return.

If some little turd in centrelink deems you have been outside of Australia too often in that two years you have to start again.

 

That was the explanation l was given over the phone.

God bless Australia. :( 

I have been living in Thailand since 2013. Last August I went back to Oz for a visit. I am due the OAP in May 2022 when I turn 66 1/2. I visited Centrelink to try dispel rumours I had heard. The lady could not help me and gave me the number to the international services section of CL.

 

I phoned them and the guy stated that I had to be back in Australia 2 years before I could actually claim the pension. I said I knew about the 2 year portability rule and he said again I needed to be living back there 2 years BEFORE.

 

Recently talking to a friend here who confirmed that they are applying that (unwritten ??) rule as his friend was told the same and application denied. He appealed twice and denied both times. He then went to the Ombudsman and he overturned the rulings and was back paid from eligibility date.

 

So interesting and frustrating times ahead for me.

[Laza 45]

On 8/16/2020 at 10:52 AM, NanLaew said:

If they want to keep their pension and healthcare entitlements, I reckon not a lot of Aussies will want to admit that they reside somewhere else on the planet.

..aged pension is portable.. once you have it you can live wherever you like.  Disability pension is different .. very strict rules for that one.  Centerlink is kept informed via immigration they always know when you leave.. or arrive back in Australia.. no hiding from that.  On the other hand.. Medicare is not linked to immigration.. because of privacy laws regarding medical information.. they do not know where you are.  But.. if they find out you are out of the country for an extend time and you lose residency.. you loose your Medicare cover.. not easy to get back either.. Australia does have reciprocal agreements with some countries for medical insurance.. I know Italy is one... Thailand is not.. 

[Dazinoz]

11 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

..aged pension is portable.. once you have it you can live wherever you like.  Disability pension is different .. very strict rules for that one.  Centerlink is kept informed via immigration they always know when you leave.. or arrive back in Australia.. no hiding from that.  On the other hand.. Medicare is not linked to immigration.. because of privacy laws regarding medical information.. they do not know where you are.  But.. if they find out you are out of the country for an extend time and you lose residency.. you loose your Medicare cover.. not easy to get back either.. Australia does have reciprocal agreements with some countries for medical insurance.. I know Italy is one... Thailand is not.. 

Not totally true as you now must have received it for 2 years IN Australia to allow it to be portable.

[madmen]

I'm in Oz now and have unlimited portability disability pension. They told me over the phone in Thailand that I'm no longer a resident of Australia and they will send pension monthly and that was fine by me although I was still able to enter hospital for 4 days using Medicare 

 

The problem is the government and centrelink have different versions of what makes a resident

[Laza 45]

4 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Not totally true as you now must have received it for 2 years IN Australia to allow it to be portable.

... I did say.. once you have it..  It has been a problem for several friends of mine who lived here for years before retirement age .. they had to go back and live in Australia for the 2 years to get it... Once they get it they are free to live anywhere.. 

 

[Dazinoz]

8 minutes ago, madmen said:

I'm in Oz now and have unlimited portability disability pension. They told me over the phone in Thailand that I'm no longer a resident of Australia and they will send pension monthly and that was fine by me although I was still able to enter hospital for 4 days using Medicare 

 

The problem is the government and centrelink have different versions of what makes a resident

I  have lost my Medicare and have to re-apply when I go back. I asked why basically I was told I wasn't a resident of Australia. I said I am not a resident of Thailand either as I am only a visitor.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Dazinoz

[Dazinoz]

1 minute ago, Laza 45 said:

... I did say.. once you have it..  It has been a problem for several friends of mine who lived here for years before retirement age .. they had to go back and live in Australia for the 2 years to get it... Once they get it they are free to live anywhere.. 

 

This where I get conflicting stories. My accountant and many people on the Aussie Pensioner forums say that I am entitled to it at 66 1/2 even if I went back to Australia that week. Then If i wanted to make it portable I need to stay 2 years in Oz. When I go back I won't be coming back to Thailand.

 

Others, like yourself are saying I have to be back in Oz 2 years before I can receive it.

[madmen]

5 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

I  have lost my Medicare and have to reapply when I go back. I asked why basically I was told I want a resident of Australia. I said I am not a resident of Thailand either as I am only a visitor.

If you were out more than 5 years this it true so after 4 years one should head back for a visit 

[Dazinoz]

Just now, madmen said:

If you were out more than 5 years this it true so after 4 years one should head back for a visit 

I had actually been back for visits but never visited the doctors in that time. I found out after a doctors visit who did not bulk bill so went to Medicare head office in Brissy. They paid that claim but then informed me I was then out of the system.

[Laza 45]

39 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

This where I get conflicting stories. My accountant and many people on the Aussie Pensioner forums say that I am entitled to it at 66 1/2 even if I went back to Australia that week. Then If i wanted to make it portable I need to stay 2 years in Oz. When I go back I won't be coming back to Thailand.

 

Others, like yourself are saying I have to be back in Oz 2 years before I can receive it.

My understanding is that it is 2 years back before you get it..  maybe my information is outdated.  Centerlink has an international desk that I have used several times.. easier to get through than the regular number and the people there are used to international inquiries.  I suggest that you give them a call and then you will be sure that you have the right information.  The number is:   Centerlink International   +61 36222 3455 ...call early Australia time to avoid long a long wait.. they open 8:30 AM I believe. I just called the number on Skype.. not open now of course but it is the right number.  Good luck..   Also.. it depends how long you have been out of Australia.. if you are still considered 'resident'  you may not have to wait.. give them a call  ????

[UncleMhee]

Version 1.271 - Released 10 August 2020

7.1.4 Requirements for former residents of Australia receiving a portable pension

Summary

A person must satisfy the SSAct definition of Australian resident in order to lodge a proper claim for a pension. Generally, this means they must be residing in Australia when they lodge their claim.

A claim for pension can be lodged by a former resident who has resumed residence in Australia only if, on the evidence available, there is a clear intention to remain permanently in Australia. A person who intends to return to Australia for a defined period only (e.g. 2 years) would not be an 'Australian resident' as per SSAct subsection 7(2).

Specific portability rules apply when a person who was formerly an Australian resident returns to Australia and becomes an Australian resident again and is successful in claiming Age or DSP.

Portability for former residents - Age, DSP

Since 20 September 2000, a former resident who returns to Australia and is granted Age or DSP, or who transfers to Age under SS(Admin)Act section 12, cannot take that pension outside Australia if they leave within 2 years of having resumed residence in Australia. The purpose of this legislation is to discourage people from travelling to Australia just to get an Australian pension to take back overseas.

The 2-year period includes, as separate full days, the day on which the recipient returns to Australia to resume Australian residence and the day on which they leave again.

There is no discretionary power to allow portability of Age or DSP during the 2-year period (note, some exceptions to the 2-year rule apply - see below).

Payment may be suspended for short overseas absences during the 2-year period and does not have to be reclaimed on return to Australia. A short absence from Australia (as long as the person is still classed as an Australian resident) will not impact on the end date of the 2-year period (i.e. the absence still counts towards the person's 2-year period).

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/4

 

[elliss]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:30 PM, VocalNeal said:

Let us not forget that prior to Australia, British convicts were shipped to the new world colonies. 

 

     Seems they had two choices .

Hang or be shipped too the Colonies ...

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by elliss

[AussieBob18]

On 8/18/2020 at 7:10 PM, Dazinoz said:

This where I get conflicting stories. My accountant and many people on the Aussie Pensioner forums say that I am entitled to it at 66 1/2 even if I went back to Australia that week. Then If i wanted to make it portable I need to stay 2 years in Oz. When I go back I won't be coming back to Thailand.

Others, like yourself are saying I have to be back in Oz 2 years before I can receive it.

Once you are at the age to receive pension and are eligible (eg. lived in Aust in the past for 10+ years) then if you move back to Australia you will immediatly get the pension. But one of the eligibility issues is that you have moved back permanently and intend to stay forever - you must state and show that.

 

Then after 2 years you can apply for portability to move to another country. However, if there is any suspicion that you always intended to return and then leave immediately after 2 years, they can deny portability. Example: If you have and maintain a Thai family in Thailand while living in Aust on the pension, they can deny portability - and many other reasons that they will not tell you until later. It is not automatic as some people have stated.

 

They introduced the '2 year rule' to stop people coming back and leaving again immediately they got the pension approved.  Now they are cracking down on all the Expats in places like Thailand that come back and 'serve out' the 2 years waiting period - who always had the intent to leave immediately they serve the 2 years out.

 

Things are getting harder and harder, and in the years ahead after Covid blowing the Budget, there will be more and more restrictions on all payments from CLink. Expats living overseas on the pension are an easy target, and most people in Aust agree with taking it away from us. Be careful and plan carefully.