1 hour ago, Misterwhisper said:

It does not matter whether Thailand "needs" submarines or not.

 

The only point of consideration is that the boys WANT them; hence they'll treat themselves. And public opinion has no bearing on that decision whatsoever. Period.

Misterwhisper you are very correct.  Years ago when personal computers were first out they were not very useful but people flocked to buy them.  The Wall Street Journal in the USA ran an article entitled a Want In Search Of A Need.  That is what the submarines are.  They are toys that the military wants to show their power but they are useless certainly as a military deterrent.  They buy them from the Chinese, you think there is not tracking built into them?   Also even if there is no tracking, who are you going to fend off?  India, China, Burma?  Heck 3 submarines against a super power would not last one hour. 

 

4 hours ago, yellowboat said:

According to Wikipedia, the Japanese subs did very little during the war.

 

I think in nearly 80 years , they may have improved a tad..........................

1 hour ago, rvaviator said:

I like to understand how they will be useful ?  

 

What practical operational capability will they have ?

 

I would have thought if anything they need fast surface going ships to allow effective control for fishing vessels, smugglers etc ....

 

Or aircraft / drones with radar capability for monitoring surface and air traffic.

 

I just can not see how they can have a practical use.  Do they think they are going to sink the next Belgrano  for when 'country X' will invade Thailand ?

 

If the argument is to have some cool toys to play with ... That argument I can understand.     

For the navy to continue celebrating Submarine Day, they really need at least one in the fleet.

Just like the aircraft carrier.

These2 items give Thailand greater bragging rights over Laos or Nepal 

you buy weapons against a known threat, or a strategic threat that you see in the future, say within 30 years.  So where is the threat to Thailand?  There isn't one in the Indian Ocean/Andaman sea direction, nor in the south of the Gulf. so where is it?  Cambodia, no, Vietnam, no. China, maybe, but a few old subs won't impact that threat if it ever materialists.  So it isn't anywhere, therefore what ever they buy in terms of strategic weapons ( as opposed to tactical weapons such as gunboats , coastal craft and Army short range weapons. ) what is left are just toys for the boys. No real military thought has gone into this and of course, they know that just as well as everyone else does.  

From a navy man myself, the Gulf would make a sub miss or sub sunk easy as pie.

Puddle pirates supreme.

3 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

The Gulf of Siam isn't deep enough to hide submarines so the second they leave the docks they can be tracked leaving them totally ineffective. 

About the same average depth as the Persian gulf. Obviously a giant us sub won't do but the the smaller midget subs (the Iranians are operating quite a few of them) can be an effective deterrent in shallow waters. 

Wikipedia says that Thailand has only one submarine and it's an old chinese <deleted>.

So - yes, Thailand does need a modern submarine for training and research purposes.

The real question is how cool and expensive it should be.

If Thailand can, first, be able to get electricity safe and running everyday without cut (and same with water), everywhere in Thailand, it would be a good first step before to talk about submarines or any other dream.

Hmmm, not for me to say as that is a decision for a Thai citizens. I have my own inflated military budget to vote against come November (ha! If my ballot is not declared invalid as it is coming to the USA from a foreign country).

1 minute ago, fdsa said:

Wikipedia says that Thailand has only one submarine and it's an old chinese <deleted>.

So - yes, Thailand does need a modern submarine for training and research purposes.

The real question is how cool and expensive it should be.

Who will goes inside ? Who will make the job to maintain everything to work ?

Look at the reality, open your eyes, submarines people should know a lot of things and should be very serious.

Actually in Thailand, electric cut every time when rain fall or wind weather. Sometimes, some legs fall... and they want to have submarines ? Really ?

It is the new joke post of the day...

Thailand keeps buying stuff from China with no way to pay it off and eventually China will own Thailand. Or at the very least control it. Very stupid short sighted by Thai government in my opinion.

Think about this logically. What the Thai Navy really needs are fast effective littoral watercraft be they boats or ships. Proven to be extremely effective for drug/smuggling/border crossing interdiction and can be used for a variety of combat missions in shallow waters such as the gulf. Also very effective on the inshore areas of the Andaman Sea. The U. S. Navy has a variety of these craft that could probably be sold for a fraction of the sub cost with none of the attendant sacrifice of sovereignty that the Chinese deal represents.

5 hours ago, dbrenn said:

Other countries' navies have them, so why not Thailand's? 

Because other countries have a use for them, can afford to purchase and maintain them and didn't purchased them as play-things for the Navy chiefs. 

At least they will be appreciated by the children once a year on Childrens Day, assuming they are still afloat. 

One of our TV German member after having been invited for a short trip during one of the inauguration missions ...

 

Clearly seen here helping out in the engine room  (no need for a mask - good social distance)

5 hours ago, dbrenn said:

Other countries' navies have them, so why not Thailand's? 

Because it’s not DEEP enough Einstein 

5 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

The Gulf of Siam isn't deep enough to hide submarines so the second they leave the docks they can be tracked leaving them totally ineffective. 

Yes and add the fact theyre old outdated Chinese models .Why buy old outdated subs ? 

46 minutes ago, apetryxx said:

Think about this logically. What the Thai Navy really needs are fast effective littoral watercraft be they boats or ships. Proven to be extremely effective for drug/smuggling/border crossing interdiction and can be used for a variety of combat missions in shallow waters such as the gulf. Also very effective on the inshore areas of the Andaman Sea. The U. S. Navy has a variety of these craft that could probably be sold for a fraction of the sub cost with none of the attendant sacrifice of sovereignty that the Chinese deal represents.

Patrol Boats on Mekong River 

5 minutes ago, Ireland32 said:

Because it’s not DEEP enough Einstein 

Could you tell us how deep the water needs to be for submarines? You are obviously knowledgeable about such facts?

Having worked extensively in the GOT I do know the water depths and was of the opinion that the water depth was more than adequate.

Do educate us. ???? 

The question should imo be: "Does Thailand need to purchase new subs at the moment?" 

Quote

Does Thailand need Submarines?

A clear YES.

The US, the Chinese, the Russians - each super power needs submarines and so does Thailand.

But submarines are much complicated to handle, especially in deep water aeras like the Golf of Siam. So the Thai submariners should get some training in Austria or Switzerland before boarding their vessels.

Just look at the map. Thailand's seas are not only the gulf of Thailand. Thailand guards the Malacca strait (one of the busiest shipping lane in the world) and much of its exports go through the South China sea. Thailand does need subs for deterrence and protection. In the gulf of Thailand only midget submarines would make sense for defense but if you look at the greater picture they need to able to project power and protect (or blockade if needed)

to a smaller extent in the Andaman and South China seas. The price/timing and the Chinese sub's quality are different questions though. 

Can we have a third option for the poll?

 

'Is anyone here either directly or indirectly affected by Thailand considering the purchase of submarines'?

 

Its right up there with all the wibbling about Boss.

Yes of course Thailand needs two submarines, very sensible and money saving strategy. Three or four would make more sense.

 

And I need a Shelby Cobra in metallic blue and silver.

A look at the map shows that Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore guard the Street of Malakka, not Thailand.

 

And even if the mighty Thai submarine fleet would rush out to secure foreign shores, what would they expect the enemy to do? Laugh himself to death?

But let them buy their new toys. Money must change hands and that keeps the country running. Sadly they cancelled the deal with the stone old German submarines and took chinese instead.

The subs will be as usefull for Thailand's savety as their proud airplane carrier is.

Just thought...they at least have a target to practice with......they can tow the aircraft carrier out to sea and try to sink it.

Having purchased one submarine they will need to go ahead with the other two. One submarine is pretty useless and will docked for repairs most of the time. The normal rule of thumb is one sub operational, one in for repairs/upgrades, and another in for maintenance.

 

The submarines will not be such a deterrent, but Thailand needs a credible anti-submarine capability. It can only develop this with its own submarines to practice on.

IMHO, the real question is "Does Thailand need a Navy?". 

 

In addition to cancelling the submarine order, they should scrap their aircraft carrier and invest in S&R equipment and training and then rename themselves as the Thai Coast Guard.  Some patrol boats, helicopters and a couple of long range recon planes would be all that they would need and they would actually be able to do some good instead of being an embarrassing waste of time and money.

1 hour ago, Ireland32 said:

Because it’s not DEEP enough Einstein 

What depth do these submarines need to operate? The Gulf of Thailand is 50 to 85 metres deep, with the Andaman and South China Seas much deeper. The Yuan class submarine draws 6.7 metres square. 

 

Making more sense now, brains?

The rural people in Thailand can not do anything with a submarine in a rice paddy. Instead rather spend the money on relief for the nation during the covid epidemic and build better relations.  A country is only as strong as it's people, not it's meanest war machines. WW2 has taught us just that!

More to do with a few Thai generals needing a large commission than Thailand needing the submarines IMHO.