Retirement Extension 2020 (65k transfer method)

[bangkokgalaxy]

Has anything changed recently for new retirement extensions using the 65k international bank transfer method?

Last year, I only needed 12 months bank statements, showing monthly international wire transfers, and a letter from the

bank confirming all information.

 

[ubonjoe]

There have been no changes. 

[rosk]

My experience with this at Udon Thani immigration last June.

I am Norwegian, so bear over with my English please.

I tried to do my extension , based on OA visa, based on minimum 65k a month, 12 moths back in time (retirement, pension from government).

I had also 800k in my account, but didn't want to tie up this money, and for that reason use the 65k way, I had 12 moths back in time bank statement from kasikorn bank, underlined every transfer by the bank, took about 2 hours to get all this done. Had all the correct required documents and copies also.  The immigration officer then, whitout asking me, only used my 800k in my account and based my  new extension on that, not on my income 65k every month 12 moths back in time.

First I was happy it all went smooth and fast, but when I saw what she had done, I complained about she used my 800k to it, even whitout asking me.... She said that was easier for them, that's why she chose that option.

I then wanted to change that to the option I wanted, she said it's possible, but then they would give me a big red cross over the just made extension in my passport, and needed a new page to make new extension. 

On too of that, she then told me they wanted not only bank statement 12 months back in time but back to 1e januar last year, so in my case about 16 moths back in time, which ment i had to go back to the bank, get new statement, hours waiting again, pay the fees one more time and come back next day to immigration (3hours driving from home..).

So basically I had no choice, had to accept the extension they gave me and tie up my money according the rules, for one year.

This for information, maybe useful to know for someone in the the same situation at the same office....

[PFMills]

Nonthaburi asked me to show 13 months every year.

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, rosk said:

I had also 800k in my account, but didn't want to tie up this money, and for that reason use the 65k way, I had 12 moths back in time bank statement from kasikorn bank, underlined every transfer by the bank, took about 2 hours to get all this done. Had all the correct required documents and copies also. 

Having 800k baht in same account as your income transfers was a big mistake. They will always choose the option that they think is easier for them.

[tuk75]

Norwegians get a income letter from their embassy. If you don't have this , of coarse the immigration uses your 800k in the account.

[Peter Denis]

5 hours ago, rosk said:

...

I tried to do my extension , based on OA visa, based on minimum 65k a month, 12 moths back in time (retirement, pension from government).

...

Probably you were not aware of the possibility to use an Embassy issued foreign income letter.

When applying for it at the Norwegian Embassy you only need to provide evidence of that monthly foreign income (e.g. you state pension payments), and they will issue you the letter.

Using that letter there is no need to park/transfer money to a personal thai bank-account,  And the letter is the 'easiest' for your local IO, and in majority of cases it will be accepted 'no questions asked'.  It is possible that the officer handling your application would also require you to provide some evidence of the SOURCE of that foreign income, but since that is the same evidence you presented to the Norwegian Embassy that won't be any problem at all.

So next year, apply at your Embassy for that income letter.

 

 

[Seeall]

6 hours ago, rosk said:

My experience with this at Udon Thani immigration last June.

I am Norwegian, so bear over with my English please.

I tried to do my extension , based on OA visa, based on minimum 65k a month, 12 moths back in time (retirement, pension from government).

I had also 800k in my account, but didn't want to tie up this money, and for that reason use the 65k way, I had 12 moths back in time bank statement from kasikorn bank, underlined every transfer by the bank, took about 2 hours to get all this done. Had all the correct required documents and copies also.  The immigration officer then, whitout asking me, only used my 800k in my account and based my  new extension on that, not on my income 65k every month 12 moths back in time.

First I was happy it all went smooth and fast, but when I saw what she had done, I complained about she used my 800k to it, even whitout asking me.... She said that was easier for them, that's why she chose that option.

I then wanted to change that to the option I wanted, she said it's possible, but then they would give me a big red cross over the just made extension in my passport, and needed a new page to make new extension. 

On too of that, she then told me they wanted not only bank statement 12 months back in time but back to 1e januar last year, so in my case about 16 moths back in time, which ment i had to go back to the bank, get new statement, hours waiting again, pay the fees one more time and come back next day to immigration (3hours driving from home..).

So basically I had no choice, had to accept the extension they gave me and tie up my money according the rules, for one year.

This for information, maybe useful to know for someone in the the same situation at the same office....

They are all presumptios, not co

municate...  all over, even when ordering the most simple thing

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, Seeall said:

They are all presumptios, not co

municate...  all over, even when ordering the most simple thing

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Max69xl
Deleted because of a sudden gateway error.

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, Seeall said:

They are all presumptios, not co

municate...  all over, even when ordering the most simple thing

Immigration didn't do anything wrong. He should have used the income letter from his embassy/consulate. That would have been the easiest way. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Immigration didn't do anything wrong. He should have used the income letter from his embassy/consulate. That would have been the easiest way. 

 

I thought I had the recollection of Immigration taking the following posture:

 

1. If someone's embassy is still issuing income affidavits, then the person applying on the basis of the monthly income method needs to use the affidavit, and not the foreign transfers...

 

2. But if the person's embassy is NO longer issuing income affidavits (such as the U.S., UK, and a few others), only then the monthly foreign transfers are accepted as an alternative method.

 

 

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I thought I had the recollection of Immigration taking the following posture:

 

1. If someone's embassy is still issuing income affidavits, then the person applying on the basis of the monthly income method needs to use the affidavit, and not the foreign transfers...

 

2. But if the person's embassy is NO longer issuing income affidavits (such as the U.S., UK, and a few others), only then the monthly foreign transfers are accepted as an alternative method.

@ubonjoe > Hi UJ, I seem to recall that what as TGJinBKK mentions higher, is the stance in Jomtien.  But is this applied nation-wide?  I thought that irrespective of whether your Embassy issues income-letters you could also make use of the monthly income transfer method (some Embassies don't issue income letters when your income is from another country).

[Ng Kognito]

When I (married to a Thai) went to renew my annual visa, my embassy no longer does the affidavits, immigration told me they couldn’t give 2 <deleted>s if the president of Bangkok Bank himself wrote me a letter detailing my continuous direct deposits into Bangkok Bank each and every month since June 2014. If I didn’t have 400K in a bank 3 months before I applied, I was going home. I support my Thai wife of 15 years, her 3 kids, my kid, and my father-in-law (mother-in-law recently passed away), and have been since I early retired here in 2014. I’ve pumped more money into the Thai economy in 6 years than the immigration lady’s entire family will see in their lifetime, yet she was going to kick me out of the country. I blame my lazy-ass Embassy more than I blame Thai immigration though.

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, Ng Kognito said:

When I (married to a Thai) went to renew my annual visa, my embassy no longer does the affidavits, immigration told me they couldn’t give 2 <deleted>s if the president of Bangkok Bank himself wrote me a letter detailing my continuous direct deposits into Bangkok Bank each and every month since June 2014. If I didn’t have 400K in a bank 3 months before I applied, I was going home. I support my Thai wife of 15 years, her 3 kids, my kid, and my father-in-law (mother-in-law recently passed away), and have been since I early retired here in 2014. I’ve pumped more money into the Thai economy in 6 years than the immigration lady’s entire family will see in their lifetime, yet she was going to kick me out of the country. I blame my lazy-ass Embassy more than I blame Thai immigration though.

What is your IO?  When using the 400K funds-in-bank method only TWO months of seasoning is required at the moment of applying for the 1-year extension of stay.  Just bring a copy of the PoliceOrder stipulating that requirement (thai and english version) and politely ask to talk to the officer in charge when the officer handling your application incorrectly insists on 3 months.

Did you already use up the 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your thai wife?  If not, you can apply for that extension in the final days of the Amnesty, which will provide you a permission to stay till approx 23 November.  And that would give you plenty of time to transfer the 400K to your personal thai bank-account and have it seasoned for two months when you apply mid November for the 1-year extension of stay.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

@ubonjoe > Hi UJ, I seem to recall that what as TGJinBKK mentions higher, is the stance in Jomtien.  But is this applied nation-wide?  I thought that irrespective of whether your Embassy issues income-letters you could also make use of the monthly income transfer method (some Embassies don't issue income letters when your income is from another country).

 

Good point... I remember people posting that that was the answer they got from Immigration in that kind of a situation. But I don't remember off-hand where those reports were originating from, and whether it was widespread or not.

 

[david555]

Today a lesson learned for eventual future use maybe ?.

 

As I use the 800K Bank method ( with none problems for years ) , but leaving Thailand in 2022 , I could so try to use the combination method for the very last one September 2022 (for any eventuality ) , & as my Embassy still give Affidavit , and also  my pension organization can give me a nice letter proving the amount of my pension paid for life … with a nice big seal stamp on it , if I request to them (as I had years ago so )

 

This would make my money transfers out of Thailand more spread possibility .

Of course to be complete safe with I.O's...,  I have 2 KK accounts & I could keep the 800K + one as reserve on  the moment for applying for the combination one , in case they would give any problem when trying the combination method , I can still use the 800K one 

 

Any  hidden problems doing so ? Peter Denis ?

Edited September 1, 2020 by david555

[rosk]

11 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Having 800k baht in same account as your income transfers was a big mistake. They will always choose the option that they think is easier for them.

Good to know for next time, thanks for the tip!

[rosk]

6 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Probably you were not aware of the possibility to use an Embassy issued foreign income letter.

When applying for it at the Norwegian Embassy you only need to provide evidence of that monthly foreign income (e.g. you state pension payments), and they will issue you the letter.

Using that letter there is no need to park/transfer money to a personal thai bank-account,  And the letter is the 'easiest' for your local IO, and in majority of cases it will be accepted 'no questions asked'.  It is possible that the officer handling your application would also require you to provide some evidence of the SOURCE of that foreign income, but since that is the same evidence you presented to the Norwegian Embassy that won't be any problem at all.

So next year, apply at your Embassy for that income letter.

 

 

Yes, I know about this income letter, but to get it I have to travel to Bangkok and stay minimum one night, a lot of hassel.. i made my extension last year at the same udon office, based on 12 months transfers from Norway, no need to have that letter at all then...

My "mistake" this time was probably the 800k on the same account as monthly income, like Ubon Joe say.

Anyway, my main point was to warn about the demand of bank statements back from January previous year, in my case 16 months, even the "rules" for sure say 12 months back in time are required?

[Peter Denis]

9 hours ago, david555 said:

Today a lesson learned for eventual future use maybe ?.

 

As I use the 800K Bank method ( with none problems for years ) , but leaving Thailand in 2022 , I could so try to use the combination method for the very last one September 2022 (for any eventuality ) , & as my Embassy still give Affidavit , and also  my pension organization can give me a nice letter proving the amount of my pension paid for life … with a nice big seal stamp on it , if I request to them (as I had years ago so )

 

This would make my money transfers out of Thailand more spread possibility .

Of course to be complete safe with I.O's...,  I have 2 KK accounts & I could keep the 800K + one as reserve on  the moment for applying for the combination one , in case they would give any problem when trying the combination method , I can still use the 800K one 

 

Any  hidden problems doing so ? Peter Denis ?

No problems whatsoever.

But you need to be aware that when you applied for your current 1-year extension of stay using the 800K funds-in-bank method, that you are expected to maintain the requirements for that method during the full year your permission to stay provides you.  So that means at least 800K during the first 3 months after you applied and then you can use that amount but never dip below 400K.  And then in the last two months before your next 1-year extension of stay application top up again to 800K.  Doing so you would be in full compliance and can use the 800K funds-in-bank method again for that application.

But you want to switch method and for your next application use the Embassy issued income letter.  From what you wrote, there won't be any problem at all switching to that method when your Embassy letter shows that your monthly foreign income is +65K.  And normally this would be accepted with no further questions asked (immigration actually prefers that you use that method, as it is easiest for them and only needs them to check that the amount on that letter is indeed +65K monthly).  Still It is possible - but rare - that the immigration officer handling your application would also ask you to provide some evidence of the SOURCE of that foreign income stated on your Embassy letter, which you could easily prove by showing the pension statement you received from your pension provider.  And they might also ask you some evidence of transfer of money to your Thai bank-account to satisfy their curiosity how you manage to pay for your living expenses while in Thailand.

IMPORTANT > And lesson learned from rosk's report, is that when applying for next year's 1-year extension of stay, you should ONLY provide the officer the Embassy letter, and NOT the evidence of you having maintained the 800K-400K funds-in-bank.  That way there cannot be any confusion and the officer will handle your application based on the Embassy Letter.  And only in the unlikely case there are unforeseen problems and IO is unwilling to accept that Embassy Letter, you could then fall back on the 800K funds-in-bank method which you keep as a Joker up your sleeve.

[david555]

14 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

No problems whatsoever.

But you need to be aware that when you applied for your current 1-year extension of stay using the 800K funds-in-bank method, that you are expected to maintain the requirements for that method during the full year your permission to stay provides you.  So that means at least 800K during the first 3 months after you applied and then you can use that amount but never dip below 400K.  And then in the last two months before your next 1-year extension of stay application top up again to 800K.  Doing so you would be in full compliance and can use the 800K funds-in-bank method again for that application.

But you want to switch method and for your next application use the Embassy issued income letter.  From what you wrote, there won't be any problem at all switching to that method when your Embassy letter shows that your monthly foreign income is +65K.  And normally this would be accepted with no further questions asked (immigration actually prefers that you use that method, as it is easiest for them and only needs them to check that the amount on that letter is indeed +65K monthly).  Still It is possible - but rare - that the immigration officer handling your application would also ask you to provide some evidence of the SOURCE of that foreign income stated on your Embassy letter, which you could easily prove by showing the pension statement you received from your pension provider.  And they might also ask you some evidence of transfer of money to your Thai bank-account to satisfy their curiosity how you manage to pay for your living expenses while in Thailand.

IMPORTANT > And lesson learned from rosk's report, is that when applying for next year's 1-year extension of stay, you should ONLY provide the officer the Embassy letter, and NOT the evidence of you having maintained the 800K-400K funds-in-bank.  That way there cannot be any confusion and the officer will handle your application based on the Embassy Letter.  And only in the unlikely case there are unforeseen problems and IO is unwilling to accept that Embassy Letter, you could then fall back on the 800K funds-in-bank method which you keep as a Joker up your sleeve.

Understood in full...that is why i mention i have 2 KK accounts to keep the 800 k as only in second case to show.

 

BUT problem is that pension and so also the pension statment does not reach 65k......hence i thought it was like before ...a lump sum in bank anyway making complete what is short on the pension affidavit to the total for the 800K. 

If this 65 is needed as pension it would not be possible!

That is why i refer too the combination methode AS BEFORE...

 

In last option i would keep all intact under the 800k in full at bank and just after the 3 month money control checking transfering the allowed half.....and skipping the 2 seasoning 2 months before the new ret.ext. beeing so not planning another ret. Ext......

Question would be 

 

1_ Beeing in brech of the running ret.ext.   ( with little chance they fond out as leaving at end date anyway

2_ As not planning amyway to make a new .....would not be in breach ...?

This is situation not hsppening much so i think I.O. did even mot vonsider it in their rules ...so a 50/50 thing.

 

Because how ever in such case you could 100% legal take your money out account ( not meaning in bank rules way as that is no problem)

Unless in fill 100% legal way it would be needed to end your Ret.Ext. by let expiere and request a last 7 days to leave Th.

 

OR...if possible fly out example cambodia  and come in on exempt visa so beeing 30 dsy free under no obligation keep money in bank ....

 

This i understand is quit hypotheticall but anyway possible this could be the full legal way to END an ret.ext. and take money out the running  ret.ext one 

 

A real thinker .......

 

Beeing just a naughty boy and not seasoning last one would be the simplest as leaving anyway, and a surprise money check is almost not happening

 

Thanks to read this under consideration case from my side 

????????????

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, david555 said:

...

BUT problem is that pension and so also the pension statement does not reach 65k......hence i thought it was like before ...a lump sum in bank anyway making complete what is short on the pension affidavit to the total for the 800K. 

If this 65 is needed as pension it would not be possible!

That is why i refer too the combination method AS BEFORE...

...

Hi, In my earlier response I overlooked that you wanted to use the combination method, as your pension does not meet the +65K monthly treshold.

In principle there should not be any problem doing this.

BUT there are some offices that do not accept the combination method, so it would be a matter of enquiring beforehand whether they would accept it.

Since you mentioned that you have two bank-accounts.

If you ensure that one of them fully meets the 800K-400K funds-in-bank requirement over the year, when applying for the 1-year extension of stay, you could use that one as 'hidden back-up' in case of any problems with the combination method application.

To avoid any misunderstandings by IO (and once again using the funds-in-bank method on your application), you could lower the amount kept on your 2nd bank-account (such that it meets the combination method required fund, but would NOT meet the funds-in-bank method). E.g. if your pension is only 50K (instead of 65K), you could just keep +200K in that 2nd bank account over the full year.  12 monthly transfers of 50K, total 600K and the +200K would make you meet the 800K criterium for the combination method.

But once again, you need to enquire beforehand at your local IO whether they are willing to accept the combination method.  It is foreseen in the IO rules/regulations so normally should not be a problem, but we all know that many IOs play by their own rules hence the need to check with them beforehand...

 

[david555]

Just now, Peter Denis said:

Hi, In my earlier response I overlooked that you wanted to use the combination method, as your pension does not meet the +65K monthly treshold.

In principle there should not be any problem doing this.

BUT there are some offices that do not accept the combination method, so it would be a matter of enquiring beforehand whether they would accept it.

Since you mentioned that you have two bank-accounts.

If you ensure that one of them fully meets the 800K-400K funds-in-bank requirement over the year, when applying for the 1-year extension of stay, you could use that one as 'hidden back-up' in case of any problems with the combination method application.

To avoid any misunderstandings by IO (and once again using the funds-in-bank method on your application), you could lower the amount kept on your 2nd bank-account (such that it meets the combination method required fund, but would NOT meet the funds-in-bank method). E.g. if your pension is only 50K (instead of 65K), you could just keep +200K in that 2nd bank account over the full year.  12 monthly transfers of 50K, total 600K and the +200K would make you meet the 800K criterium for the combination method.

But once again, you need to enquire beforehand at your local IO whether they are willing to accept the combination method.  It is foreseen in the IO rules/regulations so normally should not be a problem, but we all know that many IOs play by their own rules hence the need to check with them beforehand...

 

Thanks for reply , most of it I had already so in mind , only was not sure if in combination they would like to see also transfers.....

I would never risk combo method whiteout the 800+ K as a safety parachute . 

Only would use so if needed, and depending the fly out & in would not be open again 

Thanks 

[Peter Denis]

30 minutes ago, david555 said:

......

Question would be 

1_ Being in breach of the running ret.ext.   ( with little chance they fond out as leaving at end date anyway

2_ As not planning amyway to make a new .....would not be in breach ...?

This is situation not hsppening much so i think I.O. did even mot vonsider it in their rules ...so a 50/50 thing.

...

If you plan to leave Thailand permanently, it would be nonsense to keep the 800K in your personal thai bank-account until the moment that you exit Thailand.  Not only that, but good luck to get hold of that money once you have left the country.

So in that case there should be no problem already transferring that amount back to your foreign bank-account.  The question is WHEN to do this.

Since you report to Jomtien where they want to see that the 800K is still on your bank-account three months after you applied for the 1-year extension of stay, you would have to wait till after those 3 months.  

Technically you might not be in compliance anymore, when not maintaining the funds-in-bank required amount, but IO would have no way of checking that.  So no worries, about it.

 

[david555]

1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

If you plan to leave Thailand permanently, it would be nonsense to keep the 800K in your personal thai bank-account until the moment that you exit Thailand.  Not only that, but good luck to get hold of that money once you have left the country.

So in that case there should be no problem already transferring that amount back to your foreign bank-account.  The question is WHEN to do this.

Since you report to Jomtien where they want to see that the 800K is still on your bank-account three months after you applied for the 1-year extension of stay, you would have to wait till after those 3 months.  

Technically you might not be in compliance anymore, when not maintaining the funds-in-bank required amount, but IO would have no way of checking that.  So no worries, about it.

 

As said before that last part of my consideration divided the I.O. requirements  in 2 options   ….on who see it as applicant is ending his ret.ext.  so  no need to keep... , and the other one the nasty one  , who find it in breach with running ext.  which it is  in my opinion .

 

It was also more a thinking to make a last  reserve Ret.Ext. in the cheapest way just before I leave …… one never know  if I can feel relaxed again in our home country after being away then 13 years …...and a still valid last ret. ext, existing for eventuality  ….????