UK minister surprised by Scottish independence referendum move

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Cummings. The gift that keeps on giving.

Seems that he was not paying council tax on the house he ran away to when he had corona. ????

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18791503.dominic-cummings-handed-30k-council-tax-break-charges-arent-backdated/

This pub owner got it right.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-merseyside-pub-three-bellends-boris-johnson-local-lockdown-b1041343.html

[JonnyF]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Well, looks like Covid Maggie was a short lived storm in a teacup. 

 

Support for independence at its highest ever level - 58% of Scots want to exit the UK. 

 

 

Nearly every poll before Brexit predicted a Remain vote and look how that worked out.

 

It's a poll, take it with a pinch of salt. When the whole country votes in a private booth without being pressured by the pollster or by leading questions the result is often very different. At that point being a chest thumper is not enough, you need the courage of your convictions like the Brexiteers had in 2016.

 

Anyway, Westminster is likely to allow another vote in around 2034 so we'll find out for sure then.

[transam]

14 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So Cummings evading his council tax is nobody's business but his? 

He has been evading it since 2002 ! He is a wealthy man and can easily afford to pay it while millions of others across the UK struggle to come up with the money but they do so because its the law.

And yet you defend him.

You are now making yourself look daft.....

Has Cummings been served with a prosecution notice for any of the digging you laughably keep bringing up....?

If not, why not..?

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

You are now making yourself look daft.....

Has Cummings been served with a prosecution notice for any of the digging you laughably keep bringing up....?

If not, why not..?

Corruption.

[transam]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 No excuses from me; I have repeatedly condemned her and said she should resign.

 

No; but I have repeatedly said that I think she should.

 

As has everyone in the SNP from Sturgeon down to Ferrier's local constituency office.

 

Yep, total hypocrisy on her part; as I have said before.

 

But your attempts to lay the blame for that on the SNP are ridiculous.

 

Has everyone in the SNP from Sturgeon down to Ferrier's local constituency office called upon her to resign? Yes or no?

 

Cummings and Boris haven't, though; and their spokespeople

refused to say anything when asked!

 

BTW, Cummings did have C19; he said so in his press press conference! But he is not an MP, and so a lot easier to sack.

 

The SNP is not burying itself; one ex member is burying herself.

 

The SNP have acted completely honourably in this matter. They have sacked her from the party and repeatedly called upon her to resign as an MP.

 

They cannot sack her as an MP; so what else would you suggest they can do?

The SNP has a leader that was prosecuted for dodgy stuff, found not guilty, but the fire is still smouldering....????

A future SNP leader walked because he was sending dodgy texts to a teen boy....????

An SNP House of Commons MP did something totally ridiculous and doesn't realise it, it seems, it was a blip......????

You say the SNP is honourable....????

 

 

[transam]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 A zillion other folk?

 

Must have been packed in like sardines!

 

Cummings broke the lockdown rules in place at the time. Lockdown rules which, as the PM's senior advisor, he must have had a hand in setting.

 

Both he and Ferrier should go.

 

He was investigated by the police and faced no charges, I await the verdict on Ferrier with interest as she 100% mixed with folk on a looooooong journey to Scotland......

 

[transam]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 If they do; they must declare it in the Register of members interests.

 

From The Code of Conduct for Members of Parliament

 

Are you saying YOU know MP's that don't...?

[transam]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Whilst the other is the senior advisor to the PM and thus had a hand in making the rules which he then treated with contempt, risked infecting staff at No. 10 as well as anyone he and his family met at their stops during their journeys and while in Barnards Castle.

 

BTW, do you actually know how many people were in the same carriage as her; let alone on the same train?

 

You are obviously totally unaware of the very strict social distancing and mask wearing rules on all public transport in the UK at present.

 

Not that any of that excuses her actions in any way, of course. She broke the rules, she put others at risk, she should go. 

 

I have turned my PC on to find you have quoted me 12 times on this thread, I have replied to a few really stupid posts, the same ol' stuff, so I will not be reading the remaining anti everything mainly garabage.

 

Now if you bunch them all up into one concise post I will read it and go from there.

There's a good chap... ????

[transam]

14 hours ago, Phulublub said:

The only one posting excuses is you.

 

She is no longer an SNP MP.  How hard is that for you to grasp?  The SNP have no sway on whether o not she resigns as an MP.  Her salary (technically I think MPs are self employed rather than salaried, but not relevent) comes from Westminster, and ultimately the taxpayer.  The only ways she can be removed as an MP are by resigning or being beaten in a future election.

 

What, exactly, are Johnson and Cummins smiling about? ( other than Cummins is above the law, as well as not required to follow the guidleines and rules laid down by the team he is part of). 

 

When he, and she, and others, flout these rules all it does is further erodes public trust and willingness to act sensibly.  It is not of great import which public figure (whether elected or not) flouts the rules, or which side of any political divide they come from.  

 

I still have not seen a single person defending her or her actions; but you continue to defend Cummins. 

 

PH

I support the findings of a police investigation into an employee of the government.

No charges...

I await the verdict of a police investigation into an MP who 100% did break the law..????

 

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

 

Ruam thinks Scotland having a hard border with England is okay. Ruam fails to see why this woul dbe a huge issue with many other Scottish people. This is why the likes Ruam lost the last vote. Don't be like Ruam. 

 

The situation is much worst now - Scotland close down businesses, but are pretty bailed out by the london government. An independent Scotland could not afford these measures. 

 

It's all balony. No doubt the SNP are doing well with their message, but once facts are laid out (ie hard border, EU status, currency, debt, the pandemic), you'll get a similar result to last time.

 

You can't keep having a referendum every few years to get the result you want. 

 

Those saying that the London government will have no choice but to grant a referendum, only have to look at the issue with Spain and Catalonia. Spain said no, held strong, and the movement died. 

 

 

Then tell us some facts. All you have been doing is spouting meaningless headline guff in the manner of a moody adolescent. 

 

Tell us, for example, why a functioning border would be an issue with other Scots when the are numerous examples of it working just fine. 

 

Tell us why a Scottish government could not financially respond to an event such as covid in the same way that Westminster has? How did every other country manage without London's support? 

[transam]

28 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Corruption.

Gawd, surely you can do better than that.................????

[sandyf]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

The SNP has a leader that was prosecuted for dodgy stuff, found not guilty, but the fire is still smouldering....????

A future SNP leader walked because he was sending dodgy texts to a teen boy....????

An SNP House of Commons MP did something totally ridiculous and doesn't realise it, it seems, it was a blip......????

You say the SNP is honourable....????

 

 

You are perfectly free to believe that no English MPs have resigned, or doing time, for unsavoury and illegal activity.

 

Ex-Conservative MP Charlie Elphicke has been jailed for two years for sexually assaulting two women.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-54161766

 

 

[transam]

15 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So Cummings evading his council tax is nobody's business but his? 

He has been evading it since 2002 ! He is a wealthy man and can easily afford to pay it while millions of others across the UK struggle to come up with the money but they do so because its the law.

And yet you defend him.

I am defending no one, because I do not know the FACTS.

If he gets prosecuted for wrong doing, get back to me, cos I am not one of the "Hang 'em high" brigade, you are.......Facts ol' bean, facts... ????

[transam]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

This pub owner got it right.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-merseyside-pub-three-bellends-boris-johnson-local-lockdown-b1041343.html

Yeh but, the landlord is also an Independent reader, what do you expect....????

[transam]

59 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Nearly every poll before Brexit predicted a Remain vote and look how that worked out.

 

It's a poll, take it with a pinch of salt. When the whole country votes in a private booth without being pressured by the pollster or by leading questions the result is often very different. At that point being a chest thumper is not enough, you need the courage of your convictions like the Brexiteers had in 2016.

 

Anyway, Westminster is likely to allow another vote in around 2034 so we'll find out for sure then.

I probably won't..........????..................????......................????

[transam]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are perfectly free to believe that no English MPs have resigned, or doing time, for unsavoury and illegal activity.

 

Ex-Conservative MP Charlie Elphicke has been jailed for two years for sexually assaulting two women.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-54161766

 

 

Yes but, his lot are not trying to break up the United Kingdom.....????

[Rookiescot]

23 minutes ago, transam said:

I am defending no one, because I do not know the FACTS.

If he gets prosecuted for wrong doing, get back to me, cos I am not one of the "Hang 'em high" brigade, you are.......Facts ol' bean, facts... ????

Except when it comes to anyone linked with the SNP.

Then you are actively running to fetch a rope.

You do however condone actions such as council tax evasion so long as its one of your chaps doing it. 

[Rookiescot]

15 minutes ago, transam said:

Yes but, his lot are not trying to break up the United Kingdom.....????

You were warned voting for Brexit risked the break up of the UK.

You either ignored, dismissed or did not believe those warnings. Or possibly did not care if they were true.

 

Brexiteers have done more to further Scottish independence than anyone else could.

Thanks.

 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You were warned voting for Brexit risked the break up of the UK.

You either ignored, dismissed or did not believe those warnings. Or possibly did not care if they were true.

 

Brexiteers have done more to further Scottish independence than anyone else could.

Thanks.

 

What a load of tosh. Brexit had nothing to do with the Scots Nationalist wanting to partition the UK, are you seriously saying that without the Brexit vote that the Scots Nationalist would have been content to live in perfect harmony with their lairy neighbours 'the English', of course they wouldn't, any excuse would have sufficed.

When you voted in 2014 for your 'independence', you yourselves were voting to leave the EU, try being a little more honest.

[mommysboy]

If the Scots wish to leave the UK then there is very little point in denying their will.  I would suggest that the current surge in the opinion polls has more to do with the global economic slump and covid19, but the useless UK government is an understandable target as it has been for many years now.  Whilst a 55% majority is wholly possible and may be deemed a super majority, there are stark differences among the regions, so if the islands for example wish to remain in the UK, then this must be respected in my opinion.  A referendum in 5 year's time would be best.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

If the Scots wish to leave the UK then there is very little point in denying their will.  I would suggest that the current surge in the opinion polls has more to do with the global economic slump and covid19, but the useless UK government is an understandable target as it has been for many years now.  Whilst a 55% majority is wholly possible and may be deemed a super majority, there are stark differences among the regions, so if the islands for example wish to remain in the UK, then this must be respected in my opinion.  A referendum in 5 year's time would be best.

While there is no doubt that the incompetence and corruption exhibited by the current PM is certainly outraging sensibilities up and down the entire UK, in Scotland it has merely exemplified just how little we benefit from being in the union, and how we have the capacity and the capability to look after our own affairs. He is not so much turning people away from the union but allowing the Scottish Government to demonstrate that they can take the strain where Westminster fails. 

Self confidence has been lacking for a lot of Scots; there will always be the uber unionist who see the protection of the UK as being paramount, but there are many in the middle who are pragmatic and want what is best; the SG is showing that many of the concerns they held in 2014 are no longer valid. 

 

The Shetland islands is red herring devised to sow concerns in mainland Scots. The main architect of independence for the Shetlands is a man from Suffolk who moved north about 10 years ago. I am all for welcoming newcomers, but I don't think he is representative of the community at large. Still, it makes for exciting headlines for those who seek to prevent an independent Scotland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_"Captain_Calamity"_Hill

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

What a load of tosh. Brexit had nothing to do with the Scots Nationalist wanting to partition the UK, are you seriously saying that without the Brexit vote that the Scots Nationalist would have been content to live in perfect harmony with their lairy neighbours 'the English', of course they wouldn't, any excuse would have sufficed.

When you voted in 2014 for your 'independence', you yourselves were voting to leave the EU, try being a little more honest.

As Scotland has never been a member state of the EU, we would not have been voting to leave in 2014. We would have been voting to take our own decision to join on our own terms. As it is, we were pulled out against our clear wishes. 

 

But nice of you, once again, to try to paint some sort of anti English narrative. Your petted lip is never far away when you get on to an Scottish thread, always trying to play the victim. 

 

You seem to fail to understand that Scottish independence is not a one size fits all ideology. Of course there are some who are as firmly wedded to the notion of independence as there are those who oppose it regardless of what indignities and abuses remaining in the UK entails. But it is the middle that are speaking now; it is the middle, who previously felt safer as part of the UK, who are increasingly deciding that the benefits of the union, whatever they may be, are not worth the mountains of manure we need to accept being dumped on us. 

 

Therefore, if you want to preserve the union, the answer is simple - start paying attention to the soft middle and concede to their demands or see your precious union die.

[vogie]

35 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

As Scotland has never been a member state of the EU, we would not have been voting to leave in 2014. We would have been voting to take our own decision to join on our own terms. As it is, we were pulled out against our clear wishes. 

 

But nice of you, once again, to try to paint some sort of anti English narrative. Your petted lip is never far away when you get on to an Scottish thread, always trying to play the victim. 

 

You seem to fail to understand that Scottish independence is not a one size fits all ideology. Of course there are some who are as firmly wedded to the notion of independence as there are those who oppose it regardless of what indignities and abuses remaining in the UK entails. But it is the middle that are speaking now; it is the middle, who previously felt safer as part of the UK, who are increasingly deciding that the benefits of the union, whatever they may be, are not worth the mountains of manure we need to accept being dumped on us. 

 

Therefore, if you want to preserve the union, the answer is simple - start paying attention to the soft middle and concede to their demands or see your precious union die.

First of all I would like to thank you for your insults again, I will reply but I will not stoop so low as nationalists seem to go.

First of all you were not pulled out againgst your wishes as it was a United Kingdom referendum, certain areas didn't all vote to leave, but over all the majority chose to leave the EU, it was the wish of the UK whether you like it or not, that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

"Mountains of manure we need to accept being dumped upon us." Perleeeaase, ????????????????????

And if you cannot debate without all the insults I would prefer if you kept them to yourself although I do appreciate that nationalism can have an affect on ones perspective.

[RuamRudy]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

First of all I would like to thank you for your insults again, I will reply but I will not stoop so low as nationalists seem to go.

First of all you were not pulled out againgst your wishes as it was a United Kingdom referendum, certain areas didn't all vote to leave, but over all the majority chose to leave the EU, it was the wish of the UK whether you like it or not, that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

"Mountains of manure we need to accept being dumped upon us." Perleeeaase, ????????????????????

And if you cannot debate without all the insults I would prefer if you kept them to yourself although I do appreciate that nationalism can have an affect on ones perspective.

As I said, always ready to play the victim. 

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

As I said, always ready to play the victim. 

Sometimes the truth is a bitter pill to swallow.

[RuamRudy]

It looks like the first internal borders withing the UK are about to be imposed. Well done, Wales, for taking decisive steps to secure your country from further damage. I hope it shows your population that they have the power and the authority to take decisive actions independently, without the need to seek permission from London. Scotland will, hopefully, follow suit shortly.

 

BANNED OF MY FATHERS: Wales to BAN English people from Covid hotspots visiting from Friday

 

I appreciate that the headline is written mostly for the English market, but it is utterly ridiculous in that this very necessary ban does not focus on where anyone originates. What is it with some people desperately trying to paint themselves as victims all the time?

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It looks like the first internal borders withing the UK are about to be imposed. Well done, Wales, for taking decisive steps to secure your country from further damage. I hope it shows your population that they have the power and the authority to take decisive actions independently, without the need to seek permission from London. Scotland will, hopefully, follow suit shortly.

 

BANNED OF MY FATHERS: Wales to BAN English people from Covid hotspots visiting from Friday

 

I appreciate that the headline is written mostly for the English market, but it is utterly ridiculous in that this very necessary ban does not focus on where anyone originates. What is it with some people desperately trying to paint themselves as victims all the time?

Maybe you could loan Wales your secret Scots Nat resistance fighter Sean Clerkin. ????????????

[transam]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It looks like the first internal borders withing the UK are about to be imposed. Well done, Wales, for taking decisive steps to secure your country from further damage. I hope it shows your population that they have the power and the authority to take decisive actions independently, without the need to seek permission from London. Scotland will, hopefully, follow suit shortly.

 

BANNED OF MY FATHERS: Wales to BAN English people from Covid hotspots visiting from Friday

 

I appreciate that the headline is written mostly for the English market, but it is utterly ridiculous in that this very necessary ban does not focus on where anyone originates. What is it with some people desperately trying to paint themselves as victims all the time?

That reads like yourself.....????

 

Plus, it is obvious that you want the total break up of the UK....Sad really...

 

[Phulublub]

 

5 hours ago, transam said:

I am defending no one, because I do not know the FACTS.

If he gets prosecuted for wrong doing, get back to me, cos I am not one of the "Hang 'em high" brigade, you are.......Facts ol' bean, facts... ????

And yet

 

5 hours ago, transam said:

I await the verdict of a police investigation into an MP who 100% did break the law.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

 

And yet

 

????..................Well that takes the biscuit........May I call you, bill or Ben...?    ????