Many farang must leave their families, friends and Thailand

[Why Me]

1 minute ago, trucking said:

I have the means to apply for a retirement visa but I certainly do not intend to tie up 800,000 baht in a low interest Thai bank account.

Great, I believe there is a box you can check when applying for a 1-year extension that says, I have the money but ain't none of your business where I keep it.

[Hi Tea]

1 minute ago, trucking said:

4 minutes ago, Hi Tea said:

What he said is factual, not just "his view".  He doesn't need to show any "government links" to support that statement.

So...just your view as well.

 

Unless you work in immigration and can support your view with written evidence it will remain ......just a view. 

"......just a view".

Only in your mind. 

 

It does happen to be the view of IB also as evidenced by the legitimate renewals of extensions of stay year on year.   Never in god-knows-how-many decades of the facility being available has it ever been suggested by the IB that continuous extensions were anything but official or that at some stage it would be determined that an applicant had too many.

[david555]

Just now, trucking said:

 

Why do you suppose they don't have the means to live the life they desire ?

 

Some visa runners do so because they can't make the financials , that is true, but by no means all.

I have the means to apply for a retirement visa but I certainly do not intend to tie up 800,000 baht in a low interest Thai bank account.

Than you made your choice …. and should not complain the situation turned against your expectations now .

I put more than that 800k in Thai bank with no bad thing ever happened with it...like said I would also liked it to use it for other things ….

[trucking]

14 hours ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

Let's clarify something here. Being on a Non-immi O multi before they stopped and now single, leaving the country every 90days or getting an extension and then leaving is completely and utterly within the law and uses of this type of visa. I only thing that can be problematic is this very situation. How in the hell can anyone and did anyone foresee this situation???!!

 

Totally correct and has been discussed ad infinitum on Thai Visa in many threads. 

[bangkokbonecollector]

6 minutes ago, Why Me said:

All I can say is your girl is lucky to have you as her dad and I wish both of you the best. As they the law is an ass but it is the law.

I'm lucky to have her, such an epic human being, not a mean streak in her. Thanks, greatly appreciated. 

 

Well the 500k is up to the discretion of the officer and I nearly got it done yesterday by the boss but they said she couldn't do it because my visa was to support my child and my child school is actually in a different province, we live on a province border. Sigh, off to the massive building of ques in Tuesday it is!

[trucking]

14 hours ago, Hi Tea said:

"......just a view".

Only in your mind. 

 

It does happen to be the view of IB also as evidenced by the legitimate renewals of extensions of stay year on year.   Never in god-knows-how-many decades of the facility being available has it ever been suggested by the IB that continuous extensions were anything but official or that at some stage it would be determined that an applicant had too many.

 

Well I agree with you.

 

But , never in god-knows-how-many decades of the facility being available has it ever been suggested by the IB that continuous Non Immigrant multis were anything but official or that at some stage would be terminated.

 

By all means, get a 1 year extension. Nothing wrong with that, But equally , nothing wrong with multiple entry visas either. If there were, immigration would have stopped issuing them years ago.

[Why Me]

4 minutes ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

Sigh, off to the massive building of ques in Tuesday it is!

Good luck. Hope it all works out. Drop us a line when it does. I am not a dad yet but hope to be a devoted one like you some day.

[from the home of CC]

2 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

At least Thailand  have given people with short stay visas a free amnesty, the UK haven't. My wife's cousin has been there for nearly a year now on a tourist visa. Thai border lockdown occurred just before her six months were up and, she says, she can't get back yet. Don't know how true that is but she certainly hasn't been given a legal amnesty to stay longer. 

and never will..

[sammieuk1]

I have been stuck outside with family here since the start I would have thought by now there are many stuck inside also now too frightened to move as they can't get back my multi entry visa expires in 17 days the first time in 11 years (what a waste of money that was)  with no hope in sight with these clowns in charge in or out it's a cluster now driven by paranoia ???? 

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, tubby johnson said:

Those caught in limbo if the amnesty isn't extended will resort to visa agents. There's always a way out.

you don't believe that the people in power are looking at that? This 'loophole' will become glaringly more obvious as things tighten up and one day may become embarrassing enough that someone will have to fix it (social media + loss of face have destroyed many plans here)

Edited September 3, 2020 by from the home of CC

[nightfox]

2 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

It always amazes me the number of people who don't follow the law and resort to illegal means to remain in Thailand. Then they inevitably post about how unfair it all is when they are eventually caught out.

Wow you must be living in clueless bubble to not understand how this thing called Covid-19 has infected some of us financially and caused many of us no choice but to use an agent to obtain our extension of stay. 

[Pattaya Spotter]

17 minutes ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

Let's clarify something here. Being on a Non-immi O multi before they stopped and now single, leaving the country every 90days or getting an extension and then leaving is completely and utterly within the law and uses of this type of visa. I only thing that can be problematic is this very situation. How in the hell can anyone and did anyone foresee this situation???!!

It may be legal...but it's certainly against the spirit of the visa laws and regulations. They are finding this out to their detriment now.

[Pattaya Spotter]

5 minutes ago, nightfox said:

Wow you must be living in clueless bubble to not understand how this thing called Covid-19 has infected some of us financially and caused many of us no choice but to use an agent to obtain our extension of stay. 

Don't tell me...tell it to the immigration officer when you're hauled-up in front of them for having obtained permission to stay illegally.

[Eibot]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Bear in mind that while there is no law against border runs, ME visas were not designed with the intention that they would be used in that manner; they are designed for people who make multiple separate trips here, with genuine gaps in between, and the "border run" approach is basically a loophole. 

 

So no reason for Immigration to view inability to do border runs as a legitimate problem; from their standpoint people living here full time should get annual extensions of stay.  "I can't afford to meet the financial requirement"  will get zero sympathy as the government does not want retirees here who lack the minimum required funds.

Problem with this is that people who are genuinely were making regular trips, most due to working abroad for prolonged period per year, are all painted with the same brush. You can imagine that people who needed to travel for work are seriously affected, also with their finances.

 

In other words, the people who this visa was apparently "designed" for.

[luckyluke]

13 minutes ago, Why Me said:

Great, I believe there is a box you can check when applying for a 1-year extension that says, I have the money but ain't none of your business where I keep it.

Except for 3 nationalities it is enough to show you have the necessary income.

If one has funds, one can keep it where one want, 

and also transfer the amount one wish, when one wish.

 

[Eibot]

4 hours ago, tonray said:

Miss income from those who don't have savings or income to qualify for an extension  ?

Income method is not accepted by most. Someone with 400k on the bank has invested less than someone who has bought a house/car cash

[david555]

Just now, Eibot said:

Income method is not accepted by most. Someone with 400k on the bank has invested less than someone who has bought a house/car cash

I asked once a I.O. about that , and answer was reasonable simple ….. in case of need a house or car is not quick sold  so not as liquid as money ….( gold could do anyway …. )

[Bangyai]

17 hours ago, poohy said:

If not, its  time to rest in UK for a few months and get the benefits of NHS driving licence etc..basically become resident there again

 

Good luck getting anything out of the NHS at present. My sister has a heart problem and was due to have it seen to back in May. Then along came Covid and they have put off her appointment indefinitely.

A nursing friend reckons they are expecting a worsening situation during winter and are gearing up for that. Anything else is on hold.

[JackThompson]

 

 

2 hours ago, whiteman said:

the sky is falling get the right visa

He does.  So do I.  Covid rules are preventing us from getting another one, and/or following the terms of the one we have. 

 

Extensions are not possible for many of us WITH the required-income, because Immigration is corrupt and put us in the "Pay Us Off or we Crush Your Family" agent-queue.

 

3 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Agree...the presence of these foreigners in Thailand is basically illegal...it's too bad they have to learn the hard way.

Define "illegal".  The MFA has been breaking the law all these years by issuing those Visas based on having Thai family?  Just because the folks at Imm don't like their Extortion-Racket being avoided, doesn't make something "illegal." 

 

Quite the contrary - WE were doing the LEGAL move.  The agent-users, whom Immigration Loves, were the ones taking part in illegal-activity.

 

3 hours ago, connda said:

Xenophobes are worst.

I think the xenophobia-bit is just cover for the corrupt-greed racket - a way to provide cover for what they do.  No one willing to pay them off has any problem.  In fact, cheaper to pay them off for retirement-based than family-based, since they don't have your loved ones to use as leverage to extort you.

[JackThompson]

 

3 hours ago, ICELANDMAN said:

I don't know of any country in Asia that welcomes immigrants with no money apart from Europe which is a case of the mentally ill.
These friends of yours knew the risk they were running, now crying tears doesn't move anyone.

PI, Myanmar, Malaysia, Vietnam - do any kick out spouses of their citizens based on money?  And here, they only do it if the foreigner is the male.
 

2 hours ago, nightfox said:

... That would mean using an fixer agent like I and many others did to secure your 12 month extension or leave Thailand. Many guys realize it will cost more to buy a ticket to leave Thailand and go back to your home country then pay the agent fee which is 25k+. 
 

All I can say the agents are doing a roaring trade these days.

It's 35K+ in Bangkok.  Comparing that extortion to the insane quantine options doesn't make the extortion a better deal - just easier for Immigration to Extort.

 

3 hours ago, tonray said:

Miss income from those who don't have savings or income to qualify for an extension  ?

Income which Immigration will accept w/o a massive-payoff?   Yes.  Multiples of the income doesn't help - even if proven by international-transfers - as I found out - if it is not a "state pension."

 

2 hours ago, checkered flag said:

Need to use money in the bank option then. If you bought a house and car you made the wrong choices.

Only because Immigration don't recognize those investments - especially the house or condo - as valid.  Too many more would be able to avoid Agent-Extortion, if they did. 

 

2 hours ago, treetops said:

Yet they don't have the brains to consolidate that income somewhere and bring it in to Thailand in a way that does satisfy IO requirements?

It's not a matter of consolidation.  Unless you can show a foreign-pension statement showing X/mo, your application is rejected, unless accompanied by 35K+ Baht (in Bangkok - some report 25K elsewhere, if based on children vs wife). 

I had bank-statements showing far more, and never below 40K - both from foreign-income a year ago, and Thai-income w/ work-permit this year.  It Did Not Matter.  "Payoff via Agent" or Forget It.

[Tanoshi]

31 minutes ago, trucking said:

No , not really. Extensions are not the correct way to go if you intend to live here full time. 

Extensions are permits allowing a 'stay' of 12 months, unlike the Non O ME Visa which allows 'visits' of 90 days at a time.

 

34 minutes ago, trucking said:

The correct visa to apply for is residency.

Again not Visas, but permits.

Nothing permanent about residency, you still need re-entry permits the same as extensions if you intend to leave and return. It has it's advantages, but difficult to meet the requirements for those who came to Thailand to retire and are past their working years.

Citizenship is the only status where your free of Immigration control.

 

46 minutes ago, trucking said:

People extending year in year out are just the same as visa runners. No better or worse. Using a loophole in the law for convenience. 

No they are not, one is to temporary stay, one is to temporary visit.

Your either applying to extend your temporary permission of stay annually at a local Immigration office, subject to meeting the financial requirements, OR, applying for a short term visit Visa from a Thai Embassy/Consulate. (Non Imm O ME).

It's the 'financials' to obtain the annual extensions that are the issue for most since they cannot do borders runs.

 

1 hour ago, trucking said:

Personally , that doesn't bother me but the Thai Visa  holier than thou schadenfreude brigade just love to see others not doing as they do suffer . What possible pleasure they derive from this I cannot imagine. Very sad.

I've seen very little 'gloating' over the unfortunate situation certain foreigners are facing.

In fact the opposite with experienced members posting options and requirements to help them stay.

[JackThompson]

 

2 hours ago, SteveK said:

No. In the UK, you just do nothing, stay illegally, work illegally and nothing ever happens. If anyone says anything, just call them a racist. Throw your passport away because if they can't find it they won't deport you. If you get caught, walk back from the police station to the restaurant and carry on working.

Same in the USA - only you won't even get to the police-station, because the local-cops are ordered not to ask you about your "Immigration Status." 

And if you break other laws (like DWI + Negligent-Homicide) and get arrested, just tell the judge you are illegal.  They will reduce the charges below felony, so you won't get put on a deport-list - while citizens will get the book thrown at them and "do the time."

 

2 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

At least Thailand  have given people with short stay visas a free amnesty, the UK haven't. My wife's cousin has been there for nearly a year now on a tourist visa. Thai border lockdown occurred just before her six months were up and, she says, she can't get back yet. Don't know how true that is but she certainly hasn't been given a legal amnesty to stay longer. 

Let us know when/if they lock her up in a fetid place like the IDC.  I'm betting she doesn't even get fined, as long as she reports her situation.

Edited September 3, 2020 by JackThompson

[DaweiBeach]

3 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

I don't wish to sound nasty here, but if people have made a home here, have a wife and children that they love so much, then surely it would have been responsible to get the correct visas for long term stay.

 

Of people can not afford the correct visas then it's highly irresponsible to start a family and raise children here. 

 

 

So almost all Thai fathers are irresponsible then? Or does this only apply to foreigners for some reason? 

[Why Me]

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

PI, Myanmar, Malaysia, Vietnam - do any kick out spouses of their citizens based on money?  And here, they only do it if the foreigner is the male.

Nobody's being kicked out based on money but based on not having the proper visa. And, yes, certain long-stay visas have financial requirements which is perfectly sensible to see if you can make ends meet here (Malaysia, from your list, has even higher regs for retirement than Thailand).

 

This is not a problem for Einstein. Get your finances sorted before plonking down in a country where you aren't a citizen. And accept that as non-citizen you are a guest subject to their laws, which can change. No, you aren't entitled to anything, even if you've lived here 20 years and fathered multiple children.

 

36 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It's 35K+ in Bangkok.  Comparing that extortion to the insane quantine options doesn't make the extortion a better deal - just easier for Immigration to Extort.

Agents, payoffs? Part of living here. You know that, I know that, every expat and every Thai knows that too. Like they say, When in Rome do as Romans.

 

Don't whine if you hit a wall with your eyes open.

[david555]

2 minutes ago, DaweiBeach said:

So almost all Thai fathers are irresponsible then? Or does this only apply to foreigners for some reason? 

The number of young single mothers is astonishing anyway in Pattaya …...

[Why Me]

9 minutes ago, DaweiBeach said:

So almost all Thai fathers are irresponsible then? Or does this only apply to foreigners for some reason? 

Jeez, are you really that stupid? Thais are citizens. Foreigners aren't.

 

A Thai becomes destitute or deadbeat they face Thai laws and/or receive Govt. care. You? Get kicked out.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Why Me

[SEtonal]

https://www.thephuketnews.com/tourists-to-get-unlimited-30-day-extensions-to-stay-after-visa-amnesty-ends-77201.php

 

 

[JackThompson]

 

3 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

It always amazes me the number of people who don't follow the law and resort to illegal means to remain in Thailand. Then they inevitably post about how unfair it all is when they are eventually caught out.

Yes, it always amazes me we live in a country where those using Agents to get Immigration's Extensions are treated VIP, while honest-applicants often get shafted. 

I'm sure you weren't referring to all those using LEGAL MFA Visas, who were NOT breaking the law with payoffs, as Corrupt-Immigration prefers they do

 

2 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

If it was legal, Thai Immigration would facilitate the extension of these stays in-country during this pandemic situation. The fact it looks like they won't shows you what they think of the practice.

Yes, Immigration HATED our avoiding committing a felony, by paying them off via their agent-partners.

 

3 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Of people can not afford the correct visas then it's highly irresponsible to start a family and raise children here. 

By "afford" - you mean the annual agent-payout immigration prefers?  Only a 30-second picture-taking, if you go that route - no bedroom-pictures to provide, no home-visit + closet-examination, no "something else" added to the published-list over and over, with each attempt to apply (every year), and no financials to meet either.  But if you have well over the mo-income, but not a "state pension," forget it - you have to become a participant in a Felony to stay.

 

The "problem" was not our "irresponsibility" - providing much better for our families here than the vast majority of locals - it was believing the stories here about how "simple" it was - being fooled into thinking Immigration would follow the law/guidelines - or their greed would not drive them to make it harder and harder to qualify for an extension. 

 

We "irresponsible" folks should have consulted an oracle, who would have warned us about all the ways they would block our legit applications in the future - or that Covid would give them this opportunity to cut us off from LEGAL Visas from the payoff-free MFA.

 

3 hours ago, RubbaJohnny said:

All countries wish to discourage illegals, criminal, overstayers or those taking away jobs from locals, these are a different character who deserve our compassion if not approval of prior foolhardy or generous choices.

Those are no problem here - they just use agents.  Thais have to work blue-collar jobs overseas, because Immigration hands out 'work visas' the desperate, who are willing live in squalor.  The real motto is: "Bad Guys and Cheap Labor Welcome."

 

3 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

The rule requiring the need to show twelve months Transfers from an overseas source has been in existence since January 2019. 

That only applies to those who already have 1-year extensions.  All others only need to show 2 mo, according to the law. 

No law says if you work here, you have to re-prove your work-permit - just show you paid taxes on the income.  
No law says a proven-income "doesn't count" unless a State-Pension.
But Immigraiton don't care about the law. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by JackThompson

[steven100]

4 hours ago, connda said:

Because this country is run by the heartless who have no compassion for the sanctity of the family

nonsense ..... what do you expect the government to do ... just wave the immigration requirements and let all those ME Non O's  stay long term just because COVID reared it's ugly head. 

It's got nothing to do with sanctity of the family ..... it's the law. 

[JackThompson]

 

2 hours ago, Why Me said:

I get the sense some Westerners got into trouble from forming the mildly presumptuous/racist attitude at some point, This is a corrupt third world country so with my white skin I'll always be able to find a way.

It is immigration creating that stereotype by forcing those who fully-qualify for an extension, per the law, to use agents.  Don't try to turn their extortion-scams back on us.  We didn't create this system, and are not the "racists" in this equation. 

 

The resemblance of their behavior to those of undeveloped thug-run nations does contribute to the "3rd World" perception.  It's a shame, because the Thai people deserve better.