Many farang must leave their families, friends and Thailand

[Pattaya Spotter]

7 minutes ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

Sakon Nakorn immigration is saying they will likely allow back-to-back 60 extensions for those unable to do border bounces and are on non-O multi entry visas. I'm sure more clarity will emerge in the coming weeks, before the end of the amnesty. 

I foresee a stampede of foreigners moving to the picturesce province of Sakon Nakorn in the near future.

[Pattaya Spotter]

7 minutes ago, Why Me said:

I get the sense some Westerners got into trouble from forming the mildly presumptuous/racist attitude at some point, This is a corrupt third world country so with my white skin I'll always be able to find a way.

There's that "white priviledge" rearing its ugly head again.

[Why Me]

3 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

If that was true, why would we need lawyers?  Their entire job is to argue about legal matters that are not black and white.

We're not talking murder/theft/robbery here. Only immigration. Where there is no gray zone. Your passport and papers will say yes/no if you're legal.

[Hi Tea]

2 hours ago, connda said:

Virtually every other nation in the world recognizes the value and sanctity of The Family and as such have laws in place allowing those who are married to their citizens to eventually gain at least residency.

Thailand gives you that opportunity also if you can meet the requirements, just like all those other countries.

[trucking]

16 hours ago, fishtank said:

As Sheryl said, Non O Imm Visas are not designed so that people can live here full time.

If you want to live here full time get the correct Visa/Extension instead of finding loopholes.

 

No , not really. Extensions are not the correct way to go if you intend to live here full time. 

 

The correct visa to apply for is residency.

 

https://immigrationbangkok.com/thai-permanent-residence-visa/

 

People extending year in year out are just the same as visa runners. No better or worse. Using a loophole in the law for convenience. 

 

Personally , that doesn't bother me but the Thai Visa  holier than thou schadenfreude brigade just love to see others not doing as they do suffer . What possible pleasure they derive from this I cannot imagine. Very sad.

[Seik]

13 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

If that was true, why would we need lawyers?  Their entire job is to argue about legal matters that are not black and white.

LEGALLY there is nothing in between legal and illegal. Any given behavior will either be one or the other.

If the LEGALITY of a behavior is the litigious question in court, let's take your lawyers example: we'll have 2 lawyers arguing about the legality of a certain behavior: the defendant's lawyer will argue his client's behavior was legal, the accuser or the state will argue it was illegal. The judge has a 2 options choice: declare the defendant's action was legal OR that it was illegal. Black and white like I said. A judge will never pronounce something as "mildly illegal".

Edited September 3, 2020 by Seik

[RubbaJohnny]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

There's that "white priviledge" rearing its ugly head again.

that "white privi ledge"  may be the balcony of your toilet?

 

White privilege is for crammer nasties off coarse!

[Mapguy]

1 hour ago, RubbaJohnny said:

We can agree to differ on what people should, could or might have done.

For those whose lives will be ruined I have sympathy , and eve more for their children.

 

I am fortunate and have funds and choice of 60 days , married or retiremant according to my office.

However some with 4 times local job here say 60,ooo baht a month may not be able to save much if live like me or have a lot of mouths to feed, kids,grandkids, in-laws , wife's parents, extended family, hangers on  etc who have all come to depend increasingly on the foreigner, I know I'm not the only one.I recall a charity worker in London a "chugger , charity jogger in the street asking if I'd like to sponsor a family in the developin world !!

There are 11 people who would notice if I turned off the tap.

Both rich Thais and foreigners seem to look down on the poor as if its karma or a contagious disease.

Even if one child is to lose contact with a parent it is a loss.

While our hosts may do as they please change or interpret their laws to be also depsised by richer foreigners seems odd.

One day there may a feeling that all foreigners must leave as has happened many ties in history and when no amount in the bank could save you so don't be too smug.

 

How many peope in your country have instant access to 800k ? Well if your his so all, I did but wss not typical.

I read most have credit card and non mortage debts in $1000s in Uk Ireand Oz USA most are maxxing out the cards . A EU paper said most people don't even have 1000 life savings even before Covid and mass loss of earning.

I hope a way is found to allow parents to stay, single folks on holiday sure they can change their holiday destination, the nomads maynot be happy but won't be losing a family .

 

I think the long term solutions could be: However these a very low priority in a nation with many othe priorities.

 

A route to PR for those without income here

Allow married to contribute to local government health insurance , possibly at premium to locals.so no need for ovesreas insurance for those wih no overseas home.

 

Finally a win win for the government which 1000% cuts out the agents have applicants deposit Money with Immigration Account , removes all the checks , letters, timewasting,seasoning . Just as my Citibank or Kasikorn balance is on my phone or laptop the IMmi can see immediately .

Of course need not be only account can still have private banking

If they want the 400k or 800k in case of unpaid hospital bills keep all the days you are in the country, refund at exit.Or like teh Elite scheme pay as you go .

 

 

 

Clearly not a financial planner!

 

[RubbaJohnny]

1 minute ago, Seik said:

LEGALLY there is nothing in between legal and illegal. Any given behavior will either be one or the other.

If the LEGALITY of an action is the litigious question in court, let's take your lawyers example: we'll have 2 lawyers arguing about the legality of a certain behavior: the defendant's lawyer will argue his client's behavior was legal, the accuser or the state will argue it was illegal. The judge has a 2 options choice: declare the defendant's action was legal OR was illegal. Black and white like I said.

Well there are 2 sorts of people, those who think there only 2 alternatives and thise who don't.

You maycome from a stereotypical system of jurisprudence. Scotland's courts have 3 possible outcomes.

 

There is a wonderful irony with all sorts of monism saying follow the rule while the authorities encourage the very chicanery via agents to invalidate strict equal implementation. Red BS means thsoe with money can get away with anything. 

People who meet all legal requirments have been declned.Some places such a regie is called our thing and anyone who has spent any period in Mexico/Calabria/most of the Middle East  will completely see through the charade, money talks and justice is how much you can afford.

[david555]

51 minutes ago, Seik said:

Indeed. What is legal and what is not is a completely black and white matter. Something is either legal or it is illegal. There is no such thing as "basically illegal" or "pretty much illegal" or "sort of illegal". 

If truly there is a "loophole" in the law being exploited, there is nothing illegal to it, it is up to the lawmaker to make that behaviour illegal, until then it is as legal as anything else.

But still it is giving the problem now for those who used it , and now by unexpected circumstances , calling it  legally or illegal that doesn't matter in this  anymore .

Just a too unsecure planning for their situations.

I would also liked more other use for my 800+ K on Thai banks … but choose for certainty  in my immigration status more than taking a gamble by this loophole . 

 

Long time on Suvarnabhumi I.O.'s are pushing  those loophole users to take the correct visa for their situation ,many rapports long time on TVF before !

Edited September 3, 2020 by david555

[Why Me]

2 minutes ago, trucking said:

People extending year in year out are just the same as visa runners.

You are free to think they are the same. Except there is no restriction on extending as many years as you like and no official statements discouraging their use for long stay. Which is opposite the case for visa runners.

 

You deal with your situation, I'll deal with mine.

[Hi Tea]

1 hour ago, Phillip9 said:

If you are married, I would bet there are lots of countries in Asia that have no income requirement.  Philippines for one, I know has no income or proof of money requirement if you are married to a filipina.

Yes but the big downside is that you'd have to live in the Philippines.  

 

Just because the Philippines has no income requirements doesn't mean that every other country has to follow suit.

[RubbaJohnny]

6 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Clearly not a financial planner!

 

Better to be a family planner, if secure family then fine for me.

My point is not the feckless farang , the kids who may lose a parent, we may blame the adult but these last minute notifications in the Covid climate seem the very opposite of compassion a core value of Buddhism

[trucking]

14 hours ago, Why Me said:

You are free to think they are the same. Except there is no restriction on extending as many years as you like and no official statements discouraging their use for long stay. Which is opposite the case for visa runners.

 

Do you have any official government links to support your views ?

 

 

[Maestro]

Removed some abusive posts, a profane post, and the replies to them.

 

[Why Me]

2 minutes ago, trucking said:

9 minutes ago, Why Me said:

You are free to think they are the same. Except there is no restriction on extending as many years as you like and no official statements discouraging their use for long stay. Which is opposite the case for visa runners.

 

Do you have any official government links to support your views ?

That extensions are fine forever? There has been no official announcement to the effect they are not. Or we would surely heard of it on TV if there was something to the effect of X extensions and no more.

 

As for visa runners it's been on the airwaves a long time that the government doesn't care for them miserable gits.

[Why Me]

6 minutes ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

I'm gone when shes gone, I'm just here for a few more years. I am a single parent, it's pretty hard, I dont know if you have even had the experience of having a child and if you have, did you raise her/ him yourself? 

I admire your commitment as a parent. You're evidently a great dad. Having said that, Thailand owes you nothing. But the country of your citizenship does. I assume you are a Westerner, probably from a wealthy country. Why don't you take your daughter home with you where, in fact, her life might turn out better?

[Puchaiyank]

Thai immigration laws follow the baht...compassion not!

[trucking]

14 hours ago, Why Me said:

That extensions are fine forever? There has been no official announcement to the effect they are not. Or we would surely heard of it on TV if there was something to the effect of X extensions and no more.

 

As for visa runners it's been on the airwaves a long time that the government doesn't care for them miserable gits.

 

So I'll take that as a no.

 

You are just expressing your personal feeling , and displaying your animosity towards others doing things differently to yourself.

[bangkokbonecollector]

4 minutes ago, Why Me said:

I admire your commitment as a parent. You're evidently a great dad. Having said that, Thailand owes you nothing. But the country of your citizenship does. I assume you are a Westerner, probably from a wealthy country. Why don't you take your daughter home with you where, in fact, her life might turn out better?

We tried that last year, she didn't like it, shes Thai, she loves Thailand...hopefully she will get a scholarship to a Japanese uni as shes majoring in languages and specifically Japanese. Thanks, it's been a long road.

Edited September 3, 2020 by bangkokbonecollector

[Hi Tea]

12 minutes ago, trucking said:

20 minutes ago, Why Me said:

You are free to think they are the same. Except there is no restriction on extending as many years as you like and no official statements discouraging their use for long stay. Which is opposite the case for visa runners.

 

Do you have any official government links to support your views ?

What he said is factual, not just "his view".  He doesn't need to show any "government links" to support that statement.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Hi Tea

[Why Me]

2 minutes ago, trucking said:

 

So I'll take that as a no.

 

You are just expressing your personal feeling , and displaying your animosity towards others doing things differently to yourself.

I just told you the situation with extensions as they have been for decades and are today. Will they be the same tomorrow? I don't know. Nobody does.

 

Not animosity toward visa runners. Just no sympathy. And I am not sure why I should have any for someone who doesn't have the means to live the life he desires.

[trucking]

14 hours ago, Hi Tea said:

What he said is factual, not just "his view".  He doesn't need to show any "government links" to support that statement.

So...just your view as well.

 

Unless you work in immigration and can support your view with written evidence it will remain ......just a view. 

[Why Me]

3 minutes ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

We tried that last year, she didn't like it, shes Thai, she loves Thailand...hopefully she will get a scholarship to a Japanese uni. Thanks, it's been a long road.

All I can say is your girl is lucky to have you as her dad and I wish both of you the best. As they the law is an ass but it is the law.

[Hi Tea]

5 minutes ago, trucking said:

10 minutes ago, Why Me said:

That extensions are fine forever? There has been no official announcement to the effect they are not. Or we would surely heard of it on TV if there was something to the effect of X extensions and no more.

 

As for visa runners it's been on the airwaves a long time that the government doesn't care for them miserable gits.

 

So I'll take that as a no.

 

You are just expressing your personal feeling

Er, no, he's not, he's stating fact.

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

If you are married, I would bet there are lots of countries in Asia that have no income requirement.  Philippines for one, I know has no income or proof of money requirement if you are married to a filipina.

What´s your point? Do you mean that you are not going to need any money, just because there is no requirement to show money for getting a visa? You will still need money to live, right? What´s the problem with showing them them? I think Thailand has a great system, when it comes to this. Only 400k baht for a family for a full year. That´s not enough for a year. The thing it does, though, is to create some kind of safety for both the foreigner and the Thai family that is connected to him.

Or are you just saying that you want to move to the philippines?

[trucking]

14 hours ago, Why Me said:

I just told you the situation with extensions as they have been for decades and are today. Will they be the same tomorrow? I don't know. Nobody does.

 

Not animosity toward visa runners. Just no sympathy. And I am not sure why I should have any for someone who doesn't have the means to live the life he desires.

 

Why do you suppose they don't have the means to live the life they desire ?

 

Some visa runners do so because they can't make the financials , that is true, but by no means all.

I have the means to apply for a retirement visa but I certainly do not intend to tie up 800,000 baht in a low interest Thai bank account.

[from the home of CC]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

While there are flaws in your arguments what you point out is ultimately heart breaking and should garner a great deal of sympathy. 

 

This morning I watched a video of a father reunited with his children, arriving home after ASQ. It reminded me of how devastatingly torn apart I was when I couldn’t get home to my family. It reminded me of that day I was reunited with my Wife and Son.

 

I was one of the fortunate ones able to return to Thailand with a Non-Imm Type O Visa (based on marriage to a Thai) and secured a repatriation flight. But there is potentially a great many people slipping through the gaps, unable to get back to their families and loved ones and friends. 

 

This is devastating and more could be done to help people. The hard line and restrictions unnecessary. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

imo Thai public health comes first..

[bangkokbonecollector]

Let's clarify something here. Being on a Non-immi O multi before they stopped and now single, leaving the country every 90days or getting an extension and then leaving is completely and utterly within the law and uses of this type of visa. I only thing that can be problematic is this very situation. How in the hell can anyone and did anyone foresee this situation???!!

[trucking]

14 hours ago, Hi Tea said:

Er, no, he's not, he's stating fact.

 

Which neither of you can corroborate.