Many farang must leave their families, friends and Thailand

[mighty]

16 minutes ago, Daithi85 said:

I wonder how Thai citizens overseas are getting on,are they also been held to Ransome and been left with no choice but to pay extortionate amounts of money to visa agents??,,,I highly doubt it 

In the UK its same. If your visa runs out you have to leave (if you cannot renew in country)

[vinny41]

51 minutes ago, connda said:

Because this country is run by the heartless who have no compassion for the sanctity of the family, and although they call themselves "Buddhists", those who make laws affecting Thai/Foreign families unit lack even a thimble-full of compassion.  Virtually every other nation in the world recognizes the value and sanctity of The Family and as such have laws in place allowing those who are married to their citizens to eventually gain at least residency.

Thai lawmakers are an embarrassment to humanity and should be ashamed to claim that they follow the teaching of the compassionate Buddha.  Buddhists in name only at best.  Xenophobes are worst.

 

 

 

Clearly you are not aware of the minimum income rule in the UK 

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/feb/22/supreme-court-backs-minimum-income-rule-for-non-european-spouses

[Pattaya Spotter]

23 minutes ago, nightfox said:

Many guys in Thailand on a Non O multi based on marriage including me I would think have common sense to realize that time is ticking as they have to extend to permission of stay or leave Thailand. Many of those guys dont have the 400k and majority of IO wont accept the 40k 2 month income from abroad method.

 

That would mean using an fixer agent like I and many others did to secure your 12 month extension or leave Thailand. Many guys realize it will cost more to buy a ticket to leave Thailand and go back to your home country then pay the agent fee which is 25k+. 
 

All I can say the agents are doing a roaring trade these days.

It always amazes me the number of people who don't follow the law and resort to illegal means to remain in Thailand. Then they inevitably post about how unfair it all is when they are eventually caught out.

[Keyser Soze666]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

While there are flaws in your arguments what you point out is ultimately heart breaking and should garner a great deal of sympathy. 

 

This morning I watched a video of a father reunited with his children, arriving home after ASQ. It reminded me of how devastatingly torn apart I was when I couldn’t get home to my family. It reminded me of that day I was reunited with my Wife and Son.

 

I was one of the fortunate ones able to return to Thailand with a Non-Imm Type O Visa (based on marriage to a Thai) and secured a repatriation flight. But there is potentially a great many people slipping through the gaps, unable to get back to their families and loved ones and friends. 

 

This is devastating and more could be done to help people. The hard line and restrictions unnecessary. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was you wallowing up writing that? 

[SteveK]

5 minutes ago, mighty said:

In the UK its same. If your visa runs out you have to leave (if you cannot renew in country)

No. In the UK, you just do nothing, stay illegally, work illegally and nothing ever happens. If anyone says anything, just call them a racist. Throw your passport away because if they can't find it they won't deport you. If you get caught, walk back from the police station to the restaurant and carry on working.

Edited September 3, 2020 by SteveK

[RubbaJohnny]

We can agree to differ on what people should, could or might have done.

For those whose lives will be ruined I have sympathy , and eve more for their children.

 

I am fortunate and have funds and choice of 60 days , married or retiremant according to my office.

However some with 4 times local job here say 60,ooo baht a month may not be able to save much if live like me or have a lot of mouths to feed, kids,grandkids, in-laws , wife's parents, extended family, hangers on  etc who have all come to depend increasingly on the foreigner, I know I'm not the only one.I recall a charity worker in London a "chugger , charity jogger in the street asking if I'd like to sponsor a family in the developin world !!

There are 11 people who would notice if I turned off the tap.

Both rich Thais and foreigners seem to look down on the poor as if its karma or a contagious disease.

Even if one child is to lose contact with a parent it is a loss.

While our hosts may do as they please change or interpret their laws to be also depsised by richer foreigners seems odd.

One day there may a feeling that all foreigners must leave as has happened many ties in history and when no amount in the bank could save you so don't be too smug.

 

How many peope in your country have instant access to 800k ? Well if your his so all, I did but wss not typical.

I read most have credit card and non mortage debts in $1000s in Uk Ireand Oz USA most are maxxing out the cards . A EU paper said most people don't even have 1000 life savings even before Covid and mass loss of earning.

I hope a way is found to allow parents to stay, single folks on holiday sure they can change their holiday destination, the nomads maynot be happy but won't be losing a family .

 

I think the long term solutions could be: However these a very low priority in a nation with many othe priorities.

 

A route to PR for those without income here

Allow married to contribute to local government health insurance , possibly at premium to locals.so no need for ovesreas insurance for those wih no overseas home.

 

Finally a win win for the government which 1000% cuts out the agents have applicants deposit Money with Immigration Account , removes all the checks , letters, timewasting,seasoning . Just as my Citibank or Kasikorn balance is on my phone or laptop the IMmi can see immediately .

Of course need not be only account can still have private banking

If they want the 400k or 800k in case of unpaid hospital bills keep all the days you are in the country, refund at exit.Or like teh Elite scheme pay as you go .

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by RubbaJohnny

[jak2002003]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

While there are flaws in your arguments what you point out is ultimately heart breaking and should garner a great deal of sympathy. 

 

This morning I watched a video of a father reunited with his children, arriving home after ASQ. It reminded me of how devastatingly torn apart I was when I couldn’t get home to my family. It reminded me of that day I was reunited with my Wife and Son.

 

I was one of the fortunate ones able to return to Thailand with a Non-Imm Type O Visa (based on marriage to a Thai) and secured a repatriation flight. But there is potentially a great many people slipping through the gaps, unable to get back to their families and loved ones and friends. 

 

This is devastating and more could be done to help people. The hard line and restrictions unnecessary. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't wish to sound nasty here, but if people have made a home here, have a wife and children that they love so much, then surely it would have been responsible to get the correct visas for long term stay.

 

Of people can not afford the correct visas then it's highly irresponsible to start a family and raise children here. 

 

 

[Barney13]

People using this method may have 400k, but we’re given one week to import it for 2 months seasoning, impossible in my case. They could show 12 months income, but were not given this requirement 12 months in advance. All the posters here saying ‘illegal’ this and that are just stupid.

[RubbaJohnny]

16 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

I don't wish to sound nasty here, but if people have made a home here, have a wife and children that they love so much, then surely it would have been responsible to get the correct visas for long term stay.

 

Of people can not afford the correct visas then it's highly irresponsible to start a family and raise children here. 

 

 

Yes some are highly irresponsible.When I first came , like teh local kids and Police I used to ride my motorcycle with no helmet , I don't now.

Well we can all take a moral stance on actions of adults , some may well have been imprudent, you are entitled to your opinion, not sure what it contributes to mock the afflicted.

 

Some people became poor due to loss of income, theft, divorces, accidents etc, 

Should their children be punished I'm thinking of honest decent people who spent their life savings building homes here 5-10 million bahts locally , I real all in commitement to Thailand and wife,all in wifes name .There 80k a month pension enough to live well and self insure but are now punished,

Even if dad gambled drank it all away should the family be made to be doubly punished already poor, and will maybe use all availble capital on a 100k + round trip /quarantine, or not be able to return at all.

I don't like to kick a dog when down or sneer at those less fortunate.

 

If these folks are forced out I think newcomers will rent, not invest  , take wives to a nation that is more welcoming.

The regime is encouraging guys to rent a home/women and always have your suitcase packed a bootlegger existence of occuoying armies over history where teh offspring are left as they bail out.

 

In any sane country if many parents were all to leave the country and stop supporting their families they would be castigated by government and society , here its sanity in reverse.

All countries wish to discourage illegals, criminal, overstayers or those taking away jobs from locals, these are a different character who deserve our compassion if not approval of prior foolhardy or generous choices.

I hope those who mock them never have their family broken needlessly.

Edited September 3, 2020 by RubbaJohnny

[john terry1001]

3 minutes ago, Barney13 said:

People using this method may have 400k, but we’re given one week to import it for 2 months seasoning, impossible in my case. They could show 12 months income, but were not given this requirement 12 months in advance. All the posters here saying ‘illegal’ this and that are just stupid.

The 400k, seasoned for two months, rule has been in existence for several years. 

 

The rule requiring the need to show twelve months Transfers from an overseas source has been in existence since January 2019. 

 

Please don't try to say you didn't have enough time to complete either. The only thing you didn't do is plan ahead.

[tubby johnson]

Those caught in limbo if the amnesty isn't extended will resort to visa agents. There's always a way out.

[Why Me]

Jeez, the financial requirements and visa rules to stay in this country have been about the same for decades. And after two weeks here you figure out the cost of living and what it'll take to eat and rent.

 

So, you can't plead either ignorance or surprise. And falling in love with Ploy who looked so pretty posing at the top of a pole in Playskool and wanting to make her happy with a house doesn't count at Changwattana. Nor does popping kids you can't afford and then wailing about separation.

 

Get your own act together before you blame others for your plight.

[CorpusChristie]

15 minutes ago, tubby johnson said:

Those caught in limbo if the amnesty isn't extended will resort to visa agents. There's always a way out.

They have missed the deadline ,as they take 3-4 weeks to process 

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Agree...the presence of these foreigners in Thailand is basically illegal...it's too bad they have to learn the hard way.

It is not illegal.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Agree...the presence of these foreigners in Thailand is basically illegal...it's too bad they have to learn the hard way.

 

it is not illegal.  It is  making use of a perfectly legal loophole to avoid meeting financial requirements.  People are within their rights to do that, but should not  expect the government to make special arrangements to enable it. If anything, the government is more likely to sooner or later close that loophole.

[Why Me]

5 minutes ago, Seik said:

start a family in Thailand, has the proper income, and further down the road has a catastrophic event in his life that puts him below the requirements,

That requirement is 400k in the bank for crying out aloud. Set that aside and do what you please. If you can't afford to keep a lumpsum 400k intact you've got a bigger problem nothing to do with family or imm laws.

[Seik]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

It is not illegal.

Indeed. What is legal and what is not is a completely black and white matter. Something is either legal or it is illegal. There is no such thing as "basically illegal" or "pretty much illegal" or "sort of illegal". 

If truly there is a "loophole" in the law being exploited, there is nothing illegal to it, it is up to the lawmaker to make that behaviour illegal, until then it is as legal as anything else.

[tgeezer]

There has not been a large cull of the worlds population since Stalin, Hitler and Mao plus a few minor players, for seventy years.  Those of us who have benefitted from those events have to be prepared to face the possibility that things are going to have to change. The COVID scam is just part of the whole pathetic attempt to insulate the haves from the problem of overpopulation and former haves will be come have nots relatively speaking.   <deleted> rolls downhill and it is rolling onto those of us who managed before but who haven't enough to maintain that lifestyle now. My five month winters in Thailand are over for now and I must face the prospect of never being able to visit again. My £20,000 in the bank in Bangkok probably won't buy a loaf of bread by the time I manage to get it but that is a minor thing if I am reduced to burning the piano come winter.  Those living in Thailand whose circumstances have rendered them economic refugees similar to the majority who are invading Europe now, will have to play dumb and allow Thais to work out how they are going to live, the UN can tell them how that is done. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by tgeezer

[Pattaya Spotter]

5 minutes ago, Sujo said:

It is not illegal.

"Basically illegal."

[Seik]

1 minute ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

"Basically illegal."

Please read my comment above. "Basically illegal" is a notion that makes 0 sense.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Seik

[Pattaya Spotter]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

it is not illegal.  It is  making use of a perfectly legal loophole to avoid meeting financial requirements.  People are within their rights to do that, but should not  expect the government to make special arrangements to enable it. If anything, the government is more likely to sooner or later close that loophole.

"Basically illegal"...quasi-illegal...quasi-legal...call it what you want. It's not a very solid foundation for a long-stay in Thailand (as they are now finding out).

[Pattaya Spotter]

4 minutes ago, Seik said:

Indeed. What is legal and what is not is a completely black and white matter. Something is either legal or it is illegal. There is no such thing as "basically illegal" or "pretty much illegal" or "sort of illegal". 

If truly there is a "loophole" in the law being exploited, there is nothing illegal to it, it is up to the lawmaker to make that behaviour illegal, until then it is as legal as anything else.

If it was legal, Thai Immigration would facilitate the extension of these stays in-country during this pandemic situation. The fact it looks like they won't shows you what they think of the practice.

[TheFreqFlyer]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Bear in mind that while there is no law against border runs, ME visas were not designed with the intention that they would be used in that manner; they are designed for people who make multiple separate trips here, with genuine gaps in between, and the "border run" approach is basically a loophole. 

 

So no reason for Immigration to view inability to do border runs as a legitimate problem; from their standpoint people living here full time should get annual extensions of stay.  "I can't afford to meet the financial requirement"  will get zero sympathy as the government does not want retirees here who lack the minimum required funds.

Not just retirees who lack funds but foreigners in general. 

[TheFreqFlyer]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

If it was legal, Thai Immigration would facilitate the extension of these stays in-country during this pandemic situation. The fact it looks like they won't shows you what they think of the practice.

Sakon Nakorn immigration is saying they will likely allow back-to-back 60 extensions for those unable to do border bounces and are on non-O multi entry visas. I'm sure more clarity will emerge in the coming weeks, before the end of the amnesty. 

[Why Me]

I get the sense some Westerners got into trouble from forming the mildly presumptuous/racist attitude at some point, This is a corrupt third world country so with my white skin I'll always be able to find a way.

[TheFreqFlyer]

1 hour ago, Phillip9 said:

If you are married, I would bet there are lots of countries in Asia that have no income requirement.  Philippines for one, I know has no income or proof of money requirement if you are married to a filipina.

That's true but could change in the future. I wouldn't guarantee they'll continue to be so generous indefinitely. 

[Mapguy]

1 hour ago, Nout said:

Yes. Because plenty of people have more than the minimum monthly income requirement in terms of amount of money but not in the unreasonable form that IO requires.  Some people have multiple income streams not consistent with a regular monthly payment but often in excess of  it.

S

Here's sympathy for those who have been skating with minimal finances on thin ice playing with loopholes in visa requirements (which Immigration authorities has long been familiar with and even begun to make border checks and issued warnings about misuse and occasionally denying re-entry because of multiple misuse of the visa. You are now between the proverbial rock and hard place. 

 

There are indeed sources of income that might meet the monthly method requirement but accrue unevenly during a year, but some financial planning would, one would hope, lead to the necessary annual 400k rapidly enough. That amount is certainly not confiscatory.  If people do have trouble making this nut, then they had probably reassess marriage and family in Thailand.  Adding to that financial dilemma the new USD100k COVID-19 insurance requirement (another annual expense), I don't see how people can dodge this problem except to try hiding out in the loo.

[TheFreqFlyer]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Bear in mind that while there is no law against border runs, ME visas were not designed with the intention that they would be used in that manner; they are designed for people who make multiple separate trips here, with genuine gaps in between, and the "border run" approach is basically a loophole. 

 

So no reason for Immigration to view inability to do border runs as a legitimate problem; from their standpoint people living here full time should get annual extensions of stay.  "I can't afford to meet the financial requirement"  will get zero sympathy as the government does not want retirees here who lack the minimum required funds.

I feel that's your interpretation of it, but not that of immigration. I think in future, either they will cull this option, or introduce something a bit more flexible in it's place but with less stringent criteria than the 1-year extension of stay.

 

Immigration officials know very well that people who are either unable to meet the financial requirements or travel a lot anyway (irrespective of their financial situation) like to use this visa option. 

[Phillip9]

24 minutes ago, Seik said:

What is legal and what is not is a completely black and white matter.

If that was true, why would we need lawyers?  Their entire job is to argue about legal matters that are not black and white.

[Hi Tea]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Very relative.

3, for example, is, in essence, not that much;

but is 50% of 6.

It's still just three, i.e next to nothing!