President Trump asked the Proud Boys to 'stand by.' Who are they?

[Chomper Higgot]

51 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Given the undoubted vast amounts of politically motivated fake news, false websites, deliberately misleading and fake MSM news reports etc - how do you know who to believe and who not too?

 

How do you know his belief his wrong and yours is right?

 

Without any silly extreme analogies please. 

“Given the undoubted vast amounts of politically motivated fake news”

 

Not ‘given’ nor ‘undoubted’.

 

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Fun facts:  Go to the Antifa website, and look at their Benefactors:  George Soros, Bill and Malinda Gates, Bill and Hillary Clinton.

There are many of us knowing history who would state we are anti fascists.

[Morch]

57 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No, it's because like all left wingers you apply double standards, hypocrisy and only focus on the bits that suit your rhetoric and agenda. 

 

But most people can see that.

 

You do not speak for most people. You do not know what most people think or see.

Most voters, at least, did not vote for Trump, nor did your notions help the Republicans retain House of Representative majority.

[Morch]

54 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Like the Washington Post and New York Times? 

 

MSM is largely owned by media moguls who want to lean, sometimes very heavily, to their own political agendas and views. And may switch sides when it suits. Mr. Murdoch springs too mind.

 

False reporting of "facts" that support a desired agenda, with little real evidence, seems to have replaced journalistic integrity and professionalism.

 

Given that a free, and unbiased, press is an important component of a free democracy, as is a non politicized independent judiciary, things don't bode well for the future of traditional Western democracy.

 

Both sources you named are biased. The degree to which they are biased can be debated - but as both also get flack from Left wing critics, I doubt that objectively they are quite as extreme as Trump fans try to paint them.

 

Bias, by itself, does not necessarily imply the reporting is not factual - but might apply to interpretation, commentary, Op-Eds, and choice of items covered. All of this does not discredit a media venue in the manner suggested in your posts.

 

Other than in Trump supporters' rants, most of the media sources they abhor are generally accepted and seen as credible (but not infallible). This includes this forum.

 

Notably, again (and again) no viable, realistic, acceptable or reasonable alternative is offered.

[Morch]

47 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why would this be against rules? Most people believe their race is superior in some aspects than others. 

Other people are terrified of being called a racist, probably as they don't know what it means.

 

 

I doubt that you know what most people believe. Both in general, and regarding the opinion you claimed.

 

Considering your recent 'contributions', I don't think you're in much of a position to lecture anyone about "know what it means".

Edited October 1, 2020 by Morch

[Morch]

45 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Correct. 

 

I don't accept corruption, lies, and hypocrisy. Even if it would be politically correct to do so! Let's ignore the historical facts and live in the pretend world of political correct lala.

 

You accept corruption, lies and hypocrisy - so long as they are offered by 'your' side. At the very least, you do not express strong views against such instances or issue the sort of fiery condemnations reserved for those on the other side of the political divide. This could be a matter of what you consider to be corruption, lies and hypocrisy, thus giving the home team a free pass on a lot of stuff.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I doubt that you know what most people believe. Both in general, and regarding the opinion you claimed.

 

Considering your recent 'contributions', I don't think you're in much of a position to lecture anyone about "know what it means".

I've no idea who you are or what you're talking about. 

 

What contributions? What lecturing? 

 

Ready for the ignore list. 

[Chomper Higgot]

53 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why would this be against rules? Most people believe their race is superior in some aspects than others. 

Other people are terrified of being called a racist, probably as they don't know what it means.

 

All racist believe their race superior to others.

 

There’ fixed it for you.

[onthedarkside]

A long series of off-topic and bickering posts, and replies to them, has been removed.

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The article also states that the Proud Boys membership is "multiracial". Do you understand that word?

They're definitely antisemitic  Being white supremacist is not only about hating blacks. Historically hating Jews is the bigger thing. Google Nazis.

 

The pb no jelly are part of 45s street army so no wonder he can't explicitly condemn them.

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

Whether the President of The United States was supporting the Proud Boys or not (or whether he's just so inarticulate he got himself tongue tied yet again), his words hold enough meaning to the point where members of the group posted about the shout out, telling the president: 'We're ready.' Their account on the social media app Telegram also posted: 'Standing down and standing by sir.' 

 

The interesting part though is he had every chance the next day to tell everyone he mispoke and to soundly denounce the Proud Boys but all you get was "I don't know who the Proud Boys are. You'll have to give me a definition because I really don't know who they are. I can only say they have to stand down and let law enforcement do their work.' Not exactly convincing and hardly a denouncement of this or any other extreme group.

 

I'm no fan of Trumps but I don't think he meant to rally the Proud Boys at the debate but his habit of doubling down on mistakes means he's going to have to live with this one for a lot longer than an apology would have provided. And of course, white supremacists are further emboldened by what they see as tacit approval by THE President of the United States.

 

Not good. Not good at all.   

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

There are many of us knowing history who would state we are anti fascists.

Definitely. 

 

Being anti fascist is definitely a good thing but to be fair some of the specific tactics of people that identify as antifa are questionable. 

 

Violence isn't productive now. Probably if the US division advances to more explicit civil war then things would be different.

 

But in that case its obvious the fascists would win. They've got most of the guns.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Jingthing

[earlinclaifornia]

8 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Kind of ironic really. A white supremacy group whose membership is multi-racial. 

Evenkeel, you posted that trump would crush Biden in the debate! I did read at RNC and trump reelection both said he won the debate. How did you feel about trump hitting that crushing blow?

[Phoenix Rising]

When even the sycophants at Fox trash him......

 

' ‘Fox & Friends’ Trashes Trump for Blowing the Debate Over White Supremacists'

 

"President Donald Trump might have choked on his Egg McMuffin on Wednesday when tuning into his favorite morning show.

Fresh from an aggressive debate performance which his campaign chalked up as a victory before it had even happened, Trump most likely tuned into Fox & Friends expecting the kind of sycophantic flattery he’s become accustomed to over the past four years. However, even the president’s pals at Fox thought his debate performance, well, kinda sucked."

Edited October 1, 2020 by Phoenix Rising

[wwest5829]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Definitely. 

 

Being anti fascist is definitely a good thing but to be fair some of the specific tactics of people that identify as antifa are questionable. 

 

Violence isn't productive now. Probably if the US division advances to more explicit civil war then things would be different.

 

But in that case its obvious the fascists would win. They've got most of the guns.

 

 

I agree and apply the same reasoning to some police actions ... hmmm, greater application in regions of the globe today. “ ... and the whole world ends up blind”

[Jingthing]

Treason?

 

 

[Phoenix Rising]

5 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

This from the Trump Administration DHS (but clearly not from Trump himself):

 

[White supremacists present the gravest terror threat to the United States, according to a draft report from the Department of Homeland Security.]

[Russia “probably will be the primary covert foreign influence actor and purveyor of disinformation and misinformation in the Homeland,” the documents also say.]

[None of the drafts POLITICO reviewed referred to a threat from Antifa...]

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/04/white-supremacists-terror-threat-dhs-409236

 

So if you keep repeating Trump's lies, what does that make you?

A base trump supporter.

[Rimmer]

Reported post and reply removed

[mthomsen111]

2 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Fits the psychological profiles of the reasons for inner-city males joining gangs.

Not really. Inner city gangs are mostly about the drug trade. Capitalists.

[wwest5829]

10 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said:

Not really. Inner city gangs are mostly about the drug trade. Capitalists.

The psychological studies I refer to cited a need to belong to and be accepted as a member of a group. That is not to say that many inner city males see that they have a greater chance of earning money through the drug trade than any hope of getting an education in promise of bettering their economic condition.

[pmarlin]

The article is a total lie.  Here the web site https://proudboysusa.com/ and the liberals are upset because they take on groups like antifa and BLM and win. 

[pmarlin]

10 hours ago, simon43 said:

Where does it say that they are a white supremacy group?  The article says "Group members tend to adhere to an ideology that rejects overt white supremacy but embraces chauvinism, according to the ADL."

That came form Biden

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, pmarlin said:

The article is a total lie.  Here the web site https://proudboysusa.com/ and the liberals are upset because they take on groups like antifa and BLM and win. 

So they say something about themselves, therefore it must be true.

[TKDfella]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Given that you (and other Trump supporters) often raise generalized complaints about the media, while at the same time failing to either clearly demonstrate them, or offer acceptable, viable alternatives does not make your point.

 

Let's start with this - is there such an Antifa webpage? Does it include the alleged information? Is there any credible source supporting such allegations? Something to confirm it?

I am not American and have no axe to grind one way or the other but you obviously don't know the history of ANTIFA. It started in the early 1930's (some say 1920's) and was originally in Europe (generally speaking) Originally an anti fascist, largely a far left, movement. Some writers say it was born out of Resistance. After WWII it seemed to splinter and there was not really one specific group but various groups with similar ideals. This is why there speculation and doubt today. ANTIFA appeared in Britain later along side far right groups (hence my earlier post on this thread). When people tell you they are not real it is because they can't pin ANTIFA down to a particular HQ. There are historical books on the subject but beware there are also books that are, shall I say, 'questionable'. The other point is that groups with similar ideals have different names but end up with the same acronym ANTIFA. However, years ago, to my dismay, I found out yet another related group that were most definitely of the 'armed' (in fact 'armed' was their first word in their acronym) variety and their sole purpose is/was to further anarchy and communism. I am not suggesting anything about the riots in the USA but it would be difficult understand why the USA wouldn't have 'chapters', 'houses' etc. of ANTIFA.

I think what your post is based upon is when, 2019 and this year, contradictory remarks being made and that ANTIFA was an ideology not an organisation. Now that is true, up to a point. As I said above they are not an organisation with a definite HQ or centre (although they even had a congress in the early days) but they definitely exist.

Edited October 1, 2020 by TKDfella

[JemJem]

11 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Kind of ironic really. A white supremacy group whose membership is multi-racial. 

They are obviously not white supremacists. 

 

But, they are definitely a fascist group. Fascism doesn't include only white supremacists.

 

Fascism is on the rise in the US. Let's not forget that the Proud Boys are not the only fascist group. There is a wide range of fascist militia. And, the KKK and Aryan Nation still very much exist. 

 

I fear things will get ugly after the election. Of course, the US is not the Middle East, and things won't get out of control, but, many innocent people might be killed or injured by fascists. 

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Evenkeel, you posted that trump would crush Biden in the debate! I did read at RNC and trump reelection both said he won the debate. How did you feel about trump hitting that crushing blow?

I don't know what crushing blow you're talking about. But, thanks for being a fan.

[Dap]

9 hours ago, Credo said:

Well here's 175:   
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-endorsements-law-enforcement

 

 

And from Trumps own favorite Fox News. How bout that EVENKEEL? Good enough for ya? 

[Eric Loh]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

Who are they?

They are a dangerous organization according the federal, state and local law enforcement agencies. Some US agencies label than as white supremacists and extremists and a criminal gang. They are a violent far-right extremist group according to the N California Regional Intel Center. 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/01/proud-boys-white-supremacist-group-law-enforcement-agencies 

Seem any rational person will denounce any extremist groups that use violence to achieve their aims unless you have intention to profit from them. 

[earlinclaifornia]

2 hours ago, pmarlin said:

That came form Biden

rom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  (Redirected from Proud boys)

 

 

Jump to navigationJump to search

Proud Boys
Leader(s)	Enrique Tarrio
Foundation	2016; 4 years ago
Motives	Fight against socialists and progressive political groups[weasel words]
Active regions	United States and Canada
Ideology	Neo-fascism Ultranationalism National conservatism Anti-communism Reactionarism
Political position	Far-right
Major actions	Vandalism, beating of counter-protesters and violent attacks against progressive militants[neutrality is disputed]

The Proud Boys is a far-right^{[1][2][3][4][5]} neo-fascist^[6][7][8][9] male-only organization that promotes and engages in political violence.^{[10][11][12][13]} It is based in the United States and has a presence in Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom.^[

[Knocker33]

12 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

WHY WERE THEY MENTIONED DURING THE DEBATE?

Debate moderator Chris Wallace asked Trump if he was willing to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and tell them to “stand down” and not add to violence during recent protests in U.S. cities such as Portland, Oregon, and Kenosha, Wisconsin.

 

Trump agreed to do that, asking, "Who would you like me to condemn?” Biden interjected: "The Proud Boys."

 

 

Tell that to joe.

You can tell Joe but he will have forgotten by tomorrow