President Trump asked the Proud Boys to 'stand by.' Who are they?

[earlinclaifornia]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I don't know what crushing blow you're talking about. But, thanks for being a fan.

You are welcome. Forgetting one of your posts is reasonable excuse.

[canuckamuck]

8 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

Is this the right-wing PC word for fascist now? ???? 

Sorry please include a subject when making a sentence.

[Morch]

 

@Logosone

 

No, not wrong. Founders and leaders can subscribe to a political philosophy - it does not follow that all the membership identifies with such views, understands them or is even aware of them. Further, other than saying so, one would have to demonstrate just how the organization upholds the tenets of said political philosophy. You have not.

 

As others pointed out, the topic isn't even about Antifa. You're just trying to make it so in order to deflect and derail. Pushing the same nonsense over and over again, regardless of what others post. In this, you exhibit the same 'debate' style showcased by Trump.

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, JemJem said:

They are obviously not white supremacists. 

 

But, they are definitely a fascist group. Fascism doesn't include only white supremacists.

 

Fascism is on the rise in the US. Let's not forget that the Proud Boys are not the only fascist group. There is a wide range of fascist militia. And, the KKK and Aryan Nation still very much exist. 

 

I fear things will get ugly after the election. Of course, the US is not the Middle East, and things won't get out of control, but, many innocent people might be killed or injured by fascists. 

Yes, but one only has to look where they sprang from. 'Proud Boys' weren't around in my day (mentioned in my other comments)...of course they've been around only a short time...but they have a rich violent 'heritage', Neo Nazi and the like. Now, I don't know if this is general but my experience was that far left extremist were rather 'quiet' and more secretive in their approach to a situation. The Nazi like groups were the exact opposite and were 'not shy in coming forward'.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, TKDfella said:

I am not American and have no axe to grind one way or the other but you obviously don't know the history of ANTIFA. It started in the early 1930's (some say 1920's) and was originally in Europe (generally speaking) Originally an anti fascist, largely a far left, movement. Some writers say it was born out of Resistance. After WWII it seemed to splinter and there was not really one specific group but various groups with similar ideals. This is why there speculation and doubt today. ANTIFA appeared in Britain later along side far right groups (hence my earlier post on this thread). When people tell you they are not real it is because they can't pin ANTIFA down to a particular HQ. There are historical books on the subject but beware there are also books that are, shall I say, 'questionable'. The other point is that groups with similar ideals have different names but end up with the same acronym ANTIFA. However, years ago, to my dismay, I found out yet another related group that were most definitely of the 'armed' (in fact 'armed' was their first word in their acronym) variety and their sole purpose is/was to further anarchy and communism. I am not suggesting anything about the riots in the USA but it would be difficult understand why the USA wouldn't have 'chapters', 'houses' etc. of ANTIFA.

I think what your post is based upon is when, 2019 and this year, contradictory remarks being made and that ANTIFA was an ideology not an organisation. Now that is true, up to a point. As I said above they are not an organisation with a definite HQ or centre (although they even had a congress in the early days) but they definitely exist.

 

 

First of all, thanks for the review. Not that I needed it, given that it (or other versions) made the rounds on this forum several times, plus there's quite a lot of resources available out there.

 

I think what you obviously did was respond to something which wasn't part of my post. Maybe you were trying to respond to someone else, maybe to another post I've made. No idea.

 

This is what I have posted:

 

Quote

 

Given that you (and other Trump supporters) often raise generalized complaints about the media, while at the same time failing to either clearly demonstrate them, or offer acceptable, viable alternatives does not make your point.

 

Let's start with this - is there such an Antifa webpage? Does it include the alleged information? Is there any credible source supporting such allegations? Something to confirm it?

 

The original post which led to this exchange alleged that several well-known donors (you can guess, it's the usual ones favored by right-wing conspiracy theorists) are Antifa 'benefactors'. It was further claimed that the information is available on Antifa's webpage. No support for this was offered.

 

The post I was replying to alleged that we cannot know what the truth is as there are too much 'fake news' about, and too many political interests represented. Or something like that.

 

My two points were , first regarding the effect that complaints by Trump supporters about the media are usually not supported by much, and that no alternative is offered. Second, that this doesn't apply to the original post - specific claims were made, and these (supposedly) could be supported or dismissed.

 

Nothing to do with what you've posted about. Sorry.

[onthedarkside]

Numerous posts and replies to them have been removed, including:

 

--a series of unsupported and unsubstantiated posts making claims of responsibility against the BLM group and Antifa followers.

 

--two reports based on Breitbart.com posts, which are not considered a credible news source on this forum.

 

--bickering and off-topic posts.

 

[polpott]

2 hours ago, TKDfella said:

The other point is that groups with similar ideals have different names but end up with the same acronym ANTIFA.

Antifa is not an acronym and shouldn't be written in block capitals. Its simply an abbreviation of "Anti fascist"

[TKDfella]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

First of all, thanks for the review. Not that I needed it, given that it (or other versions) made the rounds on this forum several times, plus there's quite a lot of resources available out there.

 

I think what you obviously did was respond to something which wasn't part of my post. Maybe you were trying to respond to someone else, maybe to another post I've made. No idea.

 

This is what I have posted:

 

 

The original post which led to this exchange alleged that several well-known donors (you can guess, it's the usual ones favored by right-wing conspiracy theorists) are Antifa 'benefactors'. It was further claimed that the information is available on Antifa's webpage. No support for this was offered.

 

The post I was replying to alleged that we cannot know what the truth is as there are too much 'fake news' about, and too many political interests represented. Or something like that.

 

My two points were , first regarding the effect that complaints by Trump supporters about the media are usually not supported by much, and that no alternative is offered. Second, that this doesn't apply to the original post - specific claims were made, and these (supposedly) could be supported or dismissed.

 

Nothing to do with what you've posted about. Sorry.

Well, i did wonder because you wrote '... is there such an Antifa webpage?' There is an ANTIFA International, https://antifainternational.tumblr.com/ However, as mentioned I've no axe to grind so I haven't researched that page and may not be authentic. So, 'sorry', it did have have something to do with what you posted

[Morch]

21 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Well, i did wonder because you wrote '... is there such an Antifa webpage?' There is an ANTIFA International, https://antifainternational.tumblr.com/ However, as mentioned I've no axe to grind so I haven't researched that page and may not be authentic. So, 'sorry', it did have have something to do with what you posted

 

That is a webpage. Nowhere does it say it's an official or authoritative one. Not even specifically focused on the USA situation. And of course, none of that alleged donor information to be found.

 

In the USA alone, there are currently over 200 groups associated with Antifa. Some have webpages, some do not. Some are genuine, others not so much.

 

Far-right smear campaign against Antifa exposed by Bellingcat

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41036631

 

A Fake Antifa Account Was 'Busted' for Tweeting from Russia

https://www.vice.com/en/article/59dwed/a-fake-antifa-account-was-busted-for-tweeting-from-russia-vgtrn

 

How to Spot a Fake Antifa Account

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/08/how-to-spot-a-fake-antifa-account.html

 

Fake Boston Antifa group, which claimed credit for anti-racism banner at Red Sox game, is actually run by right wing trolls

https://www.masslive.com/news/2017/09/fake_boston_antifa_group_who_c.html

 

What you've posted 'have something to do' with that only in a very roundabout way.

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, polpott said:

Antifa is not an acronym and shouldn't be written in block capitals. Its simply an abbreviation of "Anti fascist"

Yes I did make a mistake writing Antifa in large type but with regard to acronyms, concerned 'other groups' having the same acronym. Although I do admit to the ambiguity in proximity.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by onthedarkside
hidden post reply removed.

[polpott]

Just now, TKDfella said:

Yes I did make a mistake writing Antifa in large type but with regard to acronyms, concerned 'other groups' having the same acronym. Although I do admit to the ambiguity in proximity.

Its not an acronym, its an abbreviation.

An acronym is made up of the first letter of several words and is usually written in block capitals. eg NATO, North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. An abbreviation is the shortening of one or more words.

 

If you think that its an acronym, please tell me what the letters ANTIFA stand for.

[TKDfella]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That is a webpage. Nowhere does it say it's an official or authoritative one. Not even specifically focused on the USA situation. And of course, none of that alleged donor information to be found.

 

In the USA alone, there are currently over 200 groups associated with Antifa. Some have webpages, some do not. Some are genuine, others not so much.

 

Far-right smear campaign against Antifa exposed by Bellingcat

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41036631

 

A Fake Antifa Account Was 'Busted' for Tweeting from Russia

https://www.vice.com/en/article/59dwed/a-fake-antifa-account-was-busted-for-tweeting-from-russia-vgtrn

 

How to Spot a Fake Antifa Account

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/08/how-to-spot-a-fake-antifa-account.html

 

Fake Boston Antifa group, which claimed credit for anti-racism banner at Red Sox game, is actually run by right wing trolls

https://www.masslive.com/news/2017/09/fake_boston_antifa_group_who_c.html

 

What you've posted 'have something to do' with that only in a very roundabout way.

Ha, you questioned whether there was a webpage and I gave you one. As far as the US is concerned I have no idea who funds them. You made a mistake and that's the end of it. Whether it suits you or not is of no concern to me.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Ha, you questioned whether there was a webpage and I gave you one. As far as the US is concerned I have no idea who funds them. You made a mistake and that's the end of it. Whether it suits you or not is of no concern to me.

 

No, you have missed the first part of the exchange, and misunderstood the summary included above. The reference was to a specific page, and there was a specific claim regarding content. I did not question that Antifa webpages exist, but whether the previously alleged one was real (or genuine). There was no mistake made, other than by yourself thinking you understood what was being discussed.

 

This topic isn't even about Antifa. But In as much as Antifa relates to the OP, it's more to do with Antifa groups in the USA, rather than internationally. The comment you responded to were about that, and also addressed claims regarding funding.

[onthedarkside]

The bickering here is finished....  Time to move on.

 

[RocketDog]

12 hours ago, Tug said:

I don’t know it might just be easier to stop following his orders paying his bills he will probably just wander away lol more likely he will sneak out in the dark of night to hide his shame of beeing the biggest failure of a president in our history 

He is shameless. This should be abundantly clear by now. 

Sociopaths have no empathy and feel no shame. 

[JCauto]

On 10/1/2020 at 7:24 AM, Credo said:

Well here's 175:   
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-endorsements-law-enforcement

 

 

I haven't gone to the next five pages yet, but I'm sure your posting a direct and irrefutable rebuttal to the straw man postulated by ironically-named EVENKEEL, will no doubt result in an acknowledgement of error and an apology for posting misleading information. Anyway, that's it for me on this one, I'm off to watch the flying pig migration.

[JCauto]

On 10/1/2020 at 12:30 PM, simple1 said:

Maybe, but they do associate with white nationalists' groups and propagandise violence. What are you saying. they're OK for trump to condone with his 'standby' comment? trump claims he didn't know who they are, but trump has told so many lies, can't trust a word he says.

 

In 2018, McInnes was banned from Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram for violating terms of use related to promoting violent extremist groups and hate speech.^[17][18] In June 2020, McInnes's account was suspended from YouTube for violating YouTube's policies concerning hate speech, posting content that was "glorifying [and] inciting violence against another person or group of people.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_McInnes

 

This from journalist Nate Thayer:

 

Quote

 

"Trump has long known who the Proud Boys are. Senior Proud Boy leaders have long been in alliance with Trump, the highest levels of the Republican Party, and Trump's closest aides and inner circle. Three of their top leaders were subpoenaed by Robert Mueller and ordered to testify at the Grand Jury that indicted Roger Stone, Trump's closest aide, later convicted, and then pardoned by Trump."

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by onthedarkside
edited for fair use/ source link added

[BobBKK]

It WAS a stupid thing to say and the libs are bound to be all over it and conveniently forget the stuttering Joe. I think there's a good chance Biden will win and i think he'll be a so-so President fighting off the left libs constantly. The virus cost Trump the election but what happened... happened. The last of the Dem dinosaurs will take the prize until 2024.

Edited October 2, 2020 by BobBKK

[EVENKEEL]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

It WAS a stupid thing to say and the libs are bound to be all over it and conveniently forget the stuttering Joe. I think there's a good chance Biden will win and i think he'll be a so-so President fighting off the left libs constantly. The virus cost Trump the election but what happened... happened. The last of the Dem dinosaurs will take the prize until 2024.

Joe won't be able to fight off the left libs with what's her name at his side. I wouldn't mind ole joe at the helm but it's the far left that's scary.

[Average man]

But did joe biden ask his blm and Antifa to stand down ?

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

It WAS a stupid thing to say and the libs are bound to be all over it and conveniently forget the stuttering Joe. I think there's a good chance Biden will win and i think he'll be a so-so President fighting off the left libs constantly. The virus cost Trump the election but what happened... happened. The last of the Dem dinosaurs will take the prize until 2024.

"The virus cost Trump the election" You can say that again.

[GBW]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"The virus cost Trump the election" You can say that again.

just released, both Trump and wifey have been tested to cv19............ should have been wearing a mask.

[Mavideol]

Trump typical comments, fact check contradictions, one has to laugh at his stupxxity 555

 

1st he says "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by, but I'll tell you what, somebody's gotta do something about antifa and the left,” Mr Trump said.

 

 and then he he says "I don’t know who Proud Boys are, but whoever they are, they have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work," Mr Trump said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m-not-chris-wallace-cnn-003449575.html

[Eric Loh]

41 minutes ago, Average man said:

But did joe biden ask his blm and Antifa to stand down ?

BLM protesters are exercising their constitutional rights. As for condemning Antifa, you seem to miss a beat. This back in early September and on Fox.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-condemns-antifa-violent-protests

[Neeranam]

Biden is a bigot, listen tot he following to hear how racist he is.

 

Shocking

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/mark-levin-biden-bigoted-racist

[polpott]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Biden is a bigot, listen tot he following to hear how racist he is.

 

Shocking

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/mark-levin-biden-bigoted-racist

Fox News= fake news. Nothing to see there.

[Mavideol]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Biden is a bigot, listen tot he following to hear how racist he is.

 

Shocking

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/mark-levin-biden-bigoted-racist

and from Foxnews 555

[johnnybangkok]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Biden is a bigot, listen tot he following to hear how racist he is.

 

Shocking

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/mark-levin-biden-bigoted-racist

So lets get this straight. Your best attempt to show Biden is a racist is a Fox opinion piece talking about what the man said 45 years ago (which by the way wasn't even that bad).

 

Nice try but no cigar.

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Joe won't be able to fight off the left libs with what's her name at his side. I wouldn't mind ole joe at the helm but it's the far left that's scary.

 

There is no reason to believe she'll have more power than previous VP's held.

[EVENKEEL]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There is no reason to believe she'll have more power than previous VP's held.

It's the crazies hanging on her coattails.