SURVEY: School discipline, too much or not enough?

[Scott]

There have been numerous threads about a private school where a teacher has been accused of assaulting a Kindergarten student.   Although there are probably very few people that would condone the use of unnecessary force, especially on very young students, in general do you think teachers should be using more or less discipline on students?     Pick the option that best describes your opinion.

 

Please feel free to leave a comment.

[Emdog]

I'll let someone else start off, maybe with "I was beaten in school and it never did me any harm"

[JusticeGB]

School discipline in Thailand is more like gross abuse of children. When I was at school only the head Master was allowed to administer punishment. Now in England no corporeal punishments are allowed it's a criminal Offence. 

[Surelynot]

No pupil can learn in an environment where physical punishment is a possibility. 

 

Whilst the vast majority of teachers behave in a professional manner, the few that do not would have a license to terrorise .......totally unacceptable.

[Lacessit]

Physical discipline should only be used as an ultimate sanction, and only by the headmaster of the school. The discipline should be communicated to the parents beforehand, they then have the option of removing the child from the school if they disagree. Although they will probably end up with a spoiled little turd.

Usually, discipline such as detention or suspension of privileges is enough.

Most of the teachers I have had were ok, although I can remember one in primary school who was a raging sadist.

[scorecard]

17 minutes ago, JusticeGB said:

School discipline in Thailand is more like gross abuse of children. When I was at school only the head Master was allowed to administer punishment. Now in England no corporeal punishments are allowed it's a criminal Offence. 

Sure, Australia also.

 

Part of the problem in LOS is the lack of respect for the written/gazetted law.

 

Had one Thai professor at my uni who smacked girls across the face regularly. She was chastised severely/regularly in the lecturers lounge by the other professors, who demanded she stop it.

 

Her response 'I spoke to the dean, she says it's OK to do it at this uni.'

 

 

[stouricks]

If I came home from school and told my Mum I had 'had the slipper' or whatever, she would clout me round the ear-

óle and send me up to bed, a bit like being shown a red card for conceding a penalty.....punished twice!

Edited October 4, 2020 by stouricks

[Lacessit]

25 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

No pupil can learn in an environment where physical punishment is a possibility. 

 

Whilst the vast majority of teachers behave in a professional manner, the few that do not would have a license to terrorise .......totally unacceptable.

My contention would be no Thai can learn in an environment where so much information about the world outside Thailand is deliberately withheld.

[Pedrogaz]

Personally, I am in favour of mutilations for small children who misbehave. First offence: cut their ears off; second offence: cut their noses off; third offence: gouge their eyes out.

This may not solve the disciplinary problem but would enable everybody to see who the miscreants were when they become adults.

These mutilations should be done in a special room with qualified personnel.

[sirocco]

what to say ! an admonition, a punishment or even a slap never killed a child.
Of course, pulling children by the hair, banging their heads against a desk, putting them in a large plastic bag is unacceptable.
You have to know how to measure yourself.
It lacks pedegogy, which many lack.
Personally, if I had not taken a few slaps, in elementary school, by the teachers, and slaps again by my parents, I would not be who I am today.
Thank you, dad, mom, thank you teachers.
Now if you want to do as in my country where it is the children, the parents who knock on the teachers, take your children out of school and give them the education that suits them.
You will have a good laugh.
But if you teach them the BA BA of education, that would be good already.

[richard_smith237]

Physical discipline at school - Never. A good teacher never needs to physically discipline a Child its wholly wrong.

If a child is so disruptive or behaving so outrageously that physical pushment is considered an option the only option is to remove the child from the current environment for the benefit of the other students. 

 

In all but the most extreme of situations a good teach will always be able to control students without the need for serious discipline. 

 

I’m borderline on whether parents should be allowed to smack their children. Our son is 6 years old, a ‘smack on the bottom’ is in our arsenal and our son knows this - we’ve not needed it. Other measures of discipline from lack of attention, timeouts, removal of privileges and toys have been effective along with positive reenforcement of good behaviour. 

 

 

[kingstonkid]

As children grow up the punishment needs to change.  Classis we had were stand outside the door.  At grade 1-3 that worked grade 4it stopped because students co up ld not find their boots and shoes.

 

Had a teacher if we were daydreaming through a ball at us aiming at our head if you caught it andave the right answer yuwere safe.

 

Principal had a strap that he used when needed.

 

Last thing you ever did was announce to hat you got a strap hi

 

[connda]

I grew up in a era where there was corporal punishment in the school and I more than once got a whack or two on the butt.  It never permanently scarred me physically nor mentally.  It was a rite of passage for most of us.

But - there is a line between discipline and abuse and that line seems to be crossed a lot here in Thailand. 

[connda]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Sure, Australia also.

 

Part of the problem in LOS is the lack of respect for the written/gazetted law.

 

Had one Thai professor at my uni who smacked girls across the face regularly. She was chastised severely/regularly in the lecturers lounge by the other professors, who demanded she stop it.

 

Her response 'I spoke to the dean, she says it's OK to do it at this uni.'

 

 

What needs to happen is the fathers of those uni girls need to pay the guy a visit and administer quid pro quo with extreme prejudice. 

[worgeordie]

When I was at school, corporal punishment was the norm,the number of times i had 6 of the best,

mostly through fighting in the school yard, it was either a thin bamboo cane they would try and hit

your fingertips...or the kinky teachers used to wack you across the @rse , and they used to say,

"This is going to hurt me more than you ".....but never once did i think i would take an AK47 (if

i could have gotten one) or even a knife, and kill all the teachers, because i suppose i realised I had done something wrong

and i would be punished for it.

 

What,s going on in Thai schools now, is wrong, these are just little kids,they dont know right from wrong,

it seems like the teachers are taking their shortcomings,personal and monetary problems out on their

little pupils,and it's the teachers that need punishing also school owners.

 

The World has really changed,most kids have little respect for anyone, lack of corporal punishment,

parental control,but the change is not good.

 

regards worgeordie

 

 

 

 

[TigerandDog]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

My contention would be no Thai can learn in an environment where so much information about the world outside Thailand is deliberately withheld.

Same can be said for America. Most yanks have zero knowledge of the world outside the USA.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Personally, I am in favour of mutilations for small children who misbehave. First offence: cut their ears off; second offence: cut their noses off; third offence: gouge their eyes out.

This may not solve the disciplinary problem but would enable everybody to see who the miscreants were when they become adults.

These mutilations should be done in a special room with qualified personnel.

But then I would not be able to read your post, or laugh at your reductio ad absurdum.

[Keesters]

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

these are just little kids,they dont know right from wrong,

.... 

The World has really changed,most kids have little respect for anyone, lack of corporal punishment,

parental control,but the change is not good.

regards worgeordie

 

School kids do, or should, know right from wrong. They've had 4 or more years to learn already in their home environment. Sadly that environment may not be much with its own physical abuse or at best just being ignored. A Thai family I know are only too pleased that their 4 yo now attends school leaving them freedom to do the most important of things "make money". They are even more pleased not having to take care of him for a few hours after school is out having left that job to me. 

 

Pre-covid when I'd visit beaches regularly I often observed kids ask their parents "play with me daddy", "come swimming mommy". What was the most often reply to these questions. "here's 20 baht go buy an ice cream and find somebody else to play with". 

 

The real problem arises in PARENTING not SCHOOLING. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Keesters

[jerolamo]

It is not about "too much or not enough", it is about "how to teach".

There is technical skills required to teach. And also depend of how old are the child.

 

So the answer can be something like:

"require a better level for teacher to be able to teach something".

Even when some people seems to get a kind of vocation (who is really a big part of what can be possible or not), they need to get skills to help them to teach something.

I maybe wrong but i see that in Thailand, it seems to have a kind of improvisation to do anything, and a kind of... "mai pen arai" mentality who is not adapted for teach something.

Edited October 4, 2020 by jerolamo

[DrTuner]

Physical disciplining is a symptom of dysfunctional school and culture. Fire all the teachers first. None of that goes on in Finland, which is renowned for it's school system. There's no kowtowing to teachers either, they work together with the kids.

[JTXR]

How much "disciple" children need, how much is acceptable, is a cultural standard.  What is acceptable now in Europe or the US is different from what is acceptable now in Thailand.

 

These standards change over time.  What was acceptable in Europe or the US 50 years ago is no longer acceptable.  The standards will change in Thailand too.

[Kwasaki]

Pointless survey too many ifs and buts and what's going on with this kid. etc etc. 

Don't agree with anyone hitting kid's, no need for it in school or at home 

With a problem child a good school would deal with it properly by visiting the the home. 

[TheRealRobin]

If the question is whether unnecessary force is acceptable then the answer is obviously a no. But, if parents are not willing to accept that some form of physical discipline is necessary, then they could perhaps resign their jobs and attend class so that they can insure their little angels are not ruining the opportunity of the rest of the class to get an education.

[GreasyFingers]

4 hours ago, worgeordie said:

The World has really changed,most kids have little respect for anyone, lack of corporal punishment,

parental control,but the change is not good.

You are right. The best form of discipline is self discipline but with children it must start with someone else, hopefully the parents.

As was said above there is a difference between discipline and abuse.

[GreasyFingers]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

But then I would not be able to read your post, or laugh at your reductio ad absurdum.

@Petrogas does go too far. If you have a problem child just a bit of 4x2 every morning when they wake up.

[Andy from Kent]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Physical disciplining is a symptom of dysfunctional school and culture. Fire all the teachers first. None of that goes on in Finland, which is renowned for it's school system. There's no kowtowing to teachers either, they work together with the kids.

 

Everyone should move to  Finland then.     Is there enough room for all of us?  ????

[bodga]

question not specific  enough...........for the teachers or  pupils?

[Keesters]

3 hours ago, TheRealRobin said:

If the question is whether unnecessary force is acceptable then the answer is obviously a no. But, if parents are not willing to accept that some form of physical discipline is necessary, then they could perhaps resign their jobs and attend class so that they can insure their little angels are not ruining the opportunity of the rest of the class to get an education.

It is the parents job to teach their kids in the pre-school age period rights, wrongs, acceptable behavior etc. This may be missing in the children who misbehave at school. If I'm right then it's the parents who need discipline not the child. I consider myself lucky. I had a stay at home mother and a 5day/week working father. I also had siblings, older brother, younger sister. This made for a complete loving family unit. I never felt the need to misbehave to gain attention as I was given plenty. Single parent families, one child families, parent(s) always working are IMO a recipe for troubled children. 

[cyril sneer]

Better to let them play on their phones, they behave a lot better that way 

[DrTuner]

2 hours ago, Andy from Kent said:

Everyone should move to  Finland then.     Is there enough room for all of us?  ????

Sure, since everyone will be screaming from the darkness induced insanity and fleeing the country in November, when 1 degC rain starts to whip your face numb, plenty of room for those beyond insanity. Ups & downs, the elementary schools are top notch.