Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O-X” (long stay) versus Thai Elite versus "O-A"

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The embassy should issue a OA visa when you still have a valid extension and re-entry permit for it. When entering the country you have to be sure immigration do not use the re-entry permit. 

They never have given me a new visa when I had a valid re-entry.. One time they even refused when there was just a couple of days on the reentry and I wasnt coming to Thailand for a month. I asked if they could just hold my passport and delay the application until after the re-entry expired but no, come back next week and do it all again, to receive the exact same outcome !! 

[LivinLOS]

23 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, thanks for bringing it up.

I do need to apologize because my statement #2 in red is indeed not correct.

As UJ wrote it is indeed possible to apply for a NEW Visa, when your current Visa validity has not expired yet.  And likewise it is possible to apply for a NEW Visa, when your current permission to stay (protected by a Re-Entry Permit) has not expired yet.

Refused new visa in both UK and Netherlands with valid re-entry still in existence. 

 

Must be case by case / embassy by embassy. 

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

They never have given me a new visa when I had a valid re-entry..

What category of visa?

A re-entry permit for what type of extension or entry?

[mlkik]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Your understanding is not fully correct on a couple of points:

0 - You can ONLY apply for the Non Imm O-A Visa in a Thai Embassy/Consulate in your home-country (Canada).

1 - The Non Imm O-A Visa is multiple-entry during its 1-year validity.  Every time you exit and re-enter Thailand during that 1-year validity period you will be stamped in by border-immigration for a full year permission to stay.  Hence by exiting and re-entering Thailand just before the 1-year validity period expires, you will have almost 2 years of IO hassle-free stay in Thailand.

2 - You cannot have 2 valid long-stay visas.  When your Visa validity has not expired yet, you cannot apply for a new Visa.  Also when the permission to stay as stamped in your passport has not expired you are not able to apply for a new Visa.  But when you exit Thailand without a re-entry permit (which protects the validity of your permission to stay), the permission to stay will be voided and then you will be able to apply for a new Visa.

3 - I understand that you currently have a 1-year extension of stay based on an original Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.  The permission to stay of that 1-year Non Imm O extension expires January 31, 2021.  When wanting to stay in Thailand you can not switch to a different Visa type/category, you can only EXTEND that current Non Imm O permission to stay.

When applying for the 1-year extension of stay, you can do this during the last month of your current permission to stay up till last day (31 January 2021).  And you would need to meet the financial requirements when applying for the 1-year extension of stay. 

When applying for reason of RETIREMENT and using the funds-in-bank method, you would need to provide evidence of 800K being seasoned for at least 2 months on a personal Thai bank-account at the moment of application.

So you would need to have those 800K there in course of coming 2 weeks otherwise you would not be able to meet the 2-month seasoning requirement of the funds.

Note: When applying for reason of MARRIAGE or THAI DEPENDENT CHILDREN, the financial requirements are lower (400K and when applying for reason of Thai dependent children there is no 2 month seasoning requiremeents).

Also as Canadian citizen, you might make use of the Embassy issued income-letter to meet the financial requirements, when you can prove that you have foreign income (e.g. from pension or rental income) in excess of +65K monthly.   

I have a current Non O extension for retirement and multi re-entry permit valid until 15/01/21 and the London Thai Embassy sent me an email advising me to apply for a Non Immigrant O-A if I wanted to enter Thailand.

I have only yesterday emailed them for confirmation that I can be issued this visa as I have a Non O extension and re-entry permit that have not expired.

[Peter Denis]

13 minutes ago, mlkik said:

I have a current Non O extension for retirement and multi re-entry permit valid until 15/01/21 and the London Thai Embassy sent me an email advising me to apply for a Non Immigrant O-A if I wanted to enter Thailand.

I have only yesterday emailed them for confirmation that I can be issued this visa as I have a Non O extension and re-entry permit that have not expired.

Please inform us of response you got.  According to post #62 there seems to be different practices per Embassy on how they handle this.

Note: If they refuse your application for reason that your current Non Imm O permission to stay has not expired yet, you could consider applying for a new passport first and then re-apply with 'your tracks covered'.

[mlkik]

15 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

 

Note: If they refuse your application for reason that your current Non Imm O permission to stay has not expired yet, you could consider applying for a new passport first and then re-apply with 'your tracks covered'.

I have a new passport that I had to get from Trendy building last year and as I have waited since March to return I do not mind waiting a couple more months now to return.

I never used ti go along with people who complained about Thailand qll the yime and how we expats were badly treated.

However I have now seen the light as it were ! Maybe it is time to re evaluate whether retiring and living in Thailand was a good idea.

Yes I have a relationship ,new car and a home but if I can not even return then what is the point !

Maybe I will buy myself a property in the UK again and visit Thailand as a tourist as and when covid settles down.

[nrasmussen]

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Which consulate interprets it this way?

And does the Thai Embassy of that country applies the same incorrect interpretation?

I can personally attest that five years ago that was what the embassy in Copenhagen, Denmark did. Of course, I don't know if that is still the case.

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

What category of visa?

A re-entry permit for what type of extension or entry?

Non imm O ME visa app.. I had an extension (non imm O generated permission of stay, extended due to marriage) held open with a re-entry permit, got sent away in Holland and told to come back the next week when it would have naturally expired for a new non imm O visa. Would not issue the visa while valid re-entry was live even tho it was just a couple of days until expiry and travel was past that expiry date. 

Also was denied a new non imm O single entry as it overlapped a previous multiple entry, even though my already booked travel was a further month out and after the expiry of the ME visa. 

I had then gained the idea that was a consistent thing, you couldnt hold 2 valid entry options simultaneously. I seem to recall reading Savannakhet doing similar but not personally effected.  

[Kiujunn]

3 hours ago, nrasmussen said:

I can personally attest that five years ago that was what the embassy in Copenhagen, Denmark did. Of course, I don't know if that is still the case.

The consulate in Munich,  Germany,  is doing this. 

 

[Kiujunn]

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You will get another one year entry from a OA visa up to the day it expires. It is only a new permit to stay not an extension you apply for at immigration.

At the end of the 2nd year you can apply for a one year extension of stay at immigration or you can return to your home country and apply for a new OA visa.

The embassy should issue a OA visa when you still have a valid extension and re-entry permit for it. When entering the country you have to be sure immigration do not use the re-entry permit. 

Why?

 

If immigration uses the re-entry permit  when  entering the country he would be in exactly the same position as if he had never applied for the OA Visa, just used his original Non Imm O. Sounds good to me. 

 

No need for compulsory health insurance.  But obviously no 2nd permission of stay of one year when entering after almost a year. 

 

Does OA have any advantages over Non Imm O?

 

[CANSIAM]

On 10/14/2020 at 12:00 AM, Peter Denis said:

Please inform us of response you got.  According to post #62 there seems to be different practices per Embassy on how they handle this.

Note: If they refuse your application for reason that your current Non Imm O permission to stay has not expired yet, you could consider applying for a new passport first and then re-apply with 'your tracks covered'.

I have been told by Thai Embassy Vancouver Canada, when granted the new O-A, they will not cancel or do anything with the current valid Non O retirement and re entry permit in your passport. They don't interfere with anything on the Thailand immigration side. I think I will do whats required for O-A here but hold off on mailing in. Im thinking the Thai Government will permit Non O retired soon and before my expiry Jan. 31 2021. ( maybe wishful ). It makes you wonder  the IO in Bangkok will see a valid O-A and a valid Non 0 re entry - what actions would he take or decide on ??? Any thoughts ? I've also thought about the X-O but leaning to A-O and of course sitting tight longer with whats already in my passport. 

 

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, CANSIAM said:

It makes you wonder  the IO in Bangkok will see a valid O-A and a valid Non 0 re entry - what actions would he take or decide on ??? Any thoughts ? I've also thought about the X-O but leaning to A-O and of course sitting tight longer with whats already in my passport. 

If you have a valid visa issued by a embassy and a re-entry permit they will use the visa if it allows a longer stay than the re-entry permit.

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, CANSIAM said:

I have been told by Thai Embassy Vancouver Canada, when granted the new O-A, they will not cancel or do anything with the current valid Non O retirement and re entry permit in your passport. They don't interfere with anything on the Thailand immigration side. I think I will do whats required for O-A here but hold off on mailing in. Im thinking the Thai Government will permit Non O retired soon and before my expiry Jan. 31 2021. ( maybe wishful ). It makes you wonder  the IO in Bangkok will see a valid O-A and a valid Non 0 re entry - what actions would he take or decide on ??? Any thoughts ? I've also thought about the X-O but leaning to A-O and of course sitting tight longer with whats already in my passport.

UJ correctly answered your question.  When entering Thailand you simply write the unique Visa-number of your Non Imm O-A on the TM-6 entry/departure card.  That will avoid that border-immigration might accidentally stamp you in for the remainder of the days of your Non Imm O Visa based permission to stay (protected by the Re-Entry Permit).

When entering on a new Non Imm O-A Visa you will be stamped in for the 1-year permission to stay that Visa entitles you. 

Note: And when exiting and re-entering Thailand at the end of the 1st year Visa validity, you will once again be stamped in for a full year permission to stay.  So the Non Imm O-A Visa can provide you with almost 2 years of IO hassle-free stay in Thailand (and with no need to park/transfer money to a thai bank-account or having to visit your local IO twice for annual extensions).

[CANSIAM]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

UJ correctly answered your question.  When entering Thailand you simply write the unique Visa-number of your Non Imm O-A on the TM-6 entry/departure card.  That will avoid that border-immigration might accidentally stamp you in for the remainder of the days of your Non Imm O Visa based permission to stay (protected by the Re-Entry Permit).

When entering on a new Non Imm O-A Visa you will be stamped in for the 1-year permission to stay that Visa entitles you. 

Note: And when exiting and re-entering Thailand at the end of the 1st year Visa validity, you will once again be stamped in for a full year permission to stay.  So the Non Imm O-A Visa can provide you with almost 2 years of IO hassle-free stay in Thailand (and with no need to park/transfer money to a thai bank-account or having to visit your local IO twice for annual extensions).

Thanks Peter / Ubon Joe....

[Peter Denis]

6 minutes ago, CANSIAM said:

Thanks Peter...

HI, I just PM-ed you a Guideline Document on how to meet the Non Imm O-A compliant IO-approved health-insurance requirement when applying for the Non Imm O-A Visa in your home-country.

[crowned]

My first post, so go easy on me please.????

I've just been granted Non Imm O-X in Australia, and awaiting to be allocated a flight to BKK. I have some queries about the financial proof when I do my first 12 month visit to IO.

Others state that 

"applicants for the Non Imm O-X Visa MUST have money deposited in Thai bank located in Thailand with the amount of not less than 1.8 million Baht and have income with the amount of not less than 1.2 million Baht per year. Once the applicants enter Thailand, they must have accumulated money deposited in Thai bank located in Thailand not less than 3 million Baht within 1 year.

The money in (a) and (b) must be kept in bank account at least 1 year before withdrawing and, within another next year, the money must be left in the account with the amount of not less than 1.5 million Baht and can only be spent in Thailand"

 

1. Does this mean that I must have 3 Million Baht actually in my account after 12 months, or 1.8 million and 1.2 million worth of deposits over that period that I can withdraw to live on ?

2. I've read that if I use Transferwise to send money to my Thai Account, it may not show up as an overseas transfer. What do people recommend to avoid this problem?

 

thanks for your assistance

[ubonjoe]

1. If you have 3 million baht a Thai bank there is no need to show income and money in the bank. If you have the income and money in the bank you do not need to have the 3 million in the bank. After the first year you only need to keep 1.5 million in the bank but what is withdrawn must be spent in Thailand.

2. It depends upon what bank you are using. Best to use one of the 3 partner banks transferwise uses here. Then on the dropdown menu for what the funds will be used for the last one that states it is for visa purposes. Bangkok is the best one since the transfers will be shown as international transfers.

[crowned]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

1. If you have 3 million baht a Thai bank there is no need to show income and money in the bank. If you have the income and money in the bank you do not need to have the 3 million in the bank. After the first year you only need to keep 1.5 million in the bank but what is withdrawn must be spent in Thailand.

2. It depends upon what bank you are using. Best to use one of the 3 partner banks transferwise uses here. Then on the dropdown menu for what the funds will be used for the last one that states it is for visa purposes. Bangkok is the best one since the transfers will be shown as international transfers.

thanks Ubonjoe

I'll try to go with Bangkok Bank then

[Peter Denis]

4 hours ago, crowned said:

My first post, so go easy on me please.????

I've just been granted Non Imm O-X in Australia, and awaiting to be allocated a flight to BKK.

As you applied for the Non Imm O-X Visa, the 1,2 - 3 million THB to be parked on a Thai bank-account is obviously no issue for you.

But I am genuinely interested in the reasons you opted for that expensive Visa, which imo has very little benefits compared with other available Visa options. 

[crowned]

Good question Peter. I had such a bad experience with my application meeting the criteria, and uncertainty about being granted permission to exit Australia under Covid restrictions, that when the Consulate staff said I fulfilled the criteria for O-A or O-X, the X just gave me more comfort about fewer re-applications in the future. Sure, I agree, there's not many advantages considering the additional financial commitment. 

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, crowned said:

Sure, I agree, there's not many advantages considering the additional financial commitment. 

Well the 5 year validity is not to be sneezed at, and I believe you get stamped in for 5 years when you land in Thailand... be nice if you could confirm that at a later date. There is also a requirement to visit immigration if you do not leave Thailand after 1 year and prove you maintained the required bank balance... just wondering how that would be policed if one already has a 5 year stamp.

[Inala]

Thanks everyone for all your replies...they have been most helpful.

 

Just one further question on the O-A and/or O-X visas. I think Ubonjoe or someone mentioned in one of the responses that if you're not in Thailand, you have to apply for either of these visas in your home country. In my case, I have lived away from Thailand for 5 straight years in another Asean country. I hold a work permit here and also have tax residency here. Given that this effectively my place of residence and that it's almost impossible to get into Australia at this time, can I apply for either of these visas at the local Australian (or Thai Embassy) here?

 

Or do I really need to do this in Australia?  

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Inala said:

can I apply for either of these visas at the local Australian (or Thai Embassy) here?

You may be able to apply for a OA or OX visa at the Thai embassy where you are at if you have proof of residency there. You would need to contact the embassy to find what they require or check the embassy website for info.

This site has all the embassies and official consulates listed with links to the websites.

See: https://www.thaiembassy.org/

[Inala]

27 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You may be able to apply for a OA or OX visa at the Thai embassy where you are at if you have proof of residency there. You would need to contact the embassy to find what they require or check the embassy website for info.

This site has all the embassies and official consulates listed with links to the websites.

See: https://www.thaiembassy.org/

Thanks Joe. I followed the link through to the list of requirements, and it seems I only need to show my visa for here, so I think all good! Curiously though, they don't mention the O-X visa anywhere, only the O and O-A.

 

Can you go in on an O-A and then later change it to an O-X? 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Inala

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, Inala said:

Can you go in on an O-A and then later change it to an O-X? 

The only way to change it is to apply for the OX after the OA visa expires at a embassy.

[Peter Denis]

19 minutes ago, Inala said:

Thanks Joe. I followed the link through to the list of requirements, and it seems I only need to show my visa for here, so I think all good! Curiously though, they don't mention the O-X visa anywhere, only the O and O-A.

 

Can you go in on an O-A and then later change it to an O-X? 

The Non Imm O-X Visa is only available for a limited number of nationalities.  So it is well possible that when applying in another country where you are permanent resident that the Thai Embassy/Consulate does not publish it on its website, as locals would not be able to apply for it.

Changing type Visa is not possible in-country, the only exception being applying for a Non Imm O Visa when having entered VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa.

 

FYI > On Page-1 of this thread I posted a comparison between the O-A and O-X Visa.  And it is crystal clear that the O-X Visa is a very expensive option that provides very little benefits.  

[Inala]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

The Non Imm O-X Visa is only available for a limited number of nationalities.  So it is well possible that when applying in another country where you are permanent resident that the Thai Embassy/Consulate does not publish it on its website, as locals would not be able to apply for it.

Changing type Visa is not possible in-country, the only exception being applying for a Non Imm O Visa when having entered VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa.

 

FYI > On Page-1 of this thread I posted a comparison between the O-A and O-X Visa.  And it is crystal clear that the O-X Visa is a very expensive option that provides very little benefits.  

Thanks Peter, got it. And I'll revisit your page 1 comparison!

[Inala]

On 10/12/2020 at 9:23 AM, Peter Denis said:

When choosing the Visa to apply for in your home-country you can do this for various purposes/reasons.  And the requirements/conditions are different depending on the type Visa and the reason applying for it.

When you are over 50 years of age (and meet the financial and other requirements) you are eligible to apply at the Thai Embassy/Consulate of your home-country for

- a 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa

- a 5-year Non Imm O-X Visa

In some countries you can also apply for a 90-days Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, but that is not possible in e.g. USA or Australia (there you can only apply for such a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for Family reasons). 

So if you want a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, you need to enter Thailand first on a Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa.  And then with at least 15 days left on your permission to stay that entry provided you, you can apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement at your local IO.  Subsequently you can then in the last month of the 90-days permission to stay, apply for a 1-year extension of that Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.

 

When over 50 years of age and

- wanting to stay long-term in Thailand

- not being married to a Thai national

- not eligible or interested in Visa types for other reasons (e.g. Business, Education, etc.)

and depending on your circumstances the most popular Visa for those over 50 years of age are the 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa and the 1-year extension of the Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement. 

Note: The Non Imm O-X Visa is ridiculously expensive for the little benefits it provides.

 

It depends on your circumstances which of those 2 options Non Imm O-A or Non Imm-O is most beneficial in your situation.

For my specific situation (not married, visiting my home-country occasionally every 1-2 year) there is no doubt that the Non Imm O-A Visa is my choice of preference (not extending it after 2-years but simply re-applying for a new one when visiting my home-country).

 

If you are not clear about which Visa is best for you, do PM me with the following info as these are the factors of relevance to determine your choice:

- Age and nationality

- Married to a Thai national or father of a Thai childr

- Receiving monthly income (e.g. pension or rental income) in excess of +65.000 THB monthly

- Occasionally visiting your home-country (at least once every 2 years)

- Holder of foreign/international or Thai health-insurance with +400K/+40K coverage for in/out-patient care

- Equivalent of at least 800.000 THB on a foreign or Thai personal bank-account for at least 3 months

Peter, in your reply, you mentioned that-

 

"When you are over 50 years of age (and meet the financial and other requirements) you are eligible to apply at the Thai Embassy/Consulate of your home-country for

- a 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa

- a 5-year Non Imm O-X Visa

In some countries you can also apply for a 90-days Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, but that is not possible in e.g. USA or Australia (there you can only apply for such a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for Family reasons)"

 

My question is- why would anybody apply for a 90-days Non Imm O visa for reason of retirement, when you can just go ahead anyway and apply for a 1 year Non Imm O-A Visa? So, if you can already get 1 year, why bother with wasting time doing an application for only 90 days??

 

[mosan]

58 minutes ago, Inala said:

Peter, in your reply, you mentioned that-

 

"When you are over 50 years of age (and meet the financial and other requirements) you are eligible to apply at the Thai Embassy/Consulate of your home-country for

- a 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa

- a 5-year Non Imm O-X Visa

In some countries you can also apply for a 90-days Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, but that is not possible in e.g. USA or Australia (there you can only apply for such a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for Family reasons)"

 

My question is- why would anybody apply for a 90-days Non Imm O visa for reason of retirement, when you can just go ahead anyway and apply for a 1 year Non Imm O-A Visa? So, if you can already get 1 year, why bother with wasting time doing an application for only 90 days??

 

In all this time since your original post, you haven't done any research.  It's all about the money. Many may qualify for a 90 day Non-Immigrant O  but not necessarily qualify for a Non-Immigrant O-A. There is a big difference in requirements.  Additionally, one must have family ties here in the Kingdom to qualify for a Non-Imm O from most countries - not so with the Non-Imm O-A. With the O-A VISA one can apply for reason of "retirement"...family ties not needed.   

 

I suggest you go back to the embassy website from your home country and study the requirements in their entirety. Try to grasp the nuanced differences between visas. What works for one person may not work for another...

Edited November 8, 2020 by mosan
Clarity

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Inala said:

My question is- why would anybody apply for a 90-days Non Imm O visa for reason of retirement, when you can just go ahead anyway and apply for a 1 year Non Imm O-A Visa? So, if you can already get 1 year, why bother with wasting time doing an application for only 90 days??

 

because:

 

1 - The O-A visa traps you into being required to have an insurance policy from one of 13 designated Thai companies, even if you already have excellent health insurance that covers you in Thailand, and these policies are (1)  very poor value for the money and (2) not available at all to people over 75.

 

2 - you can do a 1 year extension of the 90 day O visa in country and then every year thereafter (as you will likely have to do with the O-A anyhow). So just a one time extra step at the end of 90 days and anyone who can meet O-A finance requirements should be able to meet the requirements for 1 year extension of an O.

 

The only real advantage of O-A vs O (for those who can get it - Embassies in some countries won't issue it for retirement) is that under the COVID restrictions  you can get a COE with it whereas currently cannot with an O for retirement (can for O if married or parent of a Thai).