EU tells Britain to give ground to secure trade deal, UK to respond Friday

[webfact]

EU tells Britain to give ground to secure trade deal, UK to respond Friday

By Gabriela Baczynska and Kate Holton

 

FILE PHOTO: European Council President Charles Michel in Brussels, Belgium October 2, 2020. John Thys/Pool via REUTERS/File Photo

 

BRUSSELS/LONDON (Reuters) - The European Union put the onus on Britain on Thursday to compromise on their new economic partnership or stand ready for trade disruptions in less than 80 days, drawing a chilly reaction from the UK, which said it was "disappointed".

 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson will respond and set out his approach to the talks on Friday, his Brexit negotiator said.

 

Sporting face masks and keeping their distance amidst a fresh spike in COVID-19 infections in the EU, the bloc's leaders meeting in Brussels granted more time for negotiations with Britain on a new trade pact before the year ends.

 

"We are concerned by the lack of progress. And we call on the UK to make the necessary moves," said summit chairman, Charles Michel, adding the bloc wanted an accord but not at any price and was ready for an abrupt split from 2021 as well.

 

Britain's Brexit negotiator David Frost said on Twitter he was "disappointed". "Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK," he added.

 

Britain left the EU in January and, during a transition period, the estranged allies have been locked in complex negotiations to keep a trillion euros worth of annual trade free of tariffs or quotas from 2021.

 

Meeting face-to-face for only the third time in the coronavirus pandemic, EU leaders wore masks and kept their distance as they gathered in Brussels to discuss Brexit, where a new trade pact is still proving elusive. Ciara Lee reports

 

Talks have narrowed gaps on issues from social welfare to transport but three contentious areas have so far prevented a deal: fair competition, dispute resolution and fisheries, which is particularly important to France.

 

"In no case shall our fishermen be sacrificed for Brexit," said French President Emmanuel Macron. "If the right terms can't be found at the end of these discussions, we're ready for a no-deal for our future relations."

 

With businesses and markets increasingly jittery as the deadline nears, EU leaders stressed the unity of the 27-nation bloc in the face off.

 

"We want a deal, but obviously not at any price. It has to be a fair agreement that serves the interests of both sides. This is worth every effort," said German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

 

'CRAZY'

Ireland, the EU member most exposed to any chaotic rupture, said smooth post-Brexit trade between the world's sixth largest economy and biggest trading bloc was even more essential given the economic havoc of the COVID-19 crisis.

 

"We still can get this resolved within the timeframe available to us," said Irish Prime Minister Micheal Martin.

 

The pandemic has thrust Europe into unprecedented recession and many nations are tightening restrictions again to combat a second infection wave sweeping the continent as winter looms.

 

The coronavirus upset the summit itself when one of the key participants, the head of the bloc's executive, Ursula von der Leyen, left the meeting abruptly to go into precautionary self-isolation after one of her staff tested positive.

 

Given the economic malaise and global instability, it would be "crazy" if the two sides failed to agree a deal, said Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte.

Many in financial markets expect a limited deal by early November, though after several more weeks of drama.

 

The EU has warned it would not leave fishing rights to be settled last and stressed they must be part of a wider deal with issues like energy ties where London has a weaker hand.

 

The sides are also far apart on fair competition safeguards covering social, labour and environment standards, as well as state aid.

 

Britain wants to be able to regulate its own corporate subsidies freely in the future, while the EU seeks to lock in joint rules. Otherwise, the bloc says Britain cannot have free access to its cherished single market of 450 million consumers.

 

(Reporting by Marine Strauss, Jan Strupczewski, Gabriela Baczynska, John Chalmers in Brussels; Michel Rose in Paris, Sabine Siebold and Andreas Rinke in Berlin; Writing by Gabriela Baczynska; Editing by Andrew Cawthorne, Philippa Fletcher, Toby Chopra and Andrew Heavens)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-10-16

 

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[John Drake]

Seems to me as an outsider that France wants to control British territory and Germany wants to control British tax and corporate policy. Essentially, Britain will be a colony of the EU, with its laws and resources controlled by the EU while the British don't even get a vote or say in the matter.

[Dellboy218]

45 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Seems to me as an outsider that France wants to control British territory and Germany wants to control British tax and corporate policy. Essentially, Britain will be a colony of the EU, with its laws and resources controlled by the EU while the British don't even get a vote or say in the matter.

Hopefully that will end shortly.  (Been saying that for over 4 years!)

[Rookiescot]

48 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Seems to me as an outsider that France wants to control British territory and Germany wants to control British tax and corporate policy. Essentially, Britain will be a colony of the EU, with its laws and resources controlled by the EU while the British don't even get a vote or say in the matter.

Westminster does get a say in the matter. They can say no thanks and leave with no deal.

[JonnyF]

55 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Seems to me as an outsider that France wants to control British territory and Germany wants to control British tax and corporate policy. Essentially, Britain will be a colony of the EU, with its laws and resources controlled by the EU while the British don't even get a vote or say in the matter.

Yes, essentially they want us to hand over our waters and play by their rules on state aid and 'level playing field', and be ruled by their courts, for the privilege of being able to buy their goods from them.

 

Deluded.

 

Should be over soon.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

Seems to me as an outsider that France wants to control British territory and Germany wants to control British tax and corporate policy. Essentially, Britain will be a colony of the EU, with its laws and resources controlled by the EU while the British don't even get a vote or say in the matter.

The fishing you might be right. But the other part about subsidies is totally fair that the EU wants the Brits to keep to the same rules that apply to the internal market. If they don't agree just don't give them access. It would be unfair competition if the Brits can subsidise an industry and in the EU they cant. That is no level playing field. So that is one thing that the Brits will have to accept.

 

I can understand them about the fishing, the EU should give in there. But the one market and its rules.. no way. If the Brits dont agree don't give them access. 

[ukrules]

The EU have issued what amounts to an ultimatum during negotiations.

 

In my mind that should be the end of any negotiations.

 

The UK will now either accept what the EU wants or go their own way.

 

Based on what I'm hearing from certain groups which I'm a member of we will be going our own way.

[welovesundaysatspace]

 

48 minutes ago, ukrules said:

The UK will now either accept what the EU wants or go their own way.

Or Boris will do what he’s best at: backpaddling and kicking the can down the road.

[Patts]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

The fishing you might be right. But the other part about subsidies is totally fair that the EU wants the Brits to keep to the same rules that apply to the internal market. If they don't agree just don't give them access. It would be unfair competition if the Brits can subsidise an industry and in the EU they cant. That is no level playing field. So that is one thing that the Brits will have to accept.

 

I can understand them about the fishing, the EU should give in there. But the one market and its rules.. no way. If the Brits dont agree don't give them access. 

We don't need access to the internal market, the UK buys considerably more from the EU than they do from the UK. If the EU don't won't to allow us access to the internal market then it is they who will lose.

 

"The EU, taken as a whole is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2019, UK exports to the EU were £300 billion (43% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £372 billion (51% of all UK imports)".

 

Why should the UK be held to ransom when we are at a £72 billion annual deficit and give the French and Dutch access to our already over fished waters!? 

[86Tiger]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

The EU have issued what amounts to an ultimatum during negotiations.

 

In my mind that should be the end of any negotiations.

 

The UK will now either accept what the EU wants or go their own way.

 

Based on what I'm hearing from certain groups which I'm a member of we will be going our own way.

Walk away.  don't give them squat.

 

You have the rest of the world to deal with on your own terms.  EU will not be missed.

[welovesundaysatspace]

7 minutes ago, Patts said:

We don't need access to the internal market, the UK buys considerably more from the EU than they do from the UK.

You’re either lacking logical reasoning skills or basic business acumen. Since you’re a Brexiteer, it’s probably both. 

 

 

[Patts]

11 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You’re either lacking logical reasoning skills or basic business acumen. Since you’re a Brexiteer, it’s probably both. 

 

 

Well please fell free to explain it to me as you're clearly much smarter?

 

leaving on WTO terms would still give us access to export and import with the EU plus allow us free to create new trade deals with the US, China, SE Asia etc. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Patts

[vogie]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You’re either lacking logical reasoning skills or basic business acumen. Since you’re a Brexiteer, it’s probably both. 

 

 

I guess you prefered the Brinoteers, when the EU said 'we want', Mrs May and Olly said 'when do you want it'

[robblok]

31 minutes ago, Patts said:

We don't need access to the internal market, the UK buys considerably more from the EU than they do from the UK. If the EU don't won't to allow us access to the internal market then it is they who will lose.

 

"The EU, taken as a whole is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2019, UK exports to the EU were £300 billion (43% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £372 billion (51% of all UK imports)".

 

Why should the UK be held to ransom when we are at a £72 billion annual deficit and give the French and Dutch access to our already over fished waters!? 

The fishing thing I don't care much about should be yours.

 

But its easier for the EU to lose 372 billion of exports then it is for the UK to lose 300 billion of exports. You say it yourself 43% of all exports. The percentage of EU exports as a total is far less. So your the guys in the weaker position. Even though your absolute numbers look impressive.

 

 

[Patts]

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

The fishing thing I don't care much about should be yours.

 

But its easier for the EU to lose 372 billion of exports then it is for the UK to lose 300 billion of exports. You say it yourself 43% of all exports. The percentage of EU exports as a total is far less. So your the guys in the weaker position. Even though your absolute numbers look impressive.

 

 

You are looking at it as if we would have zero trade with the EU if we didn't leave on their terms which is simply not the case.

 

If we leave without a deal, trade will continue via World Trade Organisation terms which would mean goods would likely take longer to import/export and be subject to taxes but we would still have access to the EU. 

 

On these terms would would also be free to make new trade agreements with the rest of the world which could lead to far more exports for the UK. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Patts

[Surelynot]

53 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

EU will not be missed

Oh dear.

[natway09]

The only real fishing beds left to catch anything of a decent commercial nature over 8 inches is Norwegian controlled.

Just about everywhere else in the vicinity has been raped

 

[ukrules]

Today is the day, they're not going to change anything in the UK

Edited October 16, 2020 by ukrules

[Loiner]

6 hours ago, John Drake said:

Seems to me as an outsider that France wants to control British territory and Germany wants to control British tax and corporate policy. Essentially, Britain will be a colony of the EU, with its laws and resources controlled by the EU while the British don't even get a vote or say in the matter.

That's a refreshing input with observation from a declared 'outsider', who gives an opinion of the situation status without any bias on what should be done, or why the UK is wrong or the EU right in every respect.

 

It's more than many of those even without any vested interest can offer. Thanks.

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Westminster does get a say in the matter. They can say no thanks and leave with no deal.

The bird sign springs to mind.... bye bye EU

[RayC]

54 minutes ago, Loiner said:

That's a refreshing input with observation from a declared 'outsider', who gives an opinion of the situation status without any bias on what should be done, or why the UK is wrong or the EU right in every respect.

 

It's more than many of those even without any vested interest can offer. Thanks.

I wonder if you would find posts from non-Europeans with a different perspective as 'refreshing'?

[Patts]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You’re either lacking logical reasoning skills or basic business acumen. Since you’re a Brexiteer, it’s probably both. 

 

 

Well I asked you to explain it to me and after a couple of hours you haven't! I am a business owner who manufactures electronics and exports all over the world so thanks for your assumption! 

[from the home of CC]

way too many inflated egos in the way for this to be solved satisfactorily for both parties..

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Yes, essentially they want us to hand over our waters and play by their rules on state aid and 'level playing field', and be ruled by their courts, for the privilege of being able to buy their goods from them.

 

Deluded.

 

Should be over soon.

When you as farang wants to do business inside Thailand, you have to do that in accordance with Thai laws, unless... you can make another agreement with the Thai governement ( special BOI rights etc)

When you as non-EU company/citizen wants do do business inside the EU, you have to do that in accordance with EU laws. When you want special rules, you have to make an agreement.

 

The EU want a same level of playing field for all businesses inside the EU, so inclusive the British business, especially the rules on state aid, where the British want to be able to support their businesses unhindered. 
Secondly, in the event of disagreement about, for example, state aid/support, dispute resolution is an important part of the process.

The UK refuses both.

Could you accept a US competition, who gets a 50% labour costs embursement or a 20 % export fee from the US gov. to compete inside the British Isles ? No complaint to make anywhere ?

 

A third, but stirred up by Brexiteers, are the British fishing grounds ( 0,12 % of British GDP) . For the French fishermen also of importance. The British forget, the majority of their fishing rights ( = quota) are already decades ago sold to other EU fishermen, for instance: 80% of the Welch quota out of the Welsh waters to Spanish fishermen.

The British want to cancel these sales ( as their Withdrawal act: even ratified, but now worth not even the ink it is signed with )

 

Sorry, the times the British could use theri Ships of the Line or gunboats lies a century behind us.

[puipuitom]

15 minutes ago, Patts said:

Well I asked you to explain it to me and after a couple of hours you haven't! I am a business owner who manufactures electronics and exports all over the world so thanks for your assumption! 

Can YOU imagine, the Japanese competition in your country get a licence free technology transfer or.. free-of-charge technical assistance / parts from Japan for 50% of the value from the Japanese gov, while you have to pay for all ? Complains only in your evening prayer ?

[Loiner]

30 minutes ago, RayC said:

I wonder if you would find posts from non-Europeans with a different perspective as 'refreshing'?

We've had a few of them on here for a while. When their adopted rabid Remainer rhetoric is not on suspension it gets so stale. That's especially true when they won't even admit they are not party to the issue, but come to enjoy a bit of Brit Bashing. 

[sidgy]

6 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

When you as farang wants to do business inside Thailand, you have to do that in accordance with Thai laws, unless... you can make another agreement with the Thai governement ( special BOI rights etc)

When you as non-EU company/citizen wants do do business inside the EU, you have to do that in accordance with EU laws. When you want special rules, you have to make an agreement.

i think any one wanted to do business inside the EU will do so according to EU laws, same as for any nation in the world and i dont think anyone is asking for special rules in this regard, if i am incorrect, please point me in the right direction

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Patts said:

You are looking at it as if we would have zero trade with the EU if we didn't leave on their terms which is simply not the case.

 

If we leave without a deal, trade will continue via World Trade Organisation terms which would mean goods would likely take longer to import/export and be subject to taxes but we would still have access to the EU. 

 

On these terms would would also be free to make new trade agreements with the rest of the world which could lead to far more exports for the UK. 

 

What you state is correct, but the reality is a lot more nuanced and complicated than you suggest.

 

Much depends on the type of product but, in the case of generic goods if we do trade on WTO terms, it will almost certainly be a lot more complicated and/or expensive for UK companies to switch supplier than it will be for their EU counterparts: That can't be good for UK businesses or consumers.

[BillStrangeOgre]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

...If the Brits dont agree don't give them access. 

Then where will we sell our fish? The EU will put tariffs on fish coming from the UK if they don't have access. 

[RayC]

Agreeing trading arrangements in goods was meant to be the easy part. Wait until they start on (financial) services ????. Unless scientists discover the elixir of youth, I'll almost certainly be pushing up daisies before that one's settled!