Jeffr2 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 13 hours ago, Sambotte said: Brutes numbers again ? Ok : We should not put 99% people in misery and lockdown (diverses freedom privation) for the benefit (a few more years to live with pre-existing conditions for most cases) of 1% ! Follow what Taiwan did. 2 week lockdown for a small part of the population, masks, social distancing, contract tracing...and they are back to normal. Not sure why other countries don't get it. Or, CV19 deniers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 23 hours ago, Mark Nothing said: If you think about the concept of "vaccine" logically it is ludicrous to take a perfectly healthy person and inject a foreign substance into the body in the name of health. It simply sucks the vitality and life out of you while the body attempts to erradicate the toxins leaving your body in a depleted state. It's extraordinary that any children survive their childhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraday Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, placeholder said: It's extraordinary that any children survive their childhood. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042373/united-kingdom-all-time-infant-mortality-rate/#:~:text=The infant mortality rate in,this number has dropped significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 The author of the article cited, Peter Doshi, is also sceptical of flu vaccines http://theorcpa.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/John-Hopkins-Study.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya Spotter Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, placeholder said: The author of the article cited, Peter Doshi, is also sceptical of flu vaccines http://theorcpa.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/John-Hopkins-Study.pdf Yes, Doshi points out in the article that despite wider uptake of the annual influenza vaccine over the years, the number of deaths per year is relatively constant. If I understand his argument, it's similar to the one he's making about the current round of SARS-CoV-2 vaccine trials...that they aren't being tested enough on people who are most susceptible to serious outcomes if they get the virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Just now, Pattaya Spotter said: Yes, Doshi points out in the article that despite wider uptake of the annual influenza vaccine over the years, the number of deaths per year is relatively constant. If I understand his argument, it's similar to the one he's making about the current round of SARS-CoV-2 vaccine trials...that they aren't being tested enough on people who are most susceptible to serious outcomes if they get the virus. First off, whatever the article did say, it did not say "Vaccines Not Looking Good...Only 30% Efficacy" Here's what it did say on that score: "In a sobering essay, Doshi said those hoping for a breakthrough to end the pandemic would be disappointed, with some vaccines likely to reduce the risk of COVID-19 infection by only 30%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya Spotter Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, placeholder said: with some vaccines likely to reduce the risk of COVID-19 infection by only 30% Yes, that's what 30% efficacy means...if you take the vaccine and are exposed to an infectious dose of the virus, you're 70% likely to get it and 30% not. I also posted the link to the original BMJ article, which I have read, for anyone who wanted to review the primary source material. Do you have a "second off"? Edited October 23, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Two sick and one dead in the Oxford trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartender100 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 On 10/22/2020 at 1:47 PM, Mark Nothing said: If you think about the concept of "vaccine" logically it is ludicrous to take a perfectly healthy person and inject a foreign substance into the body in the name of health. It simply sucks the vitality and life out of you while the body attempts to erradicate the toxins leaving your body in a depleted state. Diseases You Almost Forgot About (Thanks to Vaccines) https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/forgot-14-diseases.html Vaccines seemed to have worked very well in the past 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nout Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 On 10/22/2020 at 7:05 PM, Pattaya Spotter said: Thalidomide is a drug, given to sick people, not a vaccine given to healthy people. The standards are different. Absolute rubbish..Thalidomide was given to pregnant women in the 50s to prevent morning sickness which had dreadful side effects on their children 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said: Yes, that's what 30% efficacy means...if you take the vaccine and are exposed to an infectious dose of the virus, you're 70% likely to get it and 30% not. I also posted the link to the original BMJ article, which I have read, for anyone who wanted to review the primary source material. Do you have a "second off"? Do you understand what it means when he writes "some vaccines"? That it doesn't mean the same thing as all vaccines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemo38 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I am never going to take an mRNA vaccine. I am not at risk and Covid isn't dangerous enough to justify the lockdowns we have seen. I believe that Sweden exists and managed to get on with life without trashing their economy. We need to hold the Covid promoters to account, with life jail sentences and stiffer penalties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onebir Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 34 minutes ago, nemo38 said: I am never going to take an mRNA vaccine. Has anyone seen an explanation of the supposed advantages of mRNA vaccines? (I'm wary of them too.) 35 minutes ago, nemo38 said: I believe that Sweden exists and managed to get on with life without trashing their economy. New Zealand (with 25 deaths) has done far better than Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Off-topic meme removed. This is a discussion forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya Spotter Posted October 24, 2020 Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Nout said: Absolute rubbish..Thalidomide was given to pregnant women in the 50s to prevent morning sickness which had dreadful side effects on their children Drugs and vaccines are both therapies given to treat/prevent adverse medical conditions, and are throughly tested for safety before being used. However, drugs are generally given to already sick people and vaccines are given to healthy people to prevent illness/disease. The standards and ethics of using them are different for this reason. The experience with Thalidomide (drug) demonstrates why thorough safety testing is necessary before any Covid-19 vaccine is approved. Edited October 24, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya Spotter Posted October 24, 2020 Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, placeholder said: Do you understand what it means when he writes "some vaccines"? That it doesn't mean the same thing as all vaccines? Who said "all vaccines"? The author is referencing those currently in Phase 3 trials. Edited October 24, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said: Who said "all vaccines"? The author is referencing those currently in Phase 3 trials. Really? Where in the article does it say he is reference all those currently in Phase 3 trials? "In a sobering essay, Doshi said those hoping for a breakthrough to end the pandemic would be disappointed, with some vaccines likely to reduce the risk of COVID-19 infection by only 30%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya Spotter Posted October 24, 2020 Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, placeholder said: Really? Where in the article does it say he is reference all those currently in Phase 3 trials? "In a sobering essay, Doshi said those hoping for a breakthrough to end the pandemic would be disappointed, with some vaccines likely to reduce the risk of COVID-19 infection by only 30%." Have you read the actual BMJ Doshi article...I have and that's where he makes the statement. That is what I am referring to. Edited October 24, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelepulse Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 This makes total sense to vaccinate everyone when the figures for people under 70 indicate a .05 ifr. Why not vaccinate all the people that will simply fight off the virus and carry on with life? https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf Profits before people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 On 10/23/2020 at 12:39 AM, BritManToo said: Isn't that ZERO% efficiency? Perhaps they cause a reduction in NONE serious outcomes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Some of us have been saying that the vaccine isn't necessarily going to be the magic bullet, and I'm wondering if one doesn't succeed what plan B is? Do they even have a plan B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya Spotter Posted October 24, 2020 Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Some of us have been saying that the vaccine isn't necessarily going to be the magic bullet, and I'm wondering if one doesn't succeed what plan B is? Do they even have a plan B? Treatment of Covid-19 disease with mono/polyclonal antibody therapies (which Trump received) is one fallback. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surelynot Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 15 hours ago, placeholder said: On 10/22/2020 at 1:47 PM, Mark Nothing said: If you think about the concept of "vaccine" logically it is ludicrous to take a perfectly healthy person and inject a foreign substance into the body in the name of health. It simply sucks the vitality and life out of you while the body attempts to erradicate the toxins leaving your body in a depleted state. The toxins are produced by the live virus during a real infection, not by the immune system attacking an inert version of the virus....ie a vaccine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivas Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Reviweing all the articles on Astrazeneca and they are very close to giving the green light as early as 12th November. Of course that wont open up Thailand overnight and obviously the vaccination programme will be huge but I for one will first in the queue at the earlist opportunity Astrazeneca are always the Company that have sold the vaccine to Thailand already. Its clear the "market" knows as all travel stocks started to surge this week just gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivas Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Wheres the edit button gone lol ??? Apologies re the above post I assume its some system failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya Spotter Posted October 24, 2020 Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Chivas said: Wheres the edit button gone lol ??? Apologies re the above post I assume its some system failure The 3 dots on the upper-right of your post...we're all on a learning curve ???? Edited October 24, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: Perhaps they cause a reduction in NONE serious outcomes? Would you take a (largely untested) vaccine to reduce sniffles a bit? Edited October 24, 2020 by BritManToo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nout Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 12 hours ago, nemo38 said: I am never going to take an mRNA vaccine. I am not at risk and Covid isn't dangerous enough to justify the lockdowns we have seen. I believe that Sweden exists and managed to get on with life without trashing their economy. We need to hold the Covid promoters to account, with life jail sentences and stiffer penalties. 90% a drivel of misleading and incoherent non sequitur. Each point is a separate issue and needs to be discussed as such. Mrna is a life saver and is excellent. As an export driven economy Sweden did get a great deal of its economy damaged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya Spotter Posted October 24, 2020 Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, BritManToo said: Would you take a (largely untested) vaccine to reduce sniffles a bit? At least for those of us residing in Thailand, there is no need to rush out and get the vaccine, unless one was going on an international trip. I for one will probably hang-back 6 months to a year until more wide-spread safety data is available before getting the jab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Since they haven't developed a vaccine for the SARS coronavirus that kicked off almost 17 years go and weren't successful in getting one for the far more deadly MERS coronavirus from about 8 years ago either, why on earth would anyone be holding out hope for a silver bullet for this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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