Why does the UK suffer such huge death rates from Covid?

[Natai Beach]

1 hour ago, Patts said:

You are talking utter nonsense. Testing increased at an incredible rate considering no one knew what to expect and we have had one of the highest number of tests per million for the past 4 months or so. In fact the only countries that have done more tests per million are those with very small populations of less than 10 million people!

 

The UK's infection rate is 39rd in the world per million, so nowhere near the worst, might want to check your facts before spreading lies.

 

Deaths per 1 million population:

 

Past 4 months or so? 
 

A bit late mate. 40,000 had already dead by June 1. 

 

And the U.K. testing numbers were made up and exaggerated. Just google it. It was a balls up until May.

 

Then they brought in the Eat Out subsidy. Probably one of the dumbest things I have seen for the year. One day stuck at home isolating and wearing a mask to stop the spread, the next day crowding in together for free food. A bit hard to mask up when eating and social distance in a restaurant with staff and diners. 

Eat out spread covid even more creating this second wave. The idea of a lockdown is to socially isolate to stop the spread. The Eat Out idea is the exact opposite and they made taxpayers pay for it????

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-04/boris-johnson-says-eat-out-drive-may-have-spread-covid-in-u-k

 

I am not lying. Perhaps the politicians you are listening to are?
 

The huge death numbers in the U.K. are because of numerous reasons, they are the highest in Europe because

1) sending covid positive into nursing homes

2) NHS workers having no gear to wear, getting infected and spreading it

3) government advice NOT to wear a mask.
4) too slow closing of the borders and letting in millions of people from high infection countries.

5) too slow to lockdown
6) a weak lockdown

7) no temperature road stops or even in crowded supermarkets etc

8 very weak police enforcement 

9) Eat Out handout

10,11, 12 etc etc etc

I hope they can sort it out soon, but after 9 months of covid they still don’t have a clue. Deaths and cases are rising again, more lockdowns, people going bankrupt etc.
 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Natai Beach

[fvw53]

20 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

The UK have fudged the books a tad by eliminating anyone passing away from Covid after 28 days. Yet the question remains, why are they still suffering from such catastrophic numbers? 

 

Even in the first wave, they suffered badly. Now onto the second wave, compared to many countries with equal covid numbers, they are still seeing masses dying. 

 

What on earth is going on here? 

 

How on earth have these Asian countries like Singapore, or Arab countries like UAE managed to have such small numbers of deaths despite huge covid infections per 100,000 people? 

 

Very high percentage of Neanderthaler genes ?

https://www.dw.com/en/neanderthal-gene-increases-risk-of-severe-coronavirus-study/a-55112474

[roo860]

6 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

Past 4 months or so? 
 

A bit late mate. 40,000 had already dead by June 1. 

 

And the U.K. testing numbers were made up and exaggerated. Just google it. It was a balls up until May.

 

Then they brought in the Eat Out subsidy. Probably one of the dumbest things I have seen for the year. One day stuck at home isolating and wearing a mask to stop the spread, the next day crowding in together for free food. A bit hard to mask up when eating and social distance in a restaurant with staff and diners. 

Eat out spread covid even more creating this second wave. The idea of a lockdown is to socially isolate to stop the spread. The Eat Out idea is the exact opposite and they made taxpayers pay for it????

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-04/boris-johnson-says-eat-out-drive-may-have-spread-covid-in-u-k

 

I am not lying. Perhaps the politicians you are listening to are?
 

The huge death numbers in the U.K. are because of numerous reasons, they are the highest in Europe because

1) sending covid positive into nursing homes

2) NHS workers having no gear to wear, getting infected and spreading it

3) government advice NOT to wear a mask.
4) too slow closing of the borders and letting in millions of people from high infection countries.

5) too slow to lockdown
6) a weak lockdown

7) no temperature road stops or even in crowded supermarkets etc

8 very weak police enforcement 

9) Eat Out handout

10,11, 12 etc etc etc

I hope they can sort it out soon, but after 9 months of covid they still don’t have a clue. Deaths and cases are rising again, more lockdowns, people going bankrupt etc.
 

 

 

[Migrosmarket]

The NHS spends all its time trying to keep alive people who have self inflicted illnesses (from smoking, excessive eating and drinking and drug misuse) or extreme old age.

 

Its these people that die so easily of covid. 

 

Countries with a more realistic approach to healthcare have different death profiles.

[Migrosmarket]

5 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

That would wipe out 80% of this forum.

Judging by most of the comments we see on all subjects that would be a good thing.

[Thingamabob]

The fact is that almost all governments in cooler regions are getting criticism, not only the UK. Latter made a bad, sad early mistake in returning elderly people from hospitals to care homes, but otherwise it's performance is not markedly different from other similar countries.

[slappy]

The UK is a very small place, area wise considering to France Germany Thailand. And bigger population. So my thoughts of the reason is " two many packed together on a small island!

[Patts]

1 hour ago, Natai Beach said:

Past 4 months or so? 
 

A bit late mate. 40,000 had already dead by June 1. 

 

And the U.K. testing numbers were made up and exaggerated. Just google it. It was a balls up until May.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-04/boris-johnson-says-eat-out-drive-may-have-spread-covid-in-u-k

 

I am not lying. Perhaps the politicians you are listening to are?

 

 

I have googled and nothing appears about " U.K. testing numbers were made up and exaggerated" 

 

You claimed the UK's infection rate is one of the worst but I have already provided you with the stats that show we are ranked 39th, nowhere near the worst, not even in the top ten so yes you were lying. 

 

I'm not disputing the fact that the government should have taken more drastic action such as closing our boarders to all international travel, mandating masks to be worn in public and temperatures to be taken when entering businesses. I also believe the law enforcement haven't been tough enough on people not following the rules.

[hugocnx]

From the news: UK Police Force Says it Will Break Up Christmas Gatherings to Enforce COVID Rules.

From me: Is it going really that bad with Covid or just with the Police; is it getting fascistic now in the UK? 

[AndrewMciver]

6 hours ago, Patts said:

You are talking utter nonsense. Testing increased at an incredible rate considering no one knew what to expect and we have had one of the highest number of tests per million for the past 4 months or so. In fact the only countries that have done more tests per million are those with very small populations of less than 10 million people!

 

The UK's infection rate is 39rd in the world per million, so nowhere near the worst, might want to check your facts before spreading lies.

 

Deaths per 1 million population:

 

 

In the early stages we were barely testing anybody other than key workers. It is believed we were having 100,000 infections a day at this point. 

[AndrewMciver]

3 hours ago, Patts said:

 

 

You claimed the UK's infection rate is one of the worst but I have already provided you with the stats that show we are ranked 39th, nowhere near the worst, not even in the top ten so yes you were lying. 

 

 

Back in March and April the testing was way down. It is believed we had 100,000 infections a day at the height - hence your argument we are 39th is nonsense. 

 

A true accurate figure is the excess death rate and the UK has one of the highest in the world. 

 

It was squandered all that hard work and effort of lockdown, by opening up with no measures in place. How idiotic was that? LETS JUST OPEN and the virus will have gone type idiotic thinking. There is no effective track and trace system. We paid 12 billion for a glorified call centre asking people to politely stay at home. Most ignore these requests.

 

Go look at track and trace systems in Korea, Singapore, Japan, now even India - active boots on the ground (not tucked away in a call centre). 

 

I simply don't get why we are keeping borders open either. We never closed our borders either, one of the few countries not to do so. I find it incredible we are seeing flights from India, USA, Brazil just arriving into the UK with a polite request to quarantine. 

 

Had we simply locked down early, kep the borders closed, and kept up a track and trace system we could be out this mess now. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by AndrewMciver

[Letseng]

On 10/27/2020 at 4:52 PM, AndrewMciver said:

The UK have fudged the books a tad by eliminating anyone passing away from Covid after 28 days. Yet the question remains, why are they still suffering from such catastrophic numbers? 

 

Even in the first wave, they suffered badly. Now onto the second wave, compared to many countries with equal covid numbers, they are still seeing masses dying. 

 

What on earth is going on here? 

 

How on earth have these Asian countries like Singapore, or Arab countries like UAE managed to have such small numbers of deaths despite huge covid infections per 100,000 people? 

They imposed rules strictly, had supervised quarantine. In Europe everwhere people do what they like, fines aren't imposed (talking about Austria, Germany). Eyrope opened up too quickly. Singapore is only starting to open phase 3 e.g. movies, theatre, events.

[Letseng]

55 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

 

Back in March and April the testing was way down. It is believed we had 100,000 infections a day at the height - hence your argument we are 39th is nonsense. 

 

A true accurate figure is the excess death rate and the UK has one of the highest in the world. 

 

It was squandered all that hard work and effort of lockdown, by opening up with no measures in place. How idiotic was that? LETS JUST OPEN and the virus will have gone type idiotic thinking. There is no effective track and trace system. We paid 12 billion for a glorified call centre asking people to politely stay at home. Most ignore these requests.

 

Go look at track and trace systems in Korea, Singapore, Japan, now even India - active boots on the ground (not tucked away in a call centre). 

 

I simply don't get why we are keeping borders open either. We never closed our borders either, one of the few countries not to do so. I find it incredible we are seeing flights from India, USA, Brazil just arriving into the UK with a polite request to quarantine. 

 

Had we simply locked down early, kep the borders closed, and kept up a track and trace system we could be out this mess now. 

And perhaps better testing for care homes, PPE and not transfer infected patients back to care homes to free hospital beds.

[faraday]

8 hours ago, Migrosmarket said:

The NHS spends all its time trying to keep alive people who have self inflicted illnesses (from smoking, excessive eating and drinking and drug misuse) or extreme old age.

 

Its these people that die so easily of covid. 

 

Countries with a more realistic approach to healthcare have different death profiles.

Yea, that Zyklon B was a roaring success. 

 

I can only hope that I've misunderstood your last sentence.

 

 

[Tounge Thaied]

Just go source the experts... you Johnny come lately's can't be trusted. 

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/professor-lockdown-modeler-resigns-in-disgrace/

[faraday]

Quoting the last sentence from the above link:

 

"So the real scandal is: Why did anyone ever listen to this guy?""

 

And why did they - that is, the governments, act on his advice for so long?

[Scott]

Posters may want to look at the OP and stay on topic.  Not doing so could lead to a warning and possible suspension.  

 

[sandyf]

On 10/28/2020 at 1:33 AM, AndrewMciver said:

 

Bloody hell 367 deaths today. Horrific. 

 

As for excess deaths, the UK has one of the highest excess death rates in the world this year. 

Quite. The only figure that means anything, deaths over and above the long term average. In the middle of the year Thailand was about 2% above the average and the UK 43%.

Consideration of excess deaths takes covid out of the equation, as a result of the pandemic many have died in the UK for other reasons, many due to delays in treatment. Thailand on the other hand benefited from the lockdown with a reduction in RTAs.

Very little problem getting treated here in Thailand at a government hospital and everyone should be thankful to the government for keeping it that way.

[Humpy]

Because most Brits couldn't give a flying f£$K about the measures to curb the spread.

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, Humpy said:

Because most Brits couldn't give a flying f£$K about the measures to curb the spread.

And I agree with them,

Live your life, accept death when it comes.

 

It's the British way, always has been.

Edited October 29, 2020 by BritManToo

[Nanaplaza666]

On 10/28/2020 at 3:10 AM, dimitriv said:

 

So you make a statement now, but you will wait till the beginning of the next year to prove it?

 

I think the article I quoted clearly says that the number of monthly deaths is higher this year than in previous years. At least in NL.

 

In Italy it is the same. Here a nice graph comparing the monthly deaths last year with this year: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109552/monthly-number-of-deaths-in-italy/

 

 

 

Do you see the number of deaths going up starting March?  That was the time of the first Covid outbreak in Italy. Or don't you see a "statistically significant deviation" ?  

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but the outbreak and deathtolls in italy specially atalanta bergamo was so severe you can't tell me that the nr of deaths hasn't increased compared to the years before . And look at the US or Brazile or Russia , you can't say that the nr's didn't go up there as well compared to previous years so in my opinion not all "statistics" are painting the right pictures . 

[Tounge Thaied]

"The Darkest Winter" is upon us.

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 10/28/2020 at 2:22 AM, dimitriv said:

 

Do you have sources for your statement?  

 

What I read is very different:

 

Over the past few weeks, mortality in the Netherlands has been higher than the average figures recorded in previous years. There were 3,575 deaths in week 12 (ending 22 March). This is 443 more than the average weekly figure in the first ten weeks of this year. For week 13 (ending 29 March), the number of deaths is estimated at around 4,300. The estimate has been based on the number of death certificates received by Statistics Netherlands (CBS) for week 13. These figures have been reported by CBS and the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment (RIVM) on the basis of national provisional counts of the number of deaths per week.

 

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2020/14/mortality-rising

 

 

 

March??

The virus had barely taken foothold back then. Any more current data? 

[Salerno]

42 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Any more current data? 

 

[mrwebb8825]

On 10/27/2020 at 10:52 PM, AndrewMciver said:

The UK have fudged the books a tad by eliminating anyone passing away from Covid after 28 days. Yet the question remains, why are they still suffering from such catastrophic numbers? 

 

Even in the first wave, they suffered badly. Now onto the second wave, compared to many countries with equal covid numbers, they are still seeing masses dying. 

 

What on earth is going on here? 

 

How on earth have these Asian countries like Singapore, or Arab countries like UAE managed to have such small numbers of deaths despite huge covid infections per 100,000 people? 

Karma

[3NUMBAS]

ethnic areas of the north of england may hold some clues ,overweight black women are most at risk says docs ,possibly too many folks living in small houses

[KhaoYai]

On 10/27/2020 at 10:08 PM, tribalfusion001 said:

361 with underlying conditions, it's the same everyday. Sad, but not worth the economic mess being created with the restrictions.

And you know that those 361 people would have died anyway do you Doctor?  Are we now saying that its OK for people with 'underlying conditions' to die?  Their health matters less? We should not put restrictions in place because their health doesn't matter?

 

There's some history in that type of thinking - a certain German 'gentleman' called Adolf had a similar mindset. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted by your point of view.

 

I would also advise you, not that I have any sympathy at all for that type of thinking, that you cannot rely on the term 'underlying conditions' in the way you seem to be.  'Underlying Conditions' covers a wide spectrum of health issues.  I have an 'underlying condition' - its serious but I have a good few years yet.  I am no more liable to die from Covid 19 than anyone else in my age group. Yet if I died from the virus, I would be classified as having and 'underlying condition'.

Edited October 29, 2020 by KhaoYai

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

And you know that those 361 people would have died anyway do you Doctor?  Are we now saying that its OK for people with 'underlying conditions' to die?  Their health matters less? We should not put restrictions in place because their health doesn't matter?

 

There's some history in that type of thinking - a certain German 'gentleman' called Adolf had a similar mindset.

 

I would also advise you, not that I have any sympathy at all for that type of thinking, that you cannot rely on the term 'underlying conditions' in the way you seem to be.  'Underlying Conditions' covers a wide spectrum of health issues.  I have an 'underlying condition' - its serious but I have a good few years yet.  I am no more liable to die from Covid 19 than anyone else in my age group. Yes if I died from the virus, I would be classified as having and 'underlying condition'.

 

I wonder if those who have passed with Covid-19 and comorbidity would have passed with influenza and comorbidity ?

 

i.e. would those who have sadly passed and had their deaths attributed to Covid-19 (died with Covid-19) - would those same people have died within the next few weeks anyway, would influenza or a common cold have 'tipped them over the edge’ or is their death directly attributed to the respiratory complications from Covid-19 ???? i.e. has Covid-19 stollen weeks, months or even years of the remaining lives of those with ‘underlying conditions’ ?

 

 

 

My Father is 83, relatively healthy and active, but takes a range of tablets, he’s diabetic (takes tablets, no insulin). 

I wonder if Influenza would enough to take his life. Would the equivalent of the H1N1 Pandemic in 2009 taken his life?

OR, would he survive those, but he couldn’t survive Covid-19 ????

 

How much more veracious is Covid-19 than the H1N1 outbreak in 2009 ????? 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 10/28/2020 at 10:26 AM, NorthernRyland said:

Here's excess deaths in the US. Considering 70% of deaths were people over 70 it's not *that* bad in terms of years of life lost. It only looks like a catastrophe when you start tallying together all deaths on aggregate and repeating the number over and over again to the public. 

Source?

What does the red crosses indicate?

[dimitriv]

6 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

March??

The virus had barely taken foothold back then. Any more current data? 

 

March was (at least in NL) the first month the virus hit. And the graph clearly shows the number of excess deaths going up. There were no Covid tests at all at that moment, so no numbers about people infected with Covid.