17 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Not at all. It makes sense for the UK to allow limited access to EU boats until we can rebuild our industry after the EU's CFP destroyed it.

 

It was the Common Fisheries policy; not the antiUK Fisheries Policy; it applied to all member states with a fishing industry; still does. 

 

The UK EEZ does represent a significant part of the area in which other EU member states are accustomed to fish. It is also worth recalling that the UK has never actually had exclusive control over its own 200-mile EEZ. When the UK joined the EEC in 1973 its fishery limits only extended out to 12 miles, and some other European countries already had historical fishing rights in the 6-12 mile zone (rights that were written into the UK’s accession treaty, and subsequently into the CFP). Beyond 12 miles were international waters, open to all. It was only in the late 1970s that the EEC Member States, acting in concert, extended their EEZs out to 200 miles, forming a de facto European fishing “pond” to which equal access had already been enshrined in the very first of the CFP regulations.(source)

 

As for quotas, or TACs, these were first brought in to protect dwindling stocks of the most popular North Atlantic fish; mainly cod which was approaching extinction. So harsh quotas were applied until the stocks had reached a more sustainable level. Licences to fish in a member's waters were issued by that member's government and UK government issued them to UK fleet owners. But unlike other governments they allowed those licence holders to sell their licences on to whomsoever they pleased.

 

So the many of the British fleet owners took the short term view, went for immediate profit and sold their licences to foreign fleet owners who were taking a more long term view and planning for the future. In so doing, the British fleet owners threw most of their employees onto the dole. (source)

 

15 hours ago, evadgib said:

Seen yesterday from HMG

UK and Greenland strengthen cooperation on fisheries

(I'm unable to shrink the font on this device)

 

Lot of waffle; little substance.

 

Does it mean we're going to let Greenland fish in our waters; the other way around or both?

49 minutes ago, tebee said:

Well, we've got the Brexiters in charge now, they are heading for unmitigated disaster Brexit - is that what you all wanted ? 

 

Well at least you acknowledge that we have not been led by Brexiteers for most of the time. We will see how committed this lot are. 

 

Remain have been citing this 'disaster' since before the referendum - obviously a matter of opinion - but to me the disaster would be not leaving. Becoming free of the EU was never going to be easy (I have always said and expected that) but few here ever seem to question why that is? 

14 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Mid term opinion polls aren't really that important. What's important are general elections and referendums. Like the IndyRef in 2014, the Brexit vote in 2016 and the GE in 2019. 

 

How did they go for you? ????

 

I'm English and a Unionist; but I also prefer facts to lazy insults.

 

Independence lost in 2014; but that was a vote to remain in a UK which was a EU member.

 

Remain won in Scotland in 2016.

 

In December 2019 the SNP increased their share of the vote in Scotland by 8.1% and gained an extra 13 seats at Westminster. Giving them 48 of the 59 Scottish seats.

 

They didn't do very well in the rest of the UK. But there's a good reason for that; they didn't field any candidates there!

13 hours ago, transam said:

Once voters get in that election booth, look over their shoulder, then tick their real thoughts box, you will find out the real truth after the ballot box count...????

 

Then you have nothing to fear from another Scottish independence referendum.

27 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

It was the Common Fisheries policy; not the antiUK Fisheries Policy; it applied to all member states with a fishing industry; still does. 

 

The UK EEZ does represent a significant part of the area in which other EU member states are accustomed to fish. It is also worth recalling that the UK has never actually had exclusive control over its own 200-mile EEZ. When the UK joined the EEC in 1973 its fishery limits only extended out to 12 miles, and some other European countries already had historical fishing rights in the 6-12 mile zone (rights that were written into the UK’s accession treaty, and subsequently into the CFP). Beyond 12 miles were international waters, open to all. It was only in the late 1970s that the EEC Member States, acting in concert, extended their EEZs out to 200 miles, forming a de facto European fishing “pond” to which equal access had already been enshrined in the very first of the CFP regulations.(source)

 

As for quotas, or TACs, these were first brought in to protect dwindling stocks of the most popular North Atlantic fish; mainly cod which was approaching extinction. So harsh quotas were applied until the stocks had reached a more sustainable level. Licences to fish in a member's waters were issued by that member's government and UK government issued them to UK fleet owners. But unlike other governments they allowed those licence holders to sell their licences on to whomsoever they pleased.

 

So the many of the British fleet owners took the short term view, went for immediate profit and sold their licences to foreign fleet owners who were taking a more long term view and planning for the future. In so doing, the British fleet owners threw most of their employees onto the dole. (source)

 

 

The UK has always had nominal control of its own 200-mile EEZ but the CFP overruled the control of the fishing within it. Now we will have full control. The EU doesn't like that. 

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Well at least you acknowledge that we have not been led by Brexiteers for most of the time. We will see how committed this lot are. 

 

.....

 

 

Well if they didn't have enough after they got control, why didn't they extend transition  and give themselves time to organize the Brexit they wanted ? 

 

Instead they commit hari-kari and fall onto the ceremonial sword of a brexit that will wreck the county, literally breaking it up.

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

 

Well if they didn't have enough after they got control, why didn't they extend transition  and give themselves time to organize the Brexit they wanted ? 

 

Instead they commit hari-kari and fall onto the ceremonial sword of a brexit that will wreck the county, literally breaking it up.

 

I really don't think an extension of an extension of an extension would have made much difference except to make leaving even more difficult. 

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

The UK has always had nominal control of its own 200-mile EEZ but the CFP overruled the control of the fishing within it. Now we will have full control. The EU doesn't like that. 

 

What control the UK may have had over our EEZ was lost due to the UK government allowing UK fleet owners to sell their licences.

 

But perhaps you'd be happy to return to the situation we had prior to our joining? Control over a 12 mile limit only!

8 hours ago, vogie said:

No point in voting then if that vote is going to be meaningless. I just wonder how many remainers on here would share your line of reasoning, if for the next 4 years pro Trump supporters went on about it not being fair that Joe Biden was voted in as POTUS and tried their best to overturn that result. Which brings me to a more important point, what does it say about the President elect not respecting another countries democratic vote, not very democratic now is it.

Accepting a vote is not the same thing as opposing it’s outcome.

 

A foreign government has every right to push for its own agenda, they are not subject to your vote, refer ‘accepting a vote is not the same thing as opposing its outcome’.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 20205 yr by Chomper Higgot

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

What control the UK may have had over our EEZ was lost due to the UK government allowing UK fleet owners to sell their licences.

 

But perhaps you'd be happy to return to the situation we had prior to our joining? Control over a 12 mile limit only!

Facts like this don’t work, it’s jingoism and emotions you are arguing with.

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Democrats.

 

Changing the direction of a nation by peaceful means is a core principle of democracy.

 

Holding and expressing political views is a core principle of democracy.

 

 

Chomper championing Democracy? ????

 

You've done nothing but support overturning the Democratic vote for 4.5 years. 

 

I'm amazed you have the nerve to even type that. Chomper and Democracy in the same sentence? ???????????? 

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Chomper championing Democracy? ????

 

You've done nothing but support overturning the Democratic vote for 4.5 years. 

 

I'm amazed you have the nerve to even type that. Chomper and Democracy in the same sentence? ???????????? 

And your defense of democracy is personal attacks on those who hold and express different views to yourself.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And your defense of democracy is personal attacks on those who hold and express different views to yourself.

 

 

Truthfully, I have nothing but contempt for people who try to reverse/overturn/ignore/re-run Democratic votes when they don't like the result.

 

It's even more nauseating when they simultaneously ridicule the majority who voted that way, falsely labeling them as racists/bigots, creating strawman arguments to attack them with, and then having the gall to pretend to champion Democracy .

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deals-continuity-exports-mexico-turkey-canada-b1444977.html

 

British businesses are facing disruption to as much as £80bn of global trade because of Boris Johnson’s failure to roll over 15 EU trade deals with other countries in time.

 

Another monumental cock-up in the waiting....will it never end?

9 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deals-continuity-exports-mexico-turkey-canada-b1444977.html

 

British businesses are facing disruption to as much as £80bn of global trade because of Boris Johnson’s failure to roll over 15 EU trade deals with other countries in time.

 

Another monumental cock-up in the waiting....will it never end?

It will end eventually. When whats left of the UK applies to rejoin the EU ????

7 hours ago, tebee said:

Well, we've got the Brexiters in charge now, they are heading for unmitigated disaster Brexit - is that what you all wanted ? 

He's back....................????

 

 

 

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Lot of waffle; little substance.

 

Does it mean we're going to let Greenland fish in our waters; the other way around or both?

One day you will like something the UK government does instead of trashing everything..

How can you be such an anti-British Brit.......?

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And your defense of democracy is personal attacks on those who hold and express different views to yourself.

 

 

And your lot haven't, tut, tut.......?.........????

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Accepting a vote is not the same thing as opposing it’s outcome.

 

A foreign government has every right to push for its own agenda, they are not subject to your vote, refer ‘accepting a vote is not the same thing as opposing its outcome’.

 

 

 

Since when have you or any other denier of democracy accepted the referendum result, never.

But you could be on to something here, I tried Chomper democracy in my household last night. I said to my family we are going to have a vote on what we do tomorrow, the choices are 1. Going to the beach, or 2. Going to the zoo. We all voted and it turned out that it was 4 to 1 in favour of going to the zoo, welI wasn't too happy about that, I wanted to go to the beach. So I shouted at my family, I called them all stupid, I said you didn't know what you were voting for and told them that their mother had been lying to them, and I don't care how long it takes, 4 years, 5 years, longer if necessary, we will go no-where untill they accept that I was right all along. 

 

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Truthfully, I have nothing but contempt for people who try to reverse/overturn/ignore/re-run Democratic votes when they don't like the result.

 

It's even more nauseating when they simultaneously ridicule the majority who voted that way, falsely labeling them as racists/bigots, creating strawman arguments to attack them with, and then having the gall to pretend to champion Democracy .

 

I’m not sure your contempt is a meaningful argument, had Remain won in the referendum by the same margin  I suspect you’d be on board with Farage’s ‘Game not over by a long way’.

 

Can you please provide a link to anywhere I have accused you, or Brexiteers in general of being a racists or a bigots?

 

1 hour ago, transam said:

One day you will like something the UK government does instead of trashing everything..

How can you be such an anti-British Brit.......?

There we go again with the baseless ‘Anti-Brit’ slur.

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Since when have you or any other denier of democracy accepted the referendum result, never.

But you could be on to something here, I tried Chomper democracy in my household last night. I said to my family we are going to have a vote on what we do tomorrow, the choices are 1. Going to the beach, or 2. Going to the zoo. We all voted and it turned out that it was 4 to 1 in favour of going to the zoo, welI wasn't too happy about that, I wanted to go to the beach. So I shouted at my family, I called them all stupid, I said you didn't know what you were voting for and told them that their mother had been lying to them, and I don't care how long it takes, 4 years, 5 years, longer if necessary, we will go no-where untill they accept that I was right all along. 

 

As a general rule it’s not a good idea to introduce your family into an online discussion with strangers.

 

So shall we let that pass?!

42 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not sure your contempt is a meaningful argument, had Remain won in the referendum by the same margin  I suspect you’d be on board with Farage’s ‘Game not over by a long way’.

 

Can you please provide a link to anywhere I have accused you, or Brexiteers in general of being a racists or a bigots?

 

 

Nobody cares what you suspect. I would have accepted a Remain victory 100%. Because I am a grown adult who respects Democracy, unlike many Remainers. 

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Nobody cares what you suspect. I would have accepted a Remain victory 100%. Because I am a grown adult who respects Democracy, unlike many Remainers. 

And, of course, the same applies the other way round and nobody cares what you consider “Democracy” or “a grown adult” to do.  

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There we go again with the baseless ‘Anti-Brit’ slur.

Slur, forum rules prevent me from saying what I want to say .....????

Preferential tariffs continue for eligible developing countries

Quote

Government announces that removals and reductions of tariffs on goods from developing countries to continue after the end of the transition period

 

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

What control the UK may have had over our EEZ was lost due to the UK government allowing UK fleet owners to sell their licences.

 

But perhaps you'd be happy to return to the situation we had prior to our joining? Control over a 12 mile limit only!

 

You seem to think that the EEZ is only concerned with fishing. What rubbish.

 

23 hours ago, JonnyF said:

The EU have their own problems with the US. You could just as well argue that the escalating trade tensions between the US and the EU make the EU increasingly need a deal with the UK.

Only the delusional would think that the EU needs the US, it was the EU that told Trump to get stuffed.

Trump believes in divide and conquer, and the UK fell for it.

13 hours ago, tebee said:

 

 

Well if they didn't have enough after they got control, why didn't they extend transition  and give themselves time to organize the Brexit they wanted ? 

 

Instead they commit hari-kari and fall onto the ceremonial sword of a brexit that will wreck the county, literally breaking it up.

Quite, probably been the plan all along, blaming the EU for everything has been par for the course over the last 5 years. At the end of the day they haven't really addressed the whole issue seriously.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deals-continuity-exports-mexico-turkey-canada-b1444977.html