Nearly 80% of Americans say Biden won White House, ignoring Trump's refusal to concede: Reuters/Ipsos poll

[melvinmelvin]

durng/just after the prev. election (clinton - trump) there was a lot of talk about

to what extent are the electors bound bt the cvote in their lap

 

if I remember  correctly it turned out that in some states the electors were legally boun by the result in their lap,

in other states they were not, ie they electors were freeer to pick the candidate they thought would be best for the USofA

 

is that situation the same same or has there been some streamlinig of these parts of the relevant legislation in various member states?

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

on CNN and in newspapers is has been said severel times

that 48 out of  50 states enjoy winner take all or first past the pole (roughly same same)

 

which two states do not apply winner take all,

and how do these two states do it?

[melvinmelvin]

why is Alaska counted so way out of tune with the other states?

 

[Salerno]

27 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

which two states do not apply winner take all,

and how do these two states do it?

 

Nebraska and Maine I believe. No idea how they split it but I would hope based on the split of the votes.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Salerno

[melvinmelvin]

came across and studied some maps (of USA)

 

2016 US county by county basis all Trump counties red the rest white

2016, same for Clinton, blue and  white

2020, as above

2020, as above

 

those 4 maps made quite an impression

it might be time for a political discussion of some sort of balance mechansim should be introduced ,

ie giving impact to both peoples vote and electoal vote

 

[Salerno]

30 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

it might be time for a political discussion of some sort of balance mechansim should be introduced ,

ie giving impact to both peoples vote and electoal vote

 

It's one of the strangest issues of the US process to me.

 

Why should the Republicans get all 29 electoral votes available from Florida given the chunk of Democrat counties? In the same vein, why should the Democrats get all 55 electoral votes available from California given the chunk of Republican counties?

  

 

Doesn't seem a fair process reflecting the wishes of the people to me.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Salerno

[Scott]

57 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

on CNN and in newspapers is has been said severel times

that 48 out of  50 states enjoy winner take all or first past the pole (roughly same same)

 

which two states do not apply winner take all,

and how do these two states do it?

The two states are Nebraska and Maine.   Here's a link to how they do it:

 

https://www.270towin.com/content/split-electoral-votes-maine-and-nebraska/

[placeholder]

50 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

It's one of the strangest issues of the US process to me.

 

Why should the Republicans get all 29 electoral votes available from Florida given the chunk of Democrat counties? In the same vein, why should the Democrats get all 55 electoral votes available from California given the chunk of Republican counties?

  

 

Doesn't seem a fair process reflecting the wishes of the people to me.

If you do it by county then you'll just be replicating the unfairness of the electoral college votes. In the USA the more  sparsely populated a county is, the more likely it is to lean Republican. The more heavily populated a county is, the more likely it is to lean Democratic.

[howbri]

20 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Assume this is meant to be humorous?

 

I mean, trump did already declare that he won the 2020 election.

 

 

I WON THIS ELECTION, BY A LOT!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2020

 

 

 

 

 

 

BECAUSE HE DID WIN!!!

[placeholder]

Just now, howbri said:

BECAUSE HE DID WIN!!!

To make that an irrefutable assertion I suggest you put it in bold type and make it a lot larger.

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

To make that an irrefutable assertion I suggest you put it in bold type and make it a lot larger.

I suggest you put in a sarcasm alert, the person you are responding to might take it seriously.

[Lacessit]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

IMO we will see how many corrupt and criminal Republicans there are after Biden takes office, and the justice system can operate without Barr smothering it.

Communist? In Australia, the Democrats would be classed as a right-wing party.

I have news for you. Socialism works quite well in many democracies where people are not brainwashed from birth to regard it as akin to leprosy.

Check out how a socialist government in Victoria, Australia has eliminated coronavirus. Thirteen straight days without a death or new case, three active cases in the whole state.

Compare that with the 123,000 odd new cases, 1250 deaths, and 3.8 million active cases America had YESTERDAY.

Get back to me when you have stopped drinking the Trump Koolaid.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Scott

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

[soalbundy]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

Gratuitous and cliched insults really don't help the cause.

but even his mother didn't like him, she referred to him once as a monster.

[Salerno]

41 minutes ago, placeholder said:

If you do it by county then you'll just be replicating the unfairness of the electoral college votes.

 

Wasn't even touching on that strange set up - just the fact that it's winner take all in 48 States. Why not a percentage based on the wishes of the people as per the ballot box.

[jcsmith]

23 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Wasn't even touching on that strange set up - just the fact that it's winner take all in 48 States. Why not a percentage based on the wishes of the people as per the ballot box.

It would make sense for it to be. It's a dated system that is unnecessary today. 

This election was basically decided by 150k votes in 5 states. Had Trump gotten a bit more in each of those states it turns from a sizable electoral college defeat into a large victory. But it would have also been the third time in the past six elections that a democrat had won the popular vote but lost the election. And therein lies the reason that it won't change. Same with the senate seats. You have states with under 600k population have the same number of senate seats as California despite having 65x less people. But since you will need republican votes to change it, and it is against their best interests, it's unlikely to ever change.

Edited November 12, 2020 by jcsmith

[GeorgeEboy]

The last election was decided by approximately 70,000 votes. And they were real votes as real as the 150,000 now giving the advantage to the other side. With again 4 million more votes to the democratic candidate by the popular vote.

[Lacessit]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

Obviously the fact Biden has got 5 million more votes than Trump, 50.8% to 47.5%, means nothing to you. In most sane democracies, it would be no contest.

Please explain to me how it is possible for organised crime to steal 5 million votes, I love listening to conspiracy theorist flights of fancy. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Scott

[Scott]

Troll posts reported and removed along with replies.

 

[polpott]

1 hour ago, jcsmith said:

But since you will need republican votes to change it, and it is against their best interests, it's unlikely to ever change.

Not if the Democrats win the 2 senatorial run offs in Georgia. Senate tied, Harris takes the seat.

 

Democrats won the state, can they win the senate?

[stevenl]

57 minutes ago, polpott said:

Not if the Democrats win the 2 senatorial run offs in Georgia. Senate tied, Harris takes the seat.

 

Democrats won the state, can they win the senate?

Possible, but seems unlikely.

[MaxYakov]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

*Deleted post edited out*

 

Obviously the fact Biden has got 5 million more votes than Trump, 50.8% to 47.5%, means nothing to you. In most sane democracies, it would be no contest.

Please explain to me how it is possible for organised crime to steal 5 million votes, I love listening to conspiracy theorist flights of fancy. 

Question:

 

Why do you think that organized crime stole 5 million votes?

 

End of Question

 

Opinion:

 

You do understand the US electoral college system and that under that system can and has had several instances where a candidate won the popular vote and lost the US Electoral College [wiki link] vote count? At one time the Electoral College worked was taught in high school Civics classes and why it exists. Maybe you should get an education about the US voting system.

 

The absolute differences of the popular vote is not even important considering how different the voting demographic  is among the 50 states. However, that being said, I have no doubt that 'organized crime' could actually steal 5 million over the 50 states votes given the correct incentive and cooperative, corrupt voting officials and/or an insecure electoral system (such as mail-in voting). I don't believe anyone is claiming that (the theft of 5 million votes) has happened in this election because in the states where the vote count is being contested, do not need that many 'stolen' votes to change the outcome of the election. From what I understand, it's not 'voter fraud' per se that will be contested in those states. It is the lack of constitutional 'equal protection under the law' that will be the primary argument before the Supreme Court of the United states, if they agree to recognize and deal with the law suit submitted by the Republicans/Trump Campaign.

 

There are other sources of voting/ballot anomalies such as erroneous counting software which can flip votes from one candidate to another (or other mayhem) which has been reported in at least one contested state in this election and tht particular software is used in several states.

 

End of Opinion

 

Note: I am not a Trump supporter per se. I am a supporter of the US Constitution and the Rule of Law. Without those, IMO, what exists is a tribal anarchy such as described in 'Lord of the Flies'.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by MaxYakov

[DavisH]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

*Deleted post edited out*

 

IMO we will see how many corrupt and criminal Republicans there are after Biden takes office, and the justice system can operate without Barr smothering it.

Communist? In Australia, the Democrats would be classed as a right-wing party.

I have news for you. Socialism works quite well in many democracies where people are not brainwashed from birth to regard it as akin to leprosy.

Check out how a socialist government in Victoria, Australia has eliminated coronavirus. Thirteen straight days without a death or new case, three active cases in the whole state.

Compare that with the 123,000 odd new cases, 1250 deaths, and 3.8 million active cases America had YESTERDAY.

Get back to me when you have stopped drinking the Trump Koolaid.

There were almost no controls on Spanish language media in Florida. They were told to fear Biden and his socialist agenda. "Your country will end up like Venuzeula", they were told. The Democrats should have put more effort in that state to address those issues. That was a lost opportunity to win Florida. It seems many Americans don't know what socialism is and conflate ith with communism. Who needs free healthcare and decent public education! Apparenty, Americans are in desperate need of both. 

[mtls2005]

Newsmax, the conservative "news" organization run by trump friend chris ruddy has published an op-ed piece calling for trump to retire now and let pence handle the remaining term.

 

ouch.

 

Let Mike Pence Handle the Transition

 

To avoid all this unpleasantness, President Trump should retire immediately and let Mike Pence concede the election, occupy the White House, and handle the transition.

 

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/996319/456

 

 

 

 

 

[MaxYakov]

1 minute ago, mtls2005 said:

Newsmax, the conservative "news" organization run by trump friend chris ruddy has published an op-ed piece calling for trump to retire now and let pence handle the remaining term.

 

ouch.

 

Let Mike Pence Handle the Transition

 

To avoid all this unpleasantness, President Trump should retire immediately and let Mike Pence concede the election, occupy the White House, and handle the transition.

 

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/996319/456

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, right, Dude. Like that's going to happen.  

[wwest5829]

On 11/11/2020 at 10:00 AM, Neeranam said:

Terrible Biden declaring himself president before the count has finished. This is certainly dividing the country and showing his arrogance. 

See, the way it works is that Biden did not declare himself the winner. The American voters declared him the winner by the votes reported by the states and broadcast by the media. Facts matter.

[Berkshire]

13 hours ago, Masterton said:

 

Continually having to respond to your bias nonsense is becoming tiresome. Pennsylvania has a long history of "voting issues" which goes back decades. The problem there is systemic. The fact that you automatically believe the word of the people who are being accused of fraud/interference/irregularities/illegality without taking into consideration any of the evidence/proof already (allegedly) collected by the Trump lawyers just highlights your confirmation bias. Please don't bother replying to this message because I will be ignoring you from here on.

"evidence/proof already (allegedly) collected by the Trump lawyers" 

That's just funny.  These lawyers are getting creamed in the courts because they do not in fact have any real evidence.  It's one thing to make allegations of voter fraud.  It's another thing to try and prove it in court.  That's why every single case so far has been thrown out.  

 

[By now, it’s well-established that most of the arguments put forward by President Trump’s reelection campaign in its challenge of the results of the 2020 election are baseless and highly speculative. Even Trump allies, as The Washington Post reported late Tuesday, acknowledge the apparent futility of the effort.]

[The common thread running through all of these (court cases) is that Trump’s lawyers are regularly offering a significantly more watered-down version of Trump’s claims about rampant voter fraud — because they, unlike Trump, have to substantiate their claims. And as these exchanges show, it’s a rather thankless task that can quickly land them on a judge’s bad side.]

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-lawyers-suffer-embarrassing-rebukes-from-judges-over-voter-fraud-claims/ar-BB1aUUWm

 

[wwest5829]

23 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I wasn't joking.

They are both wrong.

Strange, only Trump gets blamed for doing it, isn't it? Biased media perhaps?

As from the beginning of his administration, Trump catches the heat because of his own words, his own policies, his own actions. There is a difference. Trump declared he won, which was yet another lie he told. Biden became President Elect after the states reported their vote counts showing Biden's lead, which was based on fact.

[n00dle]

Is DC one of those states/regions where you can shoot people for trespassing?

 

If yes it would be an elegant solution.

Edited November 12, 2020 by n00dle

[n00dle]

2 minutes ago, n00dle said:

 

Deleted weird multiple post

Edited November 12, 2020 by n00dle