Son failing Maths.

[nikmar]

Hi, I would be extremely grateful for a little advice.

 

Long story short, my son (M1 in a government school) has learning dificulties to the extent that he cannot get to grips with Maths or Science. He had tests last week and failed both. Today he and (actually , quite a few of his peers) have to re-test. 

 

I can't get any logical answers form anyone about what happens if he fails again. Do schools kick low performing students out? Does he just get a low grade? I would like to be clear so as to prepare. His Mum doesnt seem to care one way or another and is reluctant to call the school. I could do myself but my Thai is not so fluent.

 

If anyone could give any knowledge on the subject then that would be great. 

 

For the record, he is doing just fine in English, he has skills outside of academia ( he can cook great thai food and wants to be a chef), and we both know that he isnt going to go to University so i dont care too much with low grades. i just dont want him kicked out of school at M1

 

Thanks

[ThaIrish Sean]

Have a look at the maths factor by carol vorderman. My daughter uses this and her maths is improved exponentially. It's fun and carol explains how to solve problems very well. I believe you can trial it for free and then it's £12.50 a quarter.

https://www.themathsfactor.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAtK79BRAIEiwA4OskBiICeUyTUdxny00KhL6XTBUZUjcSrV-ozmAJds2GCJVqWyfzCQqAlxoCoQ0QAvD_BwE

[tpkhk]

Total speculation on my part to say you/your son has nothing to worry about (no chance of failing out). 

 

A few years ago (2010), they conducted nationwide tests on Teacher competency (ie. testing them in their respective subjects).  The failure rate for math was in the double digits.  That sounds ok ie. if it is say 10-20%, but in fact it was a whopping 84%.  Not sure if I can link to BKK Post here, but "Thailand teachers failing their own subject" should bring it up as the first result in Google.

 

Found this link while I was drafting this. - https://www.ajarn.com/blogs/mark-brown/problems-with-the-thai-public-education-system - (you may want to email the person who wrote that article.  

 

Also, a link to an academic paper - seems like Thailand has a "No fail policy" for sometime now.  At most sounds like your son may need to take a few days of remedial classes, if that.  https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/81715653.pdf

Edited November 13, 2020 by tpkhk
Added link

[scorecard]

6 minutes ago, tpkhk said:

Total speculation on my part - but a few years ago (2010), they conducted nationwide tests on Teacher competency (ie. testing them in their respective subjects).  The failure rate for math was in the double digits.  That sounds ok ie. if it is say 10-20%, but in fact it was a whopping 84%.  Not sure if I can link to BKK Post here, but "Thailand teachers failing their own subject" should bring it up as the first result in Google.

 

Found this link while I was drafting this. - https://www.ajarn.com/blogs/mark-brown/problems-with-the-thai-public-education-system - (you may want to email the person who wrote that article.  I'd say your son will be fine (ie. no chance of failing out).  

 

Also, a link to an academic paper - seems like Thailand has a "No fail policy" for sometime now.  At most sounds like your son may need to take a few days of remedial classes, if that.  https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/81715653.pdf

I like this point, Thai neighbors son was totally lost and confused in maths and at about P4 it got to the stage he completed maybe 20% of the questions at each exam.

 

Boys Thai father is a Dr. of medicine who spent all his HS and degree years abroad.

 

Father went to the school and quickly discovered son's maths teacher was actually the school PE teacher and had no qualifications in anything.

 

Head of school kept insisting 'there's no problem', he'll be OK later.

 

Father found an on-line specific test to establish whether basic foundations are not understood by his son.

 

Father found a school in Singapore which was specifically established for kids doing poorly in maths and where basics/foundations are missing. All other subjects are also taught. Both primary and secondary levels.

 

The boy spoke very good English, his mother went with him to Singapore for 2 years and with excellent remedial reults. Back to LOS and into a quality bi-lingual school. Boy has since finished HS and now studying for his Bcheloe Degree in Engineering.

 

The problem was missing foundations.

 

[talahtnut]

Einstein's teacher told him that you'll never be any good Albert.   lol.

[THAIPHUKET]

Have a look at Elephantlearning.com I signed up a Thai adult farmer to catch up.

So far I'm impressed about the methodology.  

[HarrySeaman]

This is a similar story to that of a Japanese father, Toru Kumon, a Japanese educator, in 1958.  He started teaching his son at home at night using a series of work sheets he developed.  Don't be put off by the fact that is it rote memorization based because, simply put, it works extremely well for subjects like simple math, history, or language learning.  Here is a link to the Wikipedia page:   Wikipedia - Kumon.

 

This method is now used for many subjects and the worksheets can be purchased in many languages from a company named Kumon.  Here is a link to the math program.

Kumon Math Program

[thailand49]

Get him tutor outside for these subject, don't pay the school teachers on Sat to do it they are usually just after the money. Tempt him with some incentive if he does better get him off the phone internet playing games. The government schools will just move him along especially if he isn't causing any problems in the classroom but when he is Fifteen even a Government school isn't going to take him with his grades you will most likely have to buy his way if they don't most likely suggest a school like Techno this was exactly the case with my son he learns a trade at the same time also gets class work. It wasn't until he went to a Techno school (paid not government)  a change that he went from 1.9 to 3.6

[Surelynot]

The OP is asking what are the consequences of failure within the school system...not how to make his son a genius at maths!

[nikmar]

21 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

The OP is asking what are the consequences of failure within the school system...not how to make his son a genius at maths!

thanks, but im also accepting any advice. Im quite concerned about him.

[boriga]

1 hour ago, HarrySeaman said:

This is a similar story to that of a Japanese father, Toru Kumon, a Japanese educator, in 1958.  He started teaching his son at home at night using a series of work sheets he developed.  Don't be put off by the fact that is it rote memorization based because, simply put, it works extremely well for subjects like simple math, history, or language learning.  Here is a link to the Wikipedia page:   Wikipedia - Kumon.

 

This method is now used for many subjects and the worksheets can be purchased in many languages from a company named Kumon.  Here is a link to the math program.

Kumon Math Program

I would recommend Kumon also. Both my kids do some every day. No screens until completed. Typically 10-15 mins needed a day.

 

Needs to be managed as they are inclined, in my experience, to give too much homework, so as to provide value for money to parents. A couple of pages each day working the way up through the basics can do wonders. Not just in terms of passing exams, but in terms of confidence and not being intimidated by maths. 

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

The OP is asking what are the consequences of failure within the school system...not how to make his son a genius at maths!

Exactly. Not one of the first several responses actually addressed the OP's question.

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, nikmar said:

thanks, but im also accepting any advice. Im quite concerned about him.

 

Glad you're happy with the answers that didn't address your question. So here's another one.

 

He's good at English, good at the subject he wants to take up as a career (chef), so why the concern? I got 4% in a maths test at school, probably got that for spelling my name right at the top of the paper, so I didn't try to become a physicist. I did excel in English and became a journalist. Put all your efforts into helping him reach a top kitchen. Maths not required (except maybe for measuring the ingredients ???? )

[polpott]

17 hours ago, nikmar said:

thanks, but im also accepting any advice. Im quite concerned about him.

At age 7 my son didn't fail his tests but to me his maths was virtually non existent. Talked to the teacher who said his maths was fine. She made him follow numbers on a board from 1 to 10. Fine. I then wrote the number 5 down on a piece of paper and asked him to name it. Not a clue. Teaching by rote in the extreme. He now has maths lessons with a private tutor twice per week and is improving well.

[EVENKEEL]

Math is a necessary skill in life. Surely this isn't the first sign of being deficient in math. Help him with multiplication and division. I doubt in a gov school they go into algebra or geometry.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, thailand49 said:

Get him tutor outside for these subject, don't pay the school teachers on Sat to do it they are usually just after the money. Tempt him with some incentive if he does better get him off the phone internet playing games. The government schools will just move him along especially if he isn't causing any problems in the classroom but when he is Fifteen even a Government school isn't going to take him with his grades you will most likely have to buy his way if they don't most likely suggest a school like Techno this was exactly the case with my son he learns a trade at the same time also gets class work. It wasn't until he went to a Techno school (paid not government)  a change that he went from 1.9 to 3.6

Well said and I emphasize "...don't pay the school teachers on Sat to do it they are usually just after the money'.  And I add, mostly not qualified to teach the actual subject let alone teach the subject with a proven remedial/alternative approach.  

[PeachCH]

Go Facebook, look for the different math lessons, download math games and math apps from Google play. Drill him one hour daily with math rules. Soon he will improve. (my son from one of the worst to one of the best in 3 months time) 

[scorecard]

30 minutes ago, polpott said:

At age 7 my son didn't fail his tests but to me his maths was virtually non existent. Talked to the teacher who said his maths was fine. She made him follow numbers on a board from 1 to 10. Fine. I then wrote the number 5 down on a piece of paper and asked him to name it. Not a clue. Teaching by wrote in the extreme. He now has maths lessons with a private tutor twice per week and is improving well.

Another example, at an expensive international school.

 

Several parents sitting on the bench seat outside a school room waiting to pick up their kids (P4).

 

Maths teacher, young American girl, comes out of the room and quickly approaches the waiting fathers and says:

 

'Tomorrow I have to start teaching long division but I don't know how to do it except for using a calculator, I want one of you guys to teach me how to do it'.

 

 

[kensisaket]

I like pretty much everyone else on here am not an expert; however, I do know that getting kicked out/told to go to a different school pretty much only comes into play at the college level.  I believe some of the technical colleges have the same policy.  

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Another example, at an expensive international school.

 

Several parents sitting on the bench seat outside a school room waiting to pick up their kids (P4).

 

Maths teacher, young American girl, comes out of the room and quickly approaches the waiting fathers and says:

 

'Tomorrow I have to start teaching long division but I don't know how to do it except for using a calculator, I want one of you guys to teach me how to do it'.

 

 

I have to call BS on this one. They don't wait for P4 to do long div.

Edited November 13, 2020 by EVENKEEL

[XGM]

At the American / British systems long division is taught on Grade 4 / Year 5.

[dlclark97]

6 hours ago, tpkhk said:

Total speculation on my part to say you/your son has nothing to worry about (no chance of failing out). 

 

A few years ago (2010), they conducted nationwide tests on Teacher competency (ie. testing them in their respective subjects).  The failure rate for math was in the double digits.  That sounds ok ie. if it is say 10-20%, but in fact it was a whopping 84%.  Not sure if I can link to BKK Post here, but "Thailand teachers failing their own subject" should bring it up as the first result in Google.

 

Found this link while I was drafting this. - https://www.ajarn.com/blogs/mark-brown/problems-with-the-thai-public-education-system - (you may want to email the person who wrote that article.  

 

Also, a link to an academic paper - seems like Thailand has a "No fail policy" for sometime now.  At most sounds like your son may need to take a few days of remedial classes, if that.  https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/81715653.pdf

Speaking of qualified teaching. A few years ago my daughter was given homework of 10 English sentences that were intentionally worded out of the correct sequence.  Unfortunately I did not see her work until after it had been turned in, corrected and graded by her teacher.  Of the ten sentences she had arranged three in the proper sequence.  However, all ten received the same mark indicating they were OK and had been reordered correctly.

[VocalNeal]

I have a friend whose son was discovered to have a short term memory problem. How one detects it as a parent I do not know.

The son in question got remedial teaching and is now much better.

[CraigInBangkok]

2 hours ago, PeachCH said:

Go Facebook, look for the different math lessons, download math games and math apps from Google play. Drill him one hour daily with math rules. Soon he will improve. (my son from one of the worst to one of the best in 3 months time) 

I like this answer. Make it fun for him to learn! Spent all of my school years staring out of the window because it was just so boring. Failed everything at school, but ended up putting myself through university when I was 28, once I found something other than marijuana that interested me. 

[Autonuaq]

the biggest problem you are facing is the teachers not know the way to teach a child and reach the child. due to this many children not got the love for numbers and math because they are missing the basics.

 

number start to live when you do all by head and math starts to live when you understand the numbers and how they work. so the start it to learn the love for the number by understanding the adding subtracting multiply and dividing, as well the counting with money. first calculate how much to give back and when give back the money to count up to the amount given. after that make the calculate that they only return bills to so they have to ask for extra small coins.

 

with numberplates a game to get as close to a number as fast as possible so the numbers start tol live.

 

when this is understood and the number start to live as well the concept of zero then math becomes easier. still need to train a lot. with what I write you one can change a child its awareness within a year and play with number as well with math.

 

all takes time and one has to accept some kids just never get the numbers and math right. Accpet this and being a doctor does not tell a thing about the person or how good one is.

 

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, nikmar said:

thanks, but im also accepting any advice. Im quite concerned about him.

" he has skills outside of academia ( he can cook great thai food and wants to be a chef),"

 

Back in the 60's I was an RAF instrument fitter which is a very math oriented trade. I used to run trade training classes for those that needed maths guidance while preparing for promotion exams and found that many respond a lot better to practical maths than the traditional chalk and talk; every driver uses calculus without even realising it.

There is a certain amount of maths used in cooking, temperatures, conversion ratios, weights etc. If practical examples are used from a topic of interest it can open the door to a better understanding.

Good luck.

 

[jomtienisgood]

On 11/13/2020 at 8:49 AM, THAIPHUKET said:

Have a look at Elephantlearning.com I signed up a Thai adult farmer to catch up.

So far I'm impressed about the methodology.  

Interesting... Anything growing??

[nikmar]

I very much appreciate the advice and answers to my topic. Thanks. 

[baansgr]

Thai constitution guarantees minimum 9 years of free education...is it a Government school.

[TLeaf]

You have to show an interest in him and not just pass send him to a program, app or camp.

 

Actually sit down and look at the material (you will find you can't do it most of it yourself even as an adult).

 

All he has to do is pass the test.  Look at the previous test papers.

Edited November 16, 2020 by TLeaf