As legal blitz flounders, Trump protesters back false election claims

[CorpusChristie]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I won’t miss Trump.

 

The rest relates to your own problems with others disagreeing with you.

 

   I support Trump , seems like he lost the election .

I accept Bidens next four years , move on 

[impulse]

I'm not a Trump fan.  Never have been.  I won't miss him if he lost.

 

But they need to hand count the ballots from Georgia.  If there are no significant discrepancies, he needs to concede and the nation needs to move on.  If they don't audit the results with at least one 100% hand recount, there will always be a cloud over the results.

 

[Credo]

This nonsense about fraud in the elections is nothing more than a huge canard.  Elections are handled by each state and they are overseen by a host of poll watchers and observers.   For there to be fraud in the presidential election would require a concerted effort by 50 states.   

 

The big issue that keeps elections fair is the extreme oversight and that is primarily done on behalf of those running for local and state offices.   It's local officials who keep an eye out for cheating and fraud since a few ballots can make a big difference.

 

States have been running elections since the US has existed.  They how to do it.  Each state has its own policies and procedures, some of which may be subject to a court review, such as how late ballots can be received, procedures around provisional ballots, etc.   

 

A very long time ago, I was a poll watcher and the oversight was enormous.  No one got to vote who wasn't registered (although I understand a lot of places will allow you to vote, but it is a provisional ballot and you have a specified amount of time to produce documentation that you are legally eligible to vote).   Once you voted, your name went off the list, so if you tried again, it wouldn't work.  Now much of this is done by computer.  

 

Any irregularities are going to be highly localized and caught quickly.

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

I'm not a Trump fan.  Never have been.  I won't miss him if he lost.

 

But they need to hand count the ballots from Georgia.  If there are no significant discrepancies, he needs to concede and the nation needs to move on.  If they don't audit the results with at least one 100% hand recount, there will always be a cloud over the results.

 

That's exactly what's happening right now in Georgia. But in the unlikely event that the recount changes the result in Georgia which is quite close that would only speak to the election in Georgia and would not change the national result. 

 

https://www.ajc.com/politics/election/georgia-recount-metro-atlanta-counties-offer-live-feeds-for-voters-to-watch/6MCEZ5N4JJGKTEC4IU7ELDOIRQ/

 

 

Joe Biden is the president elect. There is no doubt.

 

In any case no amount of recounting or lost court cases will change the minds of 45 fans.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Jingthing

[Nigel Garvie]

4 hours ago, IgboChief said:

 

Frank,

as I wrote before: it is actually believable, but nobody dares to draw the conclusion from it. If 70 Mill. people prefer to vote for a toxic clown in order to tear down a democracy instead of contributing to the development of the nation and the people, then this nation is doomed. Hating to live in the basement, they'd rather burn down the whole house.

 

How to run and to govern a democracy - an organization which depends on informed decision - with people like that?

Russia and China must laugh their asses off these days.

The signs are that Russia and China are not looking too happy right now, for I guess rather different reasons.

 

Trump has become synonymous with people on the far right,  and with the hard core of the GOP, so obsessed with feathering their own nest, but I think we make a mistake. When we see now a sad forlorn figure, wandering in a lost manner round the White House, we are looking at the collapse of the fantasy of one man. Trump has never cared about politics, and as was correctly said, should never have been allowed anywhere near the WH, for his own good, and everyone else's. It is clear that he has deep routed personal problems. The tragedy is that instead of playing out his problems in a secure environment, he has played them out as POTUS on the American people, leaving them with a society dramatically more divided than before. This damage is vast, and could last for decades.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

I'm not a Trump fan.  Never have been.  I won't miss him if he lost.

 

But they need to hand count the ballots from Georgia.  If there are no significant discrepancies, he needs to concede and the nation needs to move on.  If they don't audit the results with at least one 100% hand recount, there will always be a cloud over the results.

 

Even in the extremely unlikely event that the hand count in Georgia swings the state to Trump, Biden will still have more than enough electoral college votes to become President.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

5 hours ago, impulse said:

I'm not a Trump fan.  Never have been.  I won't miss him if he lost.

 

But they need to hand count the ballots from Georgia.  If there are no significant discrepancies, he needs to concede and the nation needs to move on.  If they don't audit the results with at least one 100% hand recount, there will always be a cloud over the results.

 

Even in the extremely unlikely event that the hand count in Georgia swings the state to Trump, Biden will still have more than enough electoral college votes to become President.

 

True.  But it would indicate there's something amiss with the count.  And if it happened in Georgia...

 

Just to be clear, I'm hoping it comes in legit and sticks a fork in any thought there was malfeasance.  But we need to know.

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by impulse

[vandeventer]

18 hours ago, placeholder said:

Claiming that the situation has to be resolved is in effect supporting the contention of Trump and others that the election was tainted by fraud. There is no good evidence of this. What's more, once the vote is resolved in favor of Biden, Trump supporters won't accept the results if Trump doesn't. There will always be some conspiracy theory or others that they will subscribe to.

If the election is thrown back to the House Trump will win!

[Berkshire]

11 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

If the election is thrown back to the House Trump will win!

Geez, you're still beating that drum?  How about this one..."If we don't count California and New York, Trump wins!"

 

My advice to you is to accept reality.  It'll be better for your health.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Berkshire

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

If the election is thrown back to the House Trump will win!

And why would it be?

[Scott]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And why would it be?

he Constitution mandates that House Members vote as a state delegation and that the winner must obtain a simple majority of the states.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Scott said:

he Constitution mandates that House Members vote as a state delegation and that the winner must obtain a simple majority of the states.

But why would that happen unless there was a tie vote?

[Scott]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

But why would that happen unless there was a tie vote?

I'll leave that up to other members to try and answer.  I am not up on the machinations going on that might result in the electoral college being tied. 

 

I suspect there is some reason that Trump and the GOP are not conceding the election and it doesn't appear to be based on the legal decisions thus far.

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Scott said:

I'll leave that up to other members to try and answer.  I am not up on the machinations going on that might result in the electoral college being tied. 

 

I suspect there is some reason that Trump and the GOP are not conceding the election and it doesn't appear to be based on the legal decisions thus far.

 

I guess I shouldn't have framed that as a question. It is the case that it only comes into play when there's a tie.

Presidential election

If no candidate for president receives an absolute majority of the electoral votes, pursuant to the 12th Amendment, the House of Representatives is required to go into session immediately to choose a president from among the three candidates who received the most electoral votes. Each state's delegation votes en bloc, with each having a single vote. A candidate must receive an absolute majority of state delegation votes (currently 26 votes) to become the president-elect. The House continues balloting until it elects a president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election#:~:text=If no candidate for president,received the most electoral votes.

 

I think that they are pinning their hopes on Republican state legislatures appointing Republican electors in those states where the Republicans are the majority in the legislature but the states voters chose Biden.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   I support Trump , seems like he lost the election .

I accept Bidens next four years , move on 

It seems to have evaded you that it is Trump who is refusing to accept defeat and ‘move on’.

 

But moving on is what will happen, and not because you or anyone else gives the instruction to do so.

[polpott]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

True.  But it would indicate there's something amiss with the count.  And if it happened in Georgia...

 

Just to be clear, I'm hoping it comes in legit and sticks a fork in any thought there was malfeasance.  But we need to know.

 

The count is underway. Early reports suggest that the outcome will be an even greater win for Biden. Any attempts at electoral fraud will have come from the Trump camp.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Scott said:

I'll leave that up to other members to try and answer.  I am not up on the machinations going on that might result in the electoral college being tied. 

 

I suspect there is some reason that Trump and the GOP are not conceding the election and it doesn't appear to be based on the legal decisions thus far.

 

The inability of the malignant narcissist Trump to accept defeat and his hope that he can somehow drag this before the SCOTUS which he has preloaded in his favor.

 

What he lacks is any evidence or any credible legal case.

 

The courts are rejecting his pleas on the basis of lacking merit and exposing his witnesses as liars.

 

[Surelynot]

Can anyone...in less than 100 words...explain to me how a normal, reasonably intelligent human could vote for Trump?

 

I have wracked my brain, but cannot see what they see.

[polpott]

Just now, Surelynot said:

Can anyone...in less than 100 words...explain to me how a normal, reasonably intelligent human could vote for Trump?

 

I have wracked my brain, but cannot see what they see.

I think the clue is in "reasonably intelligent".

[impulse]

Just now, Surelynot said:

Can anyone...in less than 100 words...explain to me how a normal, reasonably intelligent human could vote for Trump?

 

I have wracked my brain, but cannot see what they see.

 

Because the other guy (and his career politician cronies) are worse.  The founding fathers didn't intend for politicians to latch onto the gub'ment breast and hold on until they retired.  They wanted citizens to leave their offices, put down their plows, and go serve for a few years.  Then go back and have to live in the country they were creating.

 

[placeholder]

38 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Because the other guy (and his career politician cronies) are worse.  The founding fathers didn't intend for politicians to latch onto the gub'ment breast and hold on until they retired.  They wanted citizens to leave their offices, put down their plows, and go serve for a few years.  Then go back and have to live in the country they were creating.

 

I remember well what Thomas Jefferson said in that regard: " Better that we who have toiled in the government's service too long return to our plows though it should mean ignorant, dishonest and vindictive citizens should replace us all. For a decent respect for one's fellow citizens matter not one whit when weighed against the destructive force that is prolonged service to ones' country."

 

(These remarks came to me by way of a séance.) 

Edited November 16, 2020 by placeholder

[impulse]

45 minutes ago, polpott said:

The count is underway. Early reports suggest that the outcome will be an even greater win for Biden. Any attempts at electoral fraud will have come from the Trump camp.

 

Could just be which stack of votes they counted first.  That's what happened the first time around- but in the other direction...

 

In any case, I'll wait for the fat lady to sing.

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Could just be which stack of votes they counted first.  That's what happened the first time around- but in the other direction...

 

In any case, I'll wait for the fat lady to sing.

 

Actually, it happened in both directions. For some reason or other, it only concerns Trump supporters if the shift is from blue to red.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

I guess I shouldn't have framed that as a question. It is the case that it only comes into play when there's a tie.

Presidential election

If no candidate for president receives an absolute majority of the electoral votes, pursuant to the 12th Amendment, the House of Representatives is required to go into session immediately to choose a president from among the three candidates who received the most electoral votes. Each state's delegation votes en bloc, with each having a single vote. A candidate must receive an absolute majority of state delegation votes (currently 26 votes) to become the president-elect. The House continues balloting until it elects a president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election#:~:text=If no candidate for president,received the most electoral votes.

 

I think that they are pinning their hopes on Republican state legislatures appointing Republican electors in those states where the Republicans are the majority in the legislature but the states voters chose Biden.

The vote doesn't have to be a tie.  If no candidate gets 270 electoral votes then the 12th Amendment kicks in. 

 

At this point that can only happen if enough state governments declare that the election results in their states are sufficiently in doubt to cause them to either send in uncommitted electors or commit their electors to Trump in spite of the vote results.  This would cause monumental legal problems and probably riots.

Edited November 16, 2020 by heybruce

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

I think that they are pinning their hopes on Republican state legislatures appointing Republican electors in those states where the Republicans are the majority in the legislature but the states voters chose Biden.

That's not going to happen.

 

[Republican leaders in four critical states won by President-elect Joe Biden say they won’t participate in a legally dubious scheme to flip their state’s electors to vote for President Donald Trump. Their comments effectively shut down a half-baked plot some Republicans floated as a last chance to keep Trump in the White House.]

 

[State GOP lawmakers in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have all said they would not intervene in the selection of electors, who ultimately cast the votes that secure a candidate's victory. Such a move would violate state law and a vote of the people, several noted.]

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-leaders-in-4-states-quash-dubious-trump-bid-on-electors/ar-BB1b03O2

[Rimmer]

A troll meme has been removed also a reply

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

Can anyone...in less than 100 words...explain to me how a normal, reasonably intelligent human could vote for Trump?

 

I have wracked my brain, but cannot see what they see.

Mental laziness.

 

The world is full of people who don't want to do research and think things through.  The kind of laziness that leads people to get their "news" from the 24 hour infotainment channels and click-bait topics they find on the internet. 

 

These people want a loud leader who will promise easy answers to difficult problems and will offer convenient scapegoats to blame these problems on.  In Trump's case the scapegoats are non-white immigrants and his non-white predecessor. 

 

The fact that Trump failed to deliver on key promises--the wall paid for by Mexico, better and cheaper healthcare than the ACA provides, deficit reduction, draining the swamp, etc.--doesn't register on them.  These people have very short, easy to manipulate memories.  They were convinced early on that the economy was terrible under Obama, when it clearly wasn't.

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

That's not going to happen.

 

[Republican leaders in four critical states won by President-elect Joe Biden say they won’t participate in a legally dubious scheme to flip their state’s electors to vote for President Donald Trump. Their comments effectively shut down a half-baked plot some Republicans floated as a last chance to keep Trump in the White House.]

 

[State GOP lawmakers in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have all said they would not intervene in the selection of electors, who ultimately cast the votes that secure a candidate's victory. Such a move would violate state law and a vote of the people, several noted.]

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-leaders-in-4-states-quash-dubious-trump-bid-on-electors/ar-BB1b03O2

Good to know that there are some GOP leaders who won't gut democracy to appease Trump.

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The vote doesn't have to be a tie.  If no candidate gets 270 electoral votes then the 12th Amendment kicks in. 

 

At this point that can only happen if enough state governments declare that the election results in their states are sufficiently in doubt to cause them to either send in uncommitted electors or commit their electors to Trump in spite of the vote results.  This would cause monumental legal problems and probably riots.

Thanks for the correction. So that's the slender reed that the diehard election denialists are counting on.

Edited November 16, 2020 by placeholder

[Surelynot]

17 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Mental laziness.

 

The world is full of people who don't want to do research and think things through.  The kind of laziness that leads people to get their "news" from the 24 hour infotainment channels and click-bait topics they find on the internet. 

 

These people want a loud leader who will promise easy answers to difficult problems and will offer convenient scapegoats to blame these problems on.  In Trump's case the scapegoats are non-white immigrants and his non-white predecessor. 

 

The fact that Trump failed to deliver on key promises--the wall paid for by Mexico, better and cheaper healthcare than the ACA provides, deficit reduction, draining the swamp, etc.--doesn't register on them.  These people have very short, easy to manipulate memories.  They were convinced early on that the economy was terrible under Obama, when it clearly wasn't.

Brilliant....cheers.