As legal blitz flounders, Trump protesters back false election claims

[Walker88]

The Republican SecState of Georgia, who is in charge of the election system in that State, stated on Monday that he has been pressure by both lindsey graham and former GA Rep doug collins (who lost a Senate race) to 'find ways to toss out votes for Biden in Georgia".

 

That is criminal. Both men shoudl be indicted and tried for election interference, and graham should be tossed from the Senate.

 

The world may be willing to ignore the fact that 47% of Americans supported a pathological liar, racist and dictator-wannabe who knows nothing of the ideals upon which the US and its alliances are based, but foreign leaders are unlikely to be able to ignore the willful attempts to destroy the democratic system in which both complicit and silent republican leaders are now engaged. because of this duplicity and spitting on the ideals the US has long tried to export to the world, the US will not, and cannot be trusted ever again.

 

It is almost impossible for President Biden to repair the damage wrought by 45 and his quislings like graham and mcconnell. One could reasonably argue that repubs have done far more damage to the US than al Qaeda or ISIS ever did or ever could do. Certainly the abject failure that has been 45's response to Covid has killed far more Americans that al Qaeda ever did, including on 9-11. One need look no farther than the tapes Bob Woodward made of conversations with 45, who knew full well the dangers of the virus, but still was out calling it a "Dem Hoax" and refusing to take the steps other countries took who handled the pandemic much better.

[Opl]

27 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Has anyone tell him that he will be 78 and in poor deteriorating mental as well as physical health. 

watching TV, tweeting and retweeting, golfing , will help him do the job

Edited November 17, 2020 by Opl

[RJRS1301]

35 minutes ago, onthedarkside said:

 

This is what you're referring to?

 

https://news.yahoo.com/georgia-secretary-state-says-lindsey-021720395.html

 

 

Surely if this provable (one hopes there are tapres of the interaction) this was be prosecutable ?

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Surely if this provable (one hopes there are tapres of the interaction) this was be prosecutable ?

Naw. You can be sure his intentions are clear, but the words will just about be deniable.

[placeholder]

Lawsuits that tried to disrupt Biden's wins in four states are withdrawn

Voters in four states who had brought longshot lawsuits to disrupt President-elect Joe Biden's win and went nowhere in court dropped their cases Monday morning.

The cases were short-lived in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania federal courts, and fed into a pro-Donald Trump legal strategy to block Biden's presidential win before the Electoral College formalizes it...

The four lawsuits had all been backed by the law firm of a nationally known conservative attorney, James Bopp Jr. In Michigan and Pennsylvania, the cases had also gone hand in hand with ones brought by the Trump campaign.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/16/politics/lawsuits-michigan-pennsylvania-wisconsin-georgia/index.html

Edited November 17, 2020 by placeholder

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Surely if this provable (one hopes there are tapres of the interaction) this was be prosecutable ?

It certainly falls into the definition of 'election interference', which is a felony.

 

graham might try to defend himself, but he's a Senator from South Carolina, and he really has no business contacting the head of elections in another State and trying to tell that guy how to run things. That would be taken as an assumption of guilt, no matter how graham tries to spin it in court.  And yes, this will likely end up in court, as certainly the new Administration is going to take election interference seriously. It seems the Republican SecState of Georgia is also taking it quite seriously.

[bendejo]

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Surely if this provable (one hopes there are tapres of the interaction) this was be prosecutable ?

 

Mista Lindsey is taking the "you misunderstood what I said" approach.

 

[heybruce]

49 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

It certainly falls into the definition of 'election interference', which is a felony.

 

graham might try to defend himself, but he's a Senator from South Carolina, and he really has no business contacting the head of elections in another State and trying to tell that guy how to run things. That would be taken as an assumption of guilt, no matter how graham tries to spin it in court.  And yes, this will likely end up in court, as certainly the new Administration is going to take election interference seriously. It seems the Republican SecState of Georgia is also taking it quite seriously.

As much as I would like to see Lindsey charged and prosecuted, I don't think it will happen.  There would be all kinds of cries of "He was just expressing an opinion!", "Freedom of speech!" and "Political harassment!". 

 

Joe Biden would be wise to keep out of it.  He will have more than enough issues without adding this one.

[polpott]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

As much as I would like to see Lindsey charged and prosecuted, I don't think it will happen.  There would be all kinds of cries of "He was just expressing an opinion!", "Freedom of speech!" and "Political harassment!". 

 

Joe Biden would be wise to keep out of it.  He will have more than enough issues without adding this one.

He needs to appoint a top notch, hard as nails AG. Kamala would have fitted the bill perfectly had she not been VP.

[Lacessit]

Einstein once said there was no limit to human stupidity and the Universe, but he wasn't sure about the Universe. I guess 73,288,034 voters are proving him right.

[impulse]

14 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Over to you and other trump supporters to now wait for the outcome rather than repeating trump propaganda without any empirical evidence whatsoever. In the meantime trump continue on his campaign to try and destroy the Biden administration. trump repeatedly demonstrates he is not worthy to represent the Office of the President of the USA In the next mid term elections one hopes his disgraceful GOP enabler majority in the Senate are removed to get US back on tract to the "shining city upon a hill". Not a country governed by a man consumed by destructive, divisive grievances.

 

Where did you get the idea I'm a Trump supporter?  Far from it.  But I am a supporter of a fair and legal election.

 

Which begs the question why so many people are against an audit of the results?

 

The electoral college isn't for another month, and the guy's still president until January either way.  Why the huge flap over a delay?  It's not as if the Biden transition can do anything until his inauguration anyway.

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by impulse

[polpott]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Where did you get the idea I'm a Trump supporter?  Far from it.  But I am a supporter of a fair and legal election.

 

Which begs the question why so many people are against an audit of the results?

 

because this election was as fair and legal as every other US presedential election and there's absolutely no evidence to suggest otherwise.

[impulse]

9 minutes ago, polpott said:

because this election was as fair and legal as every other US presedential election and there's absolutely no evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

And I go back to no evidence that Jimmy Hoffa's dead, either.  Where do you figure he's hiding out?

 

The purpose of the hand recount is to look for evidence.  If there isn't any,  what have we lost by waiting for the audit results?

 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

And I go back to no evidence that Jimmy Hoffa's dead, either.  Where do you figure he's hiding out?

 

The purpose of the hand recount is to look for evidence.  If there isn't any,  what have we lost by waiting for the audit results?

 

There were grounds to suspect criminal activity in the disappearance of Hoffa.

The only grounds for most of these these recounts is that Trump lost and he and his supporters can't accept it. Georgia has a mandatory recount when the vote is this close so nothing to do with dodgy lawsuits.  And of course, no matter what the recounts find, Trump and his supporters still won't be able to accept it. And they'll still be poisoning discourse with their lies.

[impulse]

43 minutes ago, placeholder said:

There were grounds to suspect criminal activity in the disappearance of Hoffa.

The only grounds for most of these these recounts is that Trump lost and he and his supporters can't accept it. Georgia has a mandatory recount when the vote is this close so nothing to do with dodgy lawsuits.  And of course, no matter what the recounts find, Trump and his supporters still won't be able to accept it. And they'll still be poisoning discourse with their lies.

 

It's one thing to believe an audit is unnecessary.  I could see that. 

 

It's another thing to be dead set on making sure an audit doesn't happen.  That's just plain suspicious.

 

Every year, publicly traded companies get audited even if there's no evidence of wrongdoing.  I think our elections deserve at least the same level of diligence.

 

Just for grins, look for the recent Symantec YouTube showing how easy it is to hack an election machine they bought at auction.

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

It's one thing to believe an audit is unnecessary.  I could see that. 

 

It's another thing to be dead set on making sure an audit doesn't happen.  That's just plain suspicious.

 

Every year, publicly traded companies get audited even if there's no evidence of wrongdoing.  I think our elections deserve at least the same level of diligence.

 

Just for grins, look for the recent Symantec YouTube showing how easy it is to hack an election machine they bought at auction.

 

Maybe because to conduct these audits would be to give credence to there's some basis for the charges of fraud that Trump and his minions are flinging about? And it's obvious to anyone who has observed the frothing on the right, that there's virtually no chance that those making the accusations will be satisfied by any audit that doesn't result in the reelection of Trump. They'll just find some perjured evidence  to support their baseless contentions.

The 2016 election was very close too, but in that case one of the candidates was an adult.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Where did you get the idea I'm a Trump supporter?  Far from it.  But I am a supporter of a fair and legal election.

 

Which begs the question why so many people are against an audit of the results?

 

The electoral college isn't for another month, and the guy's still president until January either way.  Why the huge flap over a delay?  It's not as if the Biden transition can do anything until his inauguration anyway.

 

I guess you don't understand what a transition accomplishes. 'For one thing, it allows Biden to be briefed by national security officials. For another it allows potential Biden appointees to be vetted by the security services. 

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

And I go back to no evidence that Jimmy Hoffa's dead, either.  Where do you figure he's hiding out?

 

The purpose of the hand recount is to look for evidence.  If there isn't any,  what have we lost by waiting for the audit results?

 

 

in many states, there is an automatic recount at state expense if the vote is within 0.5%.  some will offer the challenger the option of paying for a recount if within 1%.  few if any will allow a recount if a greater margin of victory, except in cases of fraud, backed up with e-v-i-d-e-n-c-e.  a recount is not a fishing expedition to look for maybe perhaps finding something of interest. 

 

as to no evidence of jimmy the hoffa's death, well, he was born in 1913, so we can be relatively certain he has indeed expired sometime during the intervening 107 years.  anyhoo, he was declared legally dead in 1982, so it's as official as obama's birth, although not quite as certain as biden winning the 2020 presidential election.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Where did you get the idea I'm a Trump supporter?  Far from it.  But I am a supporter of a fair and legal election.

 

Which begs the question why so many people are against an audit of the results?

 

The electoral college isn't for another month, and the guy's still president until January either way.  Why the huge flap over a delay?  It's not as if the Biden transition can do anything until his inauguration anyway.

 

Where did you get the impression many people are against the George audit of the results?  I don't recall any posts against the Georgia audit, only posts against Trump's reaction to the election results.

 

No convincing evidence of widespread fraud has been presented.  Historical precedence and practical needs dictate that under these circumstances Trump should concede, or at the very least allow the funds and briefings that will enable Joe Biden and his team prepare for the tremendous amount of work they will have starting on January 20.

 

Trump is both preventing an orderly transition to the top job in US government and undermining faith in democracy.  That is what people are against.

 

If you recall, during the much, much closer 2020 election it was the Republican's opposing the Florida recount.  They went to the Supreme Court to stop it.

[polpott]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

 

And I go back to no evidence that Jimmy Hoffa's dead, either.  Where do you figure he's hiding out?

 

The purpose of the hand recount is to look for evidence.  If there isn't any,  what have we lost by waiting for the audit results?

 

Did Neil Armstrong walk on the moon? Who shot JFK?

 

I realise that Trump and his supporters like conspiracy theories.There is no conspiracy.Just A.N.Other presidential election. What has been lost by waiting? There's a pandemic, if you hadn't noticed. Thousands are dying whilst Trump hides on a golf course, and does his best to prevent Biden from getting on with the job.

 

Trump has turned American democracy into a complete joke and the joke goes on. USA the laughing stock of the world.

[simple1]

8 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Where did you get the idea I'm a Trump supporter?  Far from it.  But I am a supporter of a fair and legal election.

 

Which begs the question why so many people are against an audit of the results?

 

The electoral college isn't for another month, and the guy's still president until January either way.  Why the huge flap over a delay? 

 

 

trump's behaviour with refusing to concede is destructive to democratic principles, he doesn't have any  path to win, just acting as a bitter man and throwing as many obstacles as he can to Biden's success as president - not acting in the national interest as he is sworn to do. 

 

It's not as if the Biden transition can do anything until his inauguration anyway.

 

This comment contradicts all MSM reporting and Biden's observations for trump creating roadblocks for preparing handover of power for a smooth transition process. e.g. funding and resources for Biden's team for pre-emptive planning for Covid mitigation, national security matters and so on. An example...

 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by simple1

[impulse]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

trump's behaviour with refusing to concede is destructive to democratic principles, he doesn't have any  path to win, just acting as a bitter man and throwing as many obstacles as he can to Biden's success as president - not acting in the national interest as he is sworn to do. 

 

It's not as if the Biden transition can do anything until his inauguration anyway.

 

This comment contradicts all MSM reporting and Biden's observations for trump creating roadblocks for preparing handover of power for a smooth transition process. e.g. funding and resources for Biden's team for pre-emptive planning for Covid mitigation, national security matters and so on. An example...

 

Speaking of the MSM, how did the NYT go from "Crisis of Election Security" (unfixable by 2020 election) in 2018 to "Nope, didn't happen" after Trump was voted out?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/magazine/election-security-crisis-midterms.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/21/magazine/the-myth-of-the-hacker-proof-voting-machine.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/topic/subject/voting-machines

 

How does Biden getting Covid data help anyone before December when the electoral college either confirms him (or not), much less before January when he actually becomes president (or not)?  He's a private citizen until he's confirmed and inaugurated.

 

To be clear, I hope Trump is out, and I hope he's hounded in civil and criminal court to the end of his life (along with his grifter family) for all the misdeeds that have come to light while he was under the scrutiny of the presidency.  But election integrity is more important than one election and the awful thought of a delay in declaring a winner in one election while they confirm that there has been no nefarious act.  On either side.

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by impulse

[RJRS1301]

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Speaking of the MSM, how did the NYT go from "Crisis of Election Security" (unfixable by 2020 election) in 2018 to "Nope, didn't happen" after Trump was voted out?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/magazine/election-security-crisis-midterms.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/21/magazine/the-myth-of-the-hacker-proof-voting-machine.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/topic/subject/voting-machines

 

How does Biden getting Covid data help anyone before December when the electoral college either confirms him (or not), much less before January when he actually becomes president (or not)?  He's a private citizen until he's confirmed and inaugurated.

 

To be clear, I hope Trump is out, and I hope he's hounded in civil and criminal court to the end of his life (along with his grifter family) for all the misdeeds that have come to light while he was under the scrutiny of the presidency.  But election integrity is more important than one election and the awful thought of a delay in declaring a winner in one election while they confirm that there has been no nefarious act.  On either side.

 

Heard of Planning and Risk Management? I know these terms are an anathema for the current incumbent, however the incoming group may have better knowledge and understanding of these concepts

[stevenl]

19 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

How does Biden getting Covid data help anyone before December when the electoral college either confirms him (or not), much less before January when he actually becomes president (or not)?  He's a private citizen until he's confirmed and inaugurated.

He should be able to get the right people in and have those people make plans, execution start on inauguration day.

[placeholder]

Hypocrisy much from the Republicans?

Senate GOP blocks three election security bills

Senate Republicans blocked an effort by Democrats to unanimously pass three election security-related bills Tuesday, marking the latest attempt to clear legislation ahead of the November elections

Democrats tried to get consent to pass two bills that require campaigns to alert the FBI and Federal Election Commission (FEC) about foreign offers of assistance, as well as legislation to provide more election funding and ban voting machines from being connected to the internet.

But Sen. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) opposed each of the requests. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/482569-senate-gop-blocks-three-election-security-bills

 

The Cybersecurity 202: Democratic base fired up by effort to ban Internet-connected voting machines

As the 2020 election approaches, voting security groups are trying to rally the public behind an effort to ban Internet connections from U.S. voting machines that could be hacked by Russia and other foreign adversaries.

And they’re getting an assist from activists on the left, who are still burned by the 2016 election, when Russia hacked troves of Democratic emails and strategically released them to damage the Hillary Clinton campaign.

The joint effort has resulted in a staggering number of people -- 50,000 -- submitting comments on the issue to the Election Assistance Commission, a federal body that’s rewriting voluntary guidelines for voting machines, the organizing groups told me. 

The Cybersecurity 202: Democratic base fired up by effort to ban Internet-connected voting machines

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/the-cybersecurity-202/2019/05/30/the-cybersecurity-202-democratic-base-fired-up-by-effort-to-ban-internet-connected-voting-machines/5cef29301ad2e52231e8e870/

 

House passes sweeping Democrat-backed election security bill

he House passed a Democrat-backed bill that would require election systems to use voter-verified paper ballots as an attempt to avoid election interference by a party-line vote of 225-184 on Tuesday, with only one Republican voting in favor. 

The Securing America’s Federal Elections (SAFE) Act — spearheaded by Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) — would authorize $600 million for the Election Assistance Commission, which would be allocated to states to enhance their security ahead of 2020 and includes language that would ban voting machines from being connected to the internet and being produced in foreign countries.

In addition to the $600 million, the bill would provide $175 million biannually for “sustainment” funds aimed at maintaining election infrastructure.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/450737-house-passes-sweeping-democrat-backed-election-security-bill

 

 

[heybruce]

40 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Speaking of the MSM, how did the NYT go from "Crisis of Election Security" (unfixable by 2020 election) in 2018 to "Nope, didn't happen" after Trump was voted out?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/magazine/election-security-crisis-midterms.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/21/magazine/the-myth-of-the-hacker-proof-voting-machine.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/topic/subject/voting-machines

 

How does Biden getting Covid data help anyone before December when the electoral college either confirms him (or not), much less before January when he actually becomes president (or not)?  He's a private citizen until he's confirmed and inaugurated.

 

To be clear, I hope Trump is out, and I hope he's hounded in civil and criminal court to the end of his life (along with his grifter family) for all the misdeeds that have come to light while he was under the scrutiny of the presidency.  But election integrity is more important than one election and the awful thought of a delay in declaring a winner in one election while they confirm that there has been no nefarious act.  On either side.

 

Yes, election integrity is important, but there is no evidence of any large scale fraud.  The winner of this election is Joe Biden, that is far more clear cut than Trump's 2016 victory was.  It's time to move on.

 

Biden needs a team in place that has been properly vetted, had all required background investigations for required security clearances done, and are up on all current operations and plans. 

 

Under the best of circumstances it is impossible to get everything done before the inauguration; the goal is to have the top players ready to go so they can get started on their own teams.  Every day that Trump delays this process he further damages the country.  It just goes to show what a flag hugging hypocrite he is.

[RJRS1301]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yes, election integrity is important, but there is no evidence of any large scale fraud.  The winner of this election is Joe Biden, that is far more clear cut than Trump's 2016 victory was.  It's time to move on.

 

Biden needs a team in place that has been properly vetted, had all required background investigations for required security clearances done, and are up on all current operations and plans. 

 

Under the best of circumstances it is impossible to get everything done before the inauguration; the goal is to have the top players ready to go so they can get started on their own teams.  Every day that Trump delays this process he further damages the country.  It just goes to show what a flag hugging hypocrite he is.

And now he has fired another offical who has disagreed with him regarding election results. Vicious vindictive unfit to hold the office of dog catcher 

[Tug]

Yup trump fired the guy in charge of election security because he wouldent lie for trump now trump will replace the guy with some tody yes man boot licker so trump can lie about voter fraud.I personally haven’t forgotten the crippling of the post office the solicitation of foreign interference the 1 drop box for each county in Texas ,Linsey graham trying to strong arm various state House sectarys he’s still trying to rig and steal the election not buying a word of it 

[simple1]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Speaking of the MSM, how did the NYT go from "Crisis of Election Security" (unfixable by 2020 election) in 2018 to "Nope, didn't happen" after Trump was voted out?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/magazine/election-security-crisis-midterms.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/21/magazine/the-myth-of-the-hacker-proof-voting-machine.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/topic/subject/voting-machines

 

How does Biden getting Covid data help anyone before December when the electoral college either confirms him (or not), much less before January when he actually becomes president (or not)?  He's a private citizen until he's confirmed and inaugurated.

 

To be clear, I hope Trump is out, and I hope he's hounded in civil and criminal court to the end of his life (along with his grifter family) for all the misdeeds that have come to light while he was under the scrutiny of the presidency.  But election integrity is more important than one election and the awful thought of a delay in declaring a winner in one election while they confirm that there has been no nefarious act.  On either side.

 

 

The sites you reference have a paywall. However, from what I was able to read they were opinion pieces, not news reporting. The Federal Agencies responsible for cyber security have confirmed the current infrastructure for vote processing is secure. There has been plenty of reporting on the necessity for Biden and co obtaining data to plan for the rollout of Covid mitigation processes and other matters, so no need to go through that issue yet again.

 

One think for damn sure the past four years of the trump administration has led to ridiculous levels of speculation, conspiracy stuff etc; it would be interesting to know the cost of wasted time and security distractions etc dealing with the daily BS emanating from  trump and co.

[RJRS1301]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

The sites you reference have a paywall. However, from what I was able to read they were opinion pieces, not news reporting. The Federal Agencies responsible for cyber security have confirmed the current infrastructure for vote processing is secure. There has been plenty of reporting on the necessity for Biden and co obtaining data to plan for the rollout of Covid mitigation processes and other matters, so no need to go through that issue yet again.

 

One think for damn sure the past four years of the trump administration has led to ridiculous levels of speculation, conspiracy stuff etc; it would be interesting to know the cost of wasted time and security distractions etc dealing with the daily BS emanating from  trump and co.

Thge biggest conspiracy theory is that his adminstration achieved any semblence of competent governance, let alone displayed eithics and ability to understand complex issues.