How are the bars, restaurants, agogos, massage shops, gentleman clubs and any business doing during covid?

[Yellowtail]

54 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

When rent goes up the obvious answer is to move the bars to a cheaper rent area.

LK Metro being a prime example of this happening.

Which I think I indicated further down in the same post.  

[Yellowtail]

17 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Its like this all the way down. I guess they couldn't get around to the sidewalks in the last two years. Unbelievable. Well I'll leave them to their problems because they got them

I do not think they have any money. 

[morrobay]

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I do not think they have any money. 

[BritManToo]

35 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What dangers? I have a kid here and he's doing fine. I would be insane to put in a California school. 

I have 2 kids here, but they ain't tourists in Pattaya. 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I have 2 kids here, but they ain't tourists in Pattaya. 

You said Thailand, not Pattaya. Plenty of nice things to do in Thailand that do not involve the sex-trade or any significant dangers as far as I know. 

 

I go to an event in Pattaya every year (pre-covid anyway) and my wife and kid love it. Even more since the Hilton & Festival opened. 

 

So again, what dangers? 

[TaaSaparot]

Anyway, how are the bars, restaurants, agogos, massage shops, gentleman clubs and businesses doing during covid?

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Did you miss the thread title?

Bars, agogos, massage, gentlemen's clubs?

No, did you?

 

 

Again, what dangers? 

[Danderman123]

6 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

Anyway, how are the bars, restaurants, agogos, massage shops, gentleman clubs and businesses doing during covid?

In general, those places are doing better than other businesses in Pattaya. I am seeing lots of dead businesses away from areas with bars.

[Danderman123]

On 5/15/2022 at 11:42 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Looks like Walking st agogos are doing ST3,000 LT5,000 plus bar fines up. Windmill persisting with ATKs so I won't go there until they drop it

 

https://youtu.be/3YXpx7QkQpw

That was my position on Windmill, but then I went there with a factory girl, and I realized that Windmill gives free Covid tests for Thai ladies. So I found out my “date” was Covid-free.

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

Anyway, how are the bars, restaurants, agogos, massage shops, gentleman clubs and businesses doing during covid?

You say that like it is present tense..... I say they are currently doing much better, but we are coming out of Covid in reality. 

[Yellowtail]

16 hours ago, morrobay said:

Get back from lunch. Conversation /game over

That's what I thought, thanks. 

[Rimmer]

Off topic posts about some rocks in Miami removed and subsequent off topic bickering about them

[scubascuba3]

Finally they've started working on Walking St surface, left half from beach road

[Leaver]

On 5/17/2022 at 1:32 AM, Yellowtail said:

I disagree with this. Do you have any data that supports it? 

 

It's well known that leases here are heavily in the favor of the landlord, to the point that should a business fail, the landlord cleans up, and then gets to to lease out the property again to the next dreamer, and the cycle continues. 

 

I don't have a link, but ask any business owner here if they think their Thai landlord is reasonable, the majority will say, no.

 

On 5/17/2022 at 1:32 AM, Yellowtail said:

No, I agree that when rent goes up, that the cost has to be passed on to the consumer. 

 

That said, as property value goes up, rent has to go us well. Do you disagree?  

 

This probably goes to the heart of the issue.  

 

Let's be honest, it was the sex trade that first put Pattaya on the map decades ago, and it has evolved into city since then.  Whilst Pattaya now has more to offer than just the sex trade, businesses in Central Pattaya are firmly focused on adult nightlife and the sex trade. 

 

Now, it's the Thai girls, and the available sex, that attracts tourists to Pattaya, so the Thai landlord thinks his property is busy with tourists, therefore land values have gone up, so he wants more rent for his property.  I agree with you on this point, however, the businesses / properties are / were busy (pre covid) due to the sex trade.  

 

Imagine a proper crackdown on prostitution here, or, hypothetically, no girls could / would go with customers for sex, not only would businesses  close like we saw in covid, but the land values would plummet. 

 

Pattaya Beach is terrible, so sex tourists would not be replaced by families or couples here. 

 

My point being, that high value of the commercial land here relies very much on the sex trade.  Do you agree with this?

 

Now compare the sex trade here to, say, the taxi industry, pre Uber.  Taxis and the plates used to be expensive to buy, now they are near worthless.  Taxis all around the world had no competition, and taxi prices were high, due to government fees, taxes, licensing etc.  Along comes Uber, and they took a huge slice of the market share, and could have cheap prices because of no government fees, taxes, licensing etc. 

 

As I have said, as meeting Thai girls online here for partying and sex grows in popularity, due to the high costs of rents for owners, passed on as lady drinks and bar fines, will Thai landlords lower rents, because profits from lady drinks and bar fines are declining?  They probably won't, and what of the Thai landlords that borrowed to buy a commercial property here, say a bar, they will not like negative equity. 

 

I have asked members who defend the lady drink / bar fine business model where the line in the sand for them is with lady drink prices and bar fines.  Yet to receive a reply.  These prices will keep going up, pushing more online, which drives price further up, pushing more online.  It's a vicious cycle. 

 

Eventually, we get to 120 beers, 250 lady drinks, and 1500 baht bar fines, in a little beer bar, because the Thai landlord still wants his rent, and you don't think sex tourists will start looking at Cambodia, Philippines, Vietnam etc?

 

On 5/17/2022 at 1:32 AM, Yellowtail said:

I think the sex-tourism in Thailand  is dying, and being replaced with more family oriented tourism. 

My post was Pattaya specific. 

 

On 5/17/2022 at 1:32 AM, Yellowtail said:

Again, as property values go up, rent goes up, that's just the way it is.

 

Again, the property prices went up due to the sex trade, now with the internet and apps, the sex trade here has been, and will continue to be, digitally disrupted, just like the taxis were.  Where's the land value then? 

 

As in the example I gave, taxis used to be expensive to buy, the vehicle, the plates, the license etc, now they are worthless, all around the world.  The land values here were / are based on a flourishing sex trade operating out of bricks and mortar commercial properties.  That has, and will continue to change, as more and more girls, and sex tourists, move online.  

 

Have you considered, "that's just the way it is" for digitally disrupted industries?  

 

On 5/17/2022 at 1:32 AM, Yellowtail said:

Nothing new about girls working on the side, and no, I don't blame them.

 

Should, for many, their "side" becomes their main, what then for bar owners?  

 

Once again, how does the bar owner tell his Thai landlord that he can't get decent looking girls, and no one is buying lady drinks and paying bar fines anymore?  Will the Thai landlord tell his bar owner tenant, "But they have to pay, because the land has a high value."  ???? 

 

On 5/17/2022 at 1:32 AM, Yellowtail said:

The bar owner quits paying the rent and goes out of business. As long as the landlord can collect the the rent, why should they reduce it? 

 

So we will have a lot of vacant and derelict commercial properties here in the future, unless Thai landlords share some of the digitally disrupted pain, and there is a market correction. 

 

On 5/17/2022 at 1:32 AM, Yellowtail said:

While I agree that that online bookings cut into "...the the whole lady drink / bar fine business model...

 

Ok, so, care to put a percent on the impact, and predict a percent, say, 3 years from now?  It's only going to get bigger. 

 

On 5/17/2022 at 1:32 AM, Yellowtail said:

the lady drink / bar fine is a different experience,

 

Can that "experience" compete with online in the future?  Just look at the global success of Tinder. 

 

As the older guys used to the lady drink / bar fine business model leave the market, the new ones coming through are very much tech savvy, possibly preferring that "experience" in the same way they prefer AirBnb, Uber, Tinder etc.  They can get on an app and arrange to meet girls the week before they even arrive.  Where's the lady drinks and bar fines coming from that crowd, and have they done anything wrong?  Should they be called Cheap Charlie?

 

On 5/17/2022 at 1:32 AM, Yellowtail said:

in much the same way that buying a shirt online is different from buying a shirt at a nice department store. Online sales absolutely cut into the sales of department stores, but department stores are still around, and more and more getting into online sales, which I imagine will be part of the the better managed gash-joints going forward. 

 

I agree.  It really surprises my that The Nightwish Group haven't put all their girls on an app for "out call massage."  The girls collecting a fee for The NWG.  I would say why they haven't done this is because they have so much invested in bricks and mortar that they need to perpetuate the old business model.  

 

Just like the agencies do with the gogo girls and bar girls, a smart crew could develop a "dating site" specific to the main tourist areas of Thailand for out call short / long time "massage" and really have a huge impact on the old business model here, not to mention becoming the "Uber" of "massage" in Thailand.  Cha-Ching. 

 

Your shirt example is interesting.  Say the rent on the bricks and mortar department store that sells shirts was so high, that the disparity in cost of the shirts from the department store was so great that most bought the same shirt online?  The department store being the bar / rent / Thai landlord and the online being the apps many girls are currently working off.  What eventually happens to the department store / bar in Pattaya when the different in cost becomes so great?  

 

Long after covid has come to pass, there is interesting times ahead here for businesses sticking with the old Pattaya business model.  

 

We all know it's the world's oldest profession, but that doesn't mean the internet can't / won't change the delivery of such services here in Pattaya.    

[Leaver]

On 5/17/2022 at 3:17 AM, PJ71 said:

I disagree with most of what you say, people have been coming to Pattaya to get their "Nat King Cole' for 40-50 years plus, this will never change.

 

Does n't matter what you waffle on about, this will not change.

 

Do you get that - people will continue to visit Pattaya for all the same reasons as before.

 

If you know ( claimed ) so much about how it all works i'm sure you'd have been very rich in Pattaya by now, however..........

 

For the record, I have never said Pattaya will fall in a hole, or the sky will fall down on Pattaya. 

 

People will still be coming to Pattaya for their "Nat King Cole" but many just may be arranging such services using a different method than buying lady drinks and paying bar fines.  Do you get that?

 

Have you NEVER hired an Uber style taxi, or booked an AirBnB? 

[Leaver]

On 5/17/2022 at 7:42 AM, aussiexpat said:

That's hilarious, so using the same logic:

 

(1) I've watched thousands of movies so would be a great movie Director

 

(2) I've watched F1 for over 20 years so should become the next Ferrari Team Principle

 

(3), etc, etc, etc

 

I actually find your post quite funny because what you post in disagreement, actually proves the point I am making.

 

You've watched thousands of movies, and decades ago cinemas were popular, then along came VHS and hire shops, and that killed cinemas.  Then along came DVD's, and whist that killed VHS, shops were still hiring DVD movies. Then along came the internet with Netflix, and big screen TV's, and they killed the hire shops.

 

Yet, you seems to think the old business model of lady drinks and bar fines, which is the cinema so to speak, will not be effected by the internet and apps that the girls have been working on for some time.   Too funny.

 

I also note you did not reply to the question when is the last time YOU paid a bar fine, and what would be the maximum lady drink / bar fine you would be prepared to pay. 

 

As for F1, no, I doubt you could be a Ferrari Team Principle, but I bet you can drive a regular car, and I bet, with some time in the cockpit, you could learn to drive an F1 car and use the paddle shift.  Does that mean you'll match Hamilton's times, no, but you would be able to drive an F1 car. 

 

So, here's a new bar owner in Pattaya, and Pattaya has a hot tropical climate, and he knows his customers like cold beer, particularly his Aussie customers.  By your thinking, he needs to call a refrigeration mechanic to turn the temperature down on his new beer fridge to around 3 degrees, because he was and accountant in a former life and would have no idea about how to keep beer cold for customers.  It's all rocket science to him.  The same when a light bulb fails, he need to call an electrician because what would he know about changing a light bulb?  ????

 

On 5/17/2022 at 7:42 AM, aussiexpat said:

Meanwhile all the bars outside of GoGo's and Soi 6 appear to be doing very well  (soi 7 & 8  were dead years before covid).

 

Why do you think Sois 7 and 8 died?  Why do you refuse to even contempt other sois could die also, particularly with the rise of Soi Baukhao and Tree Town. 

 

Why do you think gogo's and Soi 6 are struggling?  Could it be pricing?  There must be a reason.  What does the future hold for them? 

 

You never comment on what's not going so well here.  Why is that? 

 

On 5/17/2022 at 7:42 AM, aussiexpat said:

Not all of us come to Pattaya for bar fines like you think

 

Once again, you think you are disagreeing with me, but your comment actually agrees with the point I am making.

 

Sounds like you haven't paid a bar fine for a long while, either have I. 

 

Question is, who's paying them, and who will continue to pay them into the future, particularly as they keep rising in price? 

 

[morrobay]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Finally they've started working on Walking St surface, left half from beach road

'They are working on it' Meanwhile this is Phukethttps://vt.tiktok.com/ZSdCrTHWT/?k=1

[The Hammer2021]

Many bars are doing well  but we will know when the naked Go Gos are open till 4 am - That is the real  barometer

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Many bars are doing well  but we will know when the naked Go Gos are open till 4 am - That is the real  barometer

have you checked recently? Dollhouse?

[PJ71]

47 minutes ago, Leaver said:

For the record, I have never said Pattaya will fall in a hole, or the sky will fall down on Pattaya. 

You've implied this numerous times.

 

47 minutes ago, Leaver said:

People will still be coming to Pattaya for their "Nat King Cole" but many just may be arranging such services using a different method than buying lady drinks and paying bar fines.  Do you get that?

Some, not many IMO. There's still a lot of people that going to the bars for the interaction or company.

 

48 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Have you NEVER hired an Uber style taxi, or booked an AirBnB? 

Correct, never.

[The Hammer2021]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

have you checked recently? Dollhouse?

 Very good question DH  EB - Beavers being  some of the best- I meant to check last week but was detained but will check this week if possible

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

You've implied this numerous times.

 

No, I haven't.  You have assumed it.

 

14 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

Some, not many IMO. There's still a lot of people that going to the bars for the interaction or company.

 

Ok, would you care to put a percentage on "some?  Can you see that percentage growing in the future, particularly with rising lady drink and bar fine prices? 

 

Note:  I never said "all."  I said many.  So, does a lot of "some" equal "many?"  How much is "a lot" as a percentage? 

 

I always arrange to meet the online girls in a bar.  I get the "bar girl experience" minus the lady drinks and bar fines. 

 

I don't know why members keep posting that you can't have a drink in a bar with an online freelancer. 

 

14 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

Correct, never.

 

Is is possible that the majority of sex tourists to Pattaya in the future will have experience in the "gig economy" and using such platforms, and have no problem trying out a new way of meeting hookers here? 

 

You admitted "some" were already using various platforms for this purpose.  Do you think it could gain in popularity in the future?  If not, why not? 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Leaver

[Leaver]

On 5/18/2022 at 3:44 AM, Yellowtail said:

So again, what dangers? 

 

The roads are quite dangerous here,particularly from drunk drivers / riders.  Hard to deny that. 

[PJ71]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

No, I haven't. 

You have, i'm sure many on here will agree with me.

 

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Ok, would you care to put a percentage on "some?  Can you see that percentage growing in the future, particularly with rising lady drink and bar fine prices? 

I've no idea what % it would be, i can't see that percentage going down tho. A lot of people are drawn to Pattaya for the vibe, although you can go shopping online for your dorris it's not the same as out with your mates for a few beers and some playing around, that will never dissapear for many.

[Leaver]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:00 AM, jacko45k said:

You say that like it is present tense..... I say they are currently doing much better, but we are coming out of Covid in reality. 

 

Yes, so what are we going to be comparing?  End of lock down, to last end of lock down.  End of covid to pre covid?  Low season 2022 to low season 2019? 

 

It's a clean slate.  It's all a big unknown. 

 

Problem is, covid rent discounts will soon end, and your average 3 year lease will soon be expiring.

 

I, and perhaps some others, were under the belief Thailand would declare covid done with, and fling open the doors and allow the bars to open  up fully, causing a big wave of mongers to rush back in, and for the bars that have toiled through covid, their reward would be good profits. 

 

Test & Go and the Thailand Pass as seen a trickle come back, and now in low season, even less than a regular low season. 

 

The big wave never came. 

 

Next high season will be very interesting. 

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, PJ71 said:

've no idea what % it would be, i can't see that percentage going down tho.

 

So if it's not going down, it's going to go up.  I can't see it being a stable percentage, not with younger mongers coming through.  If it's going to go up, what impact will this have on the traditional lady drink / bar fine business model? 

 

1 hour ago, PJ71 said:

A lot of people are drawn to Pattaya for the vibe, although you can go shopping online for your dorris it's not the same as out with your mates for a few beers and some playing around, that will never dissapear for many.

 

I have never said it will disappear.

 

The question is, will online have such an impact in the future that bar owners can't afford their rent, because meeting their liabilities relied on X amount of lady drinks and X amount of bar fines a month? 

 

I agree there will still be guys buying lady drinks and paying bar fines well into the forseable future, but as "some" "many" "a lot" move online, and continue to do so, how does a bar owner continue to meet his business expenses, particularly when the Pattaya business model has lost X percent of customers willing to buy lady drinks and pay bar fines?  

 

As for being out with your mates, I remember, pre covid, being in Retox watching a match.  I was by myself, but there was a table of 3 younger guys nearby.  I could tell they were very excited, possibly not long flown in.  They had a meal and some drinks.  As most young ones do these days, they were on their phones a lot.  Then, the volume of their conversation got louder with comments like; "Look at this one, look at this one."  Replies like, "She's fit" and "Oh, yeah man."  A lot of laughter and egging on each other going on at the table.  Before my match finished, two girls arrived, separately, to their table.  There were the usual greetings and introductions, including learning how to pronounce the girl's name properly, so I gathered they were not that experienced in Thailand, followed by getting the girl a drink.  Not sure what the third guy lined up, as I left before a third girl arrived to the table.  By the look of them, I doubt they were staying in Retox, but rather moving on for partying the night away.   Of the two girls that arrived, they were attractive. 

 

I remember thinking to myself, that is the future of the way sex tourists will meet hookers here, and in some part, it has influenced my posts on the topic, on this forum, and I stand by my opinion on it, having met girls online myself. 

 

How are bar owners going to compete with this in the future?  These guys had their mates, a/c, food, no pushy bar girls, no drunken bar owner, no bar hopping looking for a girl for the night, no lady drinks and bar fines to pay etc. 

 

The current predominate business model isn't going away anytime soon, but the writing is on the wall. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Leaver

[aussiexpat]

^ Can we just ban Leaver from happy threads? This thread was created because of his constant doom & gloom posts about bars failing and yet here he is still spilling his self entitled BS

 

Also isn't talk about illegal activities banned on here, so all his chat about so called bar fines and his whole life needing prostitutes  in Thailand not allowed to be discussed (so sad) ?

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by aussiexpat

[Leaver]

25 minutes ago, aussiexpat said:

^ Can we just ban Leaver from happy threads? This thread was created because of his constant doom & gloom posts about bars failing and yet here he is still spilling his self entitled BS

 

Also isn't talk about illegal activities banned on here, so all his chat about so called bar fines and his whole life needing prostitutes  in Thailand not allowed to be discussed (so sad) ?

 

 

Hilarious.  Strength in numbers, aussieexpat?  Reminds my of the school yard, so many years ago. 

 

How are bar fines illegal?  There's no guarantee paying a bar fine results in sex / prostitution? 

 

I ask you some simple questions and you want me banned. Seriously?

 

How is a "How are the bars.............etc" thread a "happy thread?"  It wasn't created because of anything I posted.  Isn't the OP a question of the reality of what's really happening on the ground here? 

 

You make it sound like you are only here for Pattaya's nice beach, and singing in the choir.  ???? 

 

How is your bar going?  Are you making more on youtube than the bar?  ????

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Leaver

[TaaSaparot]

@Leaver You need a hobby.

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Finally they've started working on Walking St surface, left half from beach road

Just when crowds will return? It  amazes me that despite having over 2 years of the place looking like a ghost town, NOW they get back to that job. I hear the long time Central Rd pavement might take more time as there is a dispute ongoing! The guys plying for election probably never used a pavement in their lives.