Brexit talks still stuck because EU is asking too much, UK says

[snoop1130]

Brexit talks still stuck because EU is asking too much, UK says

By Sarah Young, Guy Faulconbridge

 

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Brexit trade talks are stuck on fishing, governance rules and dispute resolution because the European Union is asking too much of Britain, a senior member of the British government said on Tuesday.

 

Just 30 days before Britain leaves the EU’s orbit following a transition period since it formally quit the bloc, the sides are trying to agree a trade deal to avoid a turbulent rupture that could snarl almost $1 trillion in annual trade.

 

With each side urging the other to compromise, a French official said Britain must clarify its positions and “really negotiate”, and cautioned that the EU would not accept a “substandard deal”.

 

Even if a trade accord is secured, it is likely to be just a narrow deal on goods, and some disruption is almost certain as border controls are erected between the world’s biggest trading block and Britain.

 

Talks have snagged on fishing in Britain’s rich waters, on what EU rules London will accept and on how any dispute might be resolved.

 

“The EU still wants to take the lion’s share of the fishing in our waters - which is just not fair given that we are leaving the EU,” Michael Gove, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and a senior ally of Prime Minister Boris Johnson, told Sky.

 

“The EU still want us to be tied to their way of doing things,” Gove said. “The EU are at the moment reserving the right, if there is any sort of dispute, not quite to rip everything up but to impose some really penal and tough restrictions on us, and we don’t think that’s fair.”

 

A trade deal would not only safeguard trade but also buttress peace in British-ruled Northern Ireland, though some disruption is almost certain at the busiest EU-UK border points.

 

Failure to secure a deal would snarl borders, spook financial markets and disrupt delicate supply chains that stretch across Europe and beyond -- just as the world grapples with the vast economic cost of the COVID-19 outbreak.

 

Gove said the process was close to conclusion but avoided repeating an earlier prediction of a 66% probability of a deal. He declined to put a figure on the probability.

 

BREXIT NERVES

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Europe’s most powerful national leader, has said some of the EU’s 27 member states are getting impatient.

 

“The priority is for the British to clarify their positions and really negotiate to find a deal,” a French presidency official told Reuters. “The EU also has interests to fight for, those of a fair competition for its businesses and those of its fishermen.”

 

“The Union has made a clear and balanced offer for a future partnership with Britain. We will not accept a substandard deal which would not respect our own interests,” the official said.

 

Irish Prime Minister Micheal Martin said a deal could be done this week.

 

“There is a landing zone for an agreement,” Martin told the Irish Times in an interview. “We are now really in the endgame if a deal is to be arrived at this week.”

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-12-01

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[worgeordie]

23 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

“The Union has made a clear and balanced offer for a future partnership with Britain. We will not accept a substandard deal which would not respect our own interests,” the official said.

Yes and the UK is taking exactly the same position....

regards worgeordie

[Rookiescot]

Then walk away.

Everyone is getting sick of this will they wont they soap opera. 

[Chomper Higgot]

The UK know the EU rules, they helped write them.

 

[oompie69]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Then walk away.

Everyone is getting sick of this will they wont they soap opera. 

So, what exactly will they be left with if EU does not give in? Do they, in fact, have any bargaining power at all?

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Then walk away.

Everyone is getting sick of this will they wont they soap opera. 

More like a Brian Rix Whitehall farce, I agree just walk away............Anyone for tennis?

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

More like a Brian Rix Whitehall farce, I agree just walk away............Anyone for tennis?

 

Its getting to the stage where my legendary patience and understanding is wearing thin Vogie. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

Expect in two days an article reading “UK and EU keen to get a deal, but time is running out” 

 

Then two days later “We want a deal, say EU and UK, but not at any price” 

 

This starts to feel like that Bill Murray movie. And it will probably go on like this for a while, even after 1 Jan 21. 

[OneMoreFarang]

The UK should just cancel the talks. They don't want to agree to a reasonable deal with the EU. Ok, fine, then don't waste everybody's time.

Boris and others always said no deal is better than a bad deal. Fine. No deal is it.

If that is said now then everybody has at least almost a month to prepare for the consequences. There is no point in talking, talking, talking and then on the 31st December nobody is prepared.

Bye bye UK. It would have been nice to continue on reasonable terms with you. But you didn't want that. Good luck for the future, you will need it.

[Tropicalevo]

5 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Brexit talks still stuck because EU is asking too much

Of course they are. The EU has been milking the UK financially and depleting its fishing stocks for years. They are going to throw their rattle out of the pram until they get what they want.

The EU does not underestand the meaning of the word compromise. They are just arrogant politicians desperate to rape and pillage the UK because it has said that it wants to leave.

NB Had I been allowed to vote I would have voted to remain. So i am not a Brexiteer.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Tropicalevo

[placeholder]

45 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Of course they are. The EU has been milking the UK financially and depleting its fishing stocks for years. They are going to throw their rattle out of the pram until they get what they want.

The EU does not underestand the meaning of the word compromise. They are just arrogant politicians desperate to rape and pillage the UK because it has said that it wants to leave.

NB Had I been allowed to vote I would have voted to remain. So i am not a Brexiteer.

You would have voted to remain in a union that milks the UK financially and is depleting its fishing stocks? Are you a member of the Masochist Party?

[pacovl46]

8 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

Of course they are. The EU has been milking the UK financially and depleting its fishing stocks for years. They are going to throw their rattle out of the pram until they get what they want.

The EU does not underestand the meaning of the word compromise. They are just arrogant politicians desperate to rape and pillage the UK because it has said that it wants to leave.

NB Had I been allowed to vote I would have voted to remain. So i am not a Brexiteer.

You’re acting like being in the EU has been all negative for the UK! Why did they join in the first place then?! And to be fair, the UK is as much responsible for failed talks as the EU because their demands are unreasonable. If you wanna play the blame game then blame both parties equally because that’s the naked truth! 

Edited December 2, 2020 by pacovl46

[nauseus]

13 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The UK know the EU rules, they helped write them.

 

Not the important fishy ones.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

You’re acting like being in the EU has been all negative for the UK! Why did they join in the first place then?! And to be fair, the UK is as much responsible for failed talks as the EU because their demands are unreasonable. If you wanna play the blame game then blame both parties equally because that’s the naked truth! 

 

We joined because the government of the day was led by a convinced but lying Europhile PM who eventually won a tiny majority in the HoC. There was no referendum and by the time one happened in 1975 the British had been lied to yet again plus the bad effects of the EEC had not yet all become evident, plus, by then, it had not mutated into the mainly political monster it is today.

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

We joined because the government of the day was led by a convinced but lying Europhile PM who eventually won a tiny majority in the HoC. There was no referendum and by the time one happened in 1975 the British had been lied to yet again plus the bad effects of the EEC had not yet all become evident, plus, by then, it had not mutated into the mainly political monster it is today.

Does this mean that like Tropicalevo you would have voted to stay in the EU also?

[JonnyF]

13 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The UK should just cancel the talks. They don't want to agree to a reasonable deal with the EU. Ok, fine, then don't waste everybody's time.

Boris and others always said no deal is better than a bad deal. Fine. No deal is it.

If that is said now then everybody has at least almost a month to prepare for the consequences. There is no point in talking, talking, talking and then on the 31st December nobody is prepared.

Bye bye UK. It would have been nice to continue on reasonable terms with you. But you didn't want that. Good luck for the future, you will need it.

 

Reasonable? Are you serious? There is nothing reasonable about what the EU is proposing.

 

Every day there is no 'breakthrough' is a good day as far I am concerned. The EU is incapable of compromise, so hopefully we'll go No Deal and they will lose their fishing rights and jeopardize their huge trade surplus. The French fisherman, German car workers, Italian winemakers etc. will all be thrilled that Barnier has thrown them under the bus due to the EU commission's vendetta, especially in the middle of Covid. Greed, intransigence and spite, what a nasty combination of attributes the EU has shown as it's mask has slipped.

 

Thank god we won in 2016 . Well done, UK electorate. Good riddance to the EU.

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Reasonable? Are you serious? There is nothing reasonable about what the EU is proposing.

 

Every day there is no 'breakthrough' is a good day as far I am concerned. The EU is incapable of compromise, so hopefully we'll go No Deal and they will lose their fishing rights and jeopardize their huge trade surplus. The French fisherman, German car workers, Italian winemakers etc. will all be thrilled that Barnier has thrown them under the bus due to the EU commission's vendetta, especially in the middle of Covid. Greed, intransigence and spite, what a nasty combination of attributes the EU has shown as it's mask has slipped.

 

Thank god we won in 2016 . Well done, UK electorate. Good riddance to the EU.

It's nice that you are concerned about the people in the EU.

Did you also think about the problems of the people in the UK?

Each country in the EU has still many other countries to trade with according to EU rules. The UK is alone.

[polpott]

22 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Greed, intransigence and spite, what a nasty combination of attributes the EU has shown as it's mask has slipped.

 

Jean-Claude Junker made this stance quite clear prior to the referendum and it was debated with some vigour in the British press. Of course Boris Cummings dismissed this as "Project Fear". Why the shock horror now. You knew the consequences of voting leave or did you too believe it was all "Project Fear"?

[David in the north]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

We joined because the government of the day was led by a convinced but lying Europhile PM who eventually won a tiny majority in the HoC. There was no referendum and by the time one happened in 1975 the British had been lied to yet again plus the bad effects of the EEC had not yet all become evident, plus, by then, it had not mutated into the mainly political monster it is today.

Correct. I voted to join a "Common Market" - not a united states of Europe. We were lied to. Now run as a benefit club for mostly unelected troughers!

[polpott]

15 minutes ago, David in the north said:

Correct. I voted to join a "Common Market" - not a united states of Europe. We were lied to. Now run as a benefit club for mostly unelected troughers!

You voted to remain in the EC in 1975 (we were already members). I voted to leave. Presumably you voted leave in 2016, I voted remain. You were lied to by the Tories on both occasions. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by polpott

[Baerboxer]

15 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Yes and the UK is taking exactly the same position....

regards worgeordie

 

It seems they are both using the same playbook - Negotiation Skills for Numpties!

 

And are too dumb to notice. 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, polpott said:

You voted to remain in the EC in 1975 (we were already members). I voted to leave. Presumably you voted leave in 2016, I voted remain. You were lied to by the Tories on both occasions. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

Lied to this time by a factional section within the Conservatives to be precise. A section that never expected, like Farage, to actually win. And have little clue what to do when they did.

 

Notice how quiet some of them are now. 

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It seems they are both using the same playbook - Negotiation Skills for Numpties!

 

And are too dumb to notice. 

The EU are playing a blinder. They wanted to make it clear, to the rest of the EU states, the dire consequences of leaving. They are doing just that.

[JonnyF]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's nice that you are concerned about the people in the EU.

Did you also think about the problems of the people in the UK?

Each country in the EU has still many other countries to trade with according to EU rules. The UK is alone.

With the greatest respect, if the EU's inability to negotiate in good faith causes issues for EU citizens, that is the responsibility of the EU commission, not me.

 

The UK will be fine, once we get out of that corrupt protectionist racket. We'll go from strength to strength. 

 

The UK is not 'alone', that is hyperbole, complete nonsense. We have signed around 30 trade deals already and have another 20 agreed in principle. We'll continue to trade with the EU on WTO terms until they come to their senses. We are far from 'alone'. We are an independent sovereign state open to trading around the world, like most countries outside the EU. 

[Baerboxer]

19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's nice that you are concerned about the people in the EU.

Did you also think about the problems of the people in the UK?

Each country in the EU has still many other countries to trade with according to EU rules. The UK is alone.

 

Alone - I doubt for long! Both on trading and on leaving the EU.

 

Watch them leave when the gravy train derails and they have to actually start contributing rather than taking. The job creation scheme for non elected bureaucrats in an unwanted tier of political control won't last, it never does.

 

The EU was always doomed - too many seeing it as a freebies club.

 

Shame really because the original ideas and visions were wonderful. 

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, polpott said:

The EU are playing a blinder. They wanted to make it clear, to the rest of the EU states, the dire consequences of leaving. They are doing just that.

 

In which case, they have lied repeatedly about being fair and wanting a deal. That should send alarm bells to every member state, apart from France and Germany of course. that the tail now wags the dog. 

 

French intransigence and spite, German neurosis and the rest wondering whose going to make up the shortfall in member contributions for them. 

 

Sure, playing a real blinder.

[JonnyF]

12 minutes ago, polpott said:

Jean-Claude Junker made this stance quite clear prior to the referendum and it was debated with some vigour in the British press. Of course Boris Cummings dismissed this as "Project Fear". Why the shock horror now. You knew the consequences of voting leave or did you too believe it was all "Project Fear"?

 

Well, we were in the EU a long time so I believed they were greedy, obstinate, intransigent, unreasonable and totalitarian.

 

I underestimated their petty vindictiveness and willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face. My bad ????. 

 

[polpott]

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

In which case, they have lied repeatedly about being fair and wanting a deal. That should send alarm bells to every member state, apart from France and Germany of course.

No lies. Junker made the Eu's position clear before the referendum. The deal would be on their terms and would punish the UK for leaving the club. If you publicly slagged off your local golf club and terminated your membership would you expect to be welcomed back to the 19th hole with open arms?

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by polpott

[Baerboxer]

14 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Expect in two days an article reading “UK and EU keen to get a deal, but time is running out” 

 

Then two days later “We want a deal, say EU and UK, but not at any price” 

 

This starts to feel like that Bill Murray movie. And it will probably go on like this for a while, even after 1 Jan 21. 

 

Totally agree. If you read Negotiation books, one of the tactics is called "broken record" tactic. Basically one side simply keeps repeating its demand / standpoint over and over and over again. The idea being that the other side will eventually tire and give in particularly if all the other points have been agreed.

 

But here, both seem to be trying the same idea!

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, polpott said:

No lies. Junker made the Eu's position clear before the referendum. The deal would be on their terms and would punish the UK for leaving the club. If you publicly slagged off your local golf club and terminated your membership would you expect to be welcomed back to the 19th hole with open arms?

 

 

 

Can you provide citation for where Junker specifically said that please?