Brexit talks still stuck because EU is asking too much, UK says

[Laughing Gravy]

17 minutes ago, polpott said:

Your post sounds like that of someone who has posted a number of links that bear no relevance to the question and are embarrassed by the fact that you personally can find not one quote in them that furthers your argument so in your defence you attack the poster. You refuse to debate with me because you have nothing to debate with. 

 

I have come to this conclusion having read your links and found nothing relevant to the question, "Does Germany rule the EU?". I dare say you've come to the same conclusion but aren't big enough to admit it.

You make it easy. I have put it into simple speak for you as you struggled reading the last lot.

 

Just from one article. I have a hundred more. No doubt your comprehension and meta-cognitive skills will be challenged but I am in hope that you might actually learn.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-germany-influence-insight-idUSBRE99N05320131024

 

"In Brussels, Germans have shrugged off their postwar reserve and make no apology for shaping Europe’s future, taking key posts in EU institutions and pushing Berlin’s trade interests with vigor".

 

"that have increased not just the number of Germans in senior jobs in Brussels but the extent to which they answer to Berlin"

.

"Merkel has shown she is prepared to lay down the law in person - as when she demanded an EU retreat this summer from a looming trade war with China that would have hurt the exports of Germany’s big car makers and engineering firms"

 

"Its 27 partners can hardly deny that a state which is home to one EU citizen in six and produces a fifth of the bloc’s output must have a big say. Berlin’s new assertiveness, aided by a widening economic gap it has opened up over struggling allies, is, however, provoking grumbles - though there is little sign yet of a serious challenge to weaken Merkel’s grip in Brussels"

 

".Once Merkel’s Europe adviser, Corsepius, 53, is secretary-general of the European Council. Some of his 3,000 staff see him as the man who cut their access to Facebook and travel websites to make them work harder. But his real power is to steer the agendas and legal advice that shape meetings of EU governments".

 

"“The further improvement of Germany’s personnel presence in European institutions is very important for the government,” a Foreign Ministry spokesman said. “The aim is that Germany, as the biggest EU member state, is represented in an appropriate way at all levels of EU institutions.”

 

"Raw numbers of EU official posts do not tell the whole story. By Berlin’s calculations about 10 percent of senior civil servants in the EU Commission and a similar proportion of senior diplomats in the EU’s foreign policy directorate are German. Germans make up 16 percent of the bloc’s 507-million population".

 

"An internal Commission report, seen by Reuters, shows there are already 45 Germans in the senior jobs in that institution - at departmental director level or above - more than France and well exceeding Italy or Britain, who each have fewer than 30"

 

"In late May, as the European Commission prepared to impose sanctions on Beijing for its alleged dumping of cheap solar panels in EU markets, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang flew to Berlin to warn of a trade war that would hurt the German car industry.

 

Telling the German public she would do all she could to stop a trade war that would damage German exports, she picked up the phone to Commission President Barroso in Brussels.

Despite a denial from Barroso’s office, a senior EU official confirmed to Reuters that Merkel did call. Several officials said that was then followed by a call from Barroso, a former prime minister of Portugal, to EU trade commissioner Karel De Gucht. The Belgian did not want to change course against China"

 

"Yet the message was clear. Germany, bankroller of euro zone bailouts and biggest net contributor to the EU budget, would not risk wrecking ties with a country that buys $50 billion a year of machinery, from Porsches to tanks and much other equipment".

 

If you have read this far down, if you are not embarrassed with your statement that Germany does not rule the EU, then you should be.

Welcome to debating.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Laughing Gravy

[IvorBiggun2]

What happened to Iceland after they withdrew their request to join the EU.

 

 

Quote

 

Yet the methods we used to bring this remarkable transformation about would not have been possible had we joined the EU and adopted the euro and become bound by EU regulations. Had we done so, our fate would very likely instead have resembled that of Greece.

My government’s decision to withdraw the application for EU membership was, of course, met with hostility from globalists, both foreign and domestic. At every step we were treated to predictions of impending catastrophe very similar to those now being ascribed to Brexit. How odd that adherents of a new global order continue to advocate an international system based on fear and submission rather than reciprocity.

If Iceland, while outside the EU, can achieve the highest level of growth of any western nation so soon after the collapse of its banking system and public finances, then I’m sure that a post-Brexit Britain — the world’s fifth-largest economy — can prosper, too. Nevertheless, there will certainly be some negative short-term consequences from leaving the EU. What can you do to avoid them?

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-britain-like-iceland-will-thrive-outside-the-eu

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

What happened to Iceland after they withdrew their request to join the EU.

 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-britain-like-iceland-will-thrive-outside-the-eu

An excellent article. Yes he knows the UK will thrive the EU know that also, hence the obsession with restricting the UK and keeping it aligned to its rules.

 

"If the Union’s primary objective in those circumstances turns out to be punishing the citizens of the outgoing country for their decision — even if that means causing great damage to the remaining countries — then it is hardly a great advert for EU membership. If this does turn out to be the case, the sooner Britain leaves, the better. Let the EU do their worst. Britain will do its best and I am sure that will be good enough".

 

How aptly put.

 

[IvorBiggun2]

10 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

An excellent article.

Yes it is and needs to be read all the way through. But I doubt the remainers will.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Yes it is and needs to be read all the way through. But I doubt the remainers will.

Correct, they are only interested in digging around looking for negative stuff. ????

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, luckyluke said:

You wanted, you voted, you got it. 

Why the need to knock at the door after? 

Unless changing of attitude of Mr. Johson, you will be at the same point you were 4 years ago, being :

" We now left the E.U., the World is there for us". 

 

Why the need to knock on the door? You should read the Lisbon Treaty sometime?

[luckyluke]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Why the need to knock on the door? You should read the Lisbon Treaty sometime?

 

As a past member you needed to knock at the door of the E.U. if wanted to discuss/obtain something from it.

 

The complete Treaty is easy to find on the Net.

 

Some may interpret it in their own personal way.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

As a past member you needed to knock at the door of the E.U. if wanted to discuss/obtain something from it.

 

The complete Treaty is easy to find on the Net.

 

Some may interpret it in their own personal way.

 

Boris has to be seen to be trying to get a trade deal whether he actually wants one or not. That is a political necessity.

 

Article 50 (2) basically sets it out so that there need be no "knock on the door' but rather an agreement on how we leave. But the part "the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union" was interpreted by the EU to limit these negotiations so that actual trade talks were not included in the Withdrawal Agreement - this was not necessary but foolishly accepted by Theresa May and I remember how surprised David Davis was at this acceptance. So these trade deal talks are now an add-on - since the WA was finally signed - one way for the EU the drag this out, keep the subscription money coming in and increase the chance of the UK breaking down and not leaving at all. 

 

We need to go now. It's 4.5 years already.

 

[david555]

26 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Boris has to be seen to be trying to get a trade deal whether he actually wants one or not. That is a political necessity.

 

Article 50 (2) basically sets it out so that there need be no "knock on the door' but rather an agreement on how we leave. But the part "the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union" was interpreted by the EU to limit these negotiations so that actual trade talks were not included in the Withdrawal Agreement - this was not necessary but foolishly accepted by Theresa May and I remember how surprised David Davis was at this acceptance. So these trade deal talks are now an add-on - since the WA was finally signed - one way for the EU the drag this out, keep the subscription money coming in and increase the chance of the UK breaking down and not leaving at all. 

 

We need to go now. It's 4.5 years already.

 

As before taking of to Brussels diner . he made it look as an final ultimatum ..... again he had to change his tune and climbing down ... poor blundering Boris 

Questions in H.O.C shall  waiting him ????

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

As before taking of to Brussels diner . he made it look as an final ultimatum ..... again he had to change his tune and climbing down ... poor blundering Boris 

Questions in H.O.C shall  waiting him ????

 

Link please?

[transam]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

As before taking of to Brussels diner . he made it look as an final ultimatum ..... again he had to change his tune and climbing down ... poor blundering Boris 

Questions in H.O.C shall  waiting him ????

How is it you never mention Macron, the bloke who is holding everything up, only because his fishermen folk will lynch him, strange that...........????

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

As before taking of to Brussels diner . he made it look as an final ultimatum ..... again he had to change his tune and climbing down ... poor blundering Boris 

Questions in H.O.C shall  waiting him ????

No reason for Boris to climb down the Uk made a generous offer on Fishing to the EU, which the EU declined

It seems the largest concern for French fishermen is

Margolle said French fishing grounds would be overrun by boats from other European nations if access to British waters ended.

“There will never be enough room for everyone,” he said “Fish stocks will be wiped out.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-fishing/french-fishermen-could-scuttle-brexit-trade-deal-and-their-livelihoods-idUSL8N2IP3MG

[david555]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Link please?

By  exeption i follow your reqyest , suggest you read sometimes post full , but i understand you are hoping no link should e here in brexiteers defeating day's ...lol 

Is this is not to read as an Ultimatem  ???

This was in full in a former post from me ...

 

Boris ready to quit trade talks tonight unless Ursula von der Leyen caves on EU red lines | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

Edited December 10, 2020 by david555

[luckyluke]

33 minutes ago, nauseus said:

We need to go now. It's 4.5 years already.

 

This will be decided by Mr. Johnson and the E.U..

 

In one way or another, not all Leave voters will be pleased.

 

 

 

[david555]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

How is it you never mention Macron, the bloke who is holding everything up, only because his fishermen folk will lynch him, strange that...........????

Why would i play your game ....???  

[transam]

Just now, david555 said:

Why would i play your game ....???  

No game, I asked a question, if you want to bottle-it, fine by me......

[Laughing Gravy]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

In one way or another, not all Leave voters will be pleased.

You are possibly right but one thing for sure no remainers are pleased.

[david555]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

No reason for Boris to climb down the Uk made a generous offer on Fishing to the EU, which the EU declined

It seems the largest concern for French fishermen is

Margolle said French fishing grounds would be overrun by boats from other European nations if access to British waters ended.

“There will never be enough room for everyone,” he said “Fish stocks will be wiped out.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-fishing/french-fishermen-could-scuttle-brexit-trade-deal-and-their-livelihoods-idUSL8N2IP3MG

Fish not any more number 1 as Merkel has a more difficult thing for demand ...

But first read this post i found on a Brexteers comment site 

 

The UK fishermen need also to have access to the European market, and the European fishermen need to keep access to their fishing rights."

UK fishermen currently sell 80 percent of their catch in Europe, meaning a no deal Brexit could also hurt those north of the English channel

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You are possibly right but one thing for sure no remainers are pleased.

Sure, but they are the looser.

[david555]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

No game, I asked a question, if you want to bottle-it, fine by me......

you still dont get it ...... i am not to play on 

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

Fish not any more number 1 as Merkel has a more difficult thing for demand ...

But first read this post i found on a Brexteers comment site 

 

The UK fishermen need also to have access to the European market, and the European fishermen need to keep access to their fishing rights."

UK fishermen currently sell 80 percent of their catch in Europe, meaning a no deal Brexit could also hurt those north of the English channel

My understanding of forum rules if you quote from another site you have to provide a link or your post will be removed

[david555]

22 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

My understanding of forum rules if you quote from another site you have to provide a link or your post will be removed

Your understanding could be right .... so show your weakness and ask to remove .... later i shall try to post a new with link .... so you look than very low .... 

 

Shall i later with such posts , just claiming as mine to wipe out kind of comment as yours now ?..... i can be very handy and clever if i  confront some like you ....lol ????

Edited December 10, 2020 by david555

[IvorBiggun2]

8 minutes ago, david555 said:

 

UK fishermen currently sell 80 percent of their catch in Europe, meaning a no deal Brexit could also hurt those north of the English channel

Will It?

 

 

Quote

Restricting access by EU fleets leaves more for British boats. Fishing communities voted strongly pro-Brexit in 2016 — including those in Scotland, though Scotland overall voted 62 per cent for Remain.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/952b33d2-269d-4ba1-811c-80687c97205d

[david555]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

My understanding of forum rules if you quote from another site you have to provide a link or your post will be removed

Good luck in finding it in those 269 posts as no direct link possible to post 

EU’s Common Fisheries Policy has become the 'most horrible swear word' in the fishing industry (telegraph.co.uk)

[david555]

7 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Will It?

 

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/952b33d2-269d-4ba1-811c-80687c97205d

French fisherman shall not allow to land U.K. fish to E.U. markets  you can bet on that ..... even E.U. could come in the game with a ban .... was mentioned already before in news 

 

Would U.K. tolerate so if in same kind happen to them ..... i dont think so ..... the beginning of trade wars maybe ..?..... , that is why they both  dragging so long with all that trade negotiations ...

[vinny41]

23 minutes ago, david555 said:

Fish not any more number 1 as Merkel has a more difficult thing for demand ...

But first read this post i found on a Brexteers comment site 

 

The UK fishermen need also to have access to the European market, and the European fishermen need to keep access to their fishing rights."

UK fishermen currently sell 80 percent of their catch in Europe, meaning a no deal Brexit could also hurt those north of the English channel

 

5 minutes ago, david555 said:

Good luck in finding it in those 269 posts as no direct link possible to post 

EU’s Common Fisheries Policy has become the 'most horrible swear word' in the fishing industry (telegraph.co.uk)

I think most people know the Telegraph as a UK newspaper not as a "Brexteers comment site " as you described maybe it was a case that you were shy or ashamed about reading the telegraph but thanks for the link

[RayC]

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

What happened to Iceland after they withdrew their request to join the EU.

 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-britain-like-iceland-will-thrive-outside-the-eu

 

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

An excellent article. Yes he knows the UK will thrive the EU know that also, hence the obsession with restricting the UK and keeping it aligned to its rules.

 

"If the Union’s primary objective in those circumstances turns out to be punishing the citizens of the outgoing country for their decision — even if that means causing great damage to the remaining countries — then it is hardly a great advert for EU membership. If this does turn out to be the case, the sooner Britain leaves, the better. Let the EU do their worst. Britain will do its best and I am sure that will be good enough".

 

How aptly put.

 

 

1 hour ago, transam said:

Correct, they are only interested in digging around looking for negative stuff. ????

 

Even if the rather obvious difficulties can be overcome, namely that (a) the EU as a member of the EEA would entertain this idea {as near to 100% unlikely as damn it} and (b) that we can open and successfully conclude negotiations with the existing members of the EFTA to gain membership of that club by 31/12/20 {about as likely as (a)}, do you actually realise what you are supporting?

 

For one thing, membership of the EEA does not come free of charge either in financial terms or sovereignty (Norway used as an example):

https://www.norway.no/en/missions/eu/ten-facts-about-the-eea2/

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-eu-payments/

 

Note that one of the conditions is adoption of the 'Four Freedoms'. You three may be happy with that (?), but I can hear @JonnyF and @Loiner chocking on their Somtam and Corn Flakes from here.

 

Notwithstanding all the difficulties in implementing your suggested solution, it's a step in the right direction so far as I'm concerned.

 

I do just need to ask though, if this is the preferred option for (most?) Brexiters, why exactly are we bothering to leave the EU?

[david555]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

I think most people know the Telegraph as a UK newspaper not as a "Brexteers comment site " as you described maybe it was a case that you were shy or ashamed about reading the telegraph but thanks for the link

I learned something today from you ...thanks ....lol

so to avoid when  posting a very accurate line from whoever ....i shall take it as mine as it is impossible to keep a library of those  whenever  would need it to mention  to people who need for whatever a link  lol.... as you should know  for article i always give full links and dates and journalists names as i know brexiteers in last ressort of hopes use that question to save face ...."link ?" 

 

And i never  be ashamed to show i read the oppositions ammunition  story's ???? as sometimes very helpful to use in the opposite direction ????

Edited December 10, 2020 by david555

[transam]

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

 

Even if the rather obvious difficulties can be overcome, namely that (a) the EU as a member of the EEA would entertain this idea {as near to 100% unlikely as damn it} and (b) that we can open and successfully conclude negotiations with the existing members of the EFTA to gain membership of that club by 31/12/20 {about as likely as (a)}, do you actually realise what you are supporting?

 

For one thing, membership of the EEA does not come free of charge either in financial terms or sovereignty (Norway used as an example):

https://www.norway.no/en/missions/eu/ten-facts-about-the-eea2/

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-eu-payments/

 

Note that one of the conditions is adoption of the 'Four Freedoms'. You three may be happy with that (?), but I can hear @JonnyF and @Loiner chocking on their Somtam and Corn Flakes from here.

 

Notwithstanding all the difficulties in implementing your suggested solution, it's a step in the right direction so far as I'm concerned.

 

I do just need to ask though, if this is the preferred option for (most?) Brexiters, why exactly are we bothering to leave the EU?

Cleaner streets for one, not a member of the future U.S.of G. is another. That is good enough for starters.

Edited December 10, 2020 by transam

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

do just need to ask though, if this is the preferred option for (most?) Brexiters, why exactly are we bothering to leave the EU?

No deal for this brexiter and always has been but i suspect it won't be. I guess that gets lots of remainers 49 choking on whatever they are eating.