Neighbour's dispute in Condominium

[alyx]

Hey everyone

 

I am on the committee of a 22 storey building in Bangkok.

A month ago we decided to have all the floors cleared of any items with a deadline tomorrow 10 of December.

It was quite a challenge but it is (almost) a success and we managed to clear all the floors apart from one floor: this owner is stocking a third of this floor with washing machine and other old items, which he refuses to remove saying that he has nowhere to put them, asking for a grace period of....ONE YEAR. (this stuff has been in the corridor for two years already). This morning we came up with a solution: the committee cleared a storage (unused common area) to allow his stuff to be stocked until he finds a place. 

In the afternoon he approached the manager and told him that he was forbidding anyone to touch it and had no intention of removing it ????????

Some are afraid of him as he is a lawyer ( my point is that, on the contrary that should be held against him) so it was decided to wait a bit more (but I find this situation intolerable if not unbearable after 99% of the co-owners and the owners abided by the regulation.

What can be done ?

( not asking about throwing his stuff away...unless it is legal of course)

 

 

[Airalee]

Can you claim it’s a fire hazard and obstructs emergency egress?

[alyx]

I did suggest that but I was told that it was at the end of a corridor with no exit apart from the window you can see in the vdo.

 

I am quite upset I must admit 

[blackcab]

First thing is not to take it personally. The easiest way forward is to give the co-owner a grace period of, say, 3 months.

 

Get the building manager to write to him every month and remind him that his goods are in the common area, contrary to a decision made by the committee.

 

Explain what will be happening after the grace period, namely that the goods will be moved and stored.

 

Document everything.

 

When it comes time to move the goods, do it while he is at work or out of the building.

[alyx]

Thank you 

Can the period be shorter ?

I did mention that as well but one the members of the committee said we would be considered by the law as "thieves" if we were to touch his stuff.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, alyx said:

Hey everyone

 

I am on the committee of a 22 storey building in Bangkok.

A month ago we decided to have all the floors cleared of any items with a deadline tomorrow 10 of December.

It was quite a challenge but it is (almost) a success and we managed to clear all the floors apart from one floor: this owner is stocking a third of this floor with washing machine and other old items, which he refuses to remove saying that he has nowhere to put them, asking for a grace period of....ONE YEAR. (this stuff has been in the corridor for two years already). This morning we came up with a solution: the committee cleared a storage (unused common area) to allow his stuff to be stocked until he finds a place. 

In the afternoon he approached the manager and told him that he was forbidding anyone to touch it and had no intention of removing it ????????

Some are afraid of him as he is a lawyer ( my point is that, on the contrary that should be held against him) so it was decided to wait a bit more (but I find this situation intolerable if not unbearable after 99% of the co-owners and the owners abided by the regulation.

What can be done ?

( not asking about throwing his stuff away...unless it is legal of course)

 

 

What can be done, don't get on a committee to decide how other people should live their lives especially if you don't know how to resolve issues like this.

Edited December 9, 2020 by FritsSikkink

[Surelynot]

My first port of call would be a baseball bat......how the hell have has anyone allowed this situation even come into being?

 

 

No one in my condo is allowed to leave even shoes outside...

[chickenslegs]

How about charging him rent for using the common areas.

[ChouDoufu]

common area?  okay, then.

 

have all the tenants gather up their surplus stuff and store it in that common area at the end of the hallway near his door as the designated community storage point.

 

maybe add some shelves and racks for the condo cleaning gear...... smelly mops and buckets.

 

if the lawyer complains, well, just tell him the condo has nowhere else to store it, and he is forbidden to touch anything.  tell him it's only a temporary measure, as you'll have a new storage area ready......in a year.  or perhaps two.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[alyx]

555 that I had not thought of it but it should be a solution if it comes to that ( is it legal ?)

[alyx]

24 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

What can be done, don't get on a committee to decide how other people should live their lives especially if you don't know how to resolve issues like this.

When I think that you had to edit, in order to write such a silly post: I hope your entourage enjoys your sense of humour, or are you one of the adepts of the Ostrich Policy: Hide your head in the ground ? Just remember that its bottom is up and kicking

 

If not on the committee I would be utter upset  if I were to live next door to the guy (which you do not know I do or not)

[alyx]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

First thing is not to take it personally. The easiest way forward is to give the co-owner a grace period of, say, 3 months.

 

Get the building manager to write to him every month and remind him that his goods are in the common area, contrary to a decision made by the committee.

 

Explain what will be happening after the grace period, namely that the goods will be moved and stored.

 

Document everything.

 

When it comes time to move the goods, do it while he is at work or out of the building.

Thank you 

Can the period be shorter ?

I did mention that as well but one the members of the committee said we would be considered by the law as "thieves" if we were to touch his stuff.

 

[impulse]

Get the committee to implement (or enforce existing) penalties for being in violation.  Send him a bill every time the penalty increases.  File a lien on his condo if he doesn't pay.  He may never pay, but he can't sell the condo until the liens are settled.

 

Simply extending the deadline isn't going to work if he's shown a willingness to defy the current deadline.  He'll just defy the next one.

 

[ChouDoufu]

you guys either have to solve this now, or it will remain unresolved forever.  and if he gets away with it, others will follow.  what is written in the condo bylaws?  i assume no personal stuff to be stored outside apartments in the common areas.  what are the penalties?

 

get your juristic person to consult a lawyer to send the correct format demand letter.   since he failed to meet the deadline notice, he must get the stuff moved within 72 hours, or it will be moved for him.

 

do not offer to store the stuff for free.  why should he get a free storage room for being a butthole?

 

after 72 hours any stuff in the common area shall be moved to the condo temporary holding facility, with rent charged at the going rate.  if unpaid, his carp will be removed to the curb.

[Oliver Holzerfilled]

2 hours ago, alyx said:

Hey everyone

 

I am on the committee of a 22 storey building in Bangkok.

A month ago we decided to have all the floors cleared of any items with a deadline tomorrow 10 of December.

It was quite a challenge but it is (almost) a success and we managed to clear all the floors apart from one floor: this owner is stocking a third of this floor with washing machine and other old items, which he refuses to remove saying that he has nowhere to put them, asking for a grace period of....ONE YEAR. (this stuff has been in the corridor for two years already). This morning we came up with a solution: the committee cleared a storage (unused common area) to allow his stuff to be stocked until he finds a place. 

In the afternoon he approached the manager and told him that he was forbidding anyone to touch it and had no intention of removing it ????????

Some are afraid of him as he is a lawyer ( my point is that, on the contrary that should be held against him) so it was decided to wait a bit more (but I find this situation intolerable if not unbearable after 99% of the co-owners and the owners abided by the regulation.

What can be done ?

( not asking about throwing his stuff away...unless it is legal of course)

 

 

 

Is he reselling items to make ends meet?  What type of law does this bum practice?

[alyx]

3 minutes ago, Oliver Holzerfilled said:

 

Is he reselling items to make ends meet?  What type of law does this bum practice?

No he is not. The fact is that his son lives on the same floor and has the same kind of behaviour but with less items.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, alyx said:

Thank you 

Can the period be shorter ?

I did mention that as well but one the members of the committee said we would be considered by the law as "thieves" if we were to touch his stuff.

 

It can be shorter, but I wouldn't advise less than 1 month.

 

Theft is the act of permanently depriving another person of their goods. In (1) moving his goods to another part of the building, and (2) storing them securely, and (3) granting him access to them, nobody would be stealing anything.

 

I would advise you to avoid outright confrontation over this issue, even if that means quietly moving the goods late at night. 

[alyx]

33 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

you guys either have to solve this now, or it will remain unresolved forever.  and if he gets away with it, others will follow.  what is written in the condo bylaws?  i assume no personal stuff to be stored outside apartments in the common areas.  what are the penalties?

 

get your juristic person to consult a lawyer to send the correct format demand letter.   since he failed to meet the deadline notice, he must get the stuff moved within 72 hours, or it will be moved for him.

 

do not offer to store the stuff for free.  why should he get a free storage room for being a butthole?

 

after 72 hours any stuff in the common area shall be moved to the condo temporary holding facility, with rent charged at the going rate.  if unpaid, his carp will be removed to the curb.

Thanks. 
you are quite correct and I hold the same stance. I think that, although I am all for a  friendly solution, it is a better path. The 72 hours is a legal window ? 

[alyx]

1 minute ago, blackcab said:

 

It can be shorter, but I wouldn't advise less than 1 month.

 

Theft is the act of permanently depriving another person of their goods. In (1) moving his goods to another part of the building, and (2) storing them securely, and (3) granting him access to them, nobody would be stealing anything.

 

I would advise you to avoid outright confrontation over this issue, even if that means quietly moving the goods late at night. 

Thank you so much 

[Dan O]

What do the Condo Regulations say about common area usage and violations? If you have violations outlined then follow the regulations. If the committee is a legitimate committee under the guidelines of the condo then have the committee then issue a letter of compliance to him specifically with a reasonable time for compliance (15 days, but no more than 30 days) outlining the action to be taken if compliance is not followed. He's just stalling and calling your bluff that you will be intimidated and not act on it. Only act as a committee and not an individual. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Dan O

[alyx]

21 minutes ago, Dan O said:

What do the Condo Regulations say about common area usage and violations? If you have violations outlined then follow the regulations. If the committee is a legitimate committee under the guidelines of the condo then have the committee then issue a letter of compliance to him specifically with a reasonable time for compliance (15 days, but no more than 30 days) outlining the action to be taken if compliance is not followed. He's just stalling and calling your bluff that you will be intimidated and not act on it. Only act as a committee and not an individual. 

Thanks 

I am not acting individually: I am working closely with everyone in the committee and all decisions are taken by vote. 
it seems that the official letter issued and delivered on a weekly basis until the deadline is over is the best solution. Once that period is over the committee can legally order the removal of the items which will be  kept in a storage. Pictures of course or video will be taken in case the owner sues the committee and the management for the deterioration of his items. 

[1FinickyOne]

3 hours ago, Surelynot said:

My first port of call would be a baseball bat.

surely - a good game of softball will take his mind off the problems... 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

common area?  okay, then.

 

have all the tenants gather up their surplus stuff and store it in that common area at the end of the hallway near his door as the designated community storage point.

 

maybe add some shelves and racks for the condo cleaning gear...... smelly mops and buckets.

 

if the lawyer complains, well, just tell him the condo has nowhere else to store it, and he is forbidden to touch anything.  tell him it's only a temporary measure, as you'll have a new storage area ready......in a year.  or perhaps two.

 

 

Looking at the photo, the batteries on the right are a risk due to potential acid leakage.

An excellent suggestion, CDF. Hoist with his own petard.

[onebir]

3 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

maybe add some shelves and racks for the condo cleaning gear...... smelly mops and buckets.

Spray anything left out in the hallway with fish sauce?

 

Or put weird things inside anything with an inside. If confronted, point out that he's putting random <deleted> in the hallway... (If a personal effect is left in a communal space, presumably the space within the personal effect remains communal? Otherwise why not just set up a tent in hallway and live there too!)

[Captain Monday]

My condo is very strict, even shoes are not allowed to be kept outside and halls mopped frequently.

That is an unbelievable pile of  mostly worthless garbage.

Definitely an egress and fire hazard. Refusing free storage,  a nutter. He would never move it.

 

 

 

 

[david555]

Start painting that corridor ....so you have a legall and practicall reason for his belongings to be placed away so the access for the paint works can proceed an of course his belongings not get spotted with paint .....

 

Let the works go advance slow ...

 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

Just junk really should be in a skip, inside his condo is probably full of it. The committee should have access to legal advice, use it as others have suggested 

[ChipButty]

The place looks like a dump and his stuff make it look worse

[ChipButty]

Our condo rules, No shoes outside the door, No rubbish on each landing there is a utility room thats right next to the lift and that gets emptied a couple of time a day and no hanging laundry on the balcony

[Pravda]

Is this how expats live? Wow!