SETV vs. STV

[Mai mee]

OK here's the deal, I'm a retirement age male, US citizen, and I own a condo in Patong Phuket (Thai company). I've been stuck in the US since I left in late March 2020, and I'm hating it, I think I'm not alone in that. I think I've waited as long as I can for the travel and visa situation to re-normalize, and have come to believe that it's not going to happen anytime soon, and if I want to return I'm going to have to suck it up, jump through the seemingly impossible hoops, BS insurance, COE, quarantine, etc.

 

In the past, I've done everything on tourist visas, as I'd spend about half the year in Thailand, and about half the year in the States, but now I'm looking to make it permanent in Thailand and a retirement extension to a non-O looks like the simplest solution. I'm prepared to do the 800K thing as that seems the simplest overall. I don't think I can get an OA as I had some trouble with the law 30+ years ago (misdemeanor stuff but still criminal), and it's still gonna show up on a NCIC background check. I can't imagine the Thai embassy official is gonna say "nah, that was minor stuff from a long time ago, you're fine" here's your O-A...Am I correct in this? But it does seem an extension of stay on a non-O based on retirement from inside Thailand is quite do-able.

 

Right now it looks like the only visas I can qualify for in the US are a SETV or an STV, I don't see how I can get a non-O from here other than an OA which I don't think I can qualify for because of my imperfect Police Report. The STV gives me 9 months in country which looks good at first but is specifically precluded from being converted to any other type inside Thailand. The SETV as I understand it CAN be converted to a Non-O in country and then an extension applied for to achieve long-stay status. The question I have is If I enter on a SETV how sure can I be that I'll be able to do the conversion and extension in Phuket before my available 90 days (minus 16 days plus travel time to Phuket from BKK...) runs out. In other words, is it a sure thing as long as I have the 800K, or are there other issues? I'm pretty sure I can get the 800k into my Bangkok Bank account before I leave the US...

 

The STV seems to give me 9 months guaranteed which would feel mighty comfortable, but no upgrade path, meaning I'd have to leave the Kingdom in 9 months HOPING that things are normalized by then and I can get a Non-O in Penang or someplace else to reenter and extend.

 

 

I'm looking for the best path to pursue towards long stay under the current conditions, and I could use some advice from the seasoned hands here. So what would you do in my situation?

 

Thanks,

Gordo

 

 

[DrJack54]

You need to obtain a SETV.

After entry to Thailand you can then obtain a non O based on retirement at immigration.

The non O retirement can not be obtained in US.

Also the STV can not enable you to obtain non O at immigration office.

If you can afford it stick 800k in a Thai bank and leave it. Annual extensions walk in the park.

Be aware that for the non O application you will need to show that the 800k came from overseas.

Good luck.

[Mai mee]

Thanks Jack, so is a wire transfer from my US account to my Bangkok Bank account and it's ordinary documentation enough or is there some other form, like from my Thai bank, needed?

 

Also is the concession process pretty much a sure thing or is it uncertain in any way and needing an agent or "cooperation" of the Thai immigration officials?

[Mai mee]

OOPs meant to say conversion process, not concession...

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, Mai mee said:

OOPs meant to say conversion process, not concession...

Yeah it's sometimes referred to as conversion.

In any event you certainly do not require an agent. Also the annual extension is a walk in the park, especially when you are using money in bank method.

Regarding showing funds came from overseas, there are threads about that regarding the codes in your bankbook. 

Many US guys use Transferwise or similar companies.

Also note that requirement is only needed for your non O application. For all your extensions you do not need to show where your money in bank came from.

Edited December 12, 2020 by DrJack54

[George36]

Very timely thread.  Thanks.

 

My wife and I have decided that we would travel to Pattaya in the same manner that you are considering.  We hope to leave in mid-February 2021 with the 60 day tourist visa and apply for the retirement visa once in country.  
 

I have a thread started where I have been asking questions that might assist here.  I will be following this thread to make up any tidbits of help for us.  We will be traveling from California.

 

Thanks.

[GrandPapillon]

Where do you live in the US? things could be much worse in Thailand IMHO

[Mai mee]

13 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

Where do you live in the US? things could be much worse in Thailand IMHO

New Mexico, and we're QUITE locked down here now. It's cold here in the mountains, and I have to stand in a queue   in the snow to be allowed to enter the supermarket to buy food (Governors covid restrictions). At my home in Patong, I can walk out my front door and I'm 100 meters from the nicely quiet beach where I can eat a fresh coconut and restore my nice brown suntan. My balconies overlook the bay and the Andaman sea, and my lovely Tilac wants only to cook fresh food for me and make me happy.

 

I appreciate the concern but I keep in touch with my neighbors and friends there so I have a pretty good idea of how things stand on the ground right now. I'm not a tourist or a fresh new visitor, this has been my second home for 6 years. I speak passable basic Thai, and know which way is up... There is no question for me that being in Thailand, covid restrictions and all is far superior to my situation in the US right now.

[Mai mee]

[Mai mee]

Just trying to get back home...

[Salerno]

Nice view (6370 THB/Per night a tadge above my normal budget).

 

Can see why you want to get back to it.

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Salerno

[Mai mee]

9 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Nice view (6370 THB/Per night a tadge above my normal budget).

 

Can see why you want to get back to it.

 

That's the rate my management company was getting for the time I couldn't be there before all of this covid business and the travel bans... I haven't had a single booking since I left Patong in March... Not one baht... seems to me, I might as well be occupying my own condo because I'm sure not getting any income from it right now.

[Salerno]

3 hours ago, Mai mee said:

Thanks Jack, so is a wire transfer from my US account to my Bangkok Bank account and it's ordinary documentation enough or is there some other form, like from my Thai bank, needed?

 

There's a few bits and pieces you'll need (letter from bank etc.) have a read through the steps here https://www.thaiembassy.com/retire/retire.php.

 

3 hours ago, Mai mee said:

Also is the concession process pretty much a sure thing or is it uncertain in any way and needing an agent or "cooperation" of the Thai immigration officials?

 

As long as you confirm the requirements and turn up with the correct paperwork should be a breeze. Keep an eye out on here for any particular foibles with the office in question.

[Salerno]

 

6 minutes ago, Mai mee said:

I haven't had a single booking since I left Patong in March... Not one baht... seems to me, I might as well be occupying my own condo because I'm sure not getting any income from it right now.

 

Sad to hear. on the bright side, you can look  forward to waking up to that stunning view soon(ish).

[Mai mee]

By the way,  nice google-<deleted> Salerno. It would appear my property manager has listed the apartment on some other sites. I like the way D.V. Phuket Properties has splashed THEIR logo and Claim across the photos I took of MY apartment, and provided to MY rental manager.... Oh well, I'll deal with all that when I get back. First things first. I need a visa, and a COE, and a long stay extension because the property is OFF the rental market.

 

Sorry to clog the thread with real estate stuff that wasn't my intention...

 

I'm just looking for the quickest surest path to a return and a long stay visa because I'm desperately needing to get out of the US and make my return to the LOS permanent. I know there's a wealth of experience about these matters here on these forums. Thanks for the replies.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Mai mee

[Mai mee]

Thanks for the link Salerno ???? What I've been trying to get a grip on, for some time now, relates to the process at Immigration.

 

Does one walk in to Immigration with a passport, photos, departure card, SETV etc. and apply for a Non-O visa which is then granted pretty much on the spot, AFTER WHICH one applies for an extension of stay based on retirement by providing the bank book, bank letter, etc. etc.    -OR-  does one walk in to Immigration with a passport, SETV, photos,  TM-6, bank book, proof of funds (and seasoning?) and any and all other required documents, and apply for a Non-Immigrant O visa with extension of stay based on retirement all in one fell swoop?

 

In other words, do I get a non-O first, and if so what kind of funding do i need to show for it? I want to be sure I understand the process fully so I can make absolutely certain I'll qualify, and that ANYTHING that I need to do before I leave the States is done and done properly. I feel as though I only have one shot at this, and I know that one little detail wrong can blow you out of the water in Thailand. It seems that most people are suggesting that the whole thing is no big deal but it's worrying the <deleted> out of me until I have the retirement extension stamped in my passport.

 

Thanks,

Gordo

[Dan O]

4 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You need to obtain a SETV.

After entry to Thailand you can then obtain a non O based on retirement at immigration.

The non O retirement can not be obtained in US.

Also the STV can not enable you to obtain non O at immigration office.

If you can afford it stick 800k in a Thai bank and leave it. Annual extensions walk in the park.

Be aware that for the non O application you will need to show that the 800k came from overseas.

Good luck.

Non O is available in the USA.   From the Thai Embassy in Washington DC: 

 

For Thailand long stay/retirement visa (O, O-A, and O-X) or who is currently holding re-entry permit for such visas (click here for more information) Update on November 18th

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Dan O

[Mai mee]

Yes it does seem to be (must have missed it when poring through the endless fine print on the Thai Embassy US website), but also it seems to require a 40/400k health insurance policy (no idea what that costs) in place when applying from the US, which doesn't seem necessary when applying from inside Thailand. I assume that's why everybody seems to be suggesting entering on a TR and applying in country?

 

Is there any advantage to arriving on the Non-O over arriving on the TR, both of which seem to allow the same 90 days to get your long stay in order?

 

More research to do...

[GrandPapillon]

13 hours ago, Mai mee said:

Just trying to get back home...

it won't be like before, everything is closed, no bars, empty street etc... it will be like being in the New Mexico desert ????

 

check the online webcams of all those places in Thailand, it's spooky with everything closed because there is nobody to serve

Edited December 13, 2020 by GrandPapillon

[BusyB]

13 hours ago, Salerno said:

Nice view (6370 THB/Per night a tadge above my normal budget).

 

Can see why you want to get back to it.

 

 

Wot!? No gym? ????

 

(Lovely place.)

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

check the online webcams of all those places in Thailand, it's spooky with everything closed because there is nobody to serve

Your not currently in Thailand are you. 

Right now I'm sitting in Morning Night bar Soi 4. It's busy and it's only Sunday arvo.

The biggest difference since Covid is yes many bars closed and less live music options however your comment re nobody to serve just means you don't know where to go both for farang and Thai places. Thailand is fantastic right now. 

[GrandPapillon]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Your not currently in Thailand are you. 

Right now I'm sitting in Morning Night bar Soi 4. It's busy and it's only Sunday arvo.

The biggest difference since Covid is yes many bars closed and less live music options however your comment re nobody to serve just means you don't know where to go both for farang and Thai places. Thailand is fantastic right now. 

I was referring to Patong in reply to the poster living there and the islands like KhoSamui mostly

 

Bangkok is quite busy I know, surprised they let MS open, yet I assume Nana is closed, and so is SC

[zzzzz]

14 hours ago, Mai mee said:

New Mexico, and we're QUITE locked down here now. It's cold here in the mountains, and I have to stand in a queue   in the snow to be allowed to enter the supermarket to buy food (Governors covid restrictions). At my home in Patong, I can walk out my front door and I'm 100 meters from the nicely quiet beach where I can eat a fresh coconut and restore my nice brown suntan. My balconies overlook the bay and the Andaman sea, and my lovely Tilac wants only to cook fresh food for me and make me happy.

 

I appreciate the concern but I keep in touch with my neighbors and friends there so I have a pretty good idea of how things stand on the ground right now. I'm not a tourist or a fresh new visitor, this has been my second home for 6 years. I speak passable basic Thai, and know which way is up... There is no question for me that being in Thailand, covid restrictions and all is far superior to my situation in the US right now.

FYI:
you CANNOT get a non O in the states.  Non O-A is, but .....lots of paperwork

 

U ready to do the $100,000 insurance, the pre flight covid test and 15 nights in a  Bangkok ASQ hotel?

You do realize that there is not much open in Patong>> drove down second road than up beach road today.  90% of everything closed except lots of 7/11's and massage shops.

 

Big C in JC is open thou

 

Get the single entry visa ( valid for 60 day entry), put ur 800,000 inn the bank and convert to non O 90 day than convert to 1 year extension
Do you register yourself for the tm30?

 

FYI:
it's lovely in phuket without the taxi's, tuk tuk, mini vans and large tour bus's on the road!!

Beaches are empty an lovely without the hundreds of loungers and umbrellas at 2 pm there was hardly anyone on Patong beach today
they have been doing seafood festivals on the beach sidewalk and that might continue to try and attract some people 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by zzzzz

[Dan O]

3 hours ago, zzzzz said:

FYI:
you CANNOT get a non O in the states.  Non O-A is, but .....lots of paperwork

 

 

 

Why do you say you can't get Non O in USA    it is clearly listed as available along with the STV,  Single Entry TR, Non O, Non O-A and Non O-X. All have with criteria for applying on the Thai Embassy Website in Washington DC. Link was already posted above and again below. . You may want to check the website so people get correct info. 

 

>> For Thailand long stay/retirement visa (O, O-A, and O-X) or who is currently holding re-entry permit for such visas (click here for more information) Update on November 18th

>> For Conducting business/Meeting or Investing/Saving in Thailand with no less than $100,000 (or 3 million baht) (click here for more information)

>> For Tourism purposes (Tourist visa TR – single entry only and Special Tourist visa -STV)  (click here for more information) Update on December 10th

Persons under 2 – 8 must apply for a Certificate of Entry (COE) at the Royal Thai Embassy/Royal Thai Consulates-General and obtain a visa (if they do not already have one) at least 15 working days before the intended date of travel.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Dan O

[Elkski]

Sounds like a great plan G except you left off the S.

Tilac'S want to cook me great food.  

[DrJack54]

39 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Why do you say you can't get Non O in USA    it is clearly listed as available along with the STV,  Single Entry TR, Non O, Non O-A and Non O-X. All have with criteria for applying on the Thai Embassy

I let your first post go through to the keeper.

Non O based on retirement is not available in USA along with many countries.

The non O based on marriage is a different fish.

[Dan O]

16 hours ago, Mai mee said:

 

 

Does one walk in to Immigration with a passport, photos, departure card, SETV etc. and apply for a Non-O visa which is then granted pretty much on the spot, AFTER WHICH one applies for an extension of stay based on retirement by providing the bank book, bank letter, etc. etc.    -OR-  does one walk in to Immigration with a passport, SETV, photos,  TM-6, bank book, proof of funds (and seasoning?) and any and all other required documents, and apply for a Non-Immigrant O visa with extension of stay based on retirement all in one fell swoop?

 

In other words, do I get a non-O first, and if so what kind of funding do i need to show for it? I want to be sure I understand the process fully so I can make absolutely certain I'll qualify, and that ANYTHING that I need to do before I leave the States is done and done properly. I feel as though I only have one shot at this, and I know that one little detail wrong can blow you out of the water in Thailand. It seems that most people are suggesting that the whole thing is no big deal but it's worrying the <deleted> out of me until I have the retirement extension stamped in my passport.

 

Thanks,

Gordo

Gordo,

 

Everything is done on line or in the mail, no in person visits. 

 

Peter Denis has a breakdown sheet for the pros and cons of TR vs Non O, Non O-A etc. that can be helpful. It has info on insurance also.  If you shoot him a message he'll send it to you, 

I'm in the same boat as I live In the USA right outside Washington DC and am preparing to return to Thailand mid January. 

[Dan O]

10 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I let your first post go through to the keeper.

Non O based on retirement is not available in USA along with many countries.

The non O based on marriage is a different fish.

DrJack54,   

 

 It absolutely is listed as available since November, check the site and you'll clear see that it is. 

 

In the past Pre Covid times maybe it wasnt but is listed now. Check for yourself.  Can you show me something that shows it isn't???????

 

 

 

 

Visa and Certificate of Entry for Non-Thai nationals who wish to obtain a retirement visa or a long-stay visa
(Non-Immigrant Category O (retirement) / O-A / O-X) or who is currently holding re-entry permit for such visas

Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O” (retirement)

Purpose of Visit: This type of visa may be issued to applicants aged 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 90 days without the intention of working. Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 90 days. Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited.

Eligibility:
1. Applicant must be aged 50 years and over (on the day of submitting application)
2. Applicant not prohibited from entering the Kingdom as provided by the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979)
3. Having the nationality of or residence in the country where applicant’s application is submitted
4. Applicant must have a Thai health insurance for the duration of stay, with coverage for outpatient treatment of no less than 40,000 baht and inpatient treatment of no less than 400,000 baht

Edited December 13, 2020 by Dan O

[DrJack54]

8 minutes ago, Dan O said:

DrJack54,   

 

 It absolutely is listed as available since November, check the site and you'll clear see that it is.  

 

 

 

Visa and Certificate of Entry for Non-Thai nationals who wish to obtain a retirement visa or a long-stay visa
(Non-Immigrant Category O (retirement) / O-A / O-X) or who is currently holding re-entry permit for such visas

Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O” (retirement)

Purpose of Visit: This type of visa may be issued to applicants aged 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 90 days without the intention of working. Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 90 days. Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited.

Eligibility:
1. Applicant must be aged 50 years and over (on the day of submitting application)
2. Applicant not prohibited from entering the Kingdom as provided by the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979)
3. Having the nationality of or residence in the country where applicant’s application is submitted
4. Applicant must have a Thai health insurance for the duration of stay, with coverage for outpatient treatment of no less than 40,000 baht and inpatient treatment of no less than 400,000 baht

@ubonjoe

Can you give definitive advice re availability of obtaining a Non O (based on retirement) in USA.

Ta

[Mai mee]

6 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

it won't be like before, everything is closed, no bars, empty street etc... it will be like being in the New Mexico desert ????

 

check the online webcams of all those places in Thailand, it's spooky with everything closed because there is nobody to serve

Things are slow... AWESOME... It's ok I'm not here  for the all night drinking and mongering, been there done that all a long time ago. I've come to like Patong best in the low season now, slower and quieter is better. I don't go out to the go-gos and beer bars except to meet a friend, haven't had a drink myself in 30 years (naam soda for me). Instead I like to go to the thalaad with gf as she picks out all the little bits she needs for cooking while teaching me the proper Thai names for everything and the little differences in things I'd never see on my own.... then maybe over to the Big C to  pick up a couple of bottles of one of xylophone's wine picks because Tilac likes a glass of red wine to relax in the evenings and has remarkably good taste in wine as ar as i can tell despite not having been raised on it. 

 

Mornings find me on the balcony before dawn, sipping coffee and enjoying the quiet as the birds awaken and begin to call, no hangovers and blackout curtains for me thank you. Tilac is in the kitchen preparing fresh fruits, and her own coffee (she prefers Nescafe ????).... Up to you...  we like to feed a few of the birds who have learned how to visit the "high country" they feel like friends and show up an hour or so after sunrise.

 

So I guess if the all night blaring bars and discos aren't pumping, It'll be ok...

 

Thanks