Koh Samui: Holiday island is in a "coma" on its last tourism legs

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

And that represents major discounting. Prior to covid it was 4,000 to 5,000 each way! They cannot fill the planes now, so a minor degree of humility and common sense has set in. The BA monopoly is a scourge on the land. 

Most people seems to forget that there were no airport on the island, or any plana for building one, before Bangkok Airways made Samui Airport for their own money. Making direct Bangkok-flights available from the end of the 1980s made Samui's tourism grow.

 

In fact, Bangkok Airways is the reason for island's successful tourism business and numerous high end resorts, which even might fit well into the governments wishes for "quality tourists"...????

 

Furthermore, before Covid-19 hit the World, and especially travel and tourism industries, there were no problems filling the planes in high seasons. Over the last decade both larger aircrafts, and more departures, were needed to comply with the demand from increasing number of passengers. Bangkok Airways has not been a tourism inflow stopper, but the opposite, and so has the private international airport with a number of other airline operators, and direct flights from abroad, including charter tourism.

 

Anyone can come cheap to the islands, both Samui and neighboring Phangan, just like they could before direct flights to Samui became available, simply by using train or bus, and ferry. Over the years the ferries have expanded their service, including faster catamaran ferries, and furthermore cheap budget flights to both Surat Thani and Nakhon Si Thammarat became available with bus and express ferry link to Samui, and ferries to Phangan, and there recently opened a new 45 minutes link direct from Nakhon Si Thammarat to southern Samui.

 

Those that don't wish to pay the fare for using the direct air service, don't need to, they can still come cheap to Samui, just like before the airport was build – a 2nd class sleeper-train ticket from Bankok, including bus and ferry transfer, is still below 1,000 baht, and an express VIP-bus is around 1,200 baht – and there are still numerous affordable accommodation available. However the original next-to-nothing baht a day bamboo huts have gone, simply because folks over time wanted better quality, but you can still find 300 baht – actually 299 baht – to 400 baht accommodation close to a beach, and you can get to those affordable places by song thaew from the pier in Nathon for less than 100 baht, or just walk across the street and book into a hotel in Nathon for 400 baht a night. Street kitchens still serve food from around 50 baht for a delicious meal, including free drinking water, and local Thai restaurants have excellent dishes from 80 to little over 100 baht; so even a Cheap Charlie can afford Samui, if he so wish...????

[josephbloggs]

19 hours ago, gearbox said:

Do you think the Thais themselves are happy to pay 5k+ for a return ticket to Samui? The government for some reason is unable to sort this out, hopefully in the current conditions it won't be long before BA goes belly up.

Imagine the outcry on TVF (and elsewhere) is the government started meddling in private enterprise and telling people what they could charge.

 

Also love the generosity of so many posters here who - having invested millions of dollars to build an airport - would set their prices much lower than people are willing to pay just because people on TVF think they should be cheaper.  What marvellous souls.

Is it expensive?  Compared to other destinations in Thailand, yes.  Do I cry about it when I want to go there?  No, I just pay it.  Or you can take the first or the last flight at a large discount.  Or you can choose to fly to Surat Thani and then get a ferry if you don't care about your time and want to save a few baht.  Let's face it, BA bought the land, they invested and built the airport, they run and maintain the airport (and a lovely airport it is too), they have the right to charge what they think people will pay to fly to that airport.  It is how private enterprise works.  Yet people want the government to interfere in that.  Imagine if they told your business what you could charge.

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, samuiwonder said:

I doubt that, due to it’s Low Covid infection rate, that Thailand will

get any vaccine shipments for a long while.   So I doubt that recovery is anywhere near.  
Does anyone want to take the Chinese or Russian vaccines?

The news articles mentioned that domestic Thai vaccinations will begin in May 2021.

[Jeffr2]

38 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Traffic is fine of late due to the lack tourists wobbling about on chicken-chasers, furthermore Tesco can still be reached in >15 mins whereas usually at this time of year it takes more than an hour.

Chicken chasers.  Love it. 555555

 

We were there a few months ago.  And LOVED it.  Sad for those who don't have jobs.  Great for some of us.  Excellent prices on hotels, little traffic, and still many restaurants open.  Plenty of choice.  We hope to be back soon!

[from the home of CC]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I respectfully disagree. With proper testing on both ends, the risk is low. Hawaii is doing that right now, and the uptick in covid is minimal. Fear is the great equalizer. Easy for you to say how strong Thailand will be at the end of all of this. A year from now, what will the tourism industry look like? What about those three trillion baht annually? What about the trillions of dollars in tourism infrastructure? The 4% occupancy rates? The millions out of work? The only people talking like that, are the ones with a cushy pension, or investments, which provide a good living. For the millions who do not have that safety net? What that heck. Just let them go.

 

So far, the state’s system requiring visitors to get tested in advance—or face 14 days in a hotel room—has worked well, said Sumner La Croix, a research fellow with the University of Hawaii Economic Research Organization. Hawaii tightened its rules this week so visitors must have proof of a negative test result by the time they land in Hawaii. Those who don’t will need to quarantine for 14 days or the full length of their trip, whichever is shorter, even if a negative test result becomes available after their arrival.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hawaii-wants-to-lure-visitorsbut-keep-out-covid-19to-revive-its-economy-11606392000

there's just been too many false positives with testing to rely solely on that (and the reason you're tested 3 times here during quarantine). The US has spent billions on testing (as well as most of the EU and the UK) and the country is in the toilet. You want to base your arguments on a few islands in the middle of the Pacific? Thankfully Thailand is looking at all this with a much clearer head than most westerners. This country would be totally devastated by a covid rate like the western world. The economy is definitely slower than prior to covid but the need for the endless doling of free food to hundreds of thousands (as what is happening in America) is not required here. Because the majority of daily business still continues, unheeded by endless lockdowns and restarts. Your right, there's not a lot of the 'easy money' from foreigners floating around but the Thais will survive, their 50/50 programs make a huge difference. Thais are adaptable and will survive this fine, westerners  - not so much..

[spidermike007]

40 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Most people seems to forget that there were no airport on the island, or any plana for building one, before Bangkok Airways made Samui Airport for their own money. Making direct Bangkok-flights available from the end of the 1980s made Samui's tourism grow.

 

In fact, Bangkok Airways is the reason for island's successful tourism business and numerous high end resorts, which even might fit well into the governments wishes for "quality tourists"...????

 

Furthermore, before Covid-19 hit the World, and especially travel and tourism industries, there were no problems filling the planes in high seasons. Over the last decade both larger aircrafts, and more departures, were needed to comply with the demand from increasing number of passengers. Bangkok Airways has not been a tourism inflow stopper, but the opposite, and so has the private international airport with a number of other airline operators, and direct flights from abroad, including charter tourism.

 

Anyone can come cheap to the islands, both Samui and neighboring Phangan, just like they could before direct flights to Samui became available, simply by using train or bus, and ferry. Over the years the ferries have expanded their service, including faster catamaran ferries, and furthermore cheap budget flights to both Surat Thani and Nakhon Si Thammarat became available with bus and express ferry link to Samui, and ferries to Phangan, and there recently opened a new 45 minutes link direct from Nakhon Si Thammarat to southern Samui.

 

Those that don't wish to pay the fare for using the direct air service, don't need to, they can still come cheap to Samui, just like before the airport was build – a 2nd class sleeper-train ticket from Bankok, including bus and ferry transfer, is still below 1,000 baht, and an express VIP-bus is around 1,200 baht – and there are still numerous affordable accommodation available. However the original next-to-nothing baht a day bamboo huts have gone, simply because folks over time wanted better quality, but you can still find 300 baht – actually 299 baht – to 400 baht accommodation close to a beach, and you can get to those affordable places by song thaew from the pier in Nathon for less than 100 baht, or just walk across the street and book into a hotel in Nathon for 400 baht a night. Street kitchens still serve food from around 50 baht for a delicious meal, including free drinking water, and local Thai restaurants have excellent dishes from 80 to little over 100 baht; so even a Cheap Charlie can afford Samui, if he so wish...????

Had the government had some vision at the time, it should have been expressed to BA that this is a 20 year concession. Take it, or leave it. But alot of cash exchanged hands, no doubt. 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Dialemco said:

Don't forget BA built the Airport in Koh Samui. They are providing a good reliable service without profit. The coming problem with Koh Samui is the pollution caused by to many cars and to many tourists now is the time to restructure and tax the fat cats who have the lions share of money generated by tourism they have big houses and host hugh wedding parties 

Without profit? Did I read that correctly? By air, it is under 300 km from Samui to Swampy. That makes it one of the priciest flights in the world. Especially before Covid, when it was 8,000 to 10,000 baht round trip. It is one of their most profitable routes. 

[Nout]

Mass tourism and the airport made KS unbearabl. We originallywent there for serenity, peace and quiet, unspoilt beaches and lack of people. Even by 1990 it was becoming over developed. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY. The mainlanders and the mainland police started to influence the place. Hopefully, soon it will return to being a beautiful natural area instead of an Asian Benidorm.

[ukrules]

23 hours ago, Mung said:

Also, how did the Chinese obtain the the genetic sequence of the virus as early as February the 25th?

 

January 10 is the day it was announced by the Chinese, they did this after someone in Bangkok sequenced it from a patient there.

 

At this stage apparently nobody had died from it.

 

This is the origin logical.org/t/novel-2019-coronavirus-genome/319

[NobbyClarke]

This is the plan that will be regretful.

The Chinese will not save Thailand

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Imagine the outcry on TVF (and elsewhere) is the government started meddling in private enterprise and telling people what they could charge.

 

Also love the generosity of so many posters here who - having invested millions of dollars to build an airport - would set their prices much lower than people are willing to pay just because people on TVF think they should be cheaper.  What marvellous souls.

Is it expensive?  Compared to other destinations in Thailand, yes.  Do I cry about it when I want to go there?  No, I just pay it.  Or you can take the first or the last flight at a large discount.  Or you can choose to fly to Surat Thani and then get a ferry if you don't care about your time and want to save a few baht.  Let's face it, BA bought the land, they invested and built the airport, they run and maintain the airport (and a lovely airport it is too), they have the right to charge what they think people will pay to fly to that airport.  It is how private enterprise works.  Yet people want the government to interfere in that.  Imagine if they told your business what you could charge.

 

You are wrong here. The private enterprise rules usually don't apply 100% to the airports because they are natural monopolies. There are many airports in private hands (e.g. the Sydney Airport), which are heavily regulated. They are not businesses like 7-11, it is not in the public interest for example Samui to have 5 airports.

By government intervention I don't mean the government to just order BA what to do, however they and the public may have had enough and build a second airport. A second airport will crush BA, and is not really needed, lose-lose situation for everyone. 

As for myself I always use the Surat Thani airport, I like the ferry trip. I'm coming back to my place in Samui  early February - my  Bangkok to Surat Thani ticket with AA costs $3.9 (115 baht),  and yes, that's not a typo.

Edited December 19, 2020 by gearbox

[Changoverandout]

23 hours ago, evadgib said:

Maenam has one of the best beaches on the island.

Angela's (Soi 3 on the beach at moonhut bungalows) is great for dining & does an excellent Sunday Roast.

HTH

 

Looking forward to it and will try Angela’s. We’re staying at Coco Palm Beach Resort which looks good and has very good reviews.

[josephbloggs]

56 minutes ago, gearbox said:

 

You are wrong here. The private enterprise rules usually don't apply 100% to the airports because they are natural monopolies. There are many airports in private hands (e.g. the Sydney Airport), which are heavily regulated. They are not businesses like 7-11, it is not in the public interest for example Samui to have 5 airports.

By government intervention I don't mean the government to just order BA what to do, however they and the public may have had enough and build a second airport. A second airport will crush BA, and is not really needed, lose-lose situation for everyone. 

As for myself I always use the Surat Thani airport, I like the ferry trip. I'm coming back to my place in Samui  early February - my  Bangkok to Surat Thani ticket with AA costs $3.9 (115 baht),  and yes, that's not a typo.

I see the point you are trying to make but disagree.  Sydney Airport was government owned until it was sold so strict and stringent regulations were already in place. There are many other privately owned airports - Heathrow, Gatwick and many British airports for example - but again they were government owned and sold to private companies by the government and again regulations were in place.  But even then your argument falls down because the Spanish company that owned seven British airports was raising fees as they had a virtual monopoly and it became a big thing.  They could raise fees at, say, Heathrow as a private company - nothing to stop them.  But because they also owned Gatwick, Stansted and several other airports this was deemed unfair and the Competition Commission eventually forced them to sell three of them.  It was deemed unfair competition because an airline could not choose an alternative airport and take their business elsewhere as those airports were also owned by the same company - that is not the case with Samui.

That is all very different from a private company building an airfield where none exists, on private land, and then flying its own planes in and out and charging for the ride.   

Edited December 19, 2020 by josephbloggs

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Without profit? Did I read that correctly? By air, it is under 300 km from Samui to Swampy. That makes it one of the priciest flights in the world. Especially before Covid, when it was 8,000 to 10,000 baht round trip. It is one of their most profitable routes. 

Not really, it's 472 kilometers in straight line – which you can easily measure on Google Maps instead of guessing, but you might have thought of some kind of miles instead of kilometers – however aircrafts don't fly in a straight line, all depending of take off runway in use and landing round, the actual flown distance is closer to 600 kilometers.

 

The airfare price includes airport tax and fees. Only people that fly to Samui pays for the airport construction and maintenance, and all Jet fuel is transported in by truck and ferry, which makes the fuel a little bit more expensive, just like diesel and gasoline for cars are some 3-4 baht (or more) expensive per liter on the mainland.

 

If I compare to a for me well know distance, it's like flying from Copenhagen to Stockholm, and that costs in average, with a normal air carrier, around 1,000 Danish kroner one way, which equals about 5,000 baht, but both airports are major, originally government founded, and with a huge amount of operations to pay for them. You can find budget prices on less attractive departures, and so you also can, or rather could before the Covid-19 closedown, when flying to Samui, using for example the early bird flight in the mornings and a "web-saver" ticket, which often ended up with a price between 2,500 baht and 3,500 baht depending of week day, same conditions applied for the last night flight...????

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

You are wrong here. The private enterprise rules usually don't apply 100% to the airports because they are natural monopolies. There are many airports in private hands (e.g. the Sydney Airport), which are heavily regulated. They are not businesses like 7-11, it is not in the public interest for example Samui to have 5 airports.

By government intervention I don't mean the government to just order BA what to do, however they and the public may have had enough and build a second airport. A second airport will crush BA, and is not really needed, lose-lose situation for everyone. 

In the 1980s there were no public infrastructure demand for an airport on Samui, or Phangan, which would have costed the tax payers a lot of money. And if charging fees in same level as other public airports – some were initially build for military use, so not being paid for by commercial flights – the bill for the local tax payers would have been high, just for the maintenance and operation costs. The majority of voters, and tax payers at that time, were on the mainland, so no sensible politician would suggest spending his voters' money on a small island, when the province already had an airport. Therefore Bangkok Airways could get the permission to build a private airport, but with restricted operations due to the airport is placed under a flight corridor; for many years limited to 36 operation a day, later raised to 50 operations, due to increased demand for flights.

 

The dream of a second airport on Samui is an impossible dream, as there shall be a minimum distance between two airports, and the island is simply too small for that. It's excellent stories in the news media, but could never be a reality without closing the already established airport.

 

Furthermore – and bring in mind all those many posters complaining about Samui being spoiled by over-construction, and over-population, and way too many tourists – would the island be able to handle more tourists than are already coming..?

[brain150]

Will be interesting to hear all the guys talking how good Samui is doing right now in 6 months from now.

 

Samui is free falling ! Anybody who does not want to see this is just delusional !!!

We have not seen anything yet in terms of how bad this will get ... not in a long shot !

It will be visible pretty soon - mark my words !

[Tropicalevo]

21 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Don't forget BA built the Airport in Koh Samui. They are providing a good reliable service without profit.

Bangkok Airways funded the airport.

The government funded nothing and did not care about Samui.

Prior to Covid, there were at least seven (or maybe nine) other airlines flying into Samui.

There have been other airlines flying into Samui since at least 2005 (Berjaya Air).

Firefly started about 2006/7

THAI were also flying here daily.

Most airlines stopped flying because of low number of customers, or in the case of Firefly and THAI - went to codeshare instead.

Some monopoly.

[spidermike007]

On 12/18/2020 at 1:13 PM, Changoverandout said:

 

I hope so, my wife and I are going t Mae Nam next month.

First time to Samui.

 

As we don’t particularly like crowds of tourists it should be fine as long as some restaurants are open.

Maenam and that area are fine. Was there a couple of months ago. Plenty of places open. Beaches are quiet. Alot less traffic. Chaweng is devastated. Lamai was hit hard. Alot of closed bars, shops, restaurants and hotels. The island in general is suffering, but you will have a nice trip. You will not really know the difference, other than many closed bars, hotels, and massage shops. 

[bristolgeoff]

If you go down to the islands it was always expensive for hotels taxis and whatever else u did.i never bothered to spend long time in the islands always expensive and a lot of other places you can visit which are cheaper and just as good

[thaibook]

On 12/17/2020 at 7:32 PM, Jeffr2 said:

Right, they planned everything.  Jeez....stunning some think this.

 

Samui, like a lot of Thailand, priced itself out of the tourist market for many.  Crazy to see rooms going for $150 and up, that are right next to empty lots with trash, down roads that are falling apart, on beaches with encroachment, etc. 

 

What do you expect?

 

I have an investment in a hostel in Liverpool.  Before rooms were for 2-6 now we have 1 per room and a price per night 40% of previous lowest price per person (60% discount per person so massive discount per room).  Fewer staff of course but we have managed to keep some staff and to cover our costs.  What discount do Samui hotels offer?

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, thaibook said:

 

I have an investment in a hostel in Liverpool.  Before rooms were for 2-6 now we have 1 per room and a price per night 40% of previous lowest price per person (60% discount per person so massive discount per room).  Fewer staff of course but we have managed to keep some staff and to cover our costs.  What discount do Samui hotels offer?

We found discounts vary widely depending on the hotel.  Some will negotiate heavily with walk-ins.  Others stick to what's on the booking websites.  Most would give better discounts if you stayed 5+ nights.

 

Some, we found online, and when visiting them in person, found out they were already closed!

 

But the average discount we found, in August, was 75%.

[thaibook]

thank you, so they are taking a realistic approach.  Good to hear.

 

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, thaibook said:

thank you, so they are taking a realistic approach.  Good to hear.

 

Good for those of us who can take advantage of this, sad for the thousands who are out of jobs.  And I think more closing will be coming soon, especially with this "second" wave we're experiencing.  From what I can tell, the Thais are super nervous now and probably won't be traveling much now.

 

[KarenBravo]

On 12/19/2020 at 1:22 PM, Magenta408 said:

Greed is still rampant from quarantine to the costs of local flights, cost of hotels which are still open and all the other costs in the fine print. Until this government realizes it has to be a logical in their management. I'm not paying $3,000 to quarantine when there is NO need for this.

 

Hmmmm.......should I believe you, or, the many health professionals that don't agree with you?

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

Hmmmm.......should I believe you, or, the many health professionals that don't agree with you?

Although I don't agree with you, your post is 'spot on' that this all about BELIEF as much-needed common sense and independent critical thinking based on facts and data, has gone out of the window.

[KarenBravo]

1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

Although I don't agree with you, your post is 'spot on' that this all about BELIEF as much-needed common sense and independent critical thinking based on facts and data, has gone out of the window.

If you aren't already a medical professional, then the "facts and data" you mention will not be able to be fully understood by you, nor the ramifications of said data.

Bit like getting a plumber to fix an electric problem. You are just not qualified to make any real meaningful statement on the subject and neither am I, which is why I only listen to qualified people.

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

If you aren't already a medical professional, then the "facts and data" you mention will not be able to be fully understood by you, nor the ramifications of said data.

Bit like getting a plumber to fix an electric problem. You are just not qualified to make any real meaningful statement on the subject and neither am I, which is why I only listen to qualified people.

Many of those qualified people do not agree with each other and/or have an agenda.

The problem is exacerbated by the media not allowing and blocking any critical voices that go against the common narrative. 

There is no simple solution to this, but applying common sense and a critical look on the facts/data that you are fed (no matter from which side) is already a start.

[baansgr]

On 12/18/2020 at 10:19 AM, philthebook said:

Coco Tams which is one of the most expensive beach bars (250 baht + for a cocktail) was packed last weekend, they were turning people away at 18:30. 

 

 

Looks all Thais, long weekend, why were they turning people away, I count 32 and plenty room off the beach...go take a look tonight and get a pic

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Looks all Thais, long weekend, why were they turning people away, I count 32 and plenty room off the beach...go take a look tonight and get a pic

Lots of foreigners there also, last time I went.  No long weekend, just a normal one in August.  It was also packed and no tables available, just a long waiting line.

[Tropicalevo]

45 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Lots of foreigners there also, last time I went.  No long weekend, just a normal one in August.  It was also packed and no tables available, just a long waiting line.

It has been like that at Coco Tams almost every night since people started travelling again.

I ask all of the groups that I check in 'Where do you plan to go whilst on Samui?'

Every Thai group replies 'Coco Tams'. The majority then also say 'Pig island'.