MSG in food - really nothing to worry about

[rwill]

MSG is up there with religion and politics as far as things to discuss.  

 

Thing is MSG has half the sodium of salt.  Mono = 1.

[from the home of CC]

On 12/20/2020 at 10:15 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

MSG is banned in many kitchens in high class restaurants because there are too many people who have bad reactions to MSG.

not sure about that, I've read many renown chefs use it but perhaps don't advertise that fact. 

Myth: MSG causes allergic reactions.

Fact: Glutamate is among the most common amino acids (building blocks of protein in our food and bodies) in nature. It is a natural flavor enhancer, and is prevalent in foods like mushrooms, parmesan cheese, and tomatoes. The glutamate in MSG seasoning and the glutamate in many foods we enjoy as part of our normal diets, like vegetables, cheese, fish and meat, is exactly the same and is treated by the body in exactly the same way no matter what the source. For this reason is it unlikely that people are sensitive to MSG.

Carefully designed research shows MSG does not cause allergic reactions. For example, a multicenter placebo-controlled study did not find any side effects when monosodium glutamate was given with food. Further, the American College of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology has stated that MSG is not an allergen.

 

 

[RocketDog]

8 minutes ago, rwill said:

MSG is up there with religion and politics as far as things to discuss.  

 

Thing is MSG has half the sodium of salt.  Mono = 1.

So salt, sodium chloride NaCl, has more than one sodium atom in the molecule? You're suggesting it's really Na2Cl? Or maybe Na2Cl2 which then splits in half? 

Either I'm badly confused or you are. 

[ronaldo0]

As far as I remember reading most foods naturally have some form of msg in low amounts in them . The problem with the powder they put in Thai food is they put far too much compared to what is actually needed for one meal and it can cause people to feel dizzy and nauseous. 

[OneMoreFarang]

25 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

On 12/20/2020 at 10:15 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

MSG is banned in many kitchens in high class restaurants because there are too many people who have bad reactions to MSG.

not sure about that, I've read many renown chefs use it but perhaps don't advertise that fact. 

Just ask in the restaurants.

[from the home of CC]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Just ask in the restaurants.

been using it for years myself, marketed as Accent in NA. Never had a reaction nor has anyone else eating what I cooked though I just use a pinch anyways. As it's found naturally occurring in many foods I'm not concerned..

[jirathama]

MSG is fo certain people very bad. People whos Brain-Blood Barrier is porous have bad side effects.

 

If i catch food with MSG i will be the next day in bed, not able to walk without pain, migraine and light sensitivity (Need a mask for the eyes). This goes normally for around 20 hours, until the MSG is out of my brain.

So, for some people it affects badly, others do not notice.  This does not happens if i get natural MSG through for example, Tomatoes, Cheese....., it is only the artifical MSG.

 

Here in Thailand many cooks use it, not even knowing they do. Best example is the the Can from KNORR. They sell their yellow Box (Can) as Aromat. It has 21% of E621 and a small amount of E635. Thats a booster for the MSG by approximately times 4. So in your Box you have roughly 80% MSG inside. This is very dangerous for above mentioned People.

In Europe they sell the same KNORR Box also without added MSG. I wonder, why not here in Thailand.

 

So, to say it is not harmful and all proven is unfortunately totally wrong.

[OneMoreFarang]

35 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

been using it for years myself, marketed as Accent in NA. Never had a reaction nor has anyone else eating what I cooked though I just use a pinch anyways. As it's found naturally occurring in many foods I'm not concerned..

As far as I am concerned you can eat it every day of your life.

But it seems lots of people are sensitive about MSG. Some more, some less. And to avoid any issues some restaurants decided to never use MSG. No MSG - no problem. I didn't hear anybody ever complained that they didn't use MSG.

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, rwill said:

Thing is MSG has half the sodium of salt.  Mono = 1.

 

Salt is sodium chloride whereas MSG is sodium glutamate, they are completely different chemicals when combined together.

 

Many people are confused between natural and synthetic glutamate too. Natural glutamate is safe to eat in moderate amount, synthetic glutamate is poisonous.

 

Is synthetic leather the same as real leather? Of course not.

Edited December 22, 2020 by EricTh

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

As far as I am concerned you can eat it every day of your life.

But it seems lots of people are sensitive about MSG. Some more, some less. And to avoid any issues some restaurants decided to never use MSG. No MSG - no problem. I didn't hear anybody ever complained that they didn't use MSG.

To add to that...I always ask for no MSG if I’m eating in a Thai Restaurant (mai sai pong chu rote).  I won’t eat at places with the pre-made trays of curries or anything else that isn’t cooked to order.  Of course, we can never be sure that the cook in a restaurant will cater to a persons request of not adding MSG but if someone isn’t sure of a place...well...they can eat at home or find a different restaurant to eat at.

 

Many people are concerned about MSG (myself included)....Many are not (as you can see in this thread)...

 

So....who’s responsibility is it for what goes in my mouth?  
 

Mine, and mine alone. Period.

 

Anti MSG zealots remind me of the Vegans/Vegitarians in California that rallied together and signed a petition demanding that In-N-Out burger add a “veggie burger” to their menu.

 

https://www.eater.com/2016/9/20/12990272/in-n-out-veggie-burger-petition

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Airalee

[Nout]

On 12/20/2020 at 9:24 PM, TimBKK said:

“I recently bought a food product that had a “no MSG” label on the front of it. This strikes me as an odd selling point—the sticker is front and center like a shiny gold star. I presume it’s meant to ensure safety and reassure the buyer. But for what? Do people really still believe that monosodium glutamate (MSG) is harmful? It turns out there is a widely held belief that MSG is bad for us...Yet all the research I’ve seen says otherwise. MSG is not a harmful substance. Further, The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) designated MSG as a Generally Recognized As Safe (GRAS) ingredient long ago in 1958. Despite requests over the years to remove the GRAS designation, the FDA kept it on the list given the available evidence. But the additive continues to be the subject of controversy, and many still question its safety.”

 

https://peterattiamd.com/should-we-still-be-worried-about-msg/
 

 

Indeed. Especially in moderate quantities I doubt MSG is a problem. I think the 'MSG allergy' myth can be traced to the 60s and is a form of hyprocondria.

[Paradise Pete]

2 hours ago, RocketDog said:

So salt, sodium chloride NaCl, has more than one sodium atom in the molecule? You're suggesting it's really Na2Cl? Or maybe Na2Cl2 which then splits in half? 

Either I'm badly confused or you are. 

 

They both are "mono", as you point out, but by weight you get a lot more sodium (more than 3x) in salt than MSG.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Paradise Pete

[sezze]

187.127 g/mol (monohydrate) for MSG  / vs 58,44 g/mol for NaCl . Both containing 1 Na atom at 23g/mol .

So let's say you take 10g MSG contains 1.22 g of Sodium , while for salt 10g will contain 3.9g of sodium . so more then 3 times the difference .

 

 

 

 

[PGSan]

On 12/21/2020 at 1:38 AM, pookondee said:

 

In many of our countries MSG use is banned, yet they allow it in corn chips and snacks and many other things, and no-one says zip about it.

 

Whose countries?   Who are they?  that allow banned substances?  An oxymoron, methinks. 

[sezze]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

 

 

Many people are confused between natural and synthetic glutamate too. Natural glutamate is safe to eat in moderate amount, synthetic glutamate is poisonous.

 

Is synthetic leather the same as real leather? Of course not.

Not at all the same comparison . Real leather does not have anywhere the same chemical formula like real leather . It "looks and feels" the same , but it does not mean it is the same since 1 is actually a type of plastic .

A more comparable version is kitchen salt vs sea salt . kitchen salt is made by combining Na and Cl , ( like NaOH+HCL-> NaCL + H2O ) . In this way the chemical formula is 100% the same like the salt in seasalt , NaCL . There is a difference since seasalt also contains other salts , like KCl , MgCL , NaI .... creating a slightly different taste and slightly less Na intake . However the chemical which we can salt is 100% the same .

Other version : vinegar . Vinegar is the kitchen name for acetic acid in roughly 4-7% solution . However is is made does not make any difference at all , since the vinegar formula is 100% the same CH3COOH . How it is made makes the flavour different since other elements are in it , but the basic substance is 100% the same .

 

You can eat or not eat , that is your choice . But you better start looking at some packaged food since E621is MSG and will be in many packaged food all around the world . MSG is not at all used in Asian kitchen alone , while maybe it is maybe used in the kitchen more , like i said , it is present in a lot ( most ) packaged food .

[PGSan]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

Natural glutamate is safe to eat in moderate amount, synthetic glutamate is poisonous.

How does the glutamate know where it came from?  And what does ‘natural’ mean?  Not spiritual? 

[PGSan]

24 minutes ago, sezze said:

187.127 g/mol (monohydrate) for MSG  / vs 58,44 g/mol for NaCl . Both containing 1 Na atom at 23g/mol .

So let's say you take 10g MSG contains 1.22 g of Sodium , while for salt 10g will contain 3.9g of sodium . so more then 3 times the difference .

 

 

 

 

But are the amounts typically used equal by weight?  What are the relative densities?

Edited December 22, 2020 by PGSan

[sezze]

11 minutes ago, PGSan said:

But are the amounts typically used equal by weight?  What are the relative densities?

1,62 g/cm³ for MSG vs 2,16 g/cm³ for NaCl . So a tablespoon of both will also contain 25% more in the case of NaCL .

[elgenon]

On 12/20/2020 at 6:24 AM, TimBKK said:

“I recently bought a food product that had a “no MSG” label on the front of it. This strikes me as an odd selling point—the sticker is front and center like a shiny gold star. I presume it’s meant to ensure safety and reassure the buyer. But for what? Do people really still believe that monosodium glutamate (MSG) is harmful? It turns out there is a widely held belief that MSG is bad for us...Yet all the research I’ve seen says otherwise. MSG is not a harmful substance. Further, The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) designated MSG as a Generally Recognized As Safe (GRAS) ingredient long ago in 1958. Despite requests over the years to remove the GRAS designation, the FDA kept it on the list given the available evidence. But the additive continues to be the subject of controversy, and many still question its safety.”

 

https://peterattiamd.com/should-we-still-be-worried-about-msg/
 

 

Unfortunately the FDA is heavily influenced by big business. Take advice with a grain of salt (not msg 555).

It is a cheap way to make less than great ingredients taste better, also older ingredients. Similar to putting salt on fish. 

And, as noted, some people have bad reactions to it. But, yes, it does enhanced flavors. I have gotten a buzz from it.

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, Nout said:

I think the 'MSG allergy' myth

Maybe you should read a couple of post in this thread. Then maybe you would start to understand that it isn't a myth.

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, Airalee said:

Of course, we can never be sure that the cook in a restaurant will cater to a persons request of not adding MSG but if someone isn’t sure of a place...well...they can eat at home or find a different restaurant to eat at.

Eating at home is obviously an option. But even there it's difficult to avoid MSG.

Some of Thai food ingredients contain MSG and it's difficult to see it in the small print.

And some Ingrediens (I think i.e. from Knorr) include MSG in Thailand but not in other countries.

Personally I don't have a huge problem with MSG if it is in moderate amounts. And it seems I get used to it. But if possible I try to avoid it. And I never had the moment that I thought some food would probably taste better by adding MSG.

[sezze]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe you should read a couple of post in this thread. Then maybe you would start to understand that it isn't a myth.

Still is a myth . So far , i never heard anybody with anaphylactic shock , and neither i ever saw anywhere something around there , which would happen if you are allergic . You might be more sensitive to it , and might get a headache , but since you didn't do a double blind test , this might be just the believe that you think it and then you get it ( power of the mind is really strong and yes it does work ) .  I not heard anybody say they had to go to hospital and hospital needed to perform something to get you back to normal persons .

I think i'm allergic to alcohol , since i'm drinking it now and i know i got a headache tomorrow , and even might feel miserable .

[sezze]

Just now, sezze said:

Still is a myth . So far , i never heard anybody with anaphylactic shock , and neither i ever saw anywhere something around there , which would happen if you are allergic . You might be more sensitive to it , and might get a headache , but since you didn't do a double blind test , this might be just the believe that you think it and then you get it ( power of the mind is really strong and yes it does work ) .  I not heard anybody say they had to go to hospital and hospital needed to perform something to get you back to normal persons .

I think i'm allergic to alcohol , since i'm drinking it now and i know i got a headache tomorrow , and even might feel miserable .

Oh and forgot : when a company packaged food can come in contact with peanuts or shrimps or anything like that , there is a warning sign , since people can have very bad ( death ) reactions to it . E621 is very normal in any kind of packaged food .

[hotchilli]

On 12/20/2020 at 9:55 PM, Airalee said:

I found that I have an allergic reaction to it if I eat it too much...so for me, it’s nice to have that warning.  I certainly wouldn’t want to see it banned because not everybody is as unfortunate as me and it sure makes the food taste better,

Good comment, MSG is just a food enhancer, i'd rather not have it and just have good tasting food?

My Thai wife say's don't eat it and at most vendor/restaurants she asks them not to add it.

[sezze]

1 minute ago, hotchilli said:

Good comment, MSG is just a food enhancer, i'd rather not have it and just have good tasting food?

My Thai wife say's don't eat it and at most vendor/restaurants she asks them not to add it.

Nothing wrong with that ... It is a taste enhancer , and if you do not like , up to you . I am not the 1 who says you eat this or you eat that . I only say that there is no proof at all that it is harmful so it is ok to use . You do not like it fine , some people like 20 chillies on their plate of food , while for me 3-4 is plenty . I do not like the fermented fish ( palar ) as it smells for me the same like baby milk puke . People like , upto them , same like MSG , but there is no proof whatsoever that is is harmful .

[Speedhump]

On 12/21/2020 at 12:15 AM, Meat Pie 47 said:

I am not to sure if it makes food taste good it is used to soften meat and maybe other stuff

It certainly is to add taste. In Chinese hotpot restaurants you'll see a bowl of it with the other condiments, to add some to your dipping bowl. 

[Speedhump]

8 minutes ago, sezze said:

Nothing wrong with that ... It is a taste enhancer , and if you do not like , up to you . I am not the 1 who says you eat this or you eat that . I only say that there is no proof at all that it is harmful so it is ok to use . You do not like it fine , some people like 20 chillies on their plate of food , while for me 3-4 is plenty . I do not like the fermented fish ( palar ) as it smells for me the same like baby milk puke . People like , upto them , same like MSG , but there is no proof whatsoever that is is harmful .

You're saying that severe allergy or sensitivity is not harmful? Products containing nuts should say so, same with any product containing allergens, or additives like MSG to which some people have extreme sensitivity with dangerous reactions. 

[hotchilli]

30 minutes ago, sezze said:

Nothing wrong with that ... It is a taste enhancer , and if you do not like , up to you . I am not the 1 who says you eat this or you eat that . I only say that there is no proof at all that it is harmful so it is ok to use . You do not like it fine , some people like 20 chillies on their plate of food , while for me 3-4 is plenty . I do not like the fermented fish ( palar ) as it smells for me the same like baby milk puke . People like , upto them , same like MSG , but there is no proof whatsoever that is is harmful .

So crack-on my friend, likewise... you want it you have it.

I just said I don't.

Freedom of speech.

[BTB1977]

MSG gives me migraines. I tracked my headaches over a month and where I eat that day. Found a pattern of restaurants that constantly gave me headaches every time I would eat there. So I asked if they use MSG . All did. So now I always request no MSG. One cook told me no MSG no taste good. I told her MSG no tip. I not come back. 

[EricTh]

16 hours ago, sezze said:

Not at all the same comparison . Real leather does not have anywhere the same chemical formula like real leather . It "looks and feels" the same , but it does not mean it is the same since 1 is actually a type of plastic .

A more comparable version is kitchen salt vs sea salt . kitchen salt is made by combining Na and Cl , ( like NaOH+HCL-> NaCL + H2O ) . In this way the chemical formula is 100% the same like the salt in seasalt , NaCL . There is a difference since seasalt also contains other salts , like KCl , MgCL , NaI .... creating a slightly different taste and slightly less Na intake . However the chemical which we can salt is 100% the same .

Other version : vinegar . Vinegar is the kitchen name for acetic acid in roughly 4-7% solution . However is is made does not make any difference at all , since the vinegar formula is 100% the same CH3COOH . How it is made makes the flavour different since other elements are in it , but the basic substance is 100% the same .

 

You can eat or not eat , that is your choice . But you better start looking at some packaged food since E621is MSG and will be in many packaged food all around the world . MSG is not at all used in Asian kitchen alone , while maybe it is maybe used in the kitchen more , like i said , it is present in a lot ( most ) packaged food .

 

yes, I do know that they sneakily hid MSG behind E621.