Defying Congress, Trump vetoes defense bill and threatens government shutdown

[Sudarut]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

No

I agree

[Jeffr2]

19 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

I was thinking about this the other day- Senators should be the same as Presidents- no more than two terms. One Senator has been in there 45 years, another  39 and McConnell 38, amongst others.

 

They need clearing out and have far too much behind the scenes power (and pork barrels). far too much partisan politics. Never mind who the President is a Senate and Congress should support them once they are elected . McConnell spent his entire time during the Obama administration scuttling him and he will be the same with Biden. He's an odious little man,

 

Same with Congress- have a look at the list there. One Congressman has been in his seat since 1975- its ludicrous and they have got rich off the back of it. 

Spot on!!!!  Changes to our political system are desperately needed.

[Mavideol]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

U.S. President Donald Trump vetoed a bipartisan defense policy bill

he's just looking for controversy... no credible comment on the cyber attacks and, please everybody,  make sure nobody makes a comment about Vlad

[Sudarut]

3 minutes ago, placnx said:

America's friends feel pity no doubt. Nixon's got to be the worst, since without him as president the US and the world would not have had to endure Trump, and Xi by the way!

America doesn't have any friends, it has the ability to destroy like no other.  Shock and Awe was the phrase that best describes it.

[ChouDoufu]

6 hours ago, sirineou said:

No one dislikes trump more than me. But they should not include things in a bill unrelated to that bill, and things like this would not happen,

  I have no opinion on of the issues objected by trump, such as renaming of facilities with confederate names,  fish breeding and funding for the Smithsonian museums, or litigation protection for social media, but all of these issues should be debated and stand along or fail  on their own merits. 

 

yet that is the way our democratic sausage is made.  that's how we can get 57 independently-run states to work together.

 

senator blowhard from the great state of texas will vote for this bit of social engineering, and senator swampgas from the republic of snowflakia will reciprocate by voting for that porky program.

 

 

[placnx]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

How many years is it now that predictions about the decline of the dollar due to "printing money" have been floated? 

It will not be by "printing money" that the US dollar will lose it's unique reserve status, rather it's the abuse particularly by the Trump administration of the dollar as a sanctions weapon that will cause other countries, even American friends to seek alternatives. That could be the Euro, though China wants the prestige and power gained by having the Yuan as a reserve currency. That would go along quite nicely with the Belt & Road campaign and make it difficult for the US to spot international corruption.

 

Anyway, as for increasing the one-time $600 to $2000 per person, it all depends on how eligibility is set. If it would benefit only those who are truly in need, that could be money created for a good purpose.

[placnx]

34 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

I was thinking about this the other day- Senators should be the same as Presidents- no more than two terms. One Senator has been in there 45 years, another  39 and McConnell 38, amongst others.

 

They need clearing out and have far too much behind the scenes power (and pork barrels). far too much partisan politics. Never mind who the President is a Senate and Congress should support them once they are elected . McConnell spent his entire time during the Obama administration scuttling him and he will be the same with Biden. He's an odious little man,

 

Same with Congress- have a look at the list there. One Congressman has been in his seat since 1975- its ludicrous and they have got rich off the back of it. 

Unfortunately the Senate sets its own rules and can change then by majority vote. It would be nice to have term limits for the position of the leader of the Senate majority, the position held by McConnell, who has been a big contributor to the polarization and dysfunction of the legislative branch.

 

McConnell was one of those hypocrites who changed their "rule" by which the party in power (under Obama) could not appoint a Supreme Court justice in a presidential election year. Actually that's not such a bad idea. What would be good is that nominations should be put up to a vote if the Senate majority and presidency are held by different parties. This would likely encourage the selection of moderate judges and help attenuate the polarization in the judiciary, which is truly a bad thing. 

[placnx]

38 minutes ago, Sudarut said:

I think because for every $1 printed a $1.20 (not exact mount)  is to be repaid.  So there is never enough and never will be enough money to repay the debt.  So it has to fail in the end, all fiat currencies do.  But you are correct about the predictions, who knows how long they can keep.

It is not a given that the dollar will "fail" anytime soon. There are many work-arounds to finesse the apparent over- borrowing. The main point is to maintain confidence in the dollar and not turn it into a Cinderella pumpkin with wanton use of currency sanctions.

[placeholder]

43 minutes ago, Sudarut said:

I agree

Sorry. That was posted inadvertntly. Paying $1.20 for a $1.00 loan doesn't mean that the lendee will someday run out of money. In fact, since the US can print money it won't happen. Moreover as long as the economy and/or taxes grow at a sufficiently rapid rate there's no reason why the debt obligations can't be met. 

[onthedarkside]

Several off topic and trolling posts have been removed.

 

[Walker88]

Repubs barked about 'defunding the police'.

 

45 has just defunded the US Military, all because he insists on honoring racist confederate traitors.

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Why are people only concerned when printing more money means a check for individuals, not when trillions are sent to banks, defense contractors, and airlines?

Not my money...I dont care!

[wwest5829]

8 hours ago, sirineou said:

No one dislikes trump more than me. But they should not include things in a bill unrelated to that bill, and things like this would not happen,

  I have no opinion on of the issues objected by trump, such as renaming of facilities with confederate names,  fish breeding and funding for the Smithsonian museums, or litigation protection for social media, but all of these issues should be debated and stand along or fail  on their own merits. 

I agree to, “clean bills” but also regonize that the current system relies on trade of votes to gain support to get legislation passed. Sad ...

[wwest5829]

5 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Pass the popcorn. Much to see and expect the implosion of the Rep Party. Kiss Georgia goodbye as Trump continue his scorch earth lunacy. Only help Joe looking extremely good in the midst of the chaos in the government, surging pandemic and people desperation. Another upside likely Trump is destroying his own brand. 

I figured the great irony is that Trump will indeed MAGA in reaction against his words, policies and actions...

[jvs]

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Although you are correct in that the bill is full of 'add-on' nonsense (aren't they all) the point is Trump has had AMPLE time to get both this bill and the stimulas bill sorted. To object at such a late stage smacks of petulance and self-interest.

You are so right,he had four years to sort things out but all was fine the previous years.

What has changed?He did not get reelected and  that is why he is trowing a temper trantum

just like the baby he is!

[Jonnapat]

Lost the election 7 weeks ago but still allowed to wreak havoc as President. 

This system beats me. 

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Lost the election 7 weeks ago but still allowed to wreak havoc as President. 

This system beats me. 

Ancient system due to difficult communication and infrastructure. Problem is that it is near impossible to modernise it.

[Eric Loh]

20 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Lost the election 7 weeks ago but still allowed to wreak havoc as President. 

This system beats me. 

Peaceful transition of power is the bedrock of democratic governments. A 2014 study concluded that 68 countries had never had a peaceful transition of power due to an election since 1788. Yes it is that rare and now USA is being dragged through the mud by Trump's refusal to concede.  

[Sujo]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Peaceful transition of power is the bedrock of democratic governments. A 2014 study concluded that 68 countries had never had a peaceful transition of power due to an election since 1788. Yes it is that rare and now USA is being dragged through the mud by Trump's refusal to concede.  

Not only refusing to accept the loss but burning down the house on his way out. Hes just decided to cause as much trouble as possible in between his golf shots.

[Sudarut]

3 hours ago, placnx said:

It is not a given that the dollar will "fail" anytime soon. There are many work-arounds to finesse the apparent over- borrowing. The main point is to maintain confidence in the dollar and not turn it into a Cinderella pumpkin with wanton use of currency sanctions.

never said it would fail any time soon, just that it will fail.  Negative interest rates is one tool they could use to delay the inevitable.

[Sudarut]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Sorry. That was posted inadvertntly. Paying $1.20 for a $1.00 loan doesn't mean that the lendee will someday run out of money. In fact, since the US can print money it won't happen. Moreover as long as the economy and/or taxes grow at a sufficiently rapid rate there's no reason why the debt obligations can't be met. 

You don't quite understand how the fiat currency in the US works.  The US can't print money, the Federal Reserve controls the money supply in the US, they don't actually do the printing but they do control how much and when it gets printed.  The Federal reserve board is unelected. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Sudarut

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, Sudarut said:

I think because for every $1 printed a $1.20 (not exact mount)  is to be repaid.  So there is never enough and never will be enough money to repay the debt.  So it has to fail in the end, all fiat currencies do.  But you are correct about the predictions, who knows how long they can keep.

Now here's something to consider....... if the government owns the money printing press and keeps churning out dollars, to whom is it owed?

 

Someone who "owns" the money machine can print as much as they like and in theory it need never get paid back, because what's the point.

 

The government can keep producing money as long as the other basics are intact and it (the debt) never needs to get called in, and can just be wiped off the books whenever necessary.

[Walker88]

The kids of 45's heartthrob now have the odd distinction of having one grand-dad pardon the other grand-dad.

 

Corruption runs strong in that extended family.

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I agree to, “clean bills” but also regonize that the current system relies on trade of votes to gain support to get legislation passed. Sad ...

Sure , compromise with in a bill, or a bit of "Quid  pro quo", such as I will vote for this  today if you will vote for my pet bill project tomorrow is and has been  part of politics   throughout human history, but I find something troubling in what I consider to be "Trojan Horse legislation "  where hidden within  a substantial bill of related matters  is unrelated Legislation  that could hurt us after we close the gates and go back to sleep.

No one will argue that Social Media is having a significant impact on our society and as such all thing regulation of ir should be taken seriously. , 

 I have no opinion on the merits of this  social media  liability protection legislation  because I know little about the particulars of it.

 Does it offer blanket liability protection? does it protect on some things where protection is needed , but allows liability on others where the public needs protection from social Media. One would think that a bill of such importance would be considered on it'[s own , vigorously debated, with adjustments made to protect towards unforeseen consequences.

 I am not taking trump's side in this issue. his request to scrap the legislation all together is just as agrigiouse.   trump  The litigator in chief, would like nothing more than to remove all protection so that he can run rough shot over social media via the threat of unlimited litigation, and use it as his personal propaganda vehicle. But just as trump is holding this bill hostage to get what he wants, I think those who put the social media litigation protection bill  in the defence appropriation bill , were doing a bit of the same by saying if you want  a defence appropriation bill you got to give us this social media bill also. 

  I understand the need of Omnibus legislation for expediency,  but IMO all things contain therein need to be related.  

Edited December 24, 2020 by sirineou
typo

[Tug]

4 hours ago, Jonnapat said:

Lost the election 7 weeks ago but still allowed to wreak havoc as President. 

This system beats me. 

We have never had to deal with a mentally ill president combined with a save your own skin cowardly senate before the tools are there to flush this abomination the senate is just to cowed to use it imo .on a side note the news isent talking about the horrific death toll from the mismanagement of the covid crisis nor are they talking about how our enemies are rummaging around in our security system so guess it works for donald ehh to bad it doesn’t work for the USA 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Sudarut said:

You don't quite understand how the fiat currency in the US works.  The US can't print money, the Federal Reserve controls the money supply in the US, they don't actually do the printing but they do control how much and when it gets printed.  The Federal reserve board is unelected. 

The Federal REserve board are unelected the same way the members of the Federal judiciary are. So, yes, the US can print money. Because the Federal Reserve is part of the USA system of governance. 

EDIT: Actually, members of the Fed are term limited whereas members of the Federal judiciary aren't. So they are more subject to the control of the executive and legislative branches.

Edited December 24, 2020 by placeholder

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, placnx said:

It will not be by "printing money" that the US dollar will lose it's unique reserve status, rather it's the abuse particularly by the Trump administration of the dollar as a sanctions weapon that will cause other countries, even American friends to seek alternatives. That could be the Euro, though China wants the prestige and power gained by having the Yuan as a reserve currency. That would go along quite nicely with the Belt & Road campaign and make it difficult for the US to spot international corruption.

 

Anyway, as for increasing the one-time $600 to $2000 per person, it all depends on how eligibility is set. If it would benefit only those who are truly in need, that could be money created for a good purpose.

I wish it were the case that the Euro could do it. But as the sanctions on Iran show, Europe couldn't come up with a workaround. As for the Chinese, their currency doesn't really float and their government is far too autocratic.

[Sudarut]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

The Federal REserve board are unelected the same way the members of the Federal judiciary are. So, yes, the US can print money. Because the Federal Reserve is part of the USA system of governance. 

EDIT: Actually, members of the Fed are term limited whereas members of the Federal judiciary aren't. So they are more subject to the control of the executive and legislative branches.

Yes exactly, both the monetary and law system is broken.  I blame trump and vaccines. 

[cmarshall]

22 hours ago, placnx said:

It is not a given that the dollar will "fail" anytime soon. There are many work-arounds to finesse the apparent over- borrowing. The main point is to maintain confidence in the dollar and not turn it into a Cinderella pumpkin with wanton use of currency sanctions.

 

This is the fantasy of those who don't understand national debt.  "Over-borrowing" in this context could only mean that the bond market loses sufficient confidence in the ability of the US to pay interest on its bonds to the point that it insists on higher rates of interest.  And yet the 30-year US Treasuries pay only about 1.66%.  That is nominal interest without any inflation adjustment.  Since it is highly unlikely that the cumulative inflation in the coming thirty years will be less that 1.66%, the US govt is going to make some money on the borrowing.  

 

While the strong dollar is a boon to those of us with assets in dollars and liabilities in baht, it is highly detrimental to the US economy.  Secy of Treasury Robert Rubin's "strong dollar" policy beginning in the 1990s is responsible for hollowing out the US manufacturing sector to the benefit of the investment industry.  The best policy for the US economy would be to devalue the dollar, although it would be hard cheese for us expats.

[placeholder]

13 hours ago, Sudarut said:

Yes exactly, both the monetary and law system is broken.  I blame trump and vaccines. 

But you claimed that the US can't print money.Which is nonsense. The Fed is as much a part of the US as is the Federal judiciary.