UK and EU reach Brexit trade deal

[tebee]

41 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Read the Lisbon Treaty and its effects.

 

https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2011/june/tradoc_147977.pdf

 

All trade agreements must be approved by  Parliament to be ratified.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon

 

And the Treaty of Rome.

 

https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/1886277.pdf

 

https://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/european-issues/0502-the-eu-s-trade-policy-and-new-challenges

 

So you could not trade outside the EU without the EU's permission. One of the major reasons and benefits for Brexit, so the UK can trade with other countries without asking for the EU's parliaments permission

But the ability to make your own trade deals is one of the things you lose by joining a customs union. You can't have one country applying a 20% tariff to wigits from Botswana and another applying a 2% tariff and then allowing tariff free trade between the two.

 

The benefits from all the trade deals you do have to be very great to outweigh the benefit you get from having paperwork free trade with your very large next door neighbour.

[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

But the ability to make your own trade deals is one of the things you lose by joining a customs union. You can't have one country applying a 20% tariff to wigits from Botswana and another applying a 2% tariff and then allowing tariff free trade between the two.

And that's why we have left it. The poster was continually saying that in the EU you could make trade deals with other countries which you could not as you had to get permission from the other EU countries, which as you highlight as an example never happens.

 

Leaving the EU gives the UK autonomy to make trade deals with other countries. I thought it was simple for everyone to understand but for some, clearly not

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I gave a source a few posts away that actually backs my claim and I'm not sure how you can back yours. 

 

Now I'm completely open to discuss this if you can give us something precise on my claim that albeit rights are reciprocal, consequences of exercising them for each party are not. 

 

Really 

 

. 

If you look at Article 9.1: Consultations page 212 you will see there is no upper hand by one side 

[Hi from France]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If you look at Article 9.1: Consultations page 212 you will see there is no upper hand by one side 

just give us the quote, thanks

 

60% of British GDP depends on the European Union, while for the European Union, dependence is much lower (less than 10% for all 27), the balance of power is very largely favorable to the EU in the event that the United Kingdom (for the moment) derogates from the rules

Edited December 26, 2020 by Hi from France

[Hi from France]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

And that's why we have left it. The poster was continually saying that in the EU you could make trade deals with other countries which you could not as you had to get permission from the other EU countries, which as you highlight as an example never happens.

 

Leaving the EU gives the UK autonomy to make trade deals with other countries. I thought it was simple for everyone to understand but for some, clearly not

I believe what we'd need to talk about there are rules of origin?

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

just give us the quote, thanks

 

60% of British GDP depends on the European Union, while for the European Union, dependence is much lower (less than 10% for all 27), the balance of power is very largely favorable to the EU in the event that the United Kingdom (for the moment) derogates from the rules

As i have stated I have given you the section and page number you need to read the document

[luckyluke]

5 hours ago, bartender100 said:

the most unpopular French President in recent times

 

He was voted in by a majority.

People aren't happy with him now.

If no amelioration, he won't do a second term.

Democracy.

 

[vinny41]

37 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

just give us the quote, thanks

 

60% of British GDP depends on the European Union, while for the European Union, dependence is much lower (less than 10% for all 27), the balance of power is very largely favorable to the EU in the event that the United Kingdom (for the moment) derogates from the rules

But the EU stated multiple times  that it wanted a Level Playing Field , If one party holds the balance of power due to its size it not a level playing field

[candide]

37 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

And that's why we have left it. The poster was continually saying that in the EU you could make trade deals with other countries which you could not as you had to get permission from the other EU countries, which as you highlight as an example never happens.

 

Leaving the EU gives the UK autonomy to make trade deals with other countries. I thought it was simple for everyone to understand but for some, clearly not

I think there was a confusion between "trade" and "make trade deals". Any country in the EU is allowed to trade with any other country, I.e. on WTO terms. However, it cannot make trade deals.

 

Having said that, the EU already has the largest network of trade deals, so there's not much advantage left in having the opportunity to make one's own deals (in addition to having a weaker negotiating power than the EU).

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, candide said:

I think there was a confusion between "trade" and "make trade deals". Any country in the EU is allowed to trade with any other country, I.e. on WTO terms. However, it cannot make trade deals.

I thought that was common sense but if you are being pedantic yes it can't make it's own trade deals which is what was being suggested.

 

2 minutes ago, candide said:

Having said that, the EU already has the largest network of trade deals, so there's not much advantage left in having the opportunity to make one's own deals (in addition to having a weaker negotiating power than the EU).

I guess you are a remainer. One of the main reasons for Brexit was for the UK to make its own trade deals with other countries as it could not in the EU. Its about being autonomous and in control of who you want to trade with. This  can't happen in the EU and I don;'t know why countless people going on about the EU and its biggest trading bloc.

 

What is the point of what we know. Are you trying to make some point that has been done to death on here over and over again. 

 

The UK has left the EU, so your point is irrelevant now.

[candide]

13 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

But the EU stated multiple times  that it wanted a Level Playing Field , If one party holds the balance of power due to its size it not a level playing field

That's why a level playing field agreement would not have been disadvantageous for UK. It would have been a guarantee to be treated in the same way as member states.

[candide]

6 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I thought that was common sense but if you are being pedantic yes it can't make it's own trade deals which is what was being suggested.

 

I guess you are a remainer. One of the main reasons for Brexit was for the UK to make its own trade deals with other countries as it could not in the EU. Its about being autonomous and in control of who you want to trade with. This  can't happen in the EU and I don;'t know why countless people going on about the EU and its biggest trading bloc.

 

What is the point of what we know. Are you trying to make some point that has been done to death on here over and over again. 

 

The UK has left the EU, so your point is irrelevant now.

Come back when UK makes a significant deal with a country which has not already a similar deal with the EU. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.

Edited December 27, 2020 by candide

[Laughing Gravy]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

Come back when UK makes a significant deal with a country which has not already a similar deal with the EU. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.

I guess your bitter. Never mind.

We have left the EU. My point is significantly relevant.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Laughing Gravy

[Chomper Higgot]

10 hours ago, kingdong said:

Perhaps because they could get away with paying you less than the going rate,like what happens (presently) in the uk.

Perhaps I should tell you what a full expat deal is. 

 

Better not though, it’s Christmas, good will to all men, and all that.

[bartender100]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Read the Lisbon Treaty and its effects.

 

https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2011/june/tradoc_147977.pdf

 

All trade agreements must be approved by  Parliament to be ratified.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon

 

And the Treaty of Rome.

 

https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/1886277.pdf

 

https://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/european-issues/0502-the-eu-s-trade-policy-and-new-challenges

 

So you could not trade outside the EU without the EU's permission. One of the major reasons and benefits for Brexit, so the UK can trade with other countries without asking for the EU's parliaments permission

Very true, 59 countries so far that UK has made trade deals with.

[luckyluke]

12 minutes ago, bartender100 said:

Very true, 59 countries so far that UK has made trade deals with.

 

It seems like some consider that as extraordinary.

 

I don't see any reason why countries wouldn't make a deal with the U.K., now they have left the E.U..

 

 

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

It seems like some consider that as extraordinary.

 

I don't see any reason why countries wouldn't make a deal with the U.K., now they have left the E.U..

 

 

 

It is probably to remind the remainers when they stated that it will take 7 years to complete a trade deal, it just proves that this is not the case.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

In other words UK could trade with other nations if EU agreements not already in-place, not as another member alleged, UK could not trade with any country outside of EU arrangements.

 

Is HMG 'free' of EU legislation? No...

 

Those who think the UK will be able to kiss goodbye to all ties with the EU and EU law after Brexit are mistaken. Yes, the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (EU(W)A) repeals the European Communities Act 1972 which gives effect to the principles of direct effect (enforceability) of EU law and supremacy of EU law. However, the EU(W)A also ensures that all EU law becomes part of UK law as ‘retained EU law’.

 

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/where-does-brexit-leave-uk-law/

 

Temporarily if necessary.

[Chomper Higgot]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

It is probably to remind the remainers when they stated that it will take 7 years to complete a trade deal, it just proves that this is not the case.

Which particular ‘Remainers’ states this, and if you find one that did does that indicate all Remainers held that view?

[Chomper Higgot]

28 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

It seems like some consider that as extraordinary.

 

I don't see any reason why countries wouldn't make a deal with the U.K., now they have left the E.U..

 

 

 

Or indeed why they should not use their bargaining power to the very best of their own advantage.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which particular ‘Remainers’ states this, and if you find one that did does that indicate all Remainers held that view?

Please show me where I stated all remainers. 

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported or removed.  

 

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Please show me where I stated all remainers. 

When I learned English, I was told that " the " ( the remainers ) was a all,

oppose to "some" : an unspecified amount.

I may have been taught wrongly.

[luckyluke]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

he UK is far more experienced and capable in terms of security than the EU.

Possible,

however I think this is a personal opinion,

not based on any data.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

It is probably to remind the remainers when they stated that it will take 7 years to complete a trade deal, it just proves that this is not the case.

What is “it” that proves that? To my knowledge (I may be wrong) the UK hasn’t negotiated many (any?) own trade deals so far but mostly (only?) rolled over existing EU trade deals. That’s the sensible thing to do (as I wrote before) but it’s hardly proof for how long it takes to negotiate a trade deal when someone else negotiated it for you and it isn’t tailored to your economy. 

 

 
 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

To my knowledge (I may be wrong) the UK hasn’t negotiated many (any?) own trade deals

 

If it is however the case, It will be interesting to know with which major country the U.K. has signed a deal, country which hadn't previously a deal with the E.U..

 

[david555]

( Here he comes again " treaty breaker man "...now his intention's comes clear ....He only wanted to beat Santa in popularity on Christmas.....????Ego man...

 

E.U.....just veto it and stuff him his no deal ???? )

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1377029/Brexit-news-Boris-Johnson-EU-free-trade-agreement-Brussels-economy-WTO-ont

Brussels warning: Boris Johnson ready to ‘rip up’ Brexit deal if EU interferes on trade

BORIS JOHNSON has warned the EU he will rip up the Brexit trade agreement if Brussels attempts to "regularly" launch retaliatory action against Britain over trade disputes.

By James Bickerton

01:53, Sun, Dec 27, 2020 | UPDATED: 01:53, Sun, Dec 27, 2020

Edited December 27, 2020 by david555

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, candide said:

Come back when UK makes a significant deal with a country which has not already a similar deal with the EU. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.

Quite. The UK is desperately trying to regain all the trade deals it lost through brexit.

To some, getting back what you already had is good news, and loosing all the fringe benefits in the process is great news.

In the words of Alan Bennett  'Now't so queer as folk'

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I am sure plenty of people eat SA beef and many people from the EU will be eating more SA beef as a result of the FTA agreement

Only if it adheres to EU regulations.

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, david555 said:

( Here he comes again " treaty breaker man "...now his intention's comes clear ....He only wanted to beat Santa in popularity on Christmas.....????Ego man...

 

E.U.....just veto it and stuff him his no deal ???? )

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1377029/Brexit-news-Boris-Johnson-EU-free-trade-agreement-Brussels-economy-WTO-ont

Brussels warning: Boris Johnson ready to ‘rip up’ Brexit deal if EU interferes on trade

BORIS JOHNSON has warned the EU he will rip up the Brexit trade agreement if Brussels attempts to "regularly" launch retaliatory action against Britain over trade disputes.

By James Bickerton

01:53, Sun, Dec 27, 2020 | UPDATED: 01:53, Sun, Dec 27, 2020

There is more to the agreement than trade, looks like second thoughts, a bit like the Withdrawal Agreement.