Teaching English as a non native speaker?

[Aurelien]

Hi everybody,

 

Maybe this has already been answered if so, please link me to the relevant topic...

 

I'm from Belgium, and I wish to teach in Thailand. I have a Bachelor's degree in modern languages from University. Alternatively, I would also like to teach music (guitar) in Thailand.

I know that as a non native speaker, I will probably have a harder time finding a teaching job. Does getting a TEFL diploma helps?

Teaching online might be an option, but I can't legally live in Thailand if my job is teaching online, can I? 

Thank you very much and have a nice day

 

Aurelien

 

[Peterw42]

I think you would find a degree in languages would be more desired than being a native speaker. Lots of Filipinos teach and English isn't their first language. You could always say you are English and traveling on a different passport.

Teaching online you wouldn't be telling anyone, and stay on whatever other Visa you may qualify for.

[Pilotman]

This is  probably not a popular view, but you should not teach English if you are not a native speaker/first language.  Teach French or Dutch,  but not English.  

[Ventenio]

you might get around 20,000 baht and not be as respected as a native speaker at school.  you would hear your name and "non-native" quite often.  less pictures of you, less salary, but left alone since you are not regarded as important.  

 

if this doesn't bother you, then I think you will get a job.

 

i'm really not trying to be mean, I've been in enough schools.  maybe things have changed in the last few years.  

[allane]

I speak English and French, and I have taught both in Thailand, sometimes at the same school during the same term.  But, my career was before the Khrusapha (Thai Teachers Association) Teachers Licence came into existence. A degree in Modern Languages should be enough for you to teach either or both.  I think from your name that your first language is French. if i am correct on that point, you will need to do a Test of English for International Communications (TOEIC) test to work as an English teacher. There is no requirement for a TEFL course to teach legally in Thailand.  With a degree in Modern Languages, I think that you are already more than qualified.

[cyril sneer]

The TEFL won't help with anything, it's a waste of money and time.

 

The school I work at has 12 English teachers, only 5 of them are native, the others are all from European countries.

 

When schools can't fill the positions with native speakers, they have no problem hiring non-native if they are white and have a degree.

[Pilotman]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:51 PM, allane said:

There is no requirement for a TEFL course to teach legally in Thailand.  With a degree in Modern Languages, I think that you are already more than qualified.

I'm sorry, but that is nonsense.  A TEFL teaches you how to teach your speciality, whatever that is.  A degree in your specialty doesn't mean you can teach it. Our Asian airline Training Captains were, are, the best at what they do as professional pilots, but they still needed a airline teaching certificate, and a TEFL or TESOL to be promoted to that job, as we had many different Nationalities training and flying. Maybe you have just highlighted yet one more reason that the knowledge of English is abysmal in Thailand. . 

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, cyril sneer said:

The TEFL won't help with anything, it's a waste of money and time.

 

The school I work at has 12 English teachers, only 5 of them are native, the others are all from European countries.

 

When schools can't fill the positions with native speakers, they have no problem hiring non-native if they are white and have a degree.

not so, see above. 

[puchooay]

7 hours ago, Pilotman said:

not so, see above. 

A Tefl gained in Thailand is not worth the paper it is printed on.

 

Only busy courses because of the "guaranteed teaching job" promised on most of the providers websites.

 

Nothing can really prepare you for classroom teaching, especially in Thailand. Gaining experience as you go is the best method for any newbie.

[flossie35]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:23 PM, Pilotman said:

This is  probably not a popular view, but you should not teach English if you are not a native speaker/first language.  Teach French or Dutch,  but not English.  

Maybe good advice for teaching at university level, but for schools all you need is a good basic knowledge of English, and teaching ability. Lots of native speakers think that because they can speak it they can teach it, but that doesn't follow. A teaching qualification would be very useful.

[Muhendis]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:23 PM, Pilotman said:

This is  probably not a popular view, but you should not teach English if you are not a native speaker/first language.  Teach French or Dutch,  but not English.  

Why not Flemish?

[1FinickyOne]

Most important - how is your accent? 

 

There was a teacher, long ago, at my niece's elementary school, from somewhere, he never owned-up, but had some sort of heavily accented Germanic pronunciation that I and others could not understand... in a way, this is cruel and fraudulent.

 

You may be quite the linguist, he was not, but, teaching children who struggle to pronounce English, improper, accented English, is not fair to the school or students. 

[Muhendis]

I think I would prefer Belgian English over many of the local dialects heard in the UK. Dutch and Belgian speakers of English are always excellent both in vocabulary and accent.

[JayClay]

11 hours ago, puchooay said:

A Tefl gained in Thailand is not worth the paper it is printed on.

You can do the Cambridge CELTA in Thailand and has just as much value as a CELTA certificate obtained anywhere else in the world. 

[1FinickyOne]

9 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

I think I would prefer Belgian English over many of the local dialects heard in the UK. Dutch and Belgian speakers of English are always excellent both in vocabulary and accent.

Better than awful is still not good when you are getting paid to teach someone else... unfortunately, in most Thai country schools, there is nobody there who would know if the person is speaking properly... if the pronunciation is good, I would not care where they are from... 

[phetphet]

You could perhaps apply at one of the French international schools. They will be teaching in French, and will likely be offering  English lessons. So both bases covered.

 

Also with COVID, there might be  a shortage of teachers, due to inability to get back into the  country. You don't say where  you are,  but if not already in Thailand, you might have the same  problem.

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

There is no need or requirement to be a native speaker to teach a language at Thai schools. Although it might be preferred from many schools.

The only thing required is that you can meet up to the documents needed to work as a techer in Thailand.

[BangkokReady]

28 minutes ago, JayClay said:

You can do the Cambridge CELTA in Thailand and has just as much value as a CELTA certificate obtained anywhere else in the world. 

While true, the CELTA isn't really a "TEFL".  A TEFL is not really assessed, only has a few hours in an actual classroom, there's no observed teaching, costs a couple of hundred currencies.  A CELTA is a month long intensive course based in a classroom with several hours of observed teaching that costs somewhere between one and two thousand currencies.

 

TEFL can range from completely useless to better than nothing, while CELTA actually teaches you something.

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

Why not Flemish?

because nobody outside a tiny part of continental Europe would want to learn it and the Thais will never have heard of it. 

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, flossie35 said:

Maybe good advice for teaching at university level, but for schools all you need is a good basic knowledge of English, and teaching ability. Lots of native speakers think that because they can speak it they can teach it, but that doesn't follow. A teaching qualification would be very useful.

Well that is a view, but English as we all know, is a very nuanced language, with words and phrases meaning many different things in differing context.  Badly taught English is almost as bad as no English at all.  When I met my wife, she could speak a kind of English that had been taught to her in a Thai College.  It took her many years to become fluent in the more nuanced side of the language and also in everyday English, as opposed to text book English,  such that she could use it effectively in her business life and with native English speakers.  Like any language training, if you start off badly, you hardly ever recover fluency, or interest.  Other Asian countries know all this and have reacted as they should, Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan are prime examples in teaching what we would term 'village children' in English.  Thailand needs to follow that route because right now, they are many decades behind the others. 

[Pilotman]

12 hours ago, puchooay said:

A Tefl gained in Thailand is not worth the paper it is printed on.

 

Only busy courses because of the "guaranteed teaching job" promised on most of the providers websites.

 

Nothing can really prepare you for classroom teaching, especially in Thailand. Gaining experience as you go is the best method for any newbie.

That is a terrible idea.  Learning 'on the job', so making the children suffer for your inadequacies,  is boarding on criminal. Get qualified first (nobody mentioned a Thai qualification).  I am talking of a internationally recognised TEFL or TESOL gained from a certified provider, not some micky mouse certificate, gained online by just paying a fee. 

[SomchaiCNX]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:23 PM, Pilotman said:

This is  probably not a popular view, but you should not teach English if you are not a native speaker/first language.  Teach French or Dutch,  but not English.  

One can not make spaghetti nor pizza when you are not Italian ? Most native English speakers have no clue about what it is to learn a second, third or forth language. I know a couple non native English speaking teachers and I would not change them for a native speaking one. I know native English speakers who don't understand other native English speakers from Glasgow, Manchester, Newcastle while I as a non native English speaker I'm used to communicate with all of them.

 

[SomchaiCNX]

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

Why not Flemish?

Because most non native Dutch or Flemish speakers don't know Flemish exist. ???? 

[SomchaiCNX]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Better than awful is still not good when you are getting paid to teach someone else... unfortunately, in most Thai country schools, there is nobody there who would know if the person is speaking properly... if the pronunciation is good, I would not care where they are from... 

I would probably have less problems understanding that German accented English speaker than somebody from Glasgow.  How many foreign languages did you and Solerno learn and speak fluently? Many non native English speakers from Europe speak better understandable English than most of the UK's native speaking ones (same for other native speaking countries). Took me a while to understand that the guy from New Zealand was talking about is deck and not his dick ???? I have met very few native English speakers who speak Oxford English. At the end it is all about communicating with each other. I speak French as well but still prefer subtitles when TV 5 is having Canadian native French speaking people explaining something ???? It is fun to discover all these different accents in the couple languages that I can communicate in. And FYI I'm even not perfect in my own native language, so what.  

[Ventenio]

parents PAY.  Parents ask, "Where are your farangs from?"   Let's not be stupid, they want to hear the word America and Americans.  They don't know America has a zillion people with different, crazy accents.  They think of the movies, songs, and what country their kid talks about.  Second has to be England.  There really is no third...................before I've talked to about 100000000 parents and there is no third.

 

i've also never seen a farang teacher really teach kids English, so there's that.  not saying it's all the farang's fault.  no school, activities, no co-teacher....etc.....

 

so it's up to you.  NNES can easily get a job, it only depends if you are happy and really, really reaching your potential.   lol.   the answer is, "no"....so I really only recommend this job to someone over 60 or under 25.  

 

[teacherclaire]

It's nonsense that a non-native English speaker shouldn't teach English. 

IMO, it's sad that even those who taught English at European schools are seen worse than a guy from Birmingham who laid tiles before.  

A great example is the use of easy words, for example, there, their, or they're.

Then you, your and you're. 
Many native speakers seem to have a problem with them. In my opinion, it all goes down to other necessary knowledge about grammar, the right sentence structure, and other useful pedagogical skills.  

I prefer a non-native English speaker with good pronunciation and an extended vocabulary to a guy from UK's sticks, where people are usually not understood by most Americans. 

If Americans don't understand a native English speaker, how can Thai students understand him or her? 
I've seen too many "teachers" from the UK who were not understood by most Americans.

These people even argued that Americans couldn't speak English, a sort of a joke, innit?

If the OP isn't aiming to teach English in an EP at a high school, where's the problem?

Most government schools with an hour of English per week with 50 plus students in a classroom, it wouldn't make a difference if the teacher's an educated English teacher from the UK, America, or elsewhere, or somebody with a good English command acquired somewhere else. 

There's a lot more to teaching a language than being a native speaker of it. 

Could any Thai born in Thailand go to any Western country and teach Thai? 

Of course not. 

The OP needs to pass a TOEIC examination, and I don't think it is challenging to find a job somewhere, making around 30 to 35 K/month.

[Muhendis]

34 minutes ago, SomchaiCNX said:

Because most non native Dutch or Flemish speakers don't know Flemish exist. ???? 

My tongue in cheek comments seem to fall flat here. I really must stop making them. ????

[Muhendis]

2 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

pedagogical

Damn! Where did I put my dictionary..........

[1FinickyOne]

4 minutes ago, SomchaiCNX said:

And FYI I'm even not perfect in my own native language, so what.  

I assume you are talking about a matter of degrees and percent...

 

not being able to understand someone from Glasgow does not make someone w/a thick German accent a suitable teacher... that is just being better than horribly awful. 

 

as to so what - - would you pay a teacher who can't do simple math to be a math teacher for your children? Do you want your child to learn that 4+4 = 10?

 

If you are the person paying to have your child educated, would you not want someone who is competent to do so? 

 

Fluent: Fluency is a very high bar - yes, I can speak Thai and my pronunciation is ok - - but certainly I cannot do it well enough to teach it... nor would I try.  

 

Learning something incorrectly is very damaging... I would rather my child not learn English then learn it incorrectly - - and pay for it...

 

Is there some other service in life that you pay for that you would want it done incorrectly.. your car mechanic, a cook in a restaurant? 

[1FinickyOne]

5 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

I prefer a non-native English speaker with good pronunciation

Yes, no matter where they come from - good pronunciation is imperative as Thai have difficulty w/many English sounds just as I have difficulty w/some Thai sounds...