Beloved Miami obstetrician Gregory Michael, 56, died following a suspected catastrophic reaction to the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine

[eisfeld]

8 minutes ago, 248900_1469958220 said:

Ok, agreed BUT the media has been complicit in promoting a scare campaign about this virus where blanket statements are commonplace. Merely questioning the vaccine seems to lump one into the  'antivaxxer' category. People are testing positive for this virus and then, if it falls within a certain timeframe, say 20 days they are marked as a 'covid death' seemingly whatever they die of.  To me THAT is also a 'blanket' statement about someones death......can it absolutely be proved? If not, they need to stop peddling the numbers based on such blanket statements.....I am talking media AND govts.

 

Oh absolutely. The media has done many mistakes and in more than a few a terrible job which actively is harming society. It's a travesty. Also agreed on some deaths being wrongly accounted to Covid19. I'm sure though that there is also a number of deaths due to Covid19 which are not counted towards Covid19. And every region and country does their own thing. Quite a few governments seem to be telling.... let's say "not the whole truth". But the overall numbers are pretty clear to me: the virus is serious and the vaccines are a big hope to fight it and save hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives.

[Virt]

I don't know if he died due to the vaccine or not. 

It's sad either ways. 

 

Having said that I think it's important to remember risk VS benefits in this discussion. 

I'm not trying to sound cold-hearted or anything... 

 

If we didn't start to vaccinate we would see more deaths counted in hundred of thousands if not millions worldwide within the next year. 

 

When the vaccination program is over we hopefully will see less than 1000 deaths due to the vaccines itself.

 

Other vaccines like the Chalmette vaccines for instance had a risk of 1-2 deaths pr million vaccinated so we WILL see cases where it's the vaccine itself that leads to deaths. 

 

It sounds cynical but if we can save so many lives through vaccines I think we have an obligation to do so. 

 

It's also important to say that it's up to people if they want a shot or not, so if people fear the vaccine, they don't have to get it. 

 

It's only natural to be critical about new vaccines, but please use common sense when you decide if you want it. 

[248900_1469958220]

20 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 

Oh absolutely. The media has done many mistakes and in more than a few a terrible job which actively is harming society. It's a travesty. Also agreed on some deaths being wrongly accounted to Covid19. I'm sure though that there is also a number of deaths due to Covid19 which are not counted towards Covid19. And every region and country does their own thing. Quite a few governments seem to be telling.... let's say "not the whole truth". But the overall numbers are pretty clear to me: the virus is serious and the vaccines are a big hope to fight it and save hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives.

Yes, ok I think we basically agree. I think this virus needs to be scrutinised a lot more than it has been...or has been 'allowed' to be. There seems to be an agenda as well being pushed. Open and reasonable debate about the vaccine and Covid 19 should be encouraged. 

[Sheryl]

8 hours ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

from the CDC site itself (that does not do any vaccine safety testing)

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html

 

also not a valid link I guess

 

Nothing in that link relevant to the thread or to any COVID vaccine

 

 

[TSF]

17 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I once went with my Brit wife for Cholera injections prior to a holiday in Africa.

She passed out within 30 seconds of the vaccine injection, the doctor was in a blind panic as I held her upright in the chair. 

We were both in our early 30s, and that was the last vaccination I ever had (for obvious reasons).

Lots of people pass out within 30 seconds of having blood taken for a blood test, when no substance at all is put into the human body. It's called Trypanophobia, fear of needles. I've gone woozy and almost passed out myself when having blood tests....it is very common. 

[cdemundo]

post hoc ergo propter hoc; Logic 101 common fallacies.

 

[cdemundo]

16 hours ago, sezze said:

I knew a post like this will come . So far 2 or 3 people died after being injected with the vaccine . That is 2-3 too much , i agree , but let's put it in perspective . So far more then 17.5 million did get their shot already . That's 1 per 6 million . Now think who does get the most shots at the moment , since it depends a bit from country to country , but most start with elderly homes and people working in healthcare . Those people who are most at risk of having infection and/or having serious effects from Covid in the 1st place .

Now check the numbers from these people death numbers in infection vs the 1 out of 6 millions for a vaccine . A vaccine is 1000's of times more safe then the infection .

 

I was thinking the same thing, 17.5 million people vaccinated.  Were any of those killed in auto accidents after the vaccination?  Does the vaccine cause auto accidents?  But when someone has an obsession they will never be convinced.

Edited January 8, 2021 by cdemundo

[Pravda]

I am not taking Bill Gates vaccine that will microchip me and install Windows 97 inside my body. 

[TSF]

14 minutes ago, Pravda said:

I am not taking Bill Gates vaccine that will microchip me and install Windows 97 inside my body. 

Could be worse, image getting Linux.

[robblok]

16 hours ago, 248900_1469958220 said:

Ok, but by that logic, someone that gets covid 19, is 85 and dies of a heart attack.....was it Covid that killed them? Was the heart attack a result of having Covid 19? Did they die 'of' Covid or 'with' it? This seems to be a question that isnt that popular at the moment. Are the two REALLY linked? There is debate about this, as there should be. The link can be just as tenuous. I am ok with vaccines and would take one......but I want to hang on a while first. Am I being unreasonable? Asking unreasonable questions?

Nothing unreasonable about it. But its hard to reply as you don't know the exact cause. The heart attack could be from the extra stress of covid or it could be unrelated something that would happen anyway given the state on the body before covid.

 

To have a link something has to have contributed too the demise. Same like with the guy in the article. How can a shot of a vaccine 2 weeks ago contribute to an disease that needs far more time to develop. Its like saying that a cancer patient who did not know they had cancer dies shortly after an vaccination. Then all of a sudden the vaccine causes cancer ? Or can we accept that there was a coincidence. The tinfoil hat brigade would make you believe whatever it is that makes vaccines bad. The pfizzer guy said it right more research should be put into this case first to be actually sure. One side is accusing (the tinfoil hats) while the other side says ok there is a problem lets investigate and see what it is after that ill make a comment.

 

As for not wanting to be first I believe a couple of million people did already to. If i could get a vaccine right now id do it. No worries no questions asked. I believe the tests and the millions that have already taken it. 

 

Just think if millions of people take the vaccine there are bound to be some coincidences. If some die in a car accident going back from vaccination. Do we say vaccination caused it or it was a coincidence. There are bound to be people with ill health in such a group who were going to die already and now die after the vaccine. The anti vaxers will use this without a link being proven.

 

Just look at the resident anti vaxer on this forum. Do you really want to be associated with people like that. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, TSF said:

Lots of people pass out within 30 seconds of having blood taken for a blood test, when no substance at all is put into the human body. It's called Trypanophobia, fear of needles. I've gone woozy and almost passed out myself when having blood tests....it is very common. 

No your wrong in 30 seconds a vaccine can destroy the body cause people to faint. Sorry let me readjust my tinfoil hat and 5G blocking clothes. I am so convinced of these things its all a big conspiracy. People should live like they did 1000 years ago without medicine and hospitals. Because its all make belief big pharma tells us that we need it. We don't need it the fact that we now live decades longer on average then then is just because ...........   eh let me think about that. Also those millions of lives saved by vaccination is a lie made up by big pharma.

 

You should believe me and by the way i got more tinfoil if you follow my lead.

 

 

???? anti vaxer response.

[mtls2005]

It is fascinating that the very people who discount COVID-19 related deaths as some vast conspiracy, are the same ones who jump on any sort of anti-vax "story"?

 

It's OK for you to be anti-vax, but what is with the desire to sway others? It is almost as if they know they are wrong, but need the reinforcement of others to perpetuate their "belief".

 

I think this is how cults work.

 

 

 

 

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Nothing unreasonable about it. But its hard to reply as you don't know the exact cause. The heart attack could be from the extra stress of covid or it could be unrelated something that would happen anyway given the state on the body before covid.

 

To have a link something has to have contributed too the demise. Same like with the guy in the article. How can a shot of a vaccine 2 weeks ago contribute to an disease that needs far more time to develop. Its like saying that a cancer patient who did not know they had cancer dies shortly after an vaccination. Then all of a sudden the vaccine causes cancer ? Or can we accept that there was a coincidence. The tinfoil hat brigade would make you believe whatever it is that makes vaccines bad. The pfizzer guy said it right more research should be put into this case first to be actually sure. One side is accusing (the tinfoil hats) while the other side says ok there is a problem lets investigate and see what it is after that ill make a comment.

 

As for not wanting to be first I believe a couple of million people did already to. If i could get a vaccine right now id do it. No worries no questions asked. I believe the tests and the millions that have already taken it. 

 

Just think if millions of people take the vaccine there are bound to be some coincidences. If some die in a car accident going back from vaccination. Do we say vaccination caused it or it was a coincidence. There are bound to be people with ill health in such a group who were going to die already and now die after the vaccine. The anti vaxers will use this without a link being proven.

 

Just look at the resident anti vaxer on this forum. Do you really want to be associated with people like that. 

 

I remember as a youngster being quoted a  1 in a million chance of something going wrong. We just accepted that as tiny and went with the risk.  Maybe something has changed these days, maybe we all feel lucky when we're young!

 

Having said that, reports of serious side effects with the Pfizer vaccine are currently running at 10 times that of the flu shot.  

 

My impression is that we need to be careful with this 'novel' vaccine, as with all new things, but that it very likely does far more good than harm.

 

The issue with vaccinations is that we are putting in to the bodies of people who are already healthy- there is the potential there to cause unnecessary harm.  1 in a 1,000,000 risk is more than acceptable in my view, but people should be free to make their own choice, and should be made aware of this before taking the jab.  It does no good to do otherwise.

 

 

[4MyEgo]

On 1/8/2021 at 5:41 PM, eisfeld said:

Honest and reputable reporting would be more akin to showing a breakdown of the various numbers as to how many people received, the vaccines, how many have shown adverse effects, how many are investigated for serious adverse effects, how many have been cleared etc. Not talking about how "beloved" he was, showing unrelated family pictures and reporting believes.

[piewarmer]

I love how the rich and famous are jumping the queue to be Guinea Pigs

[eisfeld]

7 hours ago, TSF said:

Could be worse, image getting Linux.

Dude, I swear those people when they sneeze are saying "Gentoo!".

[Bender Rodriguez]

On 1/8/2021 at 1:58 PM, sezze said:

I knew a post like this will come . So far 2 or 3 people died after being injected with the vaccine . That is 2-3 too much , i agree , but let's put it in perspective . So far more then 17.5 million did get their shot already . That's 1 per 6 million . Now think who does get the most shots at the moment , since it depends a bit from country to country , but most start with elderly homes and people working in healthcare . Those people who are most at risk of having infection and/or having serious effects from Covid in the 1st place .

Now check the numbers from these people death numbers in infection vs the 1 out of 6 millions for a vaccine . A vaccine is 1000's of times more safe then the infection .

 

with no signs of sickness or infection, no fever, cough, ... I prefer not to stick up an experimental vaccine with skipped clinical trials (normally 10 years worth of it), for a disease you have to do a PCR test (multiply a code of dna in the back of your throat) up to 30x to find "something",  a PCR test with false positives and where the inventor said:  do not use for CORONA virus-es in the hope my body makes anti-bodies to it and / or possibly over react to this new kind of RNA virus vaccine that has NEVER been used before ... 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Bender Rodriguez

[Bender Rodriguez]

18 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Nothing in that link relevant to the thread or to any COVID vaccine

 

 

 

I know, it was a history of MISTAKES in the past

 

and every Big pharma company has been made to pay BILLIONS in fines over FRAUD & LIES

 

in case people want to fight that :

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=every+Big+pharma+company+has+been+made+to+pay+BILLIONS+in+damages+over+FRAUD+%26+LIES

 

 

or 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

 

millions, billions in fines

 

just the first alone

 

Criminal: Off-label promotion, failure to disclose safety data.
Civil: paying kickbacks to physicians, making false and misleading statements concerning the safety of Avandia, reporting false best prices and underpaying rebates owed under the Medicaid Drug Rebate Program

 

so sorry, if I doubt the honesty & good heart of ANY of big pharma companies most people don't even know or mostly don't care 

 

anybody want to refute that statement about fines of EVERY Big pharma company ?

[Cake Monster]

On 1/8/2021 at 12:30 PM, DavisH said:

Cooincidence. Deaths after thousands of vaccinations will obviously occur and have nothing to do with the vaccine. The causal link between the vaccine and cause of death will need to be demonstrated. 

Sadly, there will always be a very small minority of people , for one reason or another , that have some kind of allergic reaction to any Vaccine. Not just a Vaccine for Covid

RIP

[Bender Rodriguez]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

We don't need it the fact that we now live decades longer on average then then is just because .

 

sorry, wrong again

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=this+generation+of+americans+will+live+less+long+than+their+parents

 

 

[Bender Rodriguez]

13 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

Sadly, there will always be a very small minority of people , for one reason or another , that have some kind of allergic reaction to any Vaccine. Not just a Vaccine for Covid

RIP

 

would it not be sad if it was you, your mother/father  or    YOUR CHILD

 

that had no signs of being sick, fever, no symptoms or whatever

 

but now that person is DEAD because you were convinced, they needed this shot or they would die

for a disease you have to get tested, to know you had it... 

 

is an ounce of prevention not better than a pound of cure ?

 

nobody knows IF or how this MD died, but he did and awaiting results

 

but some here already KNOW, that it is 100 percent not related

 

now that is what I call blind faith / religion / cult

 

 

people here lost their mind ???  66 death out of 69.500.000 THAI people

 

so we need to inject all of them, to "save"  66 ?

 

and everybody will react to this the same way, because we are all the same ? same immunity ? same health ? same diseases  ?

 

I have ZERO problems anybody taken it, as long as it is not FORCED.

 

I don't intend (neither for my children) to be a guinea pig for big pharma, be my guest.

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Bender Rodriguez

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2021 at 1:46 PM, BritManToo said:

Honest and reputable would involve freely admitting the vaccine likely killed him.

But we all know in our heart of hearts the medical/pharmaceutical industry isn't either honest or reputable, it's all about denying liability and minimising compensation.

The deceased wife isn't a doctor but claims he was healthy, blames it on the vaccine. What will be next, a billion dollar lawsuit?

[sezze]

11 hours ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

with no signs of sickness or infection, no fever, cough, ... I prefer not to stick up an experimental vaccine with skipped clinical trials (normally 10 years worth of it), for a disease you have to do a PCR test (multiply a code of dna in the back of your throat) up to 30x to find "something",  a PCR test with false positives and where the inventor said:  do not use for CORONA virus-es in the hope my body makes anti-bodies to it and / or possibly over react to this new kind of RNA virus vaccine that has NEVER been used before ... 

 

 

A you do know how all has been done much faster ? All presently approved vaccines did there development before Covid ... how that is possible , easy : covid is a variation of SARS and MERS , on which research had been done and once the full sequence of the new corona virus was known , they added this instead of the SARS sequence.  Also , since it was urgent , all results were straight away shared with the official resources , instead of waiting till all results are in . Also , when they start researching a new vaccine / medicine , a company does it as 1 of the jobs they are doing and researching . With the present situation all other research was put on hold , and working only on this vaccine . Another step faster . Aslo , multiple steps are done at once , instead of doing them small step by small step . 100 years ago , going to Thailand from Europe , would take a long time , probably a few weeks . Now you take a flight of 10h and you are there .

B many people died and /or staying hospital or having serious effects of this virus . And the ones who do get the shot are in 1st place the same elderly who "covid deniers " call them dying anyway . With the vaccine apparently not many died at all . Probably today the counter is on 20million+ so the 2-3 who died , might be of allergic reaction , but just might as well be just to have a heart failure because of stress . How many people die from alcohol daily , still many people drink . How come : because you know the risk is very low . Do you want to be infected with covid and have the gamble ? or take the safer option of a vaccine , which has already been proven to be 1000s of times safer then the virus .

 

[Credo]

It's a tempest in a teapot.  There is nothing to suggest his death is related to the vaccine any more than a hospital worker I know who got the vaccine a few days ago and was killed in a car accident two days later.   Does the vaccine cause car accidents?

 

[FarFlungFalang]

On 1/8/2021 at 1:05 PM, robblok said:

Just that someone for instance gets an heart attack after a vaccination does not mean the two are linked. 

You mean like when someone dies of a heart attack or car accident after testing positive for Sars Cov 2 shouldn't be counted as a covid death? 

[robblok]

15 hours ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

would it not be sad if it was you, your mother/father  or    YOUR CHILD

 

that had no signs of being sick, fever, no symptoms or whatever

 

but now that person is DEAD because you were convinced, they needed this shot or they would die

for a disease you have to get tested, to know you had it... 

 

is an ounce of prevention not better than a pound of cure ?

 

nobody knows IF or how this MD died, but he did and awaiting results

 

but some here already KNOW, that it is 100 percent not related

 

now that is what I call blind faith / religion / cult

 

 

people here lost their mind ???  66 death out of 69.500.000 THAI people

 

so we need to inject all of them, to "save"  66 ?

 

and everybody will react to this the same way, because we are all the same ? same immunity ? same health ? same diseases  ?

 

I have ZERO problems anybody taken it, as long as it is not FORCED.

 

I don't intend (neither for my children) to be a guinea pig for big pharma, be my guest.

 

No its called logic and science. Its not 100% but close too. This disease has a long onset. So a vaccination and then death from this disease in this timeframe is highly unlikely. 

 

Chances of this being of this vaccine are slim. Yet you the resident anti vaxer were convinced otherwise. I the one who believes science was not.

[Bender Rodriguez]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

No its called logic and science. Its not 100% but close too. This disease has a long onset. So a vaccination and then death from this disease in this timeframe is highly unlikely. 

 

I guess you don't read what you don't want to read

 

I already stated from CDC website

 

"In extremely rare cases, the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine has been linked to thrombocytopenia in young children, according to a 2003 study. The condition can also be caused by cancer, anemia, heavy drinking, viruses, some genetic conditions, toxic chemicals and medications such as diuretics and the rarely used antibiotic chloramphenicol."

 

 

Adults don't get that kind of child vaccine (normally)... it clearly states that thrombocytopenia could be from a VACCINE as stated above .... but ignore that part of science and put your blinders on

 

the same adjuvant might cause this, PEG for example

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=peg+in+vaccine

 

but again, let's just IGNORE science 

 

 

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

I guess you don't read what you don't want to read

 

I already stated from CDC website

 

"In extremely rare cases, the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine has been linked to thrombocytopenia in young children, according to a 2003 study. The condition can also be caused by cancer, anemia, heavy drinking, viruses, some genetic conditions, toxic chemicals and medications such as diuretics and the rarely used antibiotic chloramphenicol."

 

 

Adults don't get that kind of child vaccine (normally)... it clearly states that thrombocytopenia could be from a VACCINE as stated above .... but ignore that part of science and put your blinders on

 

the same adjuvant might cause this, PEG for example

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=peg+in+vaccine

 

but again, let's just IGNORE science 

 

 

We are talking about COVID not other vaccines. Stop going off topic with unrelated claims. 

[placeholder]

On 1/8/2021 at 1:05 PM, robblok said:

Just that someone for instance gets an heart attack after a vaccination does not mean the two are linked. 

 

 

 

 "If A then not necessarily B" is not the same as "If A, then not B"

[placeholder]

On 1/8/2021 at 1:46 PM, BritManToo said:

Honest and reputable would involve freely admitting the vaccine likely killed him.

But we all know in our heart of hearts the medical/pharmaceutical industry isn't either honest or reputable, it's all about denying liability and minimising compensation.

Thanks for your diagnosis, Dr. of what exactly?