Scottish nationalists set for record majority, boosting independence push

[welovesundaysatspace]

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

I was assuming you knew the difference between general elections and 'one off' or 'once in a generation'  Referendums.

The difference is where the sovereign draws the line. That’s not you but the Scottish people. 

 

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

It's not really practical to have votes on issues such leaving the EU and rejoining the EU every 4 years. Otherwise we might have voted to rejoin the EU before we'd actually left. If the vote kept swinging one way then the other, then it wouldn't be possible to leave and rejoin the EU every 5 years.

It’s also not really practical to leave the EU. You still did it ???? 

 

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

That's why they tend to happen once in a generation, coincidentally exactly as stated by the Scottish government in it's white paper prior to the vote on Scottish Independence.

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_second_Scottish_independence_referendum#:~:text=Ahead of that referendum%2C the,better direction for our nation".

 

And Theresa May’s government said there wouldn’t be a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, yet now there is. Current government are elected by current populaces to represent their current wishes, I’m afraid, and they don’t need to feel bound to what past governments said. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

We don't live in a neverendum country, the Scots have decided and to put the tin hat on it, their leaders and deputy leaders stated it would be "a once in a lifetime opportunity" so knock me down with a feather Trevor.

Like I said, that’s up to the Scottish people to decide, not for the British, same as no EU country told you that you “don’t live in a neverendum country”. 
 

 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Like I said, that’s up to the Scottish people to decide, not for the British, same as no EU country told you that you “don’t live in a neverendum country”. 
 

 

Scottish referendum: Scotland votes 'No' to independence

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-29270441

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

Scottish referendum: Scotland votes 'No' to independence

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-29270441

 

And maybe if the Nasty Party kept their promises and maybe if the rabid xenophobic right never became mainstream in our neighbours, we might have a happy, content UK. Sadly we see the continued rise of the right in our neighbours and the forced imposition of isolationist brexit upon our country. Now we see what a colossal error of judgement it was to think that England could change for the better. 

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And maybe if the Nasty Party kept their promises and maybe if the rabid xenophobic right never became mainstream in our neighbours, we might have a happy, content UK. Sadly we see the continued rise of the right in our neighbours and the forced imposition of isolationist brexit upon our country. Now we see what a colossal error of judgement it was to think that England could change for the better. 

We get it RR, you don't like your "parasitic" neighbour, these days you don't even try to hide it.

You say the rise of "the rabid xenophobic right" have you thought for just one moment the those you are referring to may have held their centrist views whilst the left have shifted off the scale of leftism that it actually makes the centrists look right wing.

All the hate most of us are seeing is not coming from (as you put it) the right.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

We get it RR, you don't like your "parasitic" neighbour, these days you don't even try to hide it.

 

I hate your choice in government and the fact that my country is powerless to resist it. 

 

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

You say the rise of "the rabid xenophobic right" have you thought for just one moment the those you are referring to may have held their centrist views whilst the left have shifted off the scale of leftism that it actually makes the centrists look right wing.

I did think about it for a moment then I laughed at such a ridiculous notion. 

 

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

All the hate most of us are seeing is not coming from (as you put it) the right.

But you see hate in very strange places. You repeatedly talk of hate from independence supporters but you repeatedly fail to identify it. I think you are seeing ghosts. I would suggest that there is plenty hate from the far left, indeed - people to be avoided, but the Brexit far right is no better, as we saw all across London last year and all across your country since 2015. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

40 minutes ago, vogie said:

Scottish referendum: Scotland votes 'No' to independence

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-29270441

And now they want to vote again on independence. That’s the thing with being the sovereign in a democracy: it’s not a one-time event but something you enjoy forever. 

[vogie]

32 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I hate your choice in government and the fact that my country is powerless to resist it. 

 

I did think about it for a moment then I laughed at such a ridiculous notion. 

 

But you see hate in very strange places. You repeatedly talk of hate from independence supporters but you repeatedly fail to identify it. I think you are seeing ghosts. I would suggest that there is plenty hate from the far left, indeed - people to be avoided, but the Brexit far right is no better, as we saw all across London last year and all across your country since 2015. 

I hate your choice in government and the fact that my country is powerless to resist it. 

Your country is the United Kingdom, remember the Scots Nats have 47 seats in your Westminster Parliament.

 

I did think about it for a moment then I laughed at such a ridiculous notion. 

As long as I keep you amused I feel my living has not been in vain. Think about it a little more it is not as rediculous as you may think, we are living in a society where if you don't share the same views as, let's say the SNP you are branded a traitor, so what anyone calls anyone else these days can be like water off a ducks back.

 

But you see hate in very strange places. You repeatedly talk of hate from independence supporters but you repeatedly fail to identify it. I think you are seeing ghosts. I would suggest that there is plenty hate from the far left, indeed - people to be avoided, but the Brexit far right is no better, as we saw all across London last year and all across your country since 2015. 

 

"You repeatedly talk of hate from independence supporters but you repeatedly fail to identify it. I think you are seeing ghosts."

It has been identified to you on many occasions and like someone who may be embarrassed by the truth some people find burrying their head in the sand an alternative solution. Anyone who says that the SNP have not instilled hatred and has divided Scotland I find a rediculous notion, the clues are there. 

[RayC]

48 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And now they want to vote again on independence. That’s the thing with being the sovereign in a democracy: it’s not a one-time event but something you enjoy forever. 

 

That's what the argument is about!

 

At the moment Westminster is sovereign, not Holyrood as you seem to infer.

[welovesundaysatspace]

11 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

That's what the argument is about!

 

At the moment Westminster is sovereign, not Holyrood as you seem to infer.

Exactly. As an EU member, the UK was a sovereign state that could freely decide when and how to leave. It doesn’t grant the same sovereignty to its own members. that’s what the argument is about. That Scotland and the Scottish people should be able to decide their fate themselves, but the UK wouldn’t let them. 

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

If you supported the Scots, you would let them decide themselves how many referendums they want to have. 

I know how many you want. If the next one were to result in a "leave" vote, one would be enough.

 

If the next vote was "remain", you would want another and another and another..........until you got the result you wanted.

[NiceGuyEddy]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Like I said, that’s up to the Scottish people to decide, not for the British, same as no EU country told you that you “don’t live in a neverendum country”. 
 

 

You should sign up for indoctrination by the SNP, they are looking for people like you. Doesn't matter that you are not Scottish / British, they just want your vote and hatred of the "Little Englanders".

[Sujo]

18 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Exactly. As an EU member, the UK was a sovereign state that could freely decide when and how to leave. It doesn’t grant the same sovereignty to its own members. that’s what the argument is about. That Scotland and the Scottish people should be able to decide their fate themselves, but the UK wouldn’t let them. 

Exactly right. Refuse them the vote to leave and then complain that they are in.

 

Note most arguing agsinst it are brexiteers. That says hipocracy in bundles.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

I know how many you want. If the next one were to result in a "leave" vote, one would be enough.

 

If the next vote was "remain", you would want another and another and another..........until you got the result you wanted.

That’s up to the Scottish to decide. Not me or you. 

[Sujo]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

I know how many you want. If the next one were to result in a "leave" vote, one would be enough.

 

If the next vote was "remain", you would want another and another and another..........until you got the result you wanted.

In fairness it may be because of a major change called brexit that has a major impact on each country.

 

After such a change each country should be given a vote on whether they want to stay or not.

[RuamRudy]

36 minutes ago, vogie said:

Your country is the United Kingdom, remember the Scots Nats have 47 seats in your Westminster Parliament

 

Yes, the vast majority of our representatives are elected to oppose the nasty party, but they accomplish nothing because they have no power there. 

 

And then our prime minister, the leader of the UK, ignores them and attempts to ridicule them regardless of the party they represent. He does it because they are Scottish, representing a Scottish constituency. 

 

39 minutes ago, vogie said:

we are living in a society where if you don't share the same views as, let's say the SNP you are branded a traitor, so what anyone calls anyone else these days can be like water off a ducks back.

 

This is revisionism in the extreme. The entire Brexit narrative was about hounding out 'traitors'. Dont throw your foul linen into our garden, thanks. 

41 minutes ago, vogie said:

has been identified to you on many occasions and like someone who may be embarrassed by the truth some people find burrying their head in the sand an alternative solution. Anyone who says that the SNP have not instilled hatred and has divided Scotland I find a rediculous notion, the clues are there

It's a waste of time me even asking for examples. You will continue to tell these lies and then fail to prove them otherwise no matter how many times I request you to. 

[youreavinalaff]

13 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

That’s up to the Scottish to decide. Not me or you. 

 

11 minutes ago, Sujo said:

In fairness it may be because of a major change called brexit that has a major impact on each country.

 

After such a change each country should be given a vote on whether they want to stay or not.

Maybe.

 

However, do either of you have the balls to say that you would back off if the next referendum were a "remain" vote?

[vogie]

27 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Yes, the vast majority of our representatives are elected to oppose the nasty party, but they accomplish nothing because they have no power there. 

 

And then our prime minister, the leader of the UK, ignores them and attempts to ridicule them regardless of the party they represent. He does it because they are Scottish, representing a Scottish constituency. 

 

 

This is revisionism in the extreme. The entire Brexit narrative was about hounding out 'traitors'. Dont throw your foul linen into our garden, thanks. 

It's a waste of time me even asking for examples. You will continue to tell these lies and then fail to prove them otherwise no matter how many times I request you to. 

Yes, the vast majority of our representatives are elected to oppose the nasty party, but they accomplish nothing because they have no power there. 

The reason they have no power there, as you put it is because they do not have enough seats, why don't they put candidates up for election in the rest of the UK, then they will have power if elected. But in all fairness they have done well in getting 47 seats at Westminster with so few of the voters voting for them.

 

And then our prime minister, the leader of the UK, ignores them and attempts to ridicule them regardless of the party they represent. He does it because they are Scottish, representing a Scottish constituency. 

Stop playing the victim all the time, who could not possibly ridicule Ian Blackford.

 

The entire Brexit narrative was about hounding out 'traitors'. Dont throw your foul linen into our garden, thanks. 

It's a waste of time me even asking for examples. You will continue to tell these lies and then fail to prove them otherwise no matter how many times I request you to. 

 

No linen was ever thrown into your garden, it just blows in there quite naturally. I given you examples and you just ignore everything anybody shows or mentions to you, not my problem. 

But calling me a liar is just you name calling when you don't get your own way, childish.

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by vogie

[welovesundaysatspace]

16 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

However, do either of you have the balls to say that you would back off if the next referendum were a "remain" vote?

Up to the Scottish people. Not me. 

[youreavinalaff]

5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Up to the Scottish people. Not me. 

So, you've been banging on about this but you don't have an opinion either way? Interesting.

[welovesundaysatspace]

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

So, you've been banging on about this but you don't have an opinion either way? Interesting.

My opinion is that it should be up to the Scottish people to decide. Apologies if you don’t like that opinion. Asking again and again will not change my opinion; I’ll just have to keep “banging on” about it. 

[youreavinalaff]

6 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

My opinion is that it should be up to the Scottish people to decide. Apologies if you don’t like that opinion. Asking again and again will not change my opinion; I’ll just have to keep “banging on” about it. 

Not an opinion, per se. Also not an answer to my question.

 

More of a case of passing the buck.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

Stop playing the victim all the time, who could not possibly ridicule Ian Blackford.

 

 

Not an SNP MP but a Scottish one representing a Scottish constituency - Christine Jardine, LibDem MP asks a question and he ignores it and criticises the independence movement. That is the mark of the man - he isn't concerned about the party, he just hears a Scottish voice and he shows his ignorance.

 

20 minutes ago, vogie said:

No linen was ever thrown into your garden, it just blows in there quite naturally. I given you examples and you just ignore everything anybody shows or mentions to you, not my problem. 

But calling me a liar is just you name calling when you don't get your own way, childish.

 

Were you blushing when you typed that, or is shame not something you possess? An ardent brexiteer accusing anyone of branding others as traitors is off the scale in terms of irony. 

 

Whereas all you have shown is a banner saying tory scum out of Scotland. Quite why you think this could only be independence supporters is baffling. Most decent minded people probably feel the same regardless of how they feel about independence. That is the sum total of your complaint about the SNP being anti-English. 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not an opinion, per se.

Also not an answer to my question.

Like I said: Up to you if you don’t like my opinion. I won’t change it for you. 

 

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

More of a case of passing the buck.

Nope. 

[RuamRudy]

And, friends, I would like to present to you the HoA from the Smith Commission, set up by David Cameron after the 2014 referendum. 

 

I refer you specifically to point 18, highlighted in the photo:

 

18. It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Not an SNP MP but a Scottish one representing a Scottish constituency - Christine Jardine, LibDem MP asks a question and he ignores it and criticises the independence movement. That is the mark of the man - he isn't concerned about the party, he just hears a Scottish voice and he shows his ignorance.

 

 

Were you blushing when you typed that, or is shame not something you possess? An ardent brexiteer accusing anyone of branding others as traitors is off the scale in terms of irony. 

 

Whereas all you have shown is a banner saying tory scum out of Scotland. Quite why you think this could only be independence supporters is baffling. Most decent minded people probably feel the same regardless of how they feel about independence. That is the sum total of your complaint about the SNP being anti-English. 

 

One of your closest SNP allies stated on here that those that don't vote for the SNP are traitors, another admitted that the SNP hates the English, and if your vociferous posts are anything to go by, I ask you, it is not rocket science. The amount of blue painty faced SNP supporters marching with their banners stating 'England out of Scotland and Tory Scum' does tend to make ones eyebrows raise a tad. I just wonder as to the conversations that goes on in the byre dwellings of the highlands, I wouldn't imagine it would be on the lines of 'I wonder how England got on today at Trent Bridge' now would it. 

The back to back burning of our union flag doesn't really come across as they actually like us Sassanachs. The clues are there RR, there for them that look anyway.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

One of your closest SNP allies stated on here that those that don't vote for the SNP are traitors, another admitted that the SNP hates the English, and if your vociferous posts are anything to go by, I ask you, it is not rocket science. The amount of blue painty faced SNP supporters marching with their banners stating 'England out of Scotland and Tory Scum' does tend to make ones eyebrows raise a tad. I just wonder as to the conversations that goes on in the byre dwellings of the highlands, I wouldn't imagine it would be on the lines of 'I wonder how England got on today at Trent Bridge' now would it. 

The back to back burning of our union flag doesn't really come across as they actually like us Sassanachs. The clues are there RR, there for them that look anyway.

Why does the burning of the union flag, stupid and immature as it is, indicate a dislike of English people? The union flag is not the flag of England. Do you really need to be told that?

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

And, friends, I would like to present to you the HoA from the Smith Commission, set up by David Cameron after the 2014 referendum. 

 

I refer you specifically to point 18, highlighted in the photo:

 

18. It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.

As far as I'm aware "Heads of Agreement" are not a legally binding document, would that be a fair assumption RR?

[youreavinalaff]

Lots of questions being avoided here.

 

Let me, please, ask one simple question.

 

If/when indyref2 happens, do the people following this thread feel that will be the final decision? Would everyone accept the decision either way? I, for one, would. If the Scots voted "leave" then go. If " remain" then stay. 

 

I can't see those in favour of "leave" giving such a clear cut answer.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Why does the burning of the union flag, stupid and immature as it is, indicate a dislike of English people? The union flag is not the flag of England. Do you really need to be told that?

Where did I say it was the English flag, it was done to provoke the Unionists and thus add further hatred amongst the Scots.

But you agree with the rest of my post?

Edited February 16, 2021 by vogie