Buying a house for your wife/ partner with protection

[fordguy61mi]

10 hours ago, madmen said:

Every thread on TV on the topic ends up with all farang gushing how deliriously happy they are 

Based on that I have to say the divorce rate maybe 10% assuming posters weren't using a bit of load ????

I think there are many more “deliriously happy” farang out there than not. It’s like Amazon reviews, people with negative experiences tend to be more vocal about it than people who are satisfied. I’d say more here on TV bash Thai marriage than glorify it.

[Lacessit]

So far in my life, I have given three women houses. The first two involuntarily. With the third, I reckon it is a bargain for what I am getting in return.

[digibum]

20 minutes ago, fordguy61mi said:

I think there are many more “deliriously happy” farang out there than not. It’s like Amazon reviews, people with negative experiences tend to be more vocal about it than people who are satisfied. I’d say more here on TV bash Thai marriage than glorify it.

You don’t have to “deliriously happy”.  That implies an unrealistic level of happiness.  I’m good with just being happy.  
 

But I agree, who is going to go around writing about how great their marriage is?  Not many.  
 

But people that have been in a bad relationship love to fill your ears.  

[gamini]

Easy to get her to give you a 30 year lease. No one can sell the house without your permission. I did that but I eventually gave the house to my wife after we were married for 25 years. She is still with me now 20 years later.

[billd766]

15 hours ago, cheynewalk said:

What is usufruct? Is that a common practice in thailand? If so, why don't more expats cover themselves this way?

Because I trust my wife of 20 years. We have known each other since 1993 and she has had plenty of time to rip me off if she wanted to.

 

Part of marriage is trust. You each have to trust the other. If you cannot, then don't marry or keep everything in your name and most likely the marriage will die a death at some time.

 

Honesty is another part. 

[billd766]

12 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I think 50% of marriages in UK end in divorce, what's it here?  % of farang/Thai marriages would be interesting, I reckon more than 50%

Speaking from experience among the 30 or so farangs that I know reasonably well I can only remember 3 divorces in some 20 years.

 

Some married girls from bars yet the cause of the divorce were the husband playing around and not the Thai wife.

 

Most of the guys are engineers and self employed and not tattooed wearing wife beater T shirts and most of them have been married in the West before and divorced there.

[billd766]

51 minutes ago, digibum said:

You don’t have to “deliriously happy”.  That implies an unrealistic level of happiness.  I’m good with just being happy.  
 

But I agree, who is going to go around writing about how great their marriage is?  Not many.  
 

But people that have been in a bad relationship love to fill your ears.  

Years ago TVF ran a thread similar to this as good news.

 

It was shut down because there were so many whiners and moaners they swamped the thread.

 

The Thai bashers had a field day.

 

Good news doesn't sell. Bad news attracts moaners and whiners like flies to a t*rd.

[wwest5829]

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

#1) Google is your friend

#2) Because I didn’t marry an ex-ho !!!!  - can’t speak for others !

#1 ... agree.

#2 ... you overstep. Neither did I but a usufruct protects the “foreigner” under Thai law which forbids owning land.

[Thomas J]

18 hours ago, cheynewalk said:

Is it possible to buy a house in your thai wife/partner's name, then at the same time rent the house back from your partner at a peppercorn rent for say 20 to 30 years?  That would cover you in the event your partner decided to kick you out or even if you have a trusted partner and they suddenly died then the family could not take the house from you whilst you had the rental contract in place.

After losing one home to a former thai partner my neighbor did exactly that.  He purchased the home which is in her name and then went to an attorney and drafted a rental agreement whereby he is allowed to stay.  I am not sure if it is for a term certain like 30 years or a life lease but one way or another, she can not sell the home without it being subject to the lease nor can she kick him out.  

[brianthainess]

On 1/15/2021 at 2:40 AM, cheynewalk said:

What is usufruct? Is that a common practice in thailand? If so, why don't more expats cover themselves this way?

Google it. It gives you complete management of land, house etc till you kick the bucket, however, I hear some provinces don't like to do it, and especially around Pattaya. 

[jackdd]

If you are married already a usufruct is worthless.

The best solution is to let her buy the house in her name with a mortage, and you can help to pay the monthly rates like you would pay rent somewhere else.

[Orton Rd]

On 1/15/2021 at 6:15 AM, bkk6060 said:

If her desire is for a house, rent a nice one.

If she doesn't like it, find another girl plenty out there who don't have the "buy me a house" demands.

Does not always work out cheaper, would have paid more in rent over the past ten years that what our house cost

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Cheynewalk – 

 

What I did several years ago. Nonthaburi province. Wife (Thai) and I retired in Thailand. 25 years married and going strong – trust is not an issue. Had lots of legal stuff to complete so had both American and Thai attorneys on retainers. 

 

Purchased a new house in a Moo Baan. Paid cash (transferred from USA), no mortgage involved. House is in wife’s name.

 

Thai lawyer and I discussed options. Usufruct and long-term lease. The Thai lawyer did advise a long-term renewable lease. However, at that time, Nonthaburi only allowed leases to businesses (Thai semantics involved). They (Nonthaburi) proposed a thirty-year renewable usufruct as the (at the time) way to protect a foreigner in this/my situation. 

 

Now I have a thirty-year renewable usufruct (if I live that long I really will not care). I am listed on the Chanote as the mortgage holder (Thai semantics/transliteration). And I have the right to eat there for thirty years (again semantics)

 

As was explained to me by my Thai Attorney – nothing can happen on the property without my permission. Read into that what you like. I do not own the house or the land but I have legal control of both. 

 

The thing is, this was all done amicably. All persons involved wife and family, lawyers, bureaucrats are fully aware that I, a foreigner, cannot own Thailand land. They also know I, as a foreigner, need protection of my money (a house is a considerable sum). And, they all were straight forward, and, a Usufruct is the method used in Nonthaburi to protect my asset. Consider a loophole.

 

Now, all that being said. You are a foreigner who will have a considerable sized asset in the country of Thailand. Move slow and cautiously. Investigate all your options. Seek professional legal advice (consult with) “multiple” Thai attorneys. Do your due diligence and select your attorney carefully. Require and receive a copy of his/her legal license and credentials. Verify you are dealing with an actual attorney – not a consultant selling legal advice. 

 

Investigate, trust and verify. Protect yourself. FYI cost for myself @ THB 50k for the legal documentation of the house purchase and Usufruct. The house was purchased from a very large and well know Thai construction firm.

 

Good Luck.

[4MyEgo]

On 1/15/2021 at 9:37 AM, scubascuba3 said:

I think 50% of marriages in UK end in divorce, what's it here?  % of farang/Thai marriages would be interesting, I reckon more than 50%

I suppose it depends on how independent the partner is.

 

Been very happily married for 14 years, built the wife a big house, car in her name, supported 2 of her kids who still live with us, however all of my assets are abroad and I have a prenuptial agreement there so she is entitled to nothing, that said, I do have a will and that is her windfall.

 

The above said, in any relationship, if the guy is willing to hand everything over in the name of love, then he is putting all of his eggs in one basket and is asking to be taken down, regardless of stupid laws.

 

Plan B has always been a single ticket back to the old country to live off of my life savings if things ever went pare shape, alternatively I could move within Thailand on some eastern seafront and hand pick a few pretties to sooth my bruised ego ????

 

The above said, 14 years for 10% of my worth sounds like a fare arrangement if we split, e.g. there is no way in the world she could have lived the life she has lived without me supporting her and no way she could have afforded to build such a house and have a car paid off, did I say sounds like a fare arrangement, yep, I feel good with that, better if I departed in the marriage so she gets the lot in the end.

 

I see it as 14 years of rent that is not going down the drain as they say.

 

 

[chrisandsu]

On 1/14/2021 at 4:15 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Why wouldn’t the family be in an area where there is good education for kids ?

 

This wouldn’t be making the assumption that every girl who marries a foreigner comes from some backwater deep in the countryside, would it?

 

 

Plenty of families come from Bangkok where there are excellent international schools. 

Chiang Mai and Phuket also have good international schools. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are having to front all the money then yes she is most likely destitute and doesn’t have much to offer . Get her to get a mortgage in her name and you front the payments . If she has a job that shouldn’t be a problem surely ? 

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

If you are having to front all the money then yes she is most likely destitute and doesn’t have much to offer . Get her to get a mortgage in her name and you front the payments . If she has a job that shouldn’t be a problem surely ? 

 

If, as you say, she’s destitute, its unlikely she’ll qualify for a mortgage...   

 

 

[chrisandsu]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

If, as you say, she’s destitute, its unlikely she’ll qualify for a mortgage...   

 

 

I think you missed the point . If she can’t afford her own mortgage with you having to front the money to buy a house then she is as good as a backwater rice grower . I would absolutely never buy a house for cash and put it in someone else’s name . Only a fool would do that . No matter what her social status is . 

[smutcakes]

22 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Would anyone buy a house for their girlfriend like that in the UK? 

 

What is the compulsion farang men seem to have when they come here to buy / build houses for their gf's? Is it to bribe the woman to stay with them, like they own them something? 

 

Seems really dumb to me, especially more relationships here end in separation. Might as well just give her the cash. 

 

Well yes of course its a bribe. In most cases the Thai lady is not with the fat old farang because she fancies him, she is with him out of necessity and the financial support he can give her and her family.

 

Why the hell would she waste her best years rolling around with some fatty mess who could never pull a bird in his home country, if she is not going to get something out of the arrangement.

[madmen]

7 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

Well yes of course its a bribe. In most cases the Thai lady is not with the fat old farang because she fancies him, she is with him out of necessity and the financial support he can give her and her family.

 

Why the hell would she waste her best years rolling around with some fatty mess who could never pull a bird in his home country, if she is not going to get something out of the arrangement.

Mine is different 

[petermik]

7 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

Well yes of course its a bribe. In most cases the Thai lady is not with the fat old farang because she fancies him, she is with him out of necessity and the financial support he can give her and her family.

 

Why the hell would she waste her best years rolling around with some fatty mess who could never pull a bird in his home country, if she is not going to get something out of the arrangement.

Maybe she has genuine feelings for him,ever thought about that,it does happen even over here.....don,t use your experiences as a benchmark for others....

[polpott]

On 1/14/2021 at 7:38 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Usufruct.

Not available to foreigners in Pattaya.

[pagallim]

I bought my house 13 years ago (or at least the company that owned the house).   After a few years (about 3 from recollection) I became tired of paying annual accountants and other fees for the company so my wife resigned as a director of the company, the house was transferred to her and at the very same time in the Land Office, the house was leased to me for 30 years at a pepporcorn rent (i.e. below the amount for which she would be liable for income tax).

[smutcakes]

53 minutes ago, petermik said:

Maybe she has genuine feelings for him,ever thought about that,it does happen even over here.....don,t use your experiences as a benchmark for others....

I am sure some do, but i dont think many women the world over want to literally live their whole life renting and never build up any security or assets. I know i would not, and i know most men here have bought assets, yet somehow Thai women should be happy with just living day to day, with the man free to up and leave whenever they like leaving them nothing.

 

Thats why its an arrangement. The man gets to hump  a women of the caliber of looks and body wise he would never have a cat and hells chance of in his home country, and as a reward for this largely unpleasant task, the lady expects some security and assets for her time, otherwise i can see why they would move on. It makes no sense not to.

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

The thing is, this was all done amicably. All persons involved wife and family, lawyers, bureaucrats are fully aware that I, a foreigner, cannot own Thailand land. They also know I, as a foreigner, need protection of my money (a house is a considerable sum). And, they all were straight forward, and, a Usufruct is the method used in Nonthaburi to protect my asset. Consider a loophole.

I recommend to have a look at this section in the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code:

Quote

Section 1469.  Any agreement (post-nuptial) concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.

The usufruct with your wife is worthless. You paid 50k THB for nothing and were most likely just given wrong information by your lawyers so that you pay them.

Your wife can just declare the usufruct void and kick you out of the house any time she wants.

[The Man Who Sold the World]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

 

Your wife can just declare the usufruct void and kick you out of the house any time she wants.

 

Well there armchair foreign thai attorney jackdd, I thank you for your professional legal opinion. Now, If you will just provide me with a copy of your Thai Legal License I will give your opinion all of the attention it deserves. ???? 

[jackdd]

1 minute ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

 

Well there armchair foreign thai attorney jackdd, I thank you for your professional legal opinion. Now, If you will just provide me with a copy of your Thai Legal License I will give your opinion all of the attention it deserves. ???? 

I presented you with a fact backed by a reference, not with an opinion.

You are of course free to ignore it and continue to believe your usufruct is worth anything.

But maybe other people here would like to be informed about such facts before being taken out.

[ThomasThBKK]

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

If you are married already a usufruct is worthless.

The best solution is to let her buy the house in her name with a mortage, and you can help to pay the monthly rates like you would pay rent somewhere else.

 

Not if the usufruct is done between the NOW LAND owner and you.

 

The only thing useless is a usufruct between YOU and YOUR WIFE, as contracts between married couples are meaningless.

 

But a contract between an unrelated third party landowner and you will survive a divorce.

 

Another useful tool besides the usufruct is a superficies (right to own buildings). 

 

 

 

[ThomasThBKK]

23 minutes ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

 

Well there armchair foreign thai attorney jackdd, I thank you for your professional legal opinion. Now, If you will just provide me with a copy of your Thai Legal License I will give your opinion all of the attention it deserves. ???? 

 

He is correct, but the usufruct does not need to be between u and your wife.

 

Quote

Contracts in a Thai marriage

'Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith is not affected thereby'.

https://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/thai-marriage-and-contracts-between-husband-and-wife.html#:~:text=Contracts in a Thai marriage&text='Any agreement concluded between husband,faith is not affected thereby'.

[chrisandsu]

25 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I presented you with a fact backed by a reference, not with an opinion.

You are of course free to ignore it and continue to believe your usufruct is worth anything.

But maybe other people here would like to be informed about such facts before being taken out.

He’s too busy listening to legal advise that was most likely a degree that was bought . 

[VyacheslavKHV]

Lease, Usufruct, Superficies, could be options. It depends on your particular situation and your local land department rules.