Analysis - Trump's legacy: A more divided America, a more unsettled world

[candide]

On 1/21/2021 at 3:23 PM, kingdong said:

What and "science" at the time had a clear and united view on corona?remember everyone on the forum waxing lyrically about the " sweden experement " ,and look at what a roaring sucess that turned out to be.

 

32 minutes ago, kingdong said:

How about anyone in the hospitality buisness,anyone in the retail buisness,shops as opposed to online,theatres,restaurants and every one whos income stopped or was severely diminished by covid these were the " everyone " people i was referring too,said in context it was obvious to whom i was referring,so all these people are trump supporters?

Lame try! Your initial post was about "everyone on the forum". On this forum, it was mainly Trump supporters!

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, candide said:

 

Lame try! Your initial post was about "everyone on the forum". On this forum, it was mainly Trump supporters!

So the forum consists of mainly trump supporters?

[candide]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

So the forum consists of mainly trump supporters?

Those who were downplaying the seriousness of the pandemic, were against lockdown, against wearing mask etc... were mainly Trump supporters.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, candide said:

Those who were downplaying the seriousness of the pandemic, were against lockdown, against wearing mask etc... were mainly Trump supporters.

And the Trump supporters can't wrap their heads around this.  Sadly, they are still getting their fake news from far right media outlets.  Doubt they'll ever come back to reality, instead of alternative facts.

[J Town]

49 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

And the Trump supporters can't wrap their heads around this.  Sadly, they are still getting their fake news from far right media outlets.  Doubt they'll ever come back to reality, instead of alternative facts.

Occasionally I venture over to the dark side (Fox/Newsmax/OAN) just to see what the enemy is up to, and I mean "enemy" literally. The blatant lies are revolting. Rand Paul was recently attacking President Joe Biden (doesn't that sound SO much better?) for speaking up against white supremacists. For people not understanding how frightening, how disgusting this is, well that's a foundational problem with the US. Defending white supremacists - shake my head!

[Jeffr2]

19 minutes ago, J Town said:

Occasionally I venture over to the dark side (Fox/Newsmax/OAN) just to see what the enemy is up to, and I mean "enemy" literally. The blatant lies are revolting. Rand Paul was recently attacking President Joe Biden (doesn't that sound SO much better?) for speaking up against white supremacists. For people not understanding how frightening, how disgusting this is, well that's a foundational problem with the US. Defending white supremacists - shake my head!

Rand Paul is a disgusting individual.  As are many of the other members of the GOP.

[J Town]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

Rand Paul is a disgusting individual.  As are many of the other members of the GOP.

The older I get, the more involved I get in politics, the more disgusted I am with the GOP. The fact that they're almost all old white guys is the first clue. Then listening to them lie, lie, lie, then lie some more is revolting. The good thing is they're OLD white guys, a dying breed. This new cabinet is beyond refreshing. For President Biden to nominate a transgender doctor (Rachel Levine) as Assistant Health Secretary wouldn't even have been a thought 20 years ago.

 

The Democratic party represents the face of America. The Republican party represents the old guard that is finally dying out.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, J Town said:

The older I get, the more involved I get in politics, the more disgusted I am with the GOP. The fact that they're almost all old white guys is the first clue. Then listening to them lie, lie, lie, then lie some more is revolting. The good thing is they're OLD white guys, a dying breed. This new cabinet is beyond refreshing. For President Biden to nominate a transgender doctor (Rachel Levine) as Assistant Health Secretary wouldn't even have been a thought 20 years ago.

 

The Democratic party represents the face of America. The Republican party represents the old guard that is finally dying out.

I was a republican for most of my life.  Kinda still am, though registered as an independent.  Now the biggest party.

 

The problem with the GOP is they are letting the base drive their decisions just to get elected.  Like with election fraud.  How about instead of saying "my constituents don't believe it was fair" to them publicly stating that it WAS fair.  Kinda the tail wagging the dog here....sucks.

[J Town]

6 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I was a republican for most of my life.  Kinda still am, though registered as an independent.  Now the biggest party.

 

The problem with the GOP is they are letting the base drive their decisions just to get elected.  Like with election fraud.  How about instead of saying "my constituents don't believe it was fair" to them publicly stating that it WAS fair.  Kinda the tail wagging the dog here....sucks.

Joe (Morning Joe) Scarborough served in the United States House of Representatives from 1995 to 2001 as a Republican for Florida's 1st district. I recently heard him say he voted his conscience while serving and spent a LOT of time discussing his thoughts with his constituents. It was difficult to say the least, and you'll always have those pudding brains that can't see logic, but for the most part he was respected and he slept well at night.

 

These ... sycophants currently in the GOP can't be bothered to do the right thing, it's easier to sell your soul and rake in the corporate donations.

Edited January 24, 2021 by onthedarkside
trolling comment removed

[Jeffr2]

And the hits just keep rolling.  What's wrong with these people?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/23/us/politics/arizona-censure-flake-mccain-ducey.html

 

Arizona G.O.P. Censures Three Top Members Criticized by Trump Loyalists

 

The party rebuked Gov. Doug Ducey, former Senator Jeff Flake and Cindy McCain, all of whom have been criticized by some Trump supporters as insufficiently loyal to the former president.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/23/2021 at 9:21 AM, heybruce said:

Is this the latest from Qanon?

Wherever it's from, it'll give CNN ( and certain posters on here ) something to rant about incessantly for the next two years.

Resist 46.

[J Town]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

insufficiently loyal

Isn't that a term reserved for royalty and NOT politicians? I had a previous supervisor, crooked as a dog's hind leg, and he asked me that very question: "Are you loyal to me?" Of COURSE I lied through my teeth and found another job asap!

[Jeffr2]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Wherever it's from, it'll give CNN ( and certain posters on here ) something to rant about incessantly for the next two years.

Resist 46.

Why resist?  That shows why we're having problems.   We're all in this together.  Give the guy a chance.  It's desperate times in the US, this doesn't help.

Edited January 24, 2021 by onthedarkside
personal comment removed

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Why resist?  That shows why we're having problems.   We're all in this together.  Give the guy a chance.  It's desperate times in the US, this doesn't help.

Perhaps you have forgotten when some posters always ended with "resist 45".

Seems some don't like it when it's returned to them, though they relished the "resistance" to Trump.

What goes around comes around.

[J Town]

5 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Resist 46.

Why resist?  That shows why we're having problems.   We're all in this together.  Give the guy a chance.  It's desperate times in the US, this doesn't help.

Against my better judgement, I honestly tried to get behind 45 out of respect for the office. Within the first month I saw based on his actions what a horrible man he was and it only got worse from there.

 

That "resist 46" is easily the most ridiculous thing I've recently seen. It reeks of childish impudence. "If I can't get my way, then I'll just go out to the back yard and eat worms."

 

If Biden screws something up, then hold him accountable, an adjective sadly missing in today's politics.

[Jeffr2]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps you have forgotten when some posters always ended with "resist 45".

Seems some don't like it when it's returned to them, though they relished the "resistance" to Trump.

What goes around comes around.

You can't compare Trump to Biden. Impossible.

 

So other than revenge, which is childish, why resist?

[bob999999]

Opinions are divided and will remain that way for a long time.  But this is true and will always be true:

 

It is not the critic who is remembered.  It is not the one who points out how the doer stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.  History belongs to the person who actually gets into the arena; the one who strives valiantly; the one who wins and succeeds; the one who fails and comes short - because there can be no success without error and shortcoming.

The credit always goes to the doer who actually strives to do the deeds; the one who knows great enthusiasms, knows great devotion; who spends themselves fully in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if they fail, then fails while daring greatly. History always belongs to the person who gets into the arena. Their place in history shall never be with those cold and timid souls who only criticise; the credit never goes to those who can never truly know victory or defeat.

Many will say that person was wrong, and many will say that person was right. But in the end that person will be remembered, and it is history that will decide whether they were right or wrong - not the critics.

 

[bob999999]

30 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Why resist?  That shows why we're having problems.  People like you.  We're all in this together.  Give the guy a chance.  It's desperate times in the US, this doesn't help.

I cannot recall this approach after Trump won. Maybe I am getting old.

 

[bob999999]

14 minutes ago, J Town said:

Against my better judgement, I honestly tried to get behind 45 out of respect for the office. Within the first month I saw based on his actions what a horrible man he was and it only got worse from there.

 

That "resist 46" is easily the most ridiculous thing I've recently seen. It reeks of childish impudence. "If I can't get my way, then I'll just go out to the back yard and eat worms."

 

If Biden screws something up, then hold him accountable, an adjective sadly missing in today's politics.

That 'resist' approach s exactly what Trump haters did for 4 years. Did you also condem them as "childish impudence?

 

 

[Jeffr2]

14 minutes ago, J Town said:

Against my better judgement, I honestly tried to get behind 45 out of respect for the office. Within the first month I saw based on his actions what a horrible man he was and it only got worse from there.

 

That "resist 46" is easily the most ridiculous thing I've recently seen. It reeks of childish impudence. "If I can't get my way, then I'll just go out to the back yard and eat worms."

 

If Biden screws something up, then hold him accountable, an adjective sadly missing in today's politics.

I lived in NYC for some time, so have known about Trump and his BS for decades.  Many of us there were stunned he became president considering all the stuff that was well known about him. 

 

But...like you....I gave him a chance.  It wasn't easy, especially considering his first lie about the size of his inauguration...amplified by Sean Spicer.  Another disgusting individual who lied to the American people.

 

I gave up after a month of lies and hate speech towards others.  Impossible to support a man like that.

 

As you say, if Biden screws up, hold him accountable.  Sadly, Trump supporters give their team a pass on this, while bitchin** about the other side.  Boggles my mind.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 minutes ago, J Town said:

Against my better judgement, I honestly tried to get behind 45 out of respect for the office. Within the first month I saw based on his actions what a horrible man he was and it only got worse from there.

 

That "resist 46" is easily the most ridiculous thing I've recently seen. It reeks of childish impudence. "If I can't get my way, then I'll just go out to the back yard and eat worms."

 

If Biden screws something up, then hold him accountable, an adjective sadly missing in today's politics.

I don't recall a single post from you commenting about "resist 45".

[J Town]

Just now, bob999999 said:

That 'resist' approach s exactly what Trump haters did for 4 years. Did you also condemn them as "childish impudence?

 

You're new, so you probably haven't seen my traditional response to someone trying to label me as a "Trump hater." Adults capable of critical thinking don't hate the man, we hate the behavior:

 

1. 45 doesn't read books nor security briefings.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/americas-first-post-text-president/549794/

2. Doesn't honorably pay his bills.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-45-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

3. 45 gleefully described how he uses his fame to grope and harass women.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-10-07/hot-mic-catches-donald-45-bragging-about-sexual-assault

4. 45 has openly endorsed violent retaliation against people who disrupt his rallies, offering to pay their legal fees.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-45-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html

5. Direct quote: "I could shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/24/donald-45-says-he-could-shoot-somebody-and-still-not-lose-voters

6. 45 shared a hilarious story about not wanting to help a dying man.
https://www.gq.com/story/donald-45-howard-stern-story

7. Lied about seeing thousands in New Jersey cheering when World Trade Center tumbled.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/nov/22/donald-45/fact-checking-45s-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/

8. 45 told security to take protesters' coats: 'Throw them out into the cold'.
https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/265172-45-tells-security-to-confiscate-protesters-coats

9. 45 is removing expertise from all levels of government.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/03/how-45-is-changing-science-environment/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/climate/45-administration-war-on-science.html
https://civilrights.org/45-rollbacks/

10. 45 is profiting from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as president, including overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, a direct violation of the emoluments clause.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/20/45-businesses-empire-tied-presidency-100496
https://www.businessinsider.com/45-charges-secret-service-for-protection-hotel-properties-report-2020-2

11. His policies have separated children from their families while managing to lose track of over 1500 kids.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/28/us/45-immigrant-children-lost.html

12. Demonstrated Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress for which he was impeached.
https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/116th-congress/house-report/346/1

13. 45 paid Court-Ordered $2 Million For illegally using 45 Foundation Funds.
https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/donald-j-45-pays-court-ordered-2-million-illegally-using-45-foundation

14. 45 quote: “[Biden] was only a good vice president because he figured out how to kiss Barack Obama’s ass.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/45-attacks-bidens-in-personal-and-coarse-terms-at-minnesota-rally/2019/10/10/3c2304c2-ebc6-11e9-9c6d-436a0df4f31d_story.html

15. 45 attacked Democratic Rep. Debbie Dingell and her late husband, Rep. John Dingell, during a rally on Wednesday, implying the former congressman was "looking up" from hell.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/18/politics/45-rally-john-dingell-hell/index.html

16. Called for the assassination of an Iranian military leader and lied about the reason.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/45-case-for-killing-soleimani-iran-lies.html

17. 45 fired people who testified against him.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alexander-vindman-gordon-sondland-45-white-house-ukraine-impeachment-latest-a9324531.html

18. Has been firing Inspector Generals for suspect motives. In two cases, questions were raised about whether the dismissals related to ongoing IG investigations into the conduct of the cabinet secretary in charge of that department. The cumulative firings are often described as a "purge" or as a "war on watchdogs".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_dismissal_of_inspectors_general#:~:text=On Friday%2C May 15%2C at,Secretary of State Mike Pompeo

19. Declared the Covid-19 a "Democratic hoax" AFTER having been warned for months by his advisers how this was going to be a serious problem, resulting in unnecessary deaths.
https://www.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=007115

20. Had U.S. citizens gassed and flash bombed so he could pose for a phony photo op. The church pastor vehemently condemned this act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_45_photo_op_at_St._John's_Church
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/45-st-johns-church-visit-staging-bishop-mariann-budde/

21. Said "George Floyd is looking down from heaven and appreciating the great day in terms of equality."
https://news.knowledia.com/US/en/articles/45-suggests-george-floyd-is-looking-down-from-heaven-and-e7241a79a337a52aea47eb87182b4675b02eb3aa

22. Interfered in the Georgia election.
https://www.thedailyworld.com/news/new-reports-describe-more-ways-trump-tried-to-meddle-in-georgia-election/
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/595

This is by no means the complete list, just a taste of why we think 45 is scum.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, bob999999 said:

That 'resist' approach s exactly what Trump haters did for 4 years. Did you also condem them as "childish impudence?

 

 

But, but, but it's was different when Trump was president- he was such a bad man, and Biden is destined for sainthood and can do no wrong!

[J Town]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't recall a single post from you commenting about "resist 45".

Yes, I don't post emotional rhetoric, I post facts. Your point?

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

But, but, but it's was different when Trump was president- he was such a bad man, and Biden is destined for sainthood and can do no wrong!

Great!  You're finally coming around.

[Jeffr2]

17 minutes ago, bob999999 said:

That 'resist' approach s exactly what Trump haters did for 4 years. Did you also condem them as "childish impudence?

 

 

Come on.  Why would it be childish to resist a president who lied and spewed hate filled messages every day?  IMPOSSIBLE to compare to Biden.  Though his ardent fans try. 

[Thomas J]

On 1/20/2021 at 4:01 AM, webfact said:

Trump leaves behind an even more polarized America, where thousands are dying daily from the COVID-19 pandemic, the economy is badly damaged and political violence has surged.

 

Unquestionably one of the most biased synopsis I have ever read. 

Trump was hardly a perfect person, but then again neither is Joe Biden, nor Barack Obama, or George Bush. 

In terms of the economy the author seems to want to lay the blame on Trump  Conveniently forgetting that the economy was the best in decades and for minority groups unemployment the lowest in history.  The coronavirus not Trump is to blame for the slumping economy which is shared by every country around the world.  The same is true for the deficit.  Perhaps the authors should study who spends money in the USA system.  It is not the president.  Trump can only approve what the House and Senate agrees to in a spending bill.  So where is the blame for the Democrats then and in fairness the Republican congressman who voted to spend the trillions of dollars running up the deficit.  Had Trump not signed the bill I suggest these same authors would be blaming him for being heartless and not doing anything to repair the USA economy.

As for political violence Trump uttered a few words which his detractors said led to violence at the Capital.  Again conveniently omitted were the following words from Trump during that speech. "“I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”"

 

 I did not hear any attributions of the rhetoric to ramp up political violence when Barrack Obama said. "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun"   I find those words far more egregious and causing political hatred and violence than anything Trump has ever said.  I also see nothing mentioned of people like Maxine Waters who stood in front of a crowd telling them to openly confront Republican cabinet members wherever they spotted them in public.  Again, I find that far more confrontational rhetoric. 

As to the violence, there was the incident at the Capital where it was reported that Trump supporters were responsible.  I see nothing with respect to the violence in Minneapolis, Chicago,  Seattle, Portland, Detroit, Dallas, etc by those who were certainly not supporters of Trump and the violence both more prolonged and more destructive.  Those were done by groups receiving praise from the Democrats.  

 

If people don't like Trump, that is fine, however it is so hypocritical to blame him for absolutely everything and not introspectively look at what others did to both fan the flames of racial and political divide.  

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by onthedarkside
clips with no source stated or link given removed by Mod

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, bob999999 said:

Opinions are divided and will remain that way for a long time.  But this is true and will always be true:

 

It is not the critic who is remembered.  It is not the one who points out how the doer stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.  History belongs to the person who actually gets into the arena; the one who strives valiantly; the one who wins and succeeds; the one who fails and comes short - because there can be no success without error and shortcoming.

The credit always goes to the doer who actually strives to do the deeds; the one who knows great enthusiasms, knows great devotion; who spends themselves fully in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if they fail, then fails while daring greatly. History always belongs to the person who gets into the arena. Their place in history shall never be with those cold and timid souls who only criticise; the credit never goes to those who can never truly know victory or defeat.

Many will say that person was wrong, and many will say that person was right. But in the end that person will be remembered, and it is history that will decide whether they were right or wrong - not the critics.

 

Yes, Trump and his mob will always be remembered as the ones who tried to end democracy and rule of law in America.

[Sheryl]

A post has been edited to remove 2 clips the source of which was not shown.

[bob999999]

31 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yes, Trump and his mob will always be remembered as the ones who tried to end democracy and rule of law in America.

Only by Trump hating critics will that view be held. 

History will view it very differently me thinks.