44 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

So no tweets from Trump then. 

Check the link to the source:  The first item is a tweet.  Not that it's important; stirring up insurrection by speeches, social media, or any other means is criminal and grounds for impeachment.

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

So long as tens of millions of followers believe Trump's lies, he can do harm.  Also, he wasn't elected with a majority the in 2016 and won't need one for an attempted comeback.  Congress, the US Constitution, and state laws already restrict who can run for office.

 

Quick...  If you were a Senator who knew Trump egged on an insurrection and deserved to be impeached, but was afraid of all the voters who believed Trump's lies, what would you do?  You don't figure there's any conflict of interest?

 

And you figure impeaching him will convince those 10s of millions?  Bad news.  It'll have the opposite effect.

 

Bringing us back around to the title of the thread...  Biden doesn't want to end the uncivil war.  He wants to win it.

 

12 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

And you figure impeaching him will convince those 10s of millions?  Bad news.  It'll have the opposite effect.

 

Bringing us back around to the title of the thread...  Biden doesn't want to end the uncivil war.  He wants to win it.

 

That's hilarious.

Lincoln didn't want to end the civil war. He wanted to win it. 

 

Paraphrasing something I heard -- republicans complaining that impeaching Mr. trump is not promoting the unity Biden is championing is like an orphan complaining that he's an orphan after murdering his parents. It doesn't wash. 

 

Reconciliation? Yes. But you don't get to skip ahead. It's a long and painful process. First you need truth and justice. A majority of republicans still believe the election was stolen. That's not a side that is based on any kind of truth and reality. You can't ever obtain a real and lasting reconciliation with a population that is hanging on to such extreme misinformation. 

10 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

And you figure impeaching him will convince those 10s of millions?  Bad news.  It'll have the opposite effect.

 

Bringing us back around to the title of the thread...  Biden doesn't want to end the uncivil war.  He wants to win it.

 

Impeachment is for the benefit of posterity; a President who encourages insurrection after losing his re-election should be impeached, barred from future office, then face criminal prosecution.  Otherwise you send the message to future lame duck Presidents that there are no restrictions on what they do.

 

Biden has been noncommittal on the subject of impeachment. 

29 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

And you figure impeaching him will convince those 10s of millions?  Bad news.  It'll have the opposite effect.

 

Bringing us back around to the title of the thread...  Biden doesn't want to end the uncivil war.  He wants to win it.

 

 

Why didn't Trump pardon his pro-Trump rioters?

Capitol Rioters Were Among Those Who Held Out Hope For A Trump Pardon And Didn’t Get It – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)

2 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

Why didn't Trump pardon his pro-Trump rioters?

I'll answer. Because he figures that would make his conviction in the senate more likely and also aggravate other potential cases, including civil ones of families of victims of the insurrection. 

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Impeachment is for the benefit of posterity; a President who encourages insurrection after losing his re-election should be impeached, barred from future office, then face criminal prosecution.  Otherwise you send the message to future lame duck Presidents that there are no restrictions on what they do.

 

Biden has been noncommittal on the subject of impeachment. 

He's been noncommital for a good reason: he knows that the Senate will never vote to convict. Democrats who believe otherwise are, in a milder way, as delusional as Republicans who believed that the election of Biden would somehow be reversed. Republican Senators read the polls. They're not politically suicidal. They know that Trump is still hugely popular among Republicans. They've seen the electoral threats Cheney and others in the House who voted for impeachment now face. Mitch McConnell is just leading the Democrats on. As for disqualifying Trump from running again...another bad move. It will just be used by Republicans to show that Democrats don't trust the electorate.

At the very least, Democrats should delay the trial in the Senate. Biden says he's willing to see a delay. That's his way of saying stop this distraction which will end in failure.

12 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Impeachment is for the benefit of posterity; a President who encourages insurrection after losing his re-election should be impeached, barred from future office, then face criminal prosecution.  Otherwise you send the message to future lame duck Presidents that there are no restrictions on what they do.

 

Biden has been noncommittal on the subject of impeachment. 

Yes, you're right. That's the correct position for President Biden to take. He doesn't impeach. Congress does. 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

He's been noncommital for a good reason: he knows that the Senate will never vote to convict. Democrats who believe otherwise are, in a milder way, as delusional as Republicans who believed that the election of Biden would somehow be reversed. Republican Senators read the polls. They're not politically suicidal. They know that Trump is still hugely popular among Republicans. They've seen the electoral threats Cheney and others in the House who voted for impeachment now face. Mitch McConnell is just leading the Democrats on. As for disqualifying Trump from running again...another bad move. It will just be used by Republicans to show that Democrats don't trust the electorate.

At the very least, Democrats should delay the trial in the Senate. Biden says he's willing to see a delay. That's his way of saying stop this distraction which will end in failure.

I agree a conviction is unlikely. It has never happened even once in U.S. history to a president or ex-president. But I still think that congress needed to impeach him anyway. That's a message to history of what kind of president trump was, impeached twice, clearly the worst president in history. A horrible mistake that should never be repeated. The next time a fake populist demagogue con man such as trump appears on the scene, perhaps people will remember the damage that did before, in fact, it even came close to destroying American democracy. 

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Can you show us any of these tweets, Bill?

Here's a few.  Trump is a nasty individual.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/19/upshot/trump-complete-insult-list.html#

 

 

 

The Complete List of Trump’s Twitter Insults (2015-2021)

By Kevin QuealyJan. 19, 2021

As a political figure, Donald J. Trump used Twitter to praise, to cajole, to entertain, to lobby, to establish his version of events — and, perhaps most notably, to amplify his scorn. This list documents the verbal attacks Mr. Trump posted on Twitter, from when he declared his candidacy in June 2015 to Jan. 8, when Twitter permanently barred him. More recent insults are highlighted.

 

 

15 hours ago, PattayaJames said:

 

You must be joking.

The above listed "credible sources" are full of left wing lies and misinformation. 

They will hype or bury a story based on their bias political narrative.

 

People see them doing it every day. They are no longer trusted.

 

Media trust hits new low: https://www.axios.com/media-trust-crisis-2bf0ec1c-00c0-4901-9069-e26b21c283a9.html

 

56% of Americans agree with the statement that "Journalists and reporters are purposely trying to mislead people by saying things they know are false or gross exaggerations."

 

58% think that "most news organizations are more concerned with supporting an ideology or political position than with informing the public."

 

Sad times when someone bashes The NY Times.  One of the best media outlets there is with fantastic investigative journalism.  Your statement (and your posts) show your political bias. 

 

Media trust hits new lows because of Trump's bashing of credible sites.  So he can discredit the bad reports on him.  And you've fallen for it. 

 

And yet, you couldn't come up with an example.  Just deflect.  Figures.

8 hours ago, impulse said:

 

The USA has a process for that.  We call it an election.  We let the people decide who to cancel.  Not a bunch of partisan politicians.

And yet a substantial number of Trump's supporters don't think he lost.  And members of congress are still saying the same thing....or at least discrediting the process.  Talk about partisan politicians and citizens.  As the title says, we must end this uncivil war.  We're all in this together.

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

And you figure impeaching him will convince those 10s of millions?  Bad news.  It'll have the opposite effect.

 

Bringing us back around to the title of the thread...  Biden doesn't want to end the uncivil war.  He wants to win it.

 

Stop posting misinformation.  Show where Biden says he wants to win the civil war.  NOWHERE.  Are you so politically biased that you can't get behind the POTUS to try and bring the country together?  Stunning....no wonder we're in such a mess.

From the OP:

 

"We must end this uncivil war that pits red against blue, rural versus urban, conservative versus liberal. We can do this - if we open our souls instead of hardening our hearts."

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Check the link to the source:  The first item is a tweet.  Not that it's important; stirring up insurrection by speeches, social media, or any other means is criminal and grounds for impeachment.

 

I did. The first one was a quote, not a tweet. It did not stir up insurrection nor condone violence. 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Reconciliation? Yes. But you don't get to skip ahead. It's a long and painful process. First you need truth and justice. A majority of republicans still believe the election was stolen.

Truth and reconciliation? Meaning you are absolutely certain all your viewpoints are accurate and correct?

 

 Just my thoughts on the matter, but you could strap me into a chair and feed me 24/7 propaganda of your choosing, but I will never believe that Trump was proven to have colluded with Russia to game the 2016 election, that Trump quid pro quo'd in the Ukraine more than Biden did, that the last years burning and looting and capturing entire city blocks by armed warlords was peaceful protest, that Jussie Smollett was attacked by 2 redneck white racists that epitomized Trump supporters and the MAGA movement, that Steve Scully was the gold standard of impartiality, and that the Russians faked a certain laptop and multi-way corroboration of the contents of said computer which led to the suspect media behaviour, draconian censorship and verge of civil unrest that we see now.

 

 Republicans will never stop believing the election was unfair but I am censored from discussing this matter, which does not make me believe your position and integrity more, in fact it does exactly the opposite. 

 

 Sorry, we just flat out disagree on so many things. Issues where you can not credibly prove the left's stance is correct - and the other wrong. It is possible winding back the censorship and accepting that perhaps the left got some things wrong over the last 4 years, and making moves to wind in unelected big tech titans power could help. But, I suspect the division is too wide now, and the farcical impeachment and left wanting an Orwellian " truth and reconciliation" drive is icing on the cake.

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Here's a few.  Trump is a nasty individual.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/19/upshot/trump-complete-insult-list.html#

 

 

 

The Complete List of Trump’s Twitter Insults (2015-2021)

By Kevin QuealyJan. 19, 2021

As a political figure, Donald J. Trump used Twitter to praise, to cajole, to entertain, to lobby, to establish his version of events — and, perhaps most notably, to amplify his scorn. This list documents the verbal attacks Mr. Trump posted on Twitter, from when he declared his candidacy in June 2015 to Jan. 8, when Twitter permanently barred him. More recent insults are highlighted.

 

 

 

I wonder why it took Twitter so long then?

2 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Truth and reconciliation? Meaning you are absolutely certain all your viewpoints are accurate and correct?

 

 Just my thoughts on the matter, but you could strap me into a chair and feed me 24/7 propaganda of your choosing, but I will never believe that Trump was proven to have colluded with Russia to game the 2016 election, that Trump quid pro quo'd in the Ukraine more than Biden did, that the last years burning and looting and capturing entire city blocks by armed warlords was peaceful protest, that Jussie Smollett was attacked by 2 redneck white racists that epitomized Trump supporters and the MAGA movement, that Steve Scully was the gold standard of impartiality, and that the Russians faked a certain laptop and multi-way corroboration of the contents of said computer which led to the suspect media behaviour, draconian censorship and verge of civil unrest that we see now.

 

 Republicans will never stop believing the election was unfair but I am censored from discussing this matter, which does not make me believe your position and integrity more, in fact it does exactly the opposite. 

 

 Sorry, we just flat out disagree on so many things. Issues where you can not credibly prove the left's stance is correct - and the other wrong. It is possible winding back the censorship and accepting that perhaps the left got some things wrong over the last 4 years, and making moves to wind in unelected big tech titans power could help. But, I suspect the division is too wide now, and the farcical impeachment and left wanting an Orwellian " truth and reconciliation" drive is icing on the cake.

You've drank the koolaid.  Shows why the US is in such a mess.  People don't like the truth.

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

 

I wonder why it took Twitter so long then?

They made a bunch of money....

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

You've drank the koolaid.  Shows why the US is in such a mess.  People don't like the truth.

My point was there are 2 sides to every issue. Where does the real "truth" lie? Somewhere in between or all on the left's side? Which is why "truth and reconciliation" councils to reprogram Trump supporters brains is a tad controversial.

22 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Truth and reconciliation? Meaning you are absolutely certain all your viewpoints are accurate and correct?

 

 Just my thoughts on the matter, but you could strap me into a chair and feed me 24/7 propaganda of your choosing, but I will never believe that Trump was proven to have colluded with Russia to game the 2016 election, that Trump quid pro quo'd in the Ukraine more than Biden did, that the last years burning and looting and capturing entire city blocks by armed warlords was peaceful protest, that Jussie Smollett was attacked by 2 redneck white racists that epitomized Trump supporters and the MAGA movement, that Steve Scully was the gold standard of impartiality, and that the Russians faked a certain laptop and multi-way corroboration of the contents of said computer which led to the suspect media behaviour, draconian censorship and verge of civil unrest that we see now.

 

 Republicans will never stop believing the election was unfair but I am censored from discussing this matter, which does not make me believe your position and integrity more, in fact it does exactly the opposite. 

 

 Sorry, we just flat out disagree on so many things. Issues where you can not credibly prove the left's stance is correct - and the other wrong. It is possible winding back the censorship and accepting that perhaps the left got some things wrong over the last 4 years, and making moves to wind in unelected big tech titans power could help. But, I suspect the division is too wide now, and the farcical impeachment and left wanting an Orwellian " truth and reconciliation" drive is icing on the cake.

Do you think that Russia did not interfere in the 2016 election, that Trump did not hire people with dodgy Russia connections to work on his campaign, and that Don Jr did not meet with a Russian lawyer to get dirt on Trump?  If so, you are in denial of reality.

 

If you don't see the clear quid pro quo in Trump's "do us a favor" phone call with the Ukrainian President, you are in denial of reality.

 

If you think anyone said that those who committed violent attacks during the summer protests were peacefully protesting, you are in denial of reality. 

 

And so on.  You are in denial.

 

BTW:  You are not prevented from presenting credible evidence that the election was stolen, just as Trump's lawyers were never prevented from doing the same.  Yet it never happened.

10 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

My point was there are 2 sides to every issue. Where does the real "truth" lie? Somewhere in between or all on the left's side? Which is why "truth and reconciliation" councils to reprogram Trump supporters brains is a tad controversial.

The truth is revealed with facts, not alternative facts.

11 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

My point was there are 2 sides to every issue. Where does the real "truth" lie? Somewhere in between or all on the left's side? Which is why "truth and reconciliation" councils to reprogram Trump supporters brains is a tad controversial.

Yeah, but your side just follows the conspiracy theories and dog whistles from the alt right.  Ukraine, Russia, etc.  You have a twisted view of reality.

 

I'm not going to get into it with you because it'd be a waste of time.  You just don't get it.

3 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Well, joseph is off to the expected start in ending this uncivil war ...

 

2 days ...

- 60,000 jobs destroyed.
- U.S. gas and oil industry being destroyed.
- Women's sports destroyed. 
- Troops forced to sleep in parking garages.
- Ramping up Middle East wars again already. 
vs
But President Trump's tweets were hurting my special little feelings.

Specific claims made without any substantiation, and denial that Trump's tweets, speeches, and lies about a stolen election have anything to do with the insurrection.  Typical Trump supporter.

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The truth is revealed with facts, not alternative facts.

Sadly, they don't understand this in their world of "alternative facts".

6 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Well, joseph is off to the expected start in ending this uncivil war ...

 

2 days ...

- 60,000 jobs destroyed.
- U.S. gas and oil industry being destroyed.
- Women's sports destroyed. 
- Troops forced to sleep in parking garages.
- Ramping up Middle East wars again already. 
vs
But President Trump's tweets were hurting my special little feelings.

Still grieving. 

23 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I wonder why it took Twitter so long then?

Certainly not because Trump is vindictive and vengeful. And if you don't believe me, I'm sure Jeff Bezos would back me up in that.

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The truth is revealed with facts, not alternative facts.

Yes, the truth.  And I believe more truth will come out regarding what Trump had been up to.  For example, this new article discussed the pressure Trump was putting on his own DOJ to support his fake election fraud claims.  America is fortunate that the DOJ resisted to the end....

 

[Former President Donald Trump reportedly pressured the Justice Department to sign onto his “big lie” election fraud conspiracies after Bill Barr resigned and considered firing the replacement, acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, when he refused Trump’s repeated entreaties.]

 

[This pressure began the day after Barr resigned, the Times reports. On December 15th, Trump summoned Rosen to the White House and wasted no time in pushing him to have the DOJ sign onto his legal team’s baseless claims.]

 

[Only after a final, tense showdown on the weekend after New Year’s Day, in which DOJ officials again rebuffed the president and threatened to resign en masse, did Trump relent on his drive to use the Justice Department to somehow overturn the 2020 election.]

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nyt-bombshell-trump-repeatedly-pressured-doj-to-back-election-fraud-conspiracies-considered-firing-acting-ag-after-he-wouldn-t-comply/ar-BB1d0KR9?li=BB141NW3

 

13 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Do you think that Russia did not interfere in the 2016 election, that Trump did not hire people with dodgy Russia connections to work on his campaign, and that Don Jr did not meet with a Russian lawyer to get dirt on Trump?  If so, you are in denial of reality.

 

If you don't see the clear quid pro quo in Trump's "do us a favor" phone call with the Ukrainian President, you are in denial of reality.

 

If you think anyone said that those who committed violent attacks during the summer protests were peacefully protesting, you are in denial of reality. 

 

And so on.  You are in denial.

 

BTW:  You are not prevented from presenting credible evidence that the election was stolen, just as Trump's lawyers were never prevented from doing the same.  Yet it never happened.

Even the Republican Senate committee said in its report there was very strong evidence that Manafort conspired with the Russians. It' in the 5th volume of its report. Quite damning.

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's hilarious.

Lincoln didn't want to end the civil war. He wanted to win it. 

 

Paraphrasing something I heard -- republicans complaining that impeaching Mr. trump is not promoting the unity Biden is championing is like an orphan complaining that he's an orphan after murdering his parents. It doesn't wash. 

 

Reconciliation? Yes. But you don't get to skip ahead. It's a long and painful process. First you need truth and justice. A majority of republicans still believe the election was stolen. That's not a side that is based on any kind of truth and reality. You can't ever obtain a real and lasting reconciliation with a population that is hanging on to such extreme misinformation. 

A majority of Republicans still think the election was stolen?

 

I wonder why.