Thai address locator?

[mran66]

Is there any convenient way  or tool to find a location of a formal Thai address (other than go riding around the Moo xx and try to find the house xy/yx)?

 

Wonder how all the delivery companies and mailmen manage to find the place they deliver, do they have some tool for that or just local knowledge?

[allane]

Ask at the Post Office. They have maps.  

[timendres]

Google maps is a start, but certainly not 100%

It gets my townhouse correct.

[blackcab]

As far as I know, there isn't.

 

The key issue is that building numbers are not sequential like a lot of other countries. As you progress along a road, the building numbers do not progress also. Buildings are not numbered 2,4,6,8,10 etc or 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 in an orderly row.

 

Instead building numbers are issued in the order that the building was built. So building 1 could be half way down the road, while building 2 could be a kilometre away on the same road.

 

Added to this, when you apply for your building number, you can also ask to get an auspicious number if nobody has taken it yet. This is why you might see building number 555 on a small road that cannot possibly accommodate 554 other buildings.

 

As has been mentioned, the only people that know all the locations are Thai Post, although the electric and water meter readers will know the location if it is on their round.

 

Delivery companies get the driver to press a button on their smartphone the first time they deliver. For a delivery company such as Kerry, that GPS database has great value to them and any of their competition.

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

As far as I know, there isn't.

True for many reasons.

As you mentioned no sequential house nr.

In villages no rd. names, only moo ban nr. (ban lek ti).

We live in 340 moo 1, house of the sister on same plot is 8 moo 1.

 

And then: as long as there is no 100% consistent transcription rules for the original Thai names the job gets close to impossible if you try it in "English".

 

Google helps you for addresses that have been registered/published with location.

Rare for private addresses.

Edited January 22, 2021 by KhunBENQ

[mran66]

3 hours ago, blackcab said:

As far as I know, there isn't.

 

The key issue is that building numbers are not sequential like a lot of other countries. As you progress along a road, the building numbers do not progress also. Buildings are not numbered 2,4,6,8,10 etc or 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 in an orderly row.

 

Instead building numbers are issued in the order that the building was built. So building 1 could be half way down the road, while building 2 could be a kilometre away on the same road.

 

Added to this, when you apply for your building number, you can also ask to get an auspicious number if nobody has taken it yet. This is why you might see building number 555 on a small road that cannot possibly accommodate 554 other buildings.

 

As has been mentioned, the only people that know all the locations are Thai Post, although the electric and water meter readers will know the location if it is on their round.

 

Delivery companies get the driver to press a button on their smartphone the first time they deliver. For a delivery company such as Kerry, that GPS database has great value to them and any of their competition.

 

...and to make it even worse, it seems that same non-logic applies not only to house numbers within a mooban, but also to Moo numbers within a sub-district. Until today I kind of thought that the Moo numbers would be single areas. However today, when trying to locate a house in Moo 11 of Nongprue Pattaya, I learned that there are houses with that Moo address in (at least) two separate neighborhoods, several km and few other Moo areas between them (one I knew as Moo 11 area, the other I thought is some lower number Moo). Not sure if the Moo areas are as randomly located as the house numbers within a mooban, however the system is really nuts for any practical use.

 

Was trying to figure out what the history behind this kind of system is, just can't get it. Maybe it comes from some ancient land ownership structure and land registry numbers of that system from era where concept of address was not yet invented. The moo numbers were set based on whoever owned that particular piece of land 100's years ago so that if someone owned in two different locations, they both were given same Moo number. Nobody ever thought or bothered to  think that one day those would be used for purpose of identifying and finding a location.

 

Anyway, who knows, TIT.

 

On the other side, this is one of the best examples of so call 'Thai logic'  (i.e no logic) that even Thais say farang can not understand.

Edited January 22, 2021 by mran66

[allane]

Let's say you own a large plot of land; let's call it Lot 99. If you sell a small piece off of one corner tat becomes Lot 99/1.  If you later sell a piece of of the diagonally opposite corner, that piece becomes Lot 99/2.

I can't say with authority that the Thai system comes from Japan, but it is quite similar. Newly subdivided parcels are numbered in the order in which they are created. In some cases, this might mean  that the numbering makes sense when looking at a map, but does not make sense when driving down the roads, which may have been built later

[mran66]

3 hours ago, allane said:

Let's say you own a large plot of land; let's call it Lot 99. If you sell a small piece off of one corner tat becomes Lot 99/1.  If you later sell a piece of of the diagonally opposite corner, that piece becomes Lot 99/2.

I can't say with authority that the Thai system comes from Japan, but it is quite similar. Newly subdivided parcels are numbered in the order in which they are created. In some cases, this might mean  that the numbering makes sense when looking at a map, but does not make sense when driving down the roads, which may have been built later

 

The system is perfectly okay for land registry use, but to use it for mail address or general location identification is Just downright stupid. 

 

Not familiar with Japanese addressing, they also use land registry data for mail and location addressing? 

[blackcab]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:39 PM, mran66 said:

...and to make it even worse

 

We've all heard of the province called Roi Et, which as we all know means 101.

 

How do you get to number 101 when there are only 76 other provinces? Has anyone found a province called 99? What about 100?

[CharlieH]

7 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

We've all heard of the province called Roi Et, which as we all know means 101.

 

How do you get to number 101 when there are only 76 other provinces? Has anyone found a province called 99? What about 100?

Wild guess, it was named prior to the formation of the provinces as we know them and at that time there were more ? Seems like a possibly theory ?

[foreverlomsak]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:39 PM, mran66 said:

On the other side, this is one of the best examples of so call 'Thai logic'  (i.e no logic) that even Thais say farang can not understand.

Travelling along my Soi, Moo 15, from the main road on the left you have house no 182, then mine 35, and behind mine (further from the Soi), is 63/1. How the Post Office knows who is where defeats me. Moo 15 is the primary road through the village but Moo 3 is is a side road off Moo 15.

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, mran66 said:

Newly subdivided parcels are numbered in the order in which they are created.

That does not work where I am 63/1 is the second house off the Moo, house 63 is 4 properties further along the road and 2 in from the Moo. 63 is the mothers house and 63/1 is the first sons house.

[VocalNeal]

Eventually we will all be using What 3 Words or derivatives of. Whereby each house or dwelling has a unique identifier. Simple just three words as a unique identifier of each 3m square of the planet.

But it will take time. 

The post office knows where you are as will Kerry if you get some on-line shopping delivered. Pizza Hut/Company probably already knows where you live. 

[lopburi3]

Here in Bangkok there are two systems - the normal house number/land plot number and the new consecutive house numbers (which almost no-one uses but often both will be displayed).  So you may have house number 6/37 also having number 43.  

As for delivery they almost all have to call to get directions even here in Bangkok where simple Google would show.  

[Pro1Expat]

On 1/22/2021 at 6:24 AM, mran66 said:

Is there any convenient way  or tool to find a location of a formal Thai address (other than go riding around the Moo xx and try to find the house xy/yx)?

 

Wonder how all the delivery companies and mailmen manage to find the place they deliver, do they have some tool for that or just local knowledge?

If the house you are to find have ordered from you they can add a small Google map showing their residence.

[jackdd]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:39 PM, mran66 said:

Until today I kind of thought that the Moo numbers would be single areas.

The Moo numbers are single areas, but the same house number does of course exist in multiple Moos, so there will be a "1 Moo 1" as well as a "1 Moo 2".

On 1/22/2021 at 5:39 PM, mran66 said:

Was trying to figure out what the history behind this kind of system is, just can't get it.

I think long ago each Moo was a village (maybe just a few houses), and there was some space between them, which clearly separated them. But over time the villages grew and in many places the clearly visible borders (areas without houses) between the Moos were gone, so now the borders often only exist on paper.

 

Afaik there is no publicly available map showing the house numbers. The land offices should have such maps for their area though, maybe it's possible to get a printout from them.

[mran66]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

The Moo numbers are single areas, but the same house number does of course exist in multiple Moos, so there will be a "1 Moo 1" as well as a "1 Moo 2".

I think long ago each Moo was a village (maybe just a few houses), and there was some space between them, which clearly separated them. But over time the villages grew and in many places the clearly visible borders (areas without houses) between the Moos were gone, so now the borders often only exist on paper.

 

Afaik there is no publicly available map showing the house numbers. The land offices should have such maps for their area though, maybe it's possible to get a printout from them.

 

In Pattaya  (Nongprue) Moo 11 is in lower khaotalo area, and moo 11 also several km away ( just north of hw7 near railroad) another. Maybe railway is the connecting area for these Moo 11's for whatever land registry reason then, without any actual addresses ...Anyway learned this when trying to find a Moo 11 address in khaotalo that was in hw7 area

[jackdd]

52 minutes ago, mran66 said:

 

In Pattaya  (Nongprue) Moo 11 is in lower khaotalo area, and moo 11 also several km away ( just north of hw7 near railroad) another. Maybe railway is the connecting area for these Moo 11's for whatever land registry reason then, without any actual addresses ...Anyway learned this when trying to find a Moo 11 address in khaotalo that was in hw7 area

If I look on Google maps highway 7 is in Laem Chabang. After looking further I guess you are referring to the "Chonburi Pattaya Hwy" which comes from motorway 7 and goes west.

What you are looking at are actually two different Tambons. Only the northern "Moo 11" is Tambon "Nongprue".

The Moo 11 which you see in Khaotalo is Tambon "Meaung Pattaya"

I also noticed that some businesses which you can find on Google maps use the wrong Tambon in their address (probably because it's very close to Nongprue)

 

I came across this site which shows some house numbers. It's quite incomplete, but better than nothing: http://wikimapia.org

 

[richard_smith237]

19 hours ago, CharlieH said:

19 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

We've all heard of the province called Roi Et, which as we all know means 101.

 

How do you get to number 101 when there are only 76 other provinces? Has anyone found a province called 99? What about 100?

Wild guess, it was named prior to the formation of the provinces as we know them and at that time there were more ? Seems like a possibly theory ?

 

Roi Et had eleven feudal states and was thus named ‘Eleven Gates’. In ancient Thai the number 11 was written ๑๐๑ and thus the name of province was ๑๐๑ (eleven) which later on was ‘mistranslated’ to 101 and the number stuck, hence the name Roi Et.

 

------

 

Thai Addresses...  No idea how they do it. We are always receiving stuff for the house of the same house number in the neighbouring ‘moo-bean’... 

 

In our previous house food delivery Guys and Grab would really struggle, 50% of them unable to find the house, where as friends (both Western and Thai had no trouble). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by richard_smith237

[allane]

22 hours ago, mran66 said:

 

The system is perfectly okay for land registry use, but to use it for mail address or general location identification is Just downright stupid. 

 

Not familiar with Japanese addressing, they also use land registry data for mail and location addressing? 

A very simplified explanation of the Japanese system, as used in urban areas. The following example is a ficticious address:   Shinjuku 11-22-33.  Explanation:  Shinjuku Ward, District 11/Block 22/Building 33.

Japanese addresses work from the general to the specific; that part is logical to me.  So if speaking to someone outside of the country, a Japanese speaks or writes:

         Japan

         Tokyo

          Shinjuku 11-22 -33

         

Addresses are assigned sequentially, in the order in which the lot was created. Addresses are not in geographic order, and there is no reference to the name of the road which the building fronts on. If the building has a name, that is not mentioned either.. There are police boxes located at major intersections, which have detailed maps of their district.  I presume that police stations and post offices have maps too.

   

[DaLa]

I've been trying to find a dentist near where I live and the addresses given may as well be in another country. Absolute waste of space. They sometimes give  Google maps GPS co-ordinates and that can be kilometres away from the address.

 

I usually switch to walking mode and see if I can spot the building I want by scanning around with a 'real' life picture.

[mran66]

On 1/24/2021 at 3:44 PM, jackdd said:

If I look on Google maps highway 7 is in Laem Chabang. After looking further I guess you are referring to the "Chonburi Pattaya Hwy" which comes from motorway 7 and goes west.

What you are looking at are actually two different Tambons. Only the northern "Moo 11" is Tambon "Nongprue".

The Moo 11 which you see in Khaotalo is Tambon "Meaung Pattaya"

I also noticed that some businesses which you can find on Google maps use the wrong Tambon in their address (probably because it's very close to Nongprue)

 

I came across this site which shows some house numbers. It's quite incomplete, but better than nothing: http://wikimapia.org

 

 

 

Oh okay that would explain it...though now wetting a bit confused about the address I have been using for my own place (in pratamnak). Somehow somewhere I got to understand that I am in Banglamung Nongprue Moo 12.. 

But based on your explanation, my address should be Banglamung Pattaya Moo 12 then?? Seems Nongprue is widely used in addresses in what actually is pattaya, not Nongprue, if I understand your explanation properly? 

[jackdd]

28 minutes ago, mran66 said:

Oh okay that would explain it...though now wetting a bit confused about the address I have been using for my own place (in pratamnak). Somehow somewhere I got to understand that I am in Banglamung Nongprue Moo 12.. 

But based on your explanation, my address should be Banglamung Pattaya Moo 12 then?? Seems Nongprue is widely used in addresses in what actually is pattaya, not Nongprue, if I understand your explanation properly? 

Yes, probably you are in Tambon "Meuang Pattaya". Have a look in your house book, or the electricity or water bill, this should state your correct address.

 

This is Tambon Nongprue according to Google Maps:

Edited January 25, 2021 by jackdd

[allane]

If you search "Wiki Chonburi province", you will note that Chonburi consists of 11 ampheurs, and Pattaya is not one of them.  If you click on Bang Lameuang, you will note that Pattaya is a sort of overlay of Nongprue, Nongprue is a component of Bang Lameung.  Even if Pattaya is the centre of your universe, to the larger Thai world, it is just one of many communities in the province.  I am a former resident of Nongprue, Bang Lameung.

Edited January 26, 2021 by allane
x

[mran66]

23 hours ago, jackdd said:

Yes, probably you are in Tambon "Meuang Pattaya". Have a look in your house book, or the electricity or water bill, this should state your correct address.

 

This is Tambon Nongprue according to Google Maps:

 

 

My house book says Nongprue. Basically this throws the explanation of different Tambons to bin as it appears that all the locations, including the two different Moo 11s (that was the original issue I raised) as well as my own home are in Nongprue area. It appears Pattaya is indeed some kind of administrative overlay, not a dedicated official land registry area in itself. 

 

Thus still a mystery to me how the two different Moo 11 areas can be several km apart, and other Moo areas in between them (however having the railroad and its side roads between them as connector) 

[jackdd]

The Thai Wikipedia page solves some of the points: https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/อำเภอบางละมุง

I was wrong with "Meuang Pattaya" (and many people on Google Maps as well, because this is mostly given as Tambon in their address).This is actually not a Tambon, it's just a name for an area stretching across 4 different Tambons (Nong Prue, Nong Pla Lai, Huai Yai, Na Kluea)

When I look up some other maps regarding Tambon Nongprue the area that Google shows seems to be correct.

In none of these maps does it go anywhere near Pratamnak. For me Pratamnak means this hill near the sea (around there: https://goo.gl/maps/vgzVLrEr1mXCGHT87 ), this is where you stay @mran66? Or do you actually stay somewhere in this area with a red border as shown on my screenshot above?

Imho Pratamnak should be in Tambon Na Kluea.

 

42 minutes ago, mran66 said:

Basically this throws the explanation of different Tambons to bin as it appears that all the locations, including the two different Moo 11s

Not really, I just got confused by "Meuang Pattaya" because many people give this as their Tambon in their business addresses even though it actually isn't even a Tambon.

The moo 11 in Khaotalo should belong to Tambon Na Kluea, and the other one in the north is Moo 11 of Tambon Nongprue.

Edited January 26, 2021 by jackdd

[mran66]

21 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The Thai Wikipedia page solves some of the points: https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/อำเภอบางละมุง

I was wrong with "Meuang Pattaya" (and many people on Google Maps as well, because this is mostly given as Tambon in their address).This is actually not a Tambon, it's just a name for an area stretching across 4 different Tambons (Nong Prue, Nong Pla Lai, Huai Yai, Na Kluea)

When I look up some other maps regarding Tambon Nongprue the area that Google shows seems to be correct.

In none of these maps does it go anywhere near Pratamnak. For me Pratamnak means this hill near the sea (around there: https://goo.gl/maps/vgzVLrEr1mXCGHT87 ), this is where you stay @mran66? Or do you actually stay somewhere in this area with a red border as shown on my screenshot above?

Imho Pratamnak should be in Tambon Na Kluea.

 

Not really, I just got confused by "Meuang Pattaya" because many people give this as their Tambon in their business addresses even though it actually isn't even a Tambon.

The moo 11 in Khaotalo should belong to Tambon Na Kluea, and the other one in the north is Moo 11 of Tambon Nongprue.

 

Yes I stay in bottom of Soi 5, near sea. 

 

Naklua vs Nongprue would explain the two Moo 11s if that holds. 

 

But my house book says Nongprue, so Pratamnak is in Nongprue Moo 12, not Na Kluea. Also think khaotalo area in Nongprue area as well, though not 100% sure so not sure if different Tambon explain the two Moo 11 areas... 

 

So mystery not fully solved yet fully proven 555

 

[treetops]

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

When I look up some other maps regarding Tambon Nongprue the area that Google shows seems to be correct.

 

I'm not so sure.  It's not a big sample, but I've just looked through a handful of business cards and any that say Nongprue in the address are in central Pattaya and not the dark side as Google suggests.  My 90 day report shows I selected Nong Prue, Bang Lamung, Chon Buri as the address with no mention of Pattaya even though that's where I stay.