UK asks EU for Brexit grace period extension to 2023, BBC reports

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Who-ever idea it was it was not a very good idea, are you not bothered that our citizens in NI are not being treated the same as the rest of us, come on you keep saying that you're a patriot, show it. It may have been thought that it was a good idea at the time, recent events have proven otherwise. The EU have shown that they are quite prepared to use this border issue as a weapon to suit their own agenda and use it without a thought for our citizens in the north.

 

Where do borders go, there is only one place for a border to go and that is between two foreign countries and a border will not break the GFA, only a militarized border would do this.

 

You're wasting your time buddy it's obvious some here will never get over the fact the UK is free and getting on with all the stuff that was bound to cause hic cups along the way. 

There just trouble makers nothing more nothing less. 

I thought my ignor list was full obviously not. ????

[welovesundaysatspace]

47 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The presidency of the European Commission is a higher profile role than the Cabinet Secretary for the UK or any other country.

No, not according to the UK, for which the EU is just another “international organisation”. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

Whose-ever idea it was it was not a very good idea, are you not bothered that our citizens in NI are not being treated the same as the rest of us, come on you keep saying that you're a patriot, show it.

The “patriotic” thing to do and the treatment “our citizens in NI” deserve is another civil war in Ireland? 
 

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

Where do borders go, there is only one place for a border to go and that is between two foreign countries and and a border will not break the GFA, only a militarized border would do this.

Borders between countries come with border posts and police. That alone would be enough to break the GFA and risk another conflict. 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The “patriotic” thing to do and the treatment “our citizens in NI” deserve is another civil war in Ireland? 
 

Borders between countries come with border posts and police. That alone would be enough to break the GFA and risk another conflict. 

Link.

UvdL was the instigator on all of this, I told you that you would reap what you show.

Edited February 9, 2021 by vogie

[welovesundaysatspace]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

Link.

UvdL was the instigator on all of this, I told you that you would reap what you show.

You keep fantasizing. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You keep fantasizing. 

There isn't any fantasy in questioning your ficticious fabricated facts.

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

and a border will not break the GFA, only a militarized border would do this.

Try telling that to the IRA

Edited February 9, 2021 by Surelynot

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

Try telling that the IRA

Violence will never usurp democracy.

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

Violence will never usurp democracy.

Myanmar, Thailand?.......Maybe violence from the IRA won't usurp democracy, but it won't stop people dying during their attempts to do so.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

Myanmar, Thailand?.......Maybe violence from the IRA won't usurp democracy, but it won't stop people dying during their attempts to do so.

So we forget about democracy because you don't want to upset a terrorist organization, yeah that'll work just fine. Don't forget that the IRA signed this GFA in the form of Martin McGuiness, you seem very concerned about Boris going back on his word but don't have a problem with terrorists, would that be a fair appraisel of what you are saying?

[bkkcanuck8]

45 minutes ago, vogie said:

Link.

UvdL was the instigator on all of this, I told you that you would reap what you show.

You are HALF right, HALF wrong.  The "Northern Ireland only 'Backstop'' was part of the original Withdrawal Agreement signed into law in the Withdrawal agreement.  The original suggestion from the EU side was for that to be part of the agreement, but Theresa May decided (since DUP held the balance of power) that was unacceptable and agreed with the EU that the UK would remain in the backstop with Northern Ireland until such time as things could be worked out.... Theresa May's government fell and Boris took over and decided he did not want to keep the existing agreement and wanted to 'change the agreement' to leaving Northern Ireland in the customs union (as part of taking the UK out in a much harder Brexit)...   He went to the EU and proposed it and since it was closer to the suggestion of the EU to begin with... they agreed that the Withdrawal agreement could be amended.   In other words, it was not at the EUs insistence, but it was an idea first raised by the EU. 

 

https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/26/brexit-what-is-the-irish-backstop-and-why-does-boris-johnson-want-it-ditched

 

 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You are HALF right, HALF wrong.  The "Northern Ireland only 'Backstop'' was part of the original Withdrawal Agreement signed into law in the Withdrawal agreement.  The original suggestion from the EU side was for that to be part of the agreement, but Theresa May decided (since DUP held the balance of power) that was unacceptable and agreed with the EU that the UK would remain in the backstop with Northern Ireland until such time as things could be worked out.... Theresa May's government fell and Boris took over and decided he did not want to keep the existing agreement and wanted to 'change the agreement' to leaving Northern Ireland in the customs union (as part of taking the UK out in a much harder Brexit)...   He went to the EU and proposed it and since it was closer to the suggestion of the EU to begin with... they agreed that the Withdrawal agreement could be amended.   In other words, it was not at the EUs insistence, but it was an idea first raised by the EU. 

 

https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/26/brexit-what-is-the-irish-backstop-and-why-does-boris-johnson-want-it-ditched

 

 

What I said was who ever put this in place, it hasn't worked. The EU were the first to trigger art 16, do we agree on that?

[bkkcanuck8]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

What I said was who ever put this in place, it hasn't worked. The EU were the first to trigger art 16, do we agree on that?

Technically not, the EU was the first one to 'threaten' to trigger Article 16 .... this year.... they did not trigger article 16 (which was quickly backtracked -- probably by Ireland calling up and saying <deleted>!).   Early UK proposals (which Ireland rejected) would have triggered it by putting up a border checkpoints between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland -- though I am not sure the words uttered accepting that it would.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Technically not, the EU was the first one to 'threaten' to trigger Article 16 .... this year.... they did not trigger article 16 (which was quickly backtracked -- probably by Ireland calling up and saying <deleted>!).   Early UK proposals (which Ireland rejected) would have triggered it by putting up a border checkpoints between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland -- though I am not sure the words uttered accepting that it would.

"Technically not" ????????

 

The Irish seem to think that they triggered art16, everybody else seems to agree that it was triggered, the only people that are saying it wasn't triggered are the ones trying to cover up this monumental error of judgement.

 

"The EU has triggered Article 16 of the protocol to temporarily place export controls on this movement in respect of vaccines.
It comes amid a deepening row over the allocation of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine after the company announced delays to its EU operations."

 

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/eu-triggering-article-16-act-19732667

[elliss]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:56 AM, bannork said:

The DUP are not happy bunnies says Ian Paisley ( you'd think his dad could have given him a different first name).

https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2021/01/11/news/uk-eu-trading-regime-an-unmitigated-disaster-for-northern-ireland-ian-paisley-says-2183874/

 

Ian Paisley , had a dad .??

[tebee]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Why are you bringing armed soldiers into it, I never mentioned anything about armed soldiers. Having a border between the N & S of Ireland does not contravene the Good Friday agreement, do we agree on that. I know from your past posts that you have history with the South, but I think it would be fair to say that the South is not a big fan of the UK. The North are our citizens and we cannot let them become pawns, they must be treated exactly the same way as the rest of the United Kingdom.

My point about the armed soldiers is that pre-GFA the border that divided the two half's of Ireland was a lot like that that divided the two half's   of Germany and the Berlin wall.

 

The GFA acknowledges the existence of the border, but also says it needs to be an invisible border with no checks were people can freely cross. If you think your going to reinstate a hard border there without bringing back those watchtowers and armed soldiers I would say you are very much mistaken.

 

I would also point out that half the citizens of the North don't want to be UK subjects and the North didn't vote to leave the EU. Both those things have been forced on it's citizens.

 

As for my bias my ancestors were Protestants(quakers) who were forced to leave County Cork after partition, so I'm not exactly biased in favor of it.   

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, elliss said:

 

Ian Paisley , had a dad .??

Yes, the Pope of NI.

[StreetCowboy]

Apart from the Unification of Ireland, which has not even happened yet, what are the other benefits of Brexit? 

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

Apart from the Unification of Ireland, which has not even happened yet, what are the other benefits of Brexit? 

the colour of UK passports

chlorinated chickens a volonté

 

[Surelynot]

8 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Apart from the Unification of Ireland, which has not even happened yet, what are the other benefits of Brexit? 

There is a zip file with all the benefits apparently.....555

Edited February 9, 2021 by Surelynot

[StreetCowboy]

9 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

the colour of UK passports

chlorinated chickens a volonté

 

My passport hasn't changed colour.

[adammike]

37 minutes ago, tebee said:

My point about the armed soldiers is that pre-GFA the border that divided the two half's of Ireland was a lot like that that divided the two half's   of Germany and the Berlin wall.

 

The GFA acknowledges the existence of the border, but also says it needs to be an invisible border with no checks were people can freely cross. If you think your going to reinstate a hard border there without bringing back those watchtowers and armed soldiers I would say you are very much mistaken.

 

I would also point out that half the citizens of the North don't want to be UK subjects and the North didn't vote to leave the EU. Both those things have been forced on it's citizens.

 

As for my bias my ancestors were Protestants(quakers) who were forced to leave County Cork after partition, so I'm not exactly biased in favor of it.   

The only border controls will be for goods, and set well back from the actual border line.It will only be only in the Republic untill the DUP discover wide spread fraud and then they will want one too.

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

There is a zip file with all the benefits apparently.....555

Maybe Vogie can open it? - the rest of the world can't.

[7by7]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Whose-ever idea it was it was not a very good idea, are you not bothered that our citizens in NI are not being treated the same as the rest of us, come on you keep saying that you're a patriot, show it.

 

I am bothered; which is why when Boris first announced his protocol with it's border down the Irish Sea separating Northern Ireland from Great Britain I called it on this forum and elsewhere a sell out of the Northern Irish people.

 

A sell out which his predecessor showed she would not contemplate when in February 2018 she announced in Parliament in response to the EU "The draft legal text the commission have published would, if implemented, undermine the UK common market and threaten the constitutional integrity of the UK by creating a customs and regulatory border down the Irish Sea, and no UK prime minster could ever agree to it,"

 

As we all know, in order to satisfy his own personal political ambition Boris Johnson bent over on this point and did agree to it; shafting the people of Northern Ireland in the process.

 

My country is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Not "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland until such time as ditching Northern Ireland suits my Brexit purpose!"

 

4 hours ago, vogie said:

It may have been thought that it was a good idea at the time,

On this side of both the Channel and the Irish Sea, only by Boris and those in his party who cared more about their personal ambitions than the people of Northern Ireland.

 

Plus, of course, the "Boris can do no wrong" brigade who care more about slogans than facts.

 

4 hours ago, vogie said:

The EU have shown that they are quite prepared to use this border issue as a weapon to suit their own agenda and use it without a thought for our citizens in the north.

One instance; almost immediately withdrawn and admitted to be a mistake.

 

A reminder that 16 days before the EU's announcement, Boris himself said in Parliament on the 13th January that he would have "no hesitation" in triggering Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol if 'disproportionate' problems arise as a result of the legislation. (Source)

 

He has repeated that since in response to prompting from Arlene Foster and Ian Paisley Jnr to so do.

 

I asked you before if you agreed with the three of them; as expected, you dodged the question.

 

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Where do borders go, there is only one place for a border to go and that is between two foreign countries and a border will not break the GFA, only a militarized border would do this.

 

It is true that as Fact Check NI say

Quote

In the Belfast Agreement, the only specific reference to the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland appears in a section on security. This includes the statement, “The British Government will make progress towards the objective of as early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern Ireland, consistent with the level of threat … dealing with:

• • the reduction of the numbers and role of the Armed Forces deployed in Northern Ireland to levels compatible with a normal peaceful society;
  • the removal of security installations;
  • the removal of emergency powers in Northern Ireland; and
  • other measures appropriate to and compatible with a normal peaceful society.”

 

There have already been threats of violence from Loyalists over the Irish Sea border; EU officials withdrawn from Northern Ireland ports following threats to staff from loyalists. 

 

To believe that any form of hard border between North and South would not trigger the same, and worse, from Republican terrorists is the height of naivety.

 

PIRA have not gone away.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by 7by7
typos

[7by7]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Try telling that the IRA

Violence will never usurp democracy.

 

Who voted to "Leave the European Union and restart PIRA terrorism?" I've checked; didn't say that on the ballot paper.

 

There were, though, plenty of warnings during the campaign and after that Brexit would cause such problems over the Irish border unless some solution was found. 

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

2 hours ago, vogie said:

What I said was who ever put this in place, it hasn't worked. The EU were the first to trigger art 16, do we agree on that?

<snip>Technically not, the EU was the first one to 'threaten' to trigger Article 16 .... this year...

 

You're both wrong. It was Boris.

 

As I say above: 16 days before the EU's announcement, Boris himself said in Parliament on the 13th January that he would have "no hesitation" in triggering Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol if 'disproportionate' problems arise as a result of the legislation. (Source)

[vogie]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

The GFA acknowledges the existence of the border, but also says it needs to be an invisible border with no checks were people can freely cross. If you think your going to reinstate a hard border there without bringing back those watchtowers and armed soldiers I would say you are very much mistaken.

You need to show some evidence where it states the border must be invisible. 

Infact the GFA is very sketchy, but it only says that the borders must be demiliterized, I have better information that I can lay my hands on tomorrow, but just to keep you interested here is another. 

 

"What does the Good Friday Agreement say about a hard border?

A lot less than you might think. The only place in which it alludes to infrastructure at the border is in the section on security.

During the Troubles there were heavily fortified army barracks, police stations and watchtowers along the border. They were frequently attacked by Republican paramilitaries.

Part of the peace deal involved the UK government agreeing to a process of removing those installations in what became known as "demilitarisation"."

The agreement states that "the development of a peaceful environment... can and should mean a normalisation of security arrangements and practices."

The government committed to "as early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern Ireland, consistent with the level of threat".

That included "the removal of security installations". That is as far as the text goes."

 

So it is obvious to anyone other than a fervent remainer that the present arrangement is of no use to man nor beast especially when the EU can use art16 to suit themselves as shown. 

[bkkcanuck8]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

You need to show some evidence where it states the border must be invisible. 

Infact the GFA is very sketchy, but it only says that the borders must be demiliterized, I have better information that I can lay my hands on tomorrow, but just to keep you interested here is another. 

 

"What does the Good Friday Agreement say about a hard border?

A lot less than you might think. The only place in which it alludes to infrastructure at the border is in the section on security.

During the Troubles there were heavily fortified army barracks, police stations and watchtowers along the border. They were frequently attacked by Republican paramilitaries.

Part of the peace deal involved the UK government agreeing to a process of removing those installations in what became known as "demilitarisation"."

The agreement states that "the development of a peaceful environment... can and should mean a normalisation of security arrangements and practices."

The government committed to "as early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern Ireland, consistent with the level of threat".

That included "the removal of security installations". That is as far as the text goes."

 

So it is obvious to anyone other than a fervent remainer that the present arrangement is of no use to man nor beast especially when the EU can use art16 to suit themselves as shown. 

If that was true, then the EU would not have 'triggered' Article 16 as part of stopping vaccines crossing the border...

[CharlieH]

Reported post , responses to it, removed.

Incorrect format and responses to it, removed.

 

If you are going to cut n paste from other places make sure its in the correct size/format when posted here or it will be removed.

[david555]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

You're both wrong. It was Boris.

 

As I say above: 16 days before the EU's announcement, Boris himself said in Parliament on the 13th January that he would have "no hesitation" in triggering Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol if 'disproportionate' problems arise as a result of the legislation. (Source)

And then it shall be cheered as a welcome action by all those who now attacking UvdL ..... just wait and see ....but only allowed if it is a Boris action ...