On 2/12/2021 at 9:33 AM, simple1 said:

 Already Republicans are trying to set up further suppression of voters, if they have their way 'fair elections' with not occur.

 

IN STATE after state, Republicans are responding to the 2020 election not by rethinking the candidates they run and the policies they espouse, but by trying to make it harder to vote.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republican-voter-suppression-laws-montana-arizona/2021/02/09/95297ab6-6a5e-11eb-ba56-d7e2c8defa31_story.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_opinions&utm_campaign=wp_opinions

This is critically relevant given that GOP controlled state legislatures have already introduced 100 measures designed to suppress voting in 2022/24 by restricting access to the ballot via overly stringent ID requirements, limiting absentee voting – particularly by mail – and reducing polling stations in heavily Democratic constituencies. All justified by the BIG LIE about voter fraud – an issue that never surfaced until this century when the GOP realised it could never win a free and fair national popular vote.

 

This is a shameless rejection of democracy in principle, and for a reason.

 

Republican presidential candidates have won the popular vote only once since1988--a span of 35 years...so the billionaire financed leadership of the GOP know that the only way to retain power--given that they refuse to compete for votes by offering new ideas and evolving ideologically-- is to disenfranchise people of color, urban voters, old people and young voters--who vote Democratic by large margins.

 

Their efforts benefit enormously by the structurally anti-democratic Senate where each state is equally represented regardless of its population. This was not such a problem in 1789 when the largest state was only 11 times more populous than the smallest state. But today that gap is 55 times. The 50 Democratic Senators serving today represent 41 million more Americans than their 50 Republican colleagues. 

 

Evicting Trump was a crucial battle in the war that has only just begun. His reign of terror and error was not an outlier given that the GOP leadership and rank-and-file, still embrace the BIG LIE about voter fraud.
 

16 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Its a simple question. If it werent for trumps speech would it have happened.

 

It seems not, because when he finally tweeted to stop they went home.

 

There is your answer.

I agree Trump is responsible.  I'm just curious what those who insist Trump is innocent of instigating the Capitol riot think.  Do they think someone else caused the riot, or do they think it was just a totally spontaneous riot that nobody planned or led?

11 minutes ago, xylophone said:

This is critically relevant given that GOP controlled state legislatures have already introduced 100 measures designed to suppress voting in 2022/24 by restricting access to the ballot via overly stringent ID requirements, limiting absentee voting – particularly by mail – and reducing polling stations in heavily Democratic constituencies. All justified by the BIG LIE about voter fraud – an issue that never surfaced until this century when the GOP realised it could never win a free and fair national popular vote.

 

This is a shameless rejection of democracy in principle, and for a reason.

 

Republican presidential candidates have won the popular vote only once since1988--a span of 35 years...so the billionaire financed leadership of the GOP know that the only way to retain power--given that they refuse to compete for votes by offering new ideas and evolving ideologically-- is to disenfranchise people of color, urban voters, old people and young voters--who vote Democratic by large margins.

 

Their efforts benefit enormously by the structurally anti-democratic Senate where each state is equally represented regardless of its population. This was not such a problem in 1789 when the largest state was only 11 times more populous than the smallest state. But today that gap is 55 times. The 50 Democratic Senators serving today represent 41 million more Americans than their 50 Republican colleagues. 

 

Evicting Trump was a crucial battle in the war that has only just begun. His reign of terror and error was not an outlier given that the GOP leadership and rank-and-file, still embrace the BIG LIE about voter fraud.
 

 

Thanks. I was aware of some of the points you raised and worth repeating, it's why I quoted you in full. It has been in my mind for a while the US political system is in deep trouble with circumstances the Framers presumably thought would never occur i.e. Senators en masse breaching their Oath of Office. How this conundrum can be resolved I do not know.

Just now, simple1 said:

 

Thanks. I was aware of some of the points you raised and worth repeating, it's why I quoted you in full. It has been in my mind for a while the US political system is in deep trouble with circumstances the Framers presumably thought would never occur i.e. Senators en masse breaching their Oath of Office. How this conundrum can be resolved I do not know.

HERE'S how we fix it:

Vote the <self deleted> out!

Educate the citizens.

Reintroduce The Fairness Doctrine.

Break up media monopolies.

Punish your kids so they grow up right.

 

That would be a good start.

 

2 minutes ago, J Town said:

HERE'S how we fix it:

Vote the <self deleted> out!

Educate the citizens.

Reintroduce The Fairness Doctrine.

Break up media monopolies.

Punish your kids so they grow up right.

 

That would be a good start.

 

 

One hopes your wishes come true, though the damage caused by trumpism is deep rooted

4 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

12 hours ago, johnmell said:

Is there a national tv station in the US that is strictly neutral? )

Yes CNN

Really?.Shame actually as they have some very good presenters,but their debates rarely have any sort of balance.

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

One hopes your wishes come true, though the damage caused by trumpism is deep rooted

 

 Trumpism didn't cause the damage.  It's a symptom of a festering problem, decades in the making.

 

On 2/12/2021 at 2:14 AM, J Town said:

Twice impeached xenophobic homophobic disgraced former president.

Ya missed out narcissistic.

 

 

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

I agree Trump is responsible.  I'm just curious what those who insist Trump is innocent of instigating the Capitol riot think.  Do they think someone else caused the riot, or do they think it was just a totally spontaneous riot that nobody planned or led?

I heard an item today that over half of republicans actually think that the insurrection was mainly done by Antifa. Dealing with the republican party isn't particularly more centered in reality than dealing with the Q cult or the Proud Boys. This nightmare if far from over.

7 hours ago, impulse said:

 

 Trumpism didn't cause the damage.  It's a symptom of a festering problem, decades in the making.

 

True.  The damage began with Newt Gingrich in the 1990's.  He showed that uncompromising partisan politics works, especially in the more homogeneous thinly populated states that are key to holding the Senate.  This made elections all about catering to the extremes instead of catering to the center.  Trump is the result of this.

9 hours ago, impulse said:

 

 Trumpism didn't cause the damage.  It's a symptom of a festering problem, decades in the making.

 

Kevin McCarthy would absolutely disagree. They were almost ALL wearing former president hats, flags, screaming his rhetoric. It's ALWAYS been t****ism, that's just the name being put on it now.

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I heard an item today that over half of republicans actually think that the insurrection was mainly done by Antifa. Dealing with the republican party isn't particularly more centered in reality than dealing with the Q cult or the Proud Boys. This nightmare if far from over.

The GOOD thing is good hearted Republicans are deserting the party in droves. They still have active brains and don't want to associate with Q cult, Antifa (for crying out loud that's not even a GROUP!), Proud Boys, et al.

10 hours ago, impulse said:

 

 Trumpism didn't cause the damage.  It's a symptom of a festering problem, decades in the making.

 

 

trump certainly exacerbated division within the US and elsewhere - a failure of character and presidential responsibilities. Republican Senators again failed in their duty by putting party before country, Hopefully republicans will stay out of power until they cleanse themselves of the stink of trumpism.

17 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Thanks. I was aware of some of the points you raised and worth repeating, it's why I quoted you in full. It has been in my mind for a while the US political system is in deep trouble with circumstances the Framers presumably thought would never occur i.e. Senators en masse breaching their Oath of Office. How this conundrum can be resolved I do not know.

 

It will take a new Constitution.  The current Constitution will never be amended again, because of the requirement of a trifecta of super-majorities to do so: the Senate, the House, and the states.  The impeachment process in the Constitution has failed every time it has been tried.  Lifetime tenure of Supreme Court justices, intended to shelter them from political pressure, has also failed spectacularly since the current Court is probably the most politicized in history.

 

But what will cause the collapse of the current Constitution is the Electoral College.  Within twenty years fifty percent of the voters will live in eight states, mostly in urban areas in those states.  That means they will be largely Democrats.  It also means that the discrepancy between the "popular vote" and the Electoral College vote that actually decides the election will become both larger and permanent.  At some point the Democrats will rebel at the perpetual minority government of the Republican Party.  They might call a new constitutional convention to write a more modern constitution, but it's hard to see how the necessary compromises could be achieved as they were in 1787.  So, the other possible outcome is that the country will split apart.

2 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

It will take a new Constitution.  The current Constitution will never be amended again, because of the requirement of a trifecta of super-majorities to do so: the Senate, the House, and the states.  The impeachment process in the Constitution has failed every time it has been tried.  Lifetime tenure of Supreme Court justices, intended to shelter them from political pressure, has also failed spectacularly since the current Court is probably the most politicized in history.

 

But what will cause the collapse of the current Constitution is the Electoral College.  Within twenty years fifty percent of the voters will live in eight states, mostly in urban areas in those states.  That means they will be largely Democrats.  It also means that the discrepancy between the "popular vote" and the Electoral College vote that actually decides the election will become both larger and permanent.  At some point the Democrats will rebel at the perpetual minority government of the Republican Party.  They might call a new constitutional convention to write a more modern constitution, but it's hard to see how the necessary compromises could be achieved as they were in 1787.  So, the other possible outcome is that the country will split apart.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. Hopefully it will never come to the USA 'splitting', history has shown the outcome is often accompanied by horrific levels of violence.

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

Thanks for your thoughts. Hopefully it will never come to the USA 'splitting', history has shown the outcome is often accompanied by horrific levels of violence.

 

It is possible that the violence we saw on Jan. 6 is the beginning of such violence and that it may continue for the next twenty years.

 

I am certainly not recommending that the US split up.  I am pointing out how the serious defects of the Constitution along with the fact that it is the most difficult to amend constitution in the world is likely to cause major problems in the future.  We would be better able to find a solution to those problems if we recognize now the bind that our outdated Constitution is putting us in.