My Issan 10kw on grid solar project fully installed by contractors 337,500bht

[eisfeld]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Those panels should produce 35 units/day, let's say all worth 4bht/unit = 140bht/day.

340,000 divide by 140bht =2428 days = 6.5 years for payback.

If you were selling all to the PEA @ 2bht/unit = 13 years for payback.

 

No proper system of over 10kWp would produce just 35 kWh per day. And for the system to sell 100% of the produced electricity to PEA at the bad rate the house would have to have zero consumption so that calculation doesn't fly. If he consumes what it produces then he saves around 4 baht instead of 2.

9 hours ago, mistral53 said:

The 60 Kwh circled in yellow is production, the 87 Kwh circled in red is consumption over a 24 hour period - the Huawei performance presentation is a bit confusing at first, but I can live with it.

 

If 87 kWh represents a normal days consumption then his monthly bill would be over 10k but he said it's 5k. Something seems a bit off.

 

9 hours ago, mistral53 said:

60 Kwh production leaves me green with envy - and I am not convinced, as this equates to 2.61 Kwh per panel. That is more than even the most optimistic installer will mention during his sales pitch. My best was 2 Kwh per panel, but I have shading problems, our neighbor, without shading, has a best of 2.1 Kwh. Admittedly, roof/panel angles and orientation will make a significant difference, and if it is confirmed, it will give me pause.

 

Looking at stats per panel imho can be misleading as panels can have very different wattages. Until a year ago 330W was the most common and now you see 440W ones growing in popularity. Better to calculate in kWh per kWp. 60kWh for a bit over 10kWp is slightly on the high side, I would expect 5x maybe but I wouldn't rule it out of the realm of possibilities.

[KannikaP]

9 hours ago, mistral53 said:

The 60 Kwh circled in yellow is production, the 87 Kwh circled in red is consumption over a 24 hour period

87KWh consumption less 60 production means, to me that you are using 27KWh per 24 houurs, twice what I use. Please explain to a Solar thickie.

[BritManToo]

22 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

No proper system of over 10kWp would produce just 35 kWh per day.

My 1680w of solar panels produce just under 5 units/day (averaged over a month).

10kw of panels is 7x my capacity ......... 7x5 = 35 units/day.

Maybe with better positioning and a better angle than me someone could squeeze out another 20% (42 units/day), but I'm calling BS on 65 units/day.

 

This month my total electricity bill was just under 400Bht.

I'm happy enough with that.

Edited February 24, 2021 by BritManToo

[Thaifish]

Gents I am being bombarded with queries and I have answers to all posts. Happy people are looking at this thread and input.. I'm still learning how to post all this info. I want to share my experience and will endeavor to get back as quick as I can!!! Today another good day with production. I am fissed off big time with the computer readout. It just does not add up. Maybe later once Smart meter installed info might get better...  So today with confidence I believe I produced 51Kw and consumed 41.25kw.. Perfect sunny day... I will post photos and reply to queries tonight as much as I can before I get Leo finger..... ????

[Thaifish]

On a side note.. You might notice in photo also another PV. I have 3 of them on roof 40W x 12v. These are powering 12v car radiator fans bought from wreckers 500bht extracting hot air from roof. Have not had a rat problem in roof since installed as a bonus. 3 years working and have only replaced 1. Tin roof is insulated and also have insulation batts in ceiling. Veranda around house stops sun hitting walls.. Initial design by me.. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Thaifish
Extra solar panel in photo

[Thaifish]

[eisfeld]

It looks like you have a very decent tilt plus orientation southward. Good stuff!

 

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

My 1680w of solar panels produce just under 5 units/day (averaged over a month).

10kw of panels is 7x my capacity ......... 7x5 = 35 units/day.

Maybe with better positioning and a better angle than me someone could squeeze out another 20% (42 units/day),

 

Positioning, angle and having a proper inverter makes quite some difference. Have you checked with a multimeter how much loss there is due to the inverter? On the system I bought, there are days that give 20kWh with 3.96kWh and noone has cleaned that thing in a long long time. Extrapolatiing that to Thaifish's system size that would be roughly 51kWh.

[Thaifish]

[Thaifish]

[Thaifish]

[Thaifish]

These guys smart used hooks to bring wires into place in tight corners ... Wiring internal roof also had conduit covering. Rats get hungry up here..

Edited February 24, 2021 by Thaifish

[eisfeld]

Oh those are even 450W instead of 440W as shown in the bill ????

[Thaifish]

[Thaifish]

Putting copper earth into ground.. When the going got tuff with the sledge hammer they used a drill with the hammer setting... great trick...never seen before..works...

[foreverlomsak]

How long is it going to take you to get a return on your investment, if your average PEA bill was 3,000 a month prior the installation that would take 112.5 months or over 9 years to break even, was it worth it?

[Thaifish]

So many posts and not enough time...sorry for not getting back... photos have taken sheet loads of time to download..  Before I go tonight even though pisssed of with Huawai display some things do add up. The yield I believe is accurate in the attachment below since start up..... My meter is turning backwards still. I changed the settings to stop feeding back into the grid only to find that it was still doing it....Worried about a holiday in the Bangkok Hilton... I questioned the boss lady only to find out that the installers are also watching the output just like me...Apparently they switched it back on to feed into the grid remotely from HQ Bkk...!! Yep the mind boggles!! My next question was how do you explain the meter reading being less than last reading?.. Reply from hammock as she swings....don't worry we order Smart Meter...Don't worry.... TiT...

[BritManToo]

Your house doesn't seem big enough to use 40 units of electricity a day.

My 3 bedroom house uses 8 units a day.

Was your previous electricity really 5,000bht/month?

Edited February 25, 2021 by BritManToo

[Thaifish]

The meter is feeding 2 bahns. 8 people, 6 a/c, 2 fridges (was 3), washing machine every day (kids clothes), irrigation pump runs all day, garden hose pump runs just about all day, well pump to fill garden tank + house shower supply etc. Rice cooker on 24/7 + Hot water for coffee 24/7. I run an 8000w hot water machine for my shower and fill jacuzzi, Puddah lights on all night (pet hate of mine). Yep consumption is around 1196Kw per month >>>4.18bht p/kw>>>5000bht. Last month we only consumed 640KW as nobody was using A/C though. Come the wet season the irrigation and garden pumps stop but the A/C's get switched on. We had to run a second phase from the grid meter as we burnt the supply cable out. So we have 2 phases coming into the bahn.

[Thaifish]

Day 6 and 1/2 the house empty as I was invited to go shopping with them in Burriram.. Nice to feel wanted.. cost me a sheeet load though...! Mostly sunny morning bar smoke from fires and a high thin cloud which built through the day.  Bahn should have used <deleted> all power but still managed to consume about 35kw for the day going by the bar graph below. I'm not 100% confident with the display but I think it could be accurate. The meter ran backwards 21kw which concurs with the bar graph. Production was 53Kw. The line graph I have given up trying to understand. The bar graph income no idea what settings are but 21kw x magic number 1.96 = 96bht profit for the day!! Did I mention I went shopping today cost sheet loads!!

 

The second screen shot taken yesterday shows the Wattage drop flowing through inverters which was a question asked earlier on in this thread. 7.82W before inverter down to 7.648W after = .172W drop.  

[Thaifish]

On 2/24/2021 at 9:44 AM, mistral53 said:

60 Kwh production leaves me green with envy - and I am not convinced, as this equates to 2.61 Kwh per panel. That is more than even the most optimistic installer will mention during his sales pitch. My best was 2 Kwh per panel, but I have shading problems, our neighbor, without shading, has a best of 2.1 Kwh. Admittedly, roof/panel angles and orientation will make a significant difference, and if it is confirmed, it will give me pause.

 

Mistral please jump on board with your input. Especially since you have experience with Huawai inverters. You may see in my photos the roof is orientated East/West. I basically have sun on the roof 100% of the day even though surrounded by bush. The pitch on the roof is 23Deg South.... The optimum is 27Deg South for my Latitude.... I have hand workings/calculations which I can post when I started this project....originally a 5kw system installed by myself...angles of sun...shadows...etc... I even went as far as calculating moving the panels orientation each 6 months for optimum power output...ended up bighting the bullet and got what I have with a fixed orientation even though I did ask the Contractors if it was possible to change angles... Yes an overkill doing it in the tropics. Sometimes I think to much....

[Thaifish]

36 minutes ago, Thaifish said:

21kw x magic number 1.96 = 96bht

OOOps.... 21 x magic number 1.96bht = 41.16bht profit

[Thaifish]

Some early days workings... Originally planning to do self installation myself.. 

[BritManToo]

47 minutes ago, Thaifish said:

23Deg South.... The optimum is 27Deg South for my Latitude

According to the calculator optimum is South 40deg winter,  North 8deg summer.

http://www.solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-angle-calculator.html

 

I just laid mine flat as it's easy to weld flat mounting brackets on my back wall.

Edited February 25, 2021 by BritManToo

[Thaifish]

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

According to the calculator optimum is South 40deg winter,  North 8deg summer.

Ur quick with reply.....have a look at above calcs just posted same time as you I am happy if you correct me... I must give away that I am a retired ships Captain and make mistakes. Celestial nav was one of my studies... Solar and electronics was not,,  8 deg North is Summer Soltice.. Optimum 86Deg South April through to Aug.... then 63 deg South Feb through to Oct.... These are optimum average elevation for each 6 months....75 South is mean elevation between the both over the year.  My calcs are in the drawings... 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Thaifish

[eisfeld]

You want to offset roughly the latitude if you don't have adjustable mounts. Length of day doesn't change much between summer and winter in Thailand. So for you in Buriram it would be roughly 15 degree angled south. The calculator Britmantoo linked to confirms this (I selected Nakhon Ratchasima as that's close nough). Spring/Automn is the middle between the two extremes. 75 degrees from vertical is 15 degree from horizontal. Calculated another way: 38 degrees south in Winter + 8 degrees north in Summer averages out to 15 degrees. (-8 + 38) / 2. You are seeing good yields because your angle at this time of year is close to the optimum (90-67 = 23).

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by eisfeld

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, eisfeld said:

You want to offset roughly the latitude if you don't have adjustable mounts.

 

Yeah, ours are a bit flat on the car port roof I'll measure the actual angle later (BKK should be around 13^o from horizontal).

 

Our OP is apparently getting a LOT more from his panels than we are, he has roughly 10kWP of panels and is getting 53kWh (5.3kWh per 1kWP installed), we have 6.5kWP installed and are currently getting about 22.5kWh (3.5kWh per 1kWP installed). He's getting better than 50% more than we are. ????

 

Note that my measurements come from actual energy meters rather than from the inverter (the inverter is optimistic by about 3% so not too bad really).

 

EDIT Our inverter was running at 94% efficiency at peak output yesterday vs our OP's at 98% but that's still only 4% accounted for.

 

[itsari]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:31 PM, tgw said:

so... what do the financials on this project look like?

how long until break even? do you make money by selling power to the grid?

what's the duration of amortization vs. expected lifetime of the installation?

expected maintenance and repair costs?

If you use cash in hand you make money from the word go . How much interest do you expect from 400,000 baht in the bank . Less than your monthly power bill I would say . 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Our OP is apparently getting a LOT more from his panels than we are, he has roughly 10kWP of panels and is getting 53kWh (5.3kWh per 1kWP installed), we have 6.5kWP installed and are currently getting about 22.5kWh (3.5kWh per 1kWP installed). He's getting better than 50% more than we are. ????

Agreed, he appears to be getting 65% more than me as well, which seems hard to believe.

(1.68Kwp installed giving me just under 5kwh per day .... x7 to get 10KWP would be 35kwh)

Edited February 26, 2021 by BritManToo

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Agreed, he appears to be getting 50-80% more than me as well, which seems hard to believe.

(1.68Kwp installed giving me just under 5kwh per day)

 

His production vs consumption differential seems ok (ties up with the meter), it's the absolute values of production and consumption that seem high.

[BritManToo]

Just now, Crossy said:

His production vs consumption differential seems ok (ties up with the meter), it's the absolute values of production and consumption that seem high.

Agreed, it's almost as if the solar meter readings are double everything.

It would be interesting to know what his monthly consumption was before the solar was fitted.