Seeking Helpful Opinions About Moving to Thailand / S.E.A.

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, Sig said:

By the way, it is very common for people to love each other without sex. I guess that's difficult to fathom for some people. Of course it wouldn't be normal in a marriage, but then again,

I would say no sex is entirely normal in western marriages after the woman has popped a couple of kids (or over age 40). Which is why we're all in Thailand. 

[ChrisKC]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I've never had any of the problems you describe, and would class the 13 years I've been in Thailand as the happiest in my life. All the Thai ladies that passed through my bed had no problems with communication, they all spoke English and after the first year I spoke Thai. Never encountered a Thai lady where discussing feelings didn't end in a big fight, it's an absolute no-no.

Women passing through my bed are nothing to do with the comment I made about language.

Exchanging feelings (not just angry ones), help to make understanding each other much better. I don't share your view about it being a no-no! You may fight, I do not!

[Sig]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I would say no sex is entirely normal in western marriages after the woman has popped a couple of kids (or over age 40). Which is why we're all in Thailand. 

That's an interesting conclusion. Not sure how you came to that conclusion, but interesting. I have not heard of that situation from any friend back home, except one who is an absolutely <deleted> husband and father and on top of that, his wife suffers psychologically from being sexually abused by her father at a young age and my friend doesn't do much AT ALL to try making things better... They have a horrible marriage. They are 70 years old, I don't believe any of the others I know are under 40. Probably all at the very least, 45+. The ones you refer to sound like they must be pretty unhappy marriages. It sure doesn't sound normal AT ALL.
But your comment intrigued me, so I did a quick search...
Just for the heck of it, I'll share a couple of quotes:
"...researchers at the Kinsey Institute found... Those in the 40 to 49 age group manage to have sex only 69 times per year..." https://www.medicaldaily.com/am-i-normal-average-sex-frequency-week-linked-age-421328
They didn't show stats beyond the age of 49.

"... the decline with age is not a very pronounced one. Married 30-year-olds report a sexual frequency (about 1.5 times per week) not dramatically different from that of married 50-year-olds (about once a week). By contrast, never-married singles report notably less sex at every age. So neither marriage nor advancing age spells the end of a consistent sexual relationship."  http://relationshipsinamerica.com/relationships-and-sex/how-often-do-americans-have-sex

They also didn't show any stat over this age other than a graph that showed an expected slight decline.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Sig said:

"...researchers at the Kinsey Institute found... Those in the 40 to 49 age group manage to have sex only 69 times per year..." https://www.medicaldaily.com/am-i-normal-average-sex-frequency-week-linked-age-421328
They didn't show stats beyond the age of 49.

"... the decline with age is not a very pronounced one. Married 30-year-olds report a sexual frequency (about 1.5 times per week) not dramatically different from that of married 50-year-olds (about once a week).

My personal experience,

After age 40 in the UK, once a month or less, all my pals admitted to the same restrictions.

After age 52 in Thailand, 3x a day for the first 2 years dropping to 2x a week at age 65.

 

I certainly didn't feel my marriage in the UK was anything but normal.

I'd agree that 1.5x a week as a 30 year old would probably be normal in the UK, but due to restrictions by the female partner, not due to any lack of desire from the male partner.

 

I don't believe I ever bettered 3x a week with a western woman, as a single or as a married. If I wanted more, I had to run another woman (or two) on the side. I'd estimate 3 dates = 1x sex, more dates in a week with the same woman didn't get better results..

Edited March 22, 2021 by BritManToo

[Sig]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My personal experience,

After age 40 in the UK, once a month or less, all my pals admitted to the same restrictions.

After age 52 in Thailand, 3x a day for the first 2 years dropping to 2x a week at age 65.

 

I certainly didn't feel my marriage in the UK was anything but normal.

Interesting. I suppose there could be a large difference between the U.K. and America. But that's a pretty huge difference! That would definitely be out of any norm I've ever heard of from friends with decent marriages back home in America. And 3x a day is definitely amazingly far outside of the norm on the other end of the spectrum! Sounds tiring, even at 52! Maybe when I was in my 40's? But even then... wow, 3x/day, 21x/week, 1,095x/year hahaha Everybody's different, that's for sure! Glad you're resting a bit more now ????

[KarenBravo]

6 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

 

There is one very large problem in Thai/ foreigner relationships as opposed to one-night stands and that is the language. Most women in Thailand, educated or not will not speak English well enough for every-day conversation, which places a strain on understanding, making joint  decisions about anything and for a healthy exchange of feelings.

 

 

Here's a novel idea. Let the man learn Thai..........after all, he is in Thailand and it can be quite useful.

It also negates the need to drag the wife around with you where ever you go for translator services. Oh.....and the Thais love it.

[ChrisKC]

30 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

 

Here's a novel idea. Let the man learn Thai..........after all, he is in Thailand and it can be quite useful.

It also negates the need to drag the wife around with you where ever you go for translator services. Oh.....and the Thais love it.

You are absolutely right. But please consider this: many serious relationships start in English, especially those that start online. You each probably saw a profile in English and responded accordingly. If the relationship blossoms then it may well be there is/should be equal responsibility for both parties to learn the language of the other. But I know in real life that the relationship can develop quickly as in many cases she has something you want and gives it, and you have something she wants and you give it. I think you know what I mean.

Yes, there are good relationships to be had that have a language problem between them but they muddle through and their special chemistry can overcome that.

 

You are right again about the man learning Thai. But he says often he can't or won't but that doesn't stop the relationship anyway and later,  difficulties will arise from the many misunderstandings that will occur. This is the point I am making to the OP.

If the OP is intending only to having "women passing through his bed" - the point of the language is unnecessary

 

My personal relationship is in English - we achieve everything we need to as if it was with an English native speaker. Although I don't "drag" my wife anywhere, I do seek her help in circumstances with Thai situations in which my level of Thai language is lacking!

[mikecha]

Utter <deleted> posting l your life story  like that

either you stay or go 

[Hanuman2547]

What do your 17 & 15 year old think of your extended stays in Asia?  Do they ever ask you, "Gee Dad, what did you do that whole time you were gone?"  They are probably a lot smarter than you give them credit for.  

If you do go down that road of dumping your family keep in mind that you will probably get run through the wringer of Canadian divorce courts.  Paying your wife alimony for quite a long time and also your kids university education as well will have a serious drain on your financial situation.

You've had your little Asian fling, mid-life crisis, or what ever else you want to call it.  Now, just get on with your regular life.  Perhaps some anti-depressant medication might help.  See your Dr.  

[ChaiyaTH]

You are not looking for advice and you already know that you want to do this.  You just try to get confirmations as this is the first time in a long time, you have to decide on your own.

The only thing that is relevant is having enough finances, ideally you do not want to work here at all unless it is like Online. If you still liked it during covid, you likely really like it here. 

By not doing it you will regret it on your death bed, like most people. 1/4 guys doesn't even make it to 65.

Guess it just might be wise to wait until both are 18 years old at least, prepare it properly etc.

Edited March 22, 2021 by ChaiyaTH

[DerbyDan]

8 hours ago, mikecha said:

Utter <deleted> posting l your life story  like that

either you stay or go 

 

I would add that whatever choice he makes, he owns it.

 

What that means is, no complaining about it to everyone he meets if get's stuck in Thailand and it does not work out.

[fredwiggy]

16 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I would say no sex is entirely normal in western marriages after the woman has popped a couple of kids (or over age 40). Which is why we're all in Thailand. 

How can you assume how things are in any other person's household? What you hear is mostly bu**<deleted>. I myself can only know what happened in my earlier marriage. We had sex every week, as many as four times, all through our 7 years together, and I was in my late 50's to early 60's. She was in her late 40's. When a woman has children, yes, her priorities change, becoming a nurturer, but that doesn't mean she doesn't want intimacy. Quite the opposite. After having a child, a lot want their husbands back, because their self esteem is often lost because of their body changes. If you neglect your wife, she is less likely to want to be intimate with you. If you neglect yourself and don't take care of yourself, that's another reason.

[BritManToo]

45 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

If you neglect your wife, she is less likely to want to be intimate with you. If you neglect yourself and don't take care of yourself, that's another reason.

You're right, everything is the man's fault, only men make marriages fail, women bear no responsibility for anything negative that happens in their lives.

 

You're on your fourth marriage?

[fredwiggy]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You're right, everything is the man's fault, only men make marriages fail, women bear no responsibility for anything negative that happens in their lives.

 

You're on your fourth marriage?

Where have I ever said everything is the man's fault? You need to read thoroughly the post before you comment. Every failure in any marriage is usually tied to lack of communication, which brings about all problems. It doesn't matter how many times you get married. and I haven't been married 4 times, but what you bring to the marriage and how you treat your partner. I have been with women that are narcissists, and if you know anything about that personality disorder, they have no ability to love and hurt those close to them, taking out their pent up childhood anger on those they need the most. That, along with depression, has caused the problems in my marriages. Hers, not mine. I tried to help, but they have to take the steps involved. You yourself have said many times before, you left your children in the UK because you didn't care, and this lead to them not wanting any contact with you. Then coming here and making more kids, and paying for the women you are with. Your words, not mine, and to each his own, but commenting on posts like you know how to make a normal relationship work isn't helping anyone. It takes two people working on a relationship for it to work, and both have to come into the relationship with as little baggage as possible, or at least where your past remains in the past so you can go forward without bringing it up in your present relationship. A man that treats a woman well, and provides everything they NEED, and has problems with that woman, is in a relationship with a woman that has problems unresolved. Same goes for a man.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Every failure in any marriage is usually tied to lack of communication, which brings about all problems. It doesn't matter how many times you get married. and I haven't been married 4 times, but what you bring to the marriage and how you treat your partner.

If I'd been married 4x, I probably wouldn't be handing out relationship advice.

It seems to me your choices aren't good ones, even though you've got God on your side.

 

My relationships are just fine, after the first failure I've learned to limit how much they can take when they leave. Value for money is the most important consideration in a man's life IMHO.

 

No need to lie or deceive, you can be totally honest with the ladies,

"this is what I will give and this is what I expect in return, if you demand more, or provide less, then I respect your decision to move on with my best wishes".

Edited March 23, 2021 by BritManToo

[fredwiggy]

Just now, BritManToo said:

If I'd been married 4x, I probably wouldn't be handing out relationship advice.

It seems to me your choices aren't good ones. 

I haven't been married 4 times. And yes, I've made some bad choices in women. I've studied relationship books for years and like I said, you can know everything you need to know, but if you choose the wrong partner, which is based primarily on attraction at first, and you go too fast, all the knowledge in the world won't change the other person. Many professional counselors have had failed marriages. This is because they too make choices based on attraction, and go too fast before they get to know the person.

[BritManToo]

Just now, fredwiggy said:

I haven't been married 4 times. And yes, I've made some bad choices in women. I've studied relationship books for years and like I said, you can know everything you need to know, but if you choose the wrong partner, which is based primarily on attraction at first, and you go too fast, all the knowledge in the world won't change the other person. Many professional counselors have had failed marriages. This is because they too make choices based on attraction, and go too fast before they get to know the person.

I would say choices based on attraction are the only worthwhile choices.

Suggesting you should only have relationships with women you don't find attractive is just wrong. At 65, if I waited that long before making a choice, I'd probably be dead.

Edited March 23, 2021 by BritManToo

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I would say choices based on attraction are the only worthwhile choices.

Suggesting you should only have relationships with women you don't find attractive is just wrong. At 65, if I waited that long before making a choice, I'd probably be dead.

All relationships are first based on physical attraction. If you're not attracted physically at first, nothing else will be enough. Some people start as friends, and aren't readily attracted to each other at first, but when they spend a lot of good time together, attraction to the person becomes strong and even if they aren't that physically attracted, they can become very close and then the physical happens. If you aren't emotionally attracted to a woman, the physical will never be enough to stay. Everyone gets bored with their partner at times, but if you build a solid relationship, the stability, trust and friendship will make the hard times easier. Most relationships fail because they don't invest in each other as a person. Looks always fade. Serial relationships are only good in the beginning. A true friendship with a lover is the hardest thing to find.

[Artless]

Apologies for taking so long to respond. I have been lurking silently, monitoring the thread for new posts each day.  The degree of negative narrow-viewed assumptions and toxicity in this thread (and in this forum in general, if I'm honest) have repeatedly given me pause, making it largely undesirable to continue attempting to seek the qualities of presence and attunement I think I need from the men who have gone down this path before me. 

 

Having said that, I wish to express my sincere thanks to those of you who have provided thoughtful replies, especially those who have shared the requested first-hand personal experiences, all of which I read quite carefully numerous times, trying to imagine the areas in which our psychology and experiences would likely align or differ.

 

 

This topic appears to be very polarizing due to the stark contrast in value systems that are present.  Marriage and family are certainly important, which is why I have spent 25 years in service of them. On the other hand, personal needs and self fulfilment are also important.  This contrasting values and  perspectives  present in  this very thread form a perfect analog to the conflict in my own system.  I have been carefully contemplating this for two years now, continually seeking to find the strength to fully let go of one side or the other.  I know this is not a decision to be made lightly.

 

As it happens, I'm currently seeking employment thanks to a Covid-19-related office closure that resulted in middle management like myself being given the boot.  I'll be casting a geogeaphically wide net, and perhaps I will receive an offer that I cannot refuse which will help me resolve the situation. Furthermore, I believe I need to have at least one more sincere (however painful) conversation with my wife about this entire situation to see if we can find another compromise that will keep everything together.

 

Thank you all once again. I will be sure to return sometime in the future when I have something to report.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/21/2021 at 1:21 PM, Artless said:

 I developed numerous deep and emotional long term relationships during these trips, some of which continue through to today even though I left there in August. 

IMO, no you didn't. Few people develop even one deep and emotional long term relationship in their life, and IMO the chance of numerous is delusional..

You left 7 months ago which on the relationship scale is a mere blink of an eye. IMO you had a really great thing with women from another culture and hanker to live like that forever, which is understandable. If you have enough money, yes you can, but do you have enough money to live like that for the rest of your days?

 

On 3/21/2021 at 1:21 PM, Artless said:

I focussed on dating the sort of women who had educations and careers and who were interested in developing a genuine relationship with a foreigner. 

Those sort of women are generally not interested in farangs, preferring to marry a Thai man, but there may be exceptions.

 

On 3/21/2021 at 1:21 PM, Artless said:

Trust me, I was there for long enough and met all kinds of women, and quickly learned how to tell the difference.)

LOL. If I took your post seriously at the start, that certainly cured me of that opinion.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/27/2021 at 2:56 PM, Artless said:

Apologies for taking so long to respond. I have been lurking silently, monitoring the thread for new posts each day.  The degree of negative narrow-viewed assumptions and toxicity in this thread (and in this forum in general, if I'm honest) have repeatedly given me pause, making it largely undesirable to continue attempting to seek the qualities of presence and attunement I think I need from the men who have gone down this path before me. 

Plenty of western men have gone down the well trodden path of "falling in love with a Thai woman" only to end up broke and broken. I've been down that path myself, got the T shirt, and live to regret the first time I ever said hello back to the little temptress.

No matter how clever we think we are, no matter how well we think we are prepared for the game, they win every time, IMO.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/23/2021 at 11:19 PM, BritManToo said:

I would say choices based on attraction are the only worthwhile choices.

Suggesting you should only have relationships with women you don't find attractive is just wrong. At 65, if I waited that long before making a choice, I'd probably be dead.

I always avoided attractive women in LOS. For starters they think they are special, they are usually high maintenance, and every guy that they meet will be hitting on them, which would be very annoying. My wife was no Miss Thailand contender, but she still got hit on all the time anyway.

Not that she was actually ugly, but just not a great beauty. I certainly had no problem waking up next to her in the morning.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I always avoided attractive women in LOS. For starters they think they are special, they are usually high maintenance, and every guy that they meet will be hitting on them, which would be very annoying. My wife was no Miss Thailand contender, but she still got hit on all the time anyway.

Mine were all 9s or 10s and everyone (Thai and foreigner) hit on them all the time.

I never had a problem with that, they were always free to leave anytime they wanted, it wasn't as if there was any lack of attractive women who would sleep/live with me and I never gave any more than I was prepared to lose.

 

I didn't consider it a win or a lose, I saw one woman moving on as an opportunity to move in with a younger and prettier lady.

Edited March 29, 2021 by BritManToo

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Mine were all 9s or 10s and everyone (Thai and foreigner) hit on them all the time.

I never had a problem with that, they were always free to leave anytime they wanted, it wasn't as if there was any lack of attractive women who would sleep/live with me and I never gave any more than I was prepared to lose.

 

I didn't consider it a win or a lose, I saw one woman moving on as an opportunity to move in with a younger and prettier lady.

It took a lot of time and interviews to find one I actually wanted to spend time with, so I'd choose one that was attractive enough but not too attractive, and put up with some BS to keep them. Given I was only with them a couple of times a year I didn't want to waste time looking for one to take to the beach for a couple of weeks. My first lasted 4 years, and the second 8. Then I got married. Then the fat lady sang.

 

When I first arrived in LOS I did fall into the trap of thinking that the best looking would be the best in bed, but soon learned that wasn't so.

[BritManToo]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

When I first arrived in LOS I did fall into the trap of thinking that the best looking would be the best in bed, but soon learned that wasn't so.

The one you marry/live with never ends up being the best in bed.

And let's face it, do you really want a 'dirty girl' to be the mother of your children?

I've always found a female who was 'adventurous in bed' to be way too mad to live with.

 

These sort of girls aren't keepers, they're 1 hour rentals.

Edited March 30, 2021 by BritManToo

[fredwiggy]

32 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The one you marry/live with never ends up being the best in bed.

And let's face it, do you really want a 'dirty girl' to be the mother of your children?

I've always found a female who was 'adventurous in bed' to be way too mad to live with.

 

These sort of girls aren't keepers, they're 1 hour rentals.

Misconceptions aplenty here. When you treat your wife well, and if she's not a narcissist or has other mental issues, she will be the best bed partner you can have. Paying for sex isn't what makes a partner but a transaction. I've had a couple of wives and they were by far the best intimate partners I've had, out of many before.  sad that the best is a narcissist. Care brings pleasure. Paying only gets you fake. They're doing it for money and not for how you treat them. A lot of the best looking women for sure are so much into themselves that they think you owe them for some reason. After they've been with a few men, that automatically puts them into the category of used, and then they get <deleted> off at every man afterwards, especially if they don't measure up to their "standards".

 

[BritManToo]

Just now, fredwiggy said:

After they've been with a few men, that automatically puts them into the category of used,

Dinosaurs are still alive and well!

 

[Leaver]

On 3/30/2021 at 7:09 AM, BritManToo said:

These sort of girls aren't keepers, they're 1 hour rentals.

 

Everything in Thailand is a rental only for farang.  The only question is, how long is the lease?  ????

[madmen]

On 3/21/2021 at 12:07 PM, Sticky Rice Balls said:

Hello everyone. Long time reader, first time poster

Translated..= Banned and making the usual comeback with a 1000 word essay first post. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/30/2021 at 1:09 PM, BritManToo said:

The one you marry/live with never ends up being the best in bed.

And let's face it, do you really want a 'dirty girl' to be the mother of your children?

I've always found a female who was 'adventurous in bed' to be way too mad to live with.

 

These sort of girls aren't keepers, they're 1 hour rentals.

Didn't want to have children. I only married my wife because she accepted not going to have any with me.