EU blames AstraZeneca as vaccine battle with UK deepens

[polpott]

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Well about the importance of sovereign rights in  UK success, we do have an assessment of the real reason.. 

 

When asked about the reason for the UK's vaccine success Boris Johnson answered "greed and capitalism"

 

'Greed' and 'capitalism' helped UK's vaccines success, says PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56504546

You have already posted this once and its ben explained to you more than once. Why are you posting it again? Got nothing else?

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

I use it as an avatar and the bear necessities of life was sung by Baloo the bear voiced by Phil Harris.

Got it ????

[Hi from France]

3 minutes ago, polpott said:

You have already posted this once and its ben explained to you more than once. Why are you posting it again? Got nothing else?

Browser cache issue I think 

[Hi from France]

Just now, Hi from France said:

Same here, and I like the (unrelated but fun) picture as well ????

 

Oooops

 

Oxford did very well in research, the NHS was nothing short of extraordinary 

 

but grabbing first vaccine production and exporting nothing was capitalism and greed. 

 

After breaking we are again warned about the new reality of Britain.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source

 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/23/greed-and-capitalism-behind-jab-success-boris-johnson-tells-mps

[KhaoYai]

8 hours ago, Victornoir said:

 

You should relearn the story from the right sources and avoid blandly repeating English propaganda.
It was the Russians who defeated the Nazi army. You attempted an intervention belatedly which ended in the frantic flight from Dunkirk.

The Americans have finally decided on their final massive intervention essentially to help victory, to prevent the Russians from conquering all of Europe.

 

Of course, these words are irrelevant on the AZ subject, but they show your lack of reference and disqualify you from giving an objective opinion on this new EU / UK conflict.

Thanks for that history lesson. I never knew the Russians liberated France.

[Surelynot]

6 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Thanks for that history lesson. I never knew the Russians liberated France.

Dunkirk was the spring/summer of 1940....very early on....an expeditionary force.....not really much to do with the war proper!!!

Edited March 25, 2021 by Surelynot

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Thanks for that history lesson. I never knew the Russians liberated France.

Or North Africa, nor the skies over France. The US entered the war in 1943. By then Stalingrad, Battle of Britain and El Alamein had all been won and the Germans were in retreat on all fronts.

[KhaoYai]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

You are effectively saying that countries shouldn't have the right to impose export control, right?

No they shouldn't and without a new law, the UK doesn't and can't do that.  Vaccine producers are private companies not state institutions and as such cannot be told what to do providing they stay within the law. The law in the EU must be different but its not here.

 

We might all learn from this mess though - maybe future vaccine production should be carried by states on a multi national basis.

[candide]

9 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

The EU's regulator approved the AZ vaccine - some EU members suspended it if you want to me to be 100% accurate. Sorry but the EU is supposed to be a group so when I say EU I mean all of them, collectively or individually.

Health policy is by large outside the prerogatives of the EU. So it is quite normal that member States may behave differently. They have different organisations, decision processes and also different laws re safety. For example France has a "precautionary principle" as law, which means the government can be sued even if a lack of precaution did not result in adverse consequences.

So no, they are not supposed to behave as a group in the absence of a formal agreement to do so.

It's just your obsession to blame the EU.

[KhaoYai]

19 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Dunkirk was the spring/summer of 1940....very early on....an expeditionary force.....not really much to do with the war proper!!!

I think you quoted the wrong person.

[Hi from France]

9 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

 

How do we know it is?  How do you explain Germany only being able to use 10% of the AZ stock they hold?

 

A follow-up

 

I suppose you have been looking for a credible source for your 10% claim 

 

I can help with data from the BBC 

 

Quote

As of 22 March, France has distributed 1.4 million out of 2.7 million doses available, while Germany received 3.4 million but has used only 1.8 million. The Netherlands has used only 38% of its supply.

https://www.bbc.com/news/56483766

 

So three days ago when we just started the jabs again the AZ France and Germany had used 50% of the doses they got.

 

You can look for today data if you want to revise your claim. 

 

 

AFAIK, as of today the USA is still at 0% AZ injected and tens of millions in storage. 

 

I hope the EU - USA summit tomorrow will help putting this stockpile to good use, would you agree on this? Do you think the USA should give their doses to the UK first?

 

Right now, in France we have about 500 deaths per day and the 100.000 victims toll will be reached by the next days/weeks. 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

54 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

After breaking twice the Withdrawal Agreement a few months after signing it we are again warned about the new reality of Britain.. 

May I remind you this is not about Brexit - not from the UK's side anyway.  You will probably find that a great many people in the UK object to Johnson breaking the withdrawal agreement.

Edited March 25, 2021 by KhaoYai

[candide]

6 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

No they shouldn't and without a new law, the UK doesn't and can't do that.  Vaccine producers are private companies not state institutions and as such cannot be told what to do providing they stay within the law. The law in the EU must be different but its not here.

 

We might all learn from this mess though - maybe future vaccine production should be carried by states on a multi national basis.

UK already has a law about it. It just needs to add vaccines to the list.

Drug exports restricted 'to protect NHS patients'

Published 2 October 2019

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-49907056

[KhaoYai]

2 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I suppose you have been looking for a credible source for your 10% claim 

 

I can help with data from the BBC 

You are quoting from very recent data. I was referring to the time when Germany suspended use of the AZ vaccine for over 65's.  I wasn't looking for a 'credible source' - I posted that in another thread over a week ago..

[KhaoYai]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

UK already has a law about it. It just needs to add vaccines to the list.

Which would mean a new statute - the UK government cannot simply change the law as it wishes.

 

I don't know how the law works in European countries but in the UK the law is above the government - and that's how it should be.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

9 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I hope the EU - USA summit tomorrow will help putting this stockpile to good use, would you agree on this? Do you think the USA should give their doses to the UK first?

I know nothing of the situation in the USA - they are not part of this discussion, even though various attempts have been made to bring them into it.

 

But for what its worth, I can't see the USA giving up any of its vaccine stock and if they do, there are more deserving countries.  The UK is well advanced in its vaccine programme and I think that when the Sabre Rattling stops, the EU and the UK will work out their own problems.

[John Drake]

20 hours ago, AlexRich said:

The AstraZeneca vaccine is the only one that is being offered at cost price. Every other pharma company is pricing for a profit.

 

This is false. Why are you passing on disinformation?

 

Quote

Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 Vaccine Authorized by U.S. FDA For Emergency Use - First Single-Shot Vaccine in Fight Against Global Pandemic

Data demonstrated protection against COVID-19 related hospitalization and death, across countries with different variants

 

Available on not-for-profit basis for emergency pandemic use    https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-authorized-by-u-s-fda-for-emergency-usefirst-single-shot-vaccine-in-fight-against-global-pandemic

 

[Hi from France]

20 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

May I remind you this is not about Brexit - not from the UK's side anyway.  You will probably find that a great many people in the UK object to Johnson breaking the withdrawal agreement.

I for one believe that the UK would have done exactly the same if they had been in the EU. 

 

• Approve the vaccines very fast 
• Grab every available production as its own, leaving zero to the rest of the world 

 

The fun thing is since the UK is now out of the single market, we can do something about it and stop exporting to what just became a "third country". 

 

If the UK had remained (or just delayed effective Brexit by a few months because of the pandemic), we could do absolutely nothing about it. 

 

 

So I think this is also about Brexit, but maybe not in the way you think? 

 

 

 

 

Nb: there is a good op-ed in the Guardian trying to analyse the Brexit/vaccine situation from the POV of the European Union. If you want, we can read it together and comment . 

 

. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Hi from France

[Surelynot]

21 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I think you quoted the wrong person.

Yes...sorry...taking a quote from a quote....my bad....as the kids says.

[KhaoYai]

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Nb: there is a good op-ed in the Guardian trying to analyse the Brexit/vaccine situation from the POV of the European Union. If you want we, can read and debate on it. 

No thanks.

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

AFAIK, as of today the USA is still at 0% AZ injected and tens of millions in storage. 

 

I hope the EU - USA summit tomorrow will help putting this stockpile to good use, would you agree on this? Do you think the USA should give their doses to the UK first?

 

Right now, in France we have about 500 deaths per day and the 100.000 victims toll will be reached by the next days/weeks. 

 

 

Last time France had 500 deaths was 9th Feb, since then its been in decline. As a side note on the 9th of Feb the UK had over 1000 deaths although the decline for them is far better due to vaccines, lockdowns and treatments.

 

The US stockpile may have some benefit to France if they agree although I would guess the third world would also be high on their agenda.

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Mmmm...not too sure it was a joke.......unless he has been making the same joke for a number of years......his previous speeches contain the same or similar argument.

Yes, sorry but talking purely in terms of Boris Johnson, I tend to believe it was a private comment that he actually meant but tried to say it was a joke when it became public.

 

I don't think that would change any part of this debate - I am simply referring to the man, not the country.

[candide]

16 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Which would mean a new statute - the UK government cannot simply change the law as it wishes.

 

I don't know how the law works in European countries but in the UK the law is above the government - and that's how it should be.

 

 

I am not an expert in UK system, so no reason not to believe you. However, it seems that other British posters were not considering it would be difficult to implement. By curiosity, what do you think would be the approximate ( order of magnitude) time needed to pass and implement such a law?

[candide]

Double posting

Edited March 25, 2021 by candide

[KhaoYai]

I would just like to point out to our European members that a large proportion of the UK electorate are appalled by Boris Johnsons ever growing nationalism - and I suspect that includes some who once supported him.

 

However, in relation to this topic, whilst we may not support his reasoning, we do support the actions that have resulted from it in this particular case.

 

As I have pointed out before, I am not anti-EU, I consider myself European.  I am however, anti-wrong doing and in this case I strongly believe the EU are in the wrong.  They would get my backing against the UK in any matter where I think the UK is in the wrong. I am not a nationalist and I cannot tolerate such thinking.

[KhaoYai]

8 minutes ago, candide said:

I am not an expert in UK system, so no reason not to believe you. However, it seems that other British posters were not considering it would be difficult to implement. By curiosity, what do you think would be the approximate ( order of magnitude) time needed to pass and implement such a law?

I have no idea to be honest - I haven't researched it.  Things are different at the moment as the UK falls under the emergency powers provided by the Corona Virus Bill which lasts for 2 years.  That gives the UK government much more power to enact new laws almost immedieately.  It is not however, without scrutiny but I believe it allows for the scrutiny to come later than the law which is the reverse of the normal way.

 

In short, to answer your question, probably not very long.

[Hi from France]

6 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

As I have pointed out before, I am not anti-EU, I consider myself European.  I am however, anti-wrong doing and in this case I strongly believe the EU are in the wrong.  They would get my backing against the UK in any matter where I think the UK is in the wrong. I am not a nationalist and I cannot tolerate such thinking.

Well if one day you want to discuss the Op-ed about Brexit and vaccine, you'll see some of the 27 agree with you ????

[KhaoYai]

Just now, Hi from France said:

Well if one day you want to discuss the Op-ed about Brexit and vaccine, you'll see some of the 27 agree with you

I already knew that, Belgium, Holland.............. etc. etc.  I said I didn't want to debate it, not that I wasn't aware of it.

[Hi from France]

14 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I already knew that, Belgium, Holland.............. etc. etc.  I said I didn't want to debate it, not that I wasn't aware of it.

Fine

 

I hope I'll find someone else willing to discuss this matter 

[billd766]

11 hours ago, Victornoir said:

 

You should relearn the story from the right sources and avoid blandly repeating English propaganda.
It was the Russians who defeated the Nazi army. You attempted an intervention belatedly which ended in the frantic flight from Dunkirk.

The Americans have finally decided on their final massive intervention essentially to help victory, to prevent the Russians from conquering all of Europe.

 

Of course, these words are irrelevant on the AZ subject, but they show your lack of reference and disqualify you from giving an objective opinion on this new EU / UK conflict.

 I apologise for going off topic but posts like this really annoy me.

 

Really? And what did the Russians use to fight with? Have you ever heard of the Arctic convoys where British merchant ships with British crews delivered lease/lend tanks, trucks, aircraft, munitions etc to Murmansk during 1941/42 to rearm the Russian armies.

 

Perhaps it is you who should read up on WW2 history.

 

BTW where were the Russians when France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Norway, Greece, Albania, Yugoslavia, Italy etc were recovered by the British, Commonwealth, Canadian, ANZAC, Free Polish, Free French, Free Belgian, American troops? 

 

You might try asking the older generation of Eastern Germany, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia etc what they thought of their Russian "liberators".

 

How many Russians were involved in recovering North Africa?

 

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviets-declare-war-on-japan-invade-manchuria#:~:text=On August 8%2C 1945%2C the,the 700%2C000-strong Japanese army.&text=Japan had not been too,Germans on the Eastern front.

 

How many Russian troops were involved in the Pacific war until August 8, 1945, the Soviet Union officially declares war on Japan, pouring more than 1 million Soviet soldiers into Japanese-occupied Manchuria, northeastern China, to take on the 700,000-strong Japanese army.

Edited March 25, 2021 by billd766