EU blames AstraZeneca as vaccine battle with UK deepens

[polpott]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

The fun thing is since the UK is now out of the single market, we can do something about it and stop exporting to what just became a "third country". 

Sorry but you can't do anything. You will do what the Germans tell you to do. End of.

[JustAnotherHun]

Latest news in Germany is what Matt Hancock told the Financial Times (behind paywall).

 

Still any doubt about, who the professional negotiators in this game were and who the bloody amateurs?

 

The EU-buerocrats and Ursula -the living desaster - van der Leyen, who obviously are not capable to understand the contracts they are signing?

No, no, no, it ain't me babe ????

 

[polpott]

1 minute ago, Victornoir said:

 

Some battles actually won in North Africa after a multitude of defeats. 1941-42.

The real defeat of the Nazis took place from January 1944, against the Red Army. (Eastern front)
Inexorable advance of the Russians stopped only by the Americans in Berlin in May 1945 after Hitler's suicide.
The German surrender was signed with the Americans in Reins on May 7, but Stalin demanded the same surrender signature on May 9 in Berlin.

Let us recognize the Bravery of the British soldiers in this sad episode but it is wrong to say that they saved France.

 

Sorry for the irrelevance but social media is also used to fight propaganda misconceptions

Which history of WW2 did you read? One written by DE Gaulle? What a joke. My father fought in North Africa, you haven't got a clue.

 

Stalingrad was the decisive battle on the Eastern front August 42 to February 43. The Germans did nothing but retreat on the Eastern front from that date on.

[candide]

Finally!

https://www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-asks-for-certification-of-halix-vaccine-plant-in-netherlands/

[david555]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1414768/EU-news-David-Sassoli-UK-vaccine-sanction-AstraZeneca-Covid19-jab-latest-vn

'We're not a punching bag!' EU hits back at vaccine rivals and threatens 'sanctions'
EUROPEAN Parliament president David Sassoli warned "sanctions will be necessary" to hit back at major Covid vaccine delays.

By AURORA BOSOTTI
PUBLISHED: 13:49, Thu, Mar 25, 2021 | UPDATED: 14:04, Thu, Mar 25, 2021

 

 

President Sassoli insisted the European Union is not a "punching bag" and will no longer accept obstacles to its common vaccination programme. Brussels has been threatening to impose stricter control on the exports of the coronavirus vaccine from the bloc to third-countries after suffering severe delays in delivering the jab to its own citizens. AstraZeneca has sparked particular fury from the EU after European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen claimed the Anglo-Swedish company had been reneging on its contractual obligations tow

Mr Sassoli insisted the EU "must ensure contractual obligations from pharmaceutical companies are respected." He added: "We cannot allow for any distraction in this phase."

 

The European Parliament president also commended the European Commission for the hard stance taken on the extension of export sanctions, saying they were going "in the right direction." Mr Sassoli said: "There needs to be reciprocity and proportionality.

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, Victornoir said:

Let us recognize the Bravery of the British soldiers in this sad episode but it is wrong to say that they saved France.

The British were the only ones that stood up to the Nazi's in the first place. The Russians were actually Germany's ally for the first 2 years of the war.

[CG1 Blue]

46 minutes ago, david555 said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1414768/EU-news-David-Sassoli-UK-vaccine-sanction-AstraZeneca-Covid19-jab-latest-vn

'We're not a punching bag!' EU hits back at vaccine rivals and threatens 'sanctions'
EUROPEAN Parliament president David Sassoli warned "sanctions will be necessary" to hit back at major Covid vaccine delays.

By AURORA BOSOTTI
PUBLISHED: 13:49, Thu, Mar 25, 2021 | UPDATED: 14:04, Thu, Mar 25, 2021

 

 

President Sassoli insisted the European Union is not a "punching bag" and will no longer accept obstacles to its common vaccination programme. Brussels has been threatening to impose stricter control on the exports of the coronavirus vaccine from the bloc to third-countries after suffering severe delays in delivering the jab to its own citizens. AstraZeneca has sparked particular fury from the EU after European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen claimed the Anglo-Swedish company had been reneging on its contractual obligations tow

Mr Sassoli insisted the EU "must ensure contractual obligations from pharmaceutical companies are respected." He added: "We cannot allow for any distraction in this phase."

 

The European Parliament president also commended the European Commission for the hard stance taken on the extension of export sanctions, saying they were going "in the right direction." Mr Sassoli said: "There needs to be reciprocity and proportionality.

I find this sabre rattling from the EU quite sad. If we exclude AstraZeneca from this argument surely the EU have enough resources, skills and expertise available to vaccinate their citizens without the help of an Anglo-Swedish company? Again I think this aggression is all an attempt to hide their own incompetency. 

 

From the same article:

 

Former European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker urged the European Union to step back from waging a "stupid vaccine war" with the UK.

He warned that threatening export bans could cause "major reputational damage" to the bloc as EU leaders held discussions on tightening restrictions to supplies of coronavirus jabs.

 

 

[david555]

19 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I find this sabre rattling from the EU quite sad. If we exclude AstraZeneca from this argument surely the EU have enough resources, skills and expertise available to vaccinate their citizens without the help of an Anglo-Swedish company? Again I think this aggression is all an attempt to hide their own incompetency. 

 

From the same article:

 

Former European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker urged the European Union to step back from waging a "stupid vaccine war" with the UK.

He warned that threatening export bans could cause "major reputational damage" to the bloc as EU leaders held discussions on tightening restrictions to supplies of coronavirus jabs.

 

 

 (Good to see  our Juncker is now a good guy for the brexiteers  ...... ????  )

 

EU leaders push back against bloc's plans to halt Covid vaccine exports | Coronavirus | The Guardian

 

EU leaders push back against bloc's plans to halt Covid vaccine exports
More sceptical member states hope ‘stick will never be used’ amid concerns over supply chain

Daniel Boffey in Brussels
Thu 25 Mar 2021 09.19 GMT

 

EU leaders are likely to shy away from supporting the use of new powers to block Covid vaccine shipments to countries with better jab coverage such as the UK, according to a draft statement before a meeting of the bloc’s heads of state and government..

 

The European commission has increased its scope for blocking vaccine exports but disquiet among member states is set to be reflected in a muted statement at the end of the virtual summit on Thursday evening.

 

The latest draft summit conclusion has leaders underlining “the importance of transparency as well as of the use of export  authorisations”.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by david555

[Hi from France]

6 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Last time France had 500 deaths was 9th Feb, since then its been in decline. As a side note on the 9th of Feb the UK had over 1000 deaths although the decline for them is far better due to vaccines, lockdowns and treatments.

this is right (chart = daily deaths in FR) Public domain data

Quote

The US stockpile may have some benefit to France if they agree although I would guess the third world would also be high on their agenda.

I hope so

 

 

data source : https://covidtracker.fr/covidtracker-france/

 

.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Hi from France

[david555]

 (This sure go have an impacts on another matter running .... ???? )

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1414878/EU-vaccine-news-Novavax-delay-contract-european-union-US-UK-deal-covid-jab-doses

EU faces MORE vaccine chaos as Novavax deal delayed - UK has already secured 60m doses
THE EU's chaotic vaccine rollout effort has been dealt another crushing blow after it was revealed Novavax was delaying signing a contract to supply its COVID-19 vaccine to the the bloc

 

By CIARAN MCGRATH
PUBLISHED: 16:50, Thu, Mar 25, 2021 | UPDATED: 16:54, Thu, Mar 25, 2021

An EU official involved in the talks made the revelation after the U.S. biotech company warned it was struggling to source some raw materials.

UK trials have indicated Novavax's jab has an 89 percent effectiveness rate.

Prolonging the talks might further complicate the EU's vaccination plans as the bloc had planned to sign a deal early this year for at least 100 million doses of Novavax's vaccine, with an option for another 100 million.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by david555

[CG1 Blue]

11 minutes ago, david555 said:

 (This sure go have an impacts on another matter running .... ???? )

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1414878/EU-vaccine-news-Novavax-delay-contract-european-union-US-UK-deal-covid-jab-doses

EU faces MORE vaccine chaos as Novavax deal delayed - UK has already secured 60m doses
THE EU's chaotic vaccine rollout effort has been dealt another crushing blow after it was revealed Novavax was delaying signing a contract to supply its COVID-19 vaccine to the the bloc

 

By CIARAN MCGRATH
PUBLISHED: 16:50, Thu, Mar 25, 2021 | UPDATED: 16:54, Thu, Mar 25, 2021

An EU official involved in the talks made the revelation after the U.S. biotech company warned it was struggling to source some raw materials.

UK trials have indicated Novavax's jab has an 89 percent effectiveness rate.

Prolonging the talks might further complicate the EU's vaccination plans as the bloc had planned to sign a deal early this year for at least 100 million doses of Novavax's vaccine, with an option for another 100 million.

 

You have to wonder why the EU take so long to sign these deals. I wonder if some EU member states are regretting allowing the EU to take charge of vaccine procurement now. 

It's a real shame because it's only going to cause more friction. And we don't need that during a pandemic

[david555]

6 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You have to wonder why the EU take so long to sign these deals. I wonder if some EU member states are regretting allowing the EU to take charge of vaccine procurement now. 

It's a real shame because it's only going to cause more friction. And we don't need that during a pandemic

Read good ...it is Novavax who delay signing because of problems to get materials (that is why i underlined "Novavax " ) , ....

 

nice try anyway .... ????

Edited March 25, 2021 by david555

[david555]

After all ,Sputnik looks not so bad by this chart   ( ref. The lancet )  as ranked #3 above  AZ. #5 ????

 

To find on page of this link :

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1414004/Phillippe-Lamberts-AstraZeneca-vaccine-EU-latest-coronavirus-BBC-Radio-4-update-vn

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by david555

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Read good ...it is Novavax who delay signing because of problems to get materials (that is why i underlined "Novavax " ) , ....

 

nice try anyway .... ????

But the problems only affected the EU supply because the EU haven't signed a deal yet? The article says: 

'UK has already secured 60m doses' 

 

 

[candide]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

 (This sure go have an impacts on another matter running .... ???? )

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1414878/EU-vaccine-news-Novavax-delay-contract-european-union-US-UK-deal-covid-jab-doses

EU faces MORE vaccine chaos as Novavax deal delayed - UK has already secured 60m doses
THE EU's chaotic vaccine rollout effort has been dealt another crushing blow after it was revealed Novavax was delaying signing a contract to supply its COVID-19 vaccine to the the bloc

 

By CIARAN MCGRATH
PUBLISHED: 16:50, Thu, Mar 25, 2021 | UPDATED: 16:54, Thu, Mar 25, 2021

An EU official involved in the talks made the revelation after the U.S. biotech company warned it was struggling to source some raw materials.

UK trials have indicated Novavax's jab has an 89 percent effectiveness rate.

Prolonging the talks might further complicate the EU's vaccination plans as the bloc had planned to sign a deal early this year for at least 100 million doses of Novavax's vaccine, with an option for another 100 million.

 

It has no crucial consequence as deliveries are expected only during the second half of 2021, at a time there should be no acute vaccine penury. The key issue is to get vaccines now.

Edited March 25, 2021 by candide

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

Read good ...it is Novavax who delay signing because of problems to get materials (that is why i underlined "Novavax " ) , ....

 

nice try anyway .... ????

I see even your Mr Macron is now acknowledging the EU's mistakes. Let's hope the focus now moves away from blaming the UK / AZ and moves toward getting the EU's house in order. We'll all benefit from that. 

 

COVID-19: Emmanuel Macron says the EU failed to 'shoot for the stars' over vaccine rollouts

Mr Macron admitted mistakes in the EU's vaccination strategy as the bloc's leaders prepared to meet for a pandemic summit.

The French president noted the 27-member bloc had been "wrong" to act slowly and to "lack ambition" in pushing forward with plans for COVID inoculations.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-emmanuel-macron-says-the-eu-failed-to-shoot-for-the-stars-over-vaccine-rollouts-12256479

 

[Hi from France]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

After all ,Sputnik looks not so bad by this chart   ( ref. The lancet )  as ranked #3 above  AZ. #5 ????

 

To find on page of this link :

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1414004/Phillippe-Lamberts-AstraZeneca-vaccine-EU-latest-coronavirus-BBC-Radio-4-update-vn

 

Some of the 27 are buying the Russian Sputnik Hungary already and Germany maybe. 

 

I do not trust Russian data and they did not even apply for EMA approval, but there we are.. Poland is buying the Chinese vaccine it seems. 

[candide]

20 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

see even your Mr Macron is now acknowledging the EU's mistakes. Let's hope the focus now moves away from blaming the UK / AZ and moves toward getting the EU's house in order. We'll all benefit from that. 

In a situation of scarcity, it's a zero sum game. What one country gets is what the others won't get. There's no "we'll all benefit".  Had the EU better handled the AZ deal, I.e. with a EU first clause for all what is produced in the EU, the UK or other countries would have gotten less supply.

[CG1 Blue]

41 minutes ago, candide said:

In a situation of scarcity, it's a zero sum game. What one country gets is what the others won't get. There's no "we'll all benefit".  Had the EU better handled the AZ deal, I.e. with a EU first clause for all what is produced in the EU, the UK or other countries would have gotten less supply.

That's a fair point. But I think we would still all benefit from rational discussion between the key players rather than fighting talk

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, Hi from France said:

this is right (chart = daily deaths in FR) Public domain data

I hope so

 

 

data source : https://covidtracker.fr/covidtracker-france/

 

.

You should check here https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/ contains the information I quoted. Your link is in French, this is an English forum

 

Or for a nice clear chart go here https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/france

Edited March 25, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[Bkk Brian]

This seems to be the latest report I can find on the summit?

 

EU leaders backed “global value chains” rather than support Brussels in using new powers to block Covid jab exports to highly vaccinated countries,

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/25/eu-leaders-told-bloc-has-sent-21m-covid-vaccine-doses-to-the-uk

Edited March 25, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[KhaoYai]

5 hours ago, david555 said:

After all ,Sputnik looks not so bad by this chart   ( ref. The lancet )  as ranked #3 above  AZ. #5 ????

 

To find on page of this link :

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1414004/Phillippe-Lamberts-AstraZeneca-vaccine-EU-latest-coronavirus-BBC-Radio-4-update-vn

 

I would urge caution when looking at ANY charts on vaccine efficacy - there are many questions and quite a few ways of considering the results.  For example, the AZ vaccine on the chart you provided is showing as 70%.  70% on what comparison?  In terms of preventing sev vaere illness, hospitalisation and death the AZ product is quoted as being 100% effective.  Before someone claims I'm giving support to the AZ vaccine - that is not the intention, I only know that because its the vaccine I was given and I wanted to know. You should also pay attention to the asterisked notes at the bottom of the chart.

 

Others on the chart may also be 100% on the same comparison, they may be 50%.  Some may be more effective at stopping transmission.

 

Personally, given the general reputation of both Russia and China, I'd want to have fully read up on them before I agreed to have their products. I'd also want to see independent testing - neither country is known for its trustworthiness.

 

All of these vaccines are 'first generation' - you can be certain the manufacturers are working on MK2 versions as we speak.  The world's experts are learning more about Covid 19 every day and the manufacturers will also learn from real world use and data.

 

At the moment we can only work on the information we have and it seems very clear that the UK's use of Pfizer and AZ vaccines has paid dividends - I believe we are also either using the Moderna product now or will be shortly.

[david555]

19 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I would urge caution when looking at ANY charts on vaccine efficacy - there are many questions and quite a few ways of considering the results.  For example, the AZ vaccine on the chart you provided is showing as 70%.  70% on what comparison?  In terms of preventing sev vaere illness, hospitalisation and death the AZ product is quoted as being 100% effective.  Before someone claims I'm giving support to the AZ vaccine - that is not the intention, I only know that because its the vaccine I was given and I wanted to know. You should also pay attention to the asterisked notes at the bottom of the chart.

 

Others on the chart may also be 100% on the same comparison, they may be 50%.  Some may be more effective at stopping transmission.

 

Personally, given the general reputation of both Russia and China, I'd want to have fully read up on them before I agreed to have their products. I'd also want to see independent testing - neither country is known for its trustworthiness.

 

All of these vaccines are 'first generation' - you can be certain the manufacturers are working on MK2 versions as we speak.  The world's experts are learning more about Covid 19 every day and the manufacturers will also learn from real world use and data.

 

At the moment we can only work on the information we have and it seems very clear that the UK's use of Pfizer and AZ vaccines has paid dividends - I believe we are also either using the Moderna product now or will be shortly.

I noticed the asterixes ....

 

But did you noticed on the chart the source of chart ...."The Lancet " ...a  high profile medical authority ...?? ????

 

I noticed also the much higher protection  by AZ. .....but  after the second shot ..... so if availbe 2 shots , and being a young person i would have no objections to have A.Z.  

 

But by not being a young person i would follow the  medical advise and go for Pfizer ....but seems we have to be sattisfied with the one who would be availble .

☹️

Edited March 26, 2021 by david555

[david555]

 ( just now at  : 01:52, Fri, Mar 26, 2021  )

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1415053/emmanuel-macron-eu-vaccine-export-ban-astrazeneca-pfizer-uk-boris-johnson-ont

Macron backs EU vaccine ban on Britain but is overruled - 'End of naivety'
EMMANUEL Macron backed EU plans to impose a punitive Astrazeneca vaccine export ban on Britain.

By JOHN VARGA
PUBLISHED: 01:52, Fri, Mar 26, 2021 | UPDATED: 01:52, Fri, Mar 26, 2021

 

Boris Johnson chose to pursue a strategy of giving as many people their first vaccine dose as quickly as possible, in order to give them some protection against the killer virus. The policy has seen a dramatic drop in both infection rates and deaths among the population. However, the UK does not have a stockpile of vaccines and is dependent on the EU for further vaccine imports.

 

Brussels has recently adopted more stringent regulations governing vaccine exports. The proposed export ban was jointly refused by EU leaders wanting to avoid a vaccine war. President Macron backed the EU's plans, saying it was time to "block all exports". He told a press conference on Thursday after a virtual summit of EU leaders: "It's the end of naivety.

 

"I support export control mechanisms put in place by the European Commission. "I support the fact that we must block all exports for as long as some drug companies don't respect their commitments with Europeans”. According to the new EU regulations, officials will be able to impose export bans on countries that have either a better record than the EU in vaccinating its population, or those that restrict exports through law or in their contracts with suppliers. The UK has succeeded in vaccinating 46 people in every 100, compared to the EU average of 13.

[Bkk Brian]

8 hours ago, david555 said:

After all ,Sputnik looks not so bad by this chart   ( ref. The lancet )  as ranked #3 above  AZ. #5 ????

 

To find on page of this link :

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1414004/Phillippe-Lamberts-AstraZeneca-vaccine-EU-latest-coronavirus-BBC-Radio-4-update-vn

 

The largest rigorously controlled trial for AZ in the US is the one that is current.

 

AstraZeneca has updated the efficacy result of its coronavirus vaccine trial in the US, after health officials insisted they wanted to include the latest information.

 

The Anglo-Swedish firm has now adjusted the efficacy rate of its vaccine from 79% to 76%.

 

Further data from the US trial showed efficacy among the over 65s rose from 80% to 85%.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56521166

 

The Lancet study on AZ is far more complicated and saying its got a 70% efficacy is simplistic to say the least if you read the actual study, https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00528-6/fulltext

 

I agree with you on Sputnik though, the Lancet study on that is encouraging. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00191-4/fulltext

[david555]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

The largest rigorously controlled trial for AZ in the US is the one that is current.

 

AstraZeneca has updated the efficacy result of its coronavirus vaccine trial in the US, after health officials insisted they wanted to include the latest information.

 

The Anglo-Swedish firm has now adjusted the efficacy rate of its vaccine from 79% to 76%.

 

Further data from the US trial showed efficacy among the over 65s rose from 80% to 85%.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56521166

 

The Lancet study on AZ is far more complicated and saying its got a 70% efficacy is simplistic to say the least if you read the actual study, https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00528-6/fulltext

 

I agree with you on Sputnik though, the Lancet study on that is encouraging. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00191-4/fulltext

It is known and said before that AZ. reach only his highest possible protection after the second shot ..... , those vaccines are made for medical reasons ...., but unfortunately  now used for politic scoring race ......hence all the fuzz around them ????

[RayC]

13 hours ago, david555 said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1414768/EU-news-David-Sassoli-UK-vaccine-sanction-AstraZeneca-Covid19-jab-latest-vn

'We're not a punching bag!' 

President Sassoli insisted the European Union is not a "punching bag" ...

 

I imagine that Pascal Soriot might echo these words?!

[david555]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

I imagine that Pascal Soriot might echo these words?!

indeed both sides can claim that , as always in a confrontation ..... depends for who  " the fall out " afterwards ... ????

Edited March 26, 2021 by david555

[Hi from France]

20 hours ago, polpott said:

Sorry but you can't do anything. You will do what the Germans tell you to do. End of.

Do you think dropping provocative, un-sourced one liners is a proper way to debate?

 

Could it be useful to make an effort there?  Read you posts over, improve them before clicking "publish": this shall improve this forum 

[CG1 Blue]

6 hours ago, david555 said:

President Macron backed the EU's plans, saying it was time to "block all exports". He told a press conference on Thursday

"I support export control mechanisms put in place by the European Commission. "I support the fact that we must block all exports for as long as some drug companies don't respect their commitments with Europeans”.

As far as I'm aware the UK is still part of Europe, so I'm pleased to hear Macron has our back ????