Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[david143]

29 minutes ago, Marcati said:

Good news today.  I was informed by the SB that my application has been completely processed by them and sent to the MOI for next steps.  There were a total of 51 names submitted, which includes a lot of Indian, Chinese and Taiwanese families in groups.

 

Now let's see how long before we get called by the small committee for the next interview.....

Congrag Mate.
i saw your Word Good news today , i thought RG is out ????

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I think it's normal for us to want to pull our 'Pu Yai' out of the woodwork to gain an edge in/speed up our Citizenship process. However, I think it is often detrimental in the smoothness of the process nowadays for the following reason.

All Thai government officials, including police, have their own jurisdiction, which many think of as their own little kingdom. After being brought up in the Thai hierarchical social culture, they don't like it, resent it, or feel threatened when the leader of another kingdom comes to 'ask' for a favour, or show their importance in being a rung or two higher on the ladder than the officer. The whole กบุญคุณ  philosophy is a part of Thai society, but isn't appreciated in the Citizenship process, IMHO. Unless the ผู้ใหญ่ is extremely high, govt. minister and above, it could delay the process considerably. 

I thought of asking a person in a very high social position to come as a witness in the early stages(as I thought it might help) but luckily never. When my 'normal' friends went, they had a great rapport with my officer and even exchanged phone numbers/business cards. Then, I thought how different it would have been taking the big guns there.  

It reminds me of when I worked at a university in Khon Kaen. I had to go to immigration in Nong Kai in those days and when I went, my boss said I go take a ride in their minivan(going to a funeral). So when it dropped me off at the immigration, all the people decide to come in with my, including the number one at the uni. They were all dressed in the white uniforms and the immigration officer was fuming. He ordered them to go away and spoke to me alone, saying to come back the next month. The next time, he smiled and said, "come back next month". this went on for nearly a year, which was very inconvenient for me, until I was taught my lesson. There was absolutely no real reason for only getting 1 months extensions to my visa.

 

The simple rules cited through the thread are don't bother your pooyai connections to be witnesses or write testimonials.  Pooyai as witnesses don't make any difference and the pooyai could be caused some inconvenience.  Testimonial letters are accepted by Immigration for PR application (or were in my time) but they are not in the check list for citizenship and SB doesn't want them or didn't when I applied, as I asked them.  I think they could complicate things because that might be something else that needs to be verified or might raise suspicions that the applicant is paying bribes.  I remember being told by one of the officers that a farang came saying he was a friend of Anutin, who was serving his political ban at the time but his father was interior minister.  He thought his connection would get him in the door without complete qualifications but it didn't, probably because too many people review the files and can see instantly if someone, for example, has only one year of PR instead of five or has not been married to a Thai long enough. 

 

Where your high level connections can be useful is working the phones with the Interior Ministry behind the scenes to speed things up.  There is no doubt that this has been done successfully by some applicants. But the connections have to be very senior to make a difference, preferably with a way in to the interior minister himself.  

 

[sinthavee]

Hi Bros,

I have found this forum  very informative. Thanks to all the contributors. I have a query.

I understand that the September 2020 final interview passed applicant list has been signed a few days ago. How long it could take for getting a call for the Oath? Also, will there be any letter to the approved applicants from MOI/SB, calling for Oath?

 Thanks.

[Arkady]

44 minutes ago, sinthavee said:

Hi Bros,

I have found this forum  very informative. Thanks to all the contributors. I have a query.

I understand that the September 2020 final interview passed applicant list has been signed a few days ago. How long it could take for getting a call for the Oath? Also, will there be any letter to the approved applicants from MOI/SB, calling for Oath?

 Thanks.

 

You have to be passed by the big committee (no interview) and then the minister has to sign and HMK has to countersign.  My timeline was like this.

 

6 months after MoI interview. Received a letter from SB saying the minister had approved.

 

 9 months after interview.  HMK countersigned application.

 

14 months after interview. Received a letter from SB advising that HMK had signed.  Was asked to come for oath about a week later.

 

21 months after interview. Announced in RG.

 

23 months after interview. Received naturalisation certificate and went to get my ID card.

 

I don't know if they are still sending the same letters today.  Details like that seem to change frequently.  I think I was fairly lucky in that the minister signed 6 months after my interview and HMK signed 3 months after that. But it seemed odd that it took 5 months for me to be informed that HMK had signed.  Since the 2014 coup many people have got through the process in 3 years.  Before that it generally took longer.  It took me 5 years (waited 3 years for my interview) and 5 to 8 years was considered normal at that time.  

 

 

[sinthavee]

Thank you for sharing your experiences, Arkady bro.

 I had my meeting with the big committee at Lam Lukka office on 21st Sep, 2020(2 years & 3 months after applying). After all the requisite processing & signatures by the ministries /ministers, the list has been approved & signed by HMK (approximately 9 months from big committee mtg) a few days ago.

 

My query is how long it could take for getting the call for oath  & if there will be any letter from SB/MOI calling for the oath. Looking forward to hear & learn from recent experiences.
 

Thanks.

 

 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, sinthavee said:

Thank you for sharing your experiences, Arkady bro.

 I had my meeting with the big committee at Lam Lukka office on 21st Sep, 2020(2 years & 3 months after applying). After all the requisite processing & signatures by the ministries /ministers, the list has been approved & signed by HMK (approximately 9 months from big committee mtg) a few days ago.

 

My query is how long it could take for getting the call for oath  & if there will be any letter from SB/MOI calling for the oath. Looking forward to hear & learn from recent experiences.
 

Thanks.

 

I can't say how long it will take them to get you over for the oath but I guess it won't be too long, since they have informed you that HMK has already signed.  I think the letter I received advising that HMK had signed also told me to report to SB for the oath.  What I recall was that a copy was sent to me by my case officer on LINE and she made an appointment for the oath at the same time.  The only formal letter I received at my home was the one inviting me to the MoI for interview and that arrived two days after the interview but luckily I had received a photograph on LINE a couple of days before the interview.  I also got a colour photocopy of the letter signed by HMK several months after I got my ID card by special arrangement with my case officer who said they were not really supposed to give them out. I understand the letters are now done in batches but mine was an individual one.  Something to treasure.

[david143]

My Timeline
March 2018 : Documents Submitted @ SB Bangkok
April 2018 : NIA interview @ NIA Headquarter Bangkok ( 5 Min Interview)
August 2018 :  Received a Line Message from SB officer with Letter File number/Matra Forward to MOI
December 2019 :  Got call from MOI office that my last interview is on 17 December 2019.
Feb 2020 : Received a Call from MOI that File has been Approved and Forward to Minister Office for Signature + It will forward to HMK office.
August 13 - 2020 Received a Call from SB officer Please come for Oath.
26 August - 2020 - Completed Oath -
Since oath was completed, until now Waiting for RG.
Since i am in the Process i never received any kind of Letter , everything is on Call /Message.
Total Time Lapse: Start Process until now : 3 years, 3 months.
Time between File sent to MOI till Last interview: 1 year, 4 months
Time between Last interview till reach to Oath : 8 months, 9 days.
Now We are Waiting for RG until now is 10 Months.

Goodluck Mate
 

[Neeranam]

13 hours ago, sinthavee said:

Thank you for sharing your experiences, Arkady bro.

 I had my meeting with the big committee at Lam Lukka office on 21st Sep, 2020(2 years & 3 months after applying). After all the requisite processing & signatures by the ministries /ministers, the list has been approved & signed by HMK (approximately 9 months from big committee mtg) a few days ago.

 

My query is how long it could take for getting the call for oath  & if there will be any letter from SB/MOI calling for the oath. Looking forward to hear & learn from recent experiences.
 

Thanks.

 

 

I applied Dec 17.

NIA interview. Jan 18

Told me by phone that docs sent to MoI March 18

Never received  any letters during the process. 

MoI interview Sep 19

Oath July 20

RG Nov 20

ID card Dec 20

 

Total time 3 years. 

 

If HMK has signed already, you should get the call the oath in a few days if it is the same as me. 

 

[Neeranam]

11 hours ago, Arkady said:

I think the letter I received advising that HMK had signed also told me to report to SB for the oath. 

I got a call from SB saying HMK had signed and to go for the Oath the next day. The week before, I had called but he hadn't signed. 

[sinthavee]

Many thanks to brothers Arkady,David143 & Neeranam for the useful data & inputs based their experience.
Eagerly awaiting call for oath. Also, wishing early publication in RG for both the awaiting batches. 
 

[david143]

3 minutes ago, sinthavee said:

Many thanks to brothers Arkady,David143 & Neeranam for the useful data & inputs based their experience.
Eagerly awaiting call for oath. Also, wishing early publication in RG for both the awaiting batches. 
 

goodluck mate

 

[yankee99]

The RG was updated today for women 

[david143]

6 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

The RG was updated today for women 

i dont see mate

RG Site is Empty for 25 June

[david143]

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2564/D/045/T_0004.PDF

 

23 June 2021

Again they skip Male

[yankee99]

1 minute ago, david143 said:

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2564/D/045/T_0004.PDF

 

23 June 2021

Again they skip Male

Ok you found it?

[david143]

Just now, yankee99 said:

Ok you found it?

Yeah brother
What they thinking for keeping Male RG will stop spreading Covid , baa oye

[david143]

Feb 2021 Female 54 Applicant
Jun 2021 Female 57 Applicant
Total 111 Applicant there is no covid,
They follow the Proper Schedule of Publishing.
now its time to Daa MOI on monday - baa bao

[qualtrough]

22 hours ago, sinthavee said:

Hi Bros,

I have found this forum  very informative. Thanks to all the contributors. I have a query.

I understand that the September 2020 final interview passed applicant list has been signed a few days ago. How long it could take for getting a call for the Oath? Also, will there be any letter to the approved applicants from MOI/SB, calling for Oath?

 Thanks.

It looks like we were in the same batch. I was informed the other day by my SB case officer that my application was in the stage awaiting the HM's signature.  I hope you don't mind my asking, but how did you learn that the Sept 2020 interviewees that passed have been signed off?

[GarryP]

19 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

I can't say how long it will take them to get you over for the oath but I guess it won't be too long, since they have informed you that HMK has already signed.  I think the letter I received advising that HMK had signed also told me to report to SB for the oath.  What I recall was that a copy was sent to me by my case officer on LINE and she made an appointment for the oath at the same time.  The only formal letter I received at my home was the one inviting me to the MoI for interview and that arrived two days after the interview but luckily I had received a photograph on LINE a couple of days before the interview.  I also got a colour photocopy of the letter signed by HMK several months after I got my ID card by special arrangement with my case officer who said they were not really supposed to give them out. I understand the letters are now done in batches but mine was an individual one.  Something to treasure.

I too learned of my second interview with the MOI at the last minute.  I was informed by an officer at SB if I recall correctly but it certainly wasn't the hard copy by post, which I never received.

 

I never got a letter signed by the king and was told they were no longer issued. 

[Neeranam]

On 6/24/2021 at 2:26 PM, david143 said:

Congrag Mate.
i saw your Word Good news today , i thought RG is out ????

I saw the RG yesterday and thought of you, but it was only women! 

[jayboy]

On 6/22/2021 at 11:08 PM, Arkady said:

But with Immigration thinking of new banana skins to throw in the path of PR applicants every year, the process has morphed into something monstrous and fees went up astronomically several years ago.

 

Do you have any views why this might be so? I had understood that willingness to keep the PR train running ebbed and flowed for vagaries at the ministerial level(for example it became easier after the last coup). But I had always assumed officials at Immigration were more or less neutral, implementing the processing of PR in line with policy from above.If I understand you correctly Immigration may be actively be looking for reasons to fail applicants.Is this true and if so what do you think their motivation might be?

 

Sorry I know this is a digression but, as a PR, I am often asked about this kind of stuff.

[Arkady]

16 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

Do you have any views why this might be so? I had understood that willingness to keep the PR train running ebbed and flowed for vagaries at the ministerial level(for example it became easier after the last coup). But I had always assumed officials at Immigration were more or less neutral, implementing the processing of PR in line with policy from above.If I understand you correctly Immigration may be actively be looking for reasons to fail applicants.Is this true and if so what do you think their motivation might be?

 

Sorry I know this is a digression but, as a PR, I am often asked about this kind of stuff.

 

Both PR and citizenship are under the MoI and there must be senior officials there who have responsibility for both processes.   As the PR process has been made progressively harder, some but not all of these new features have been adopted for citizenship.  Consequently, if we compare both processes over around 20 years, and I applied for PR in 1997, it is clear that PR has become much, much harder and much more expensive), while citizenship has become somewhat harder.  Since the MoI senior management are common to both, it is only logical to assume that most of the drive to make PR harder, some of which has washed over into citizenship, has come from within Immigration itself. The one exception may the embassy affidavit letter requirement in 2009 which was almost certainly a direct result of the MoI's displeasure at having to implement the 2008 Nationality Act amendment allowing males with Thai wives to apply without PR.  (There is evidence they were not happy with this.)

 

Familiarity breeds contempt and Immigration deals with foreigners all the time, whereas SB generally has little contact with foreigners.  Obviously a small minority of the foreigners that Immigration has contact with are trying to cheat the system and some are out and out criminals. There must be lots of war stories within Immigration about them and they are more likely to regard all foreigners with great suspicion and feel they have a national security role to protect the nation from them.  The foreigners that SB comes into contact with in the citizenship department are, with some exceptions, generally well assimilated into Thai culture and amongst the best of the crop, giving SB little reason from their own experience to be suspicious of them.  Just my views on the matter.   

[jayboy]

22 minutes ago, Arkady said:

The foreigners that SB comes into contact with in the citizenship department are, with some exceptions, generally well assimilated into Thai culture and amongst the best of the crop, giving SB little reason from their own experience to be suspicious of them.  Just my views on the matter.   

 

Interesting and carries much weight given your long experience.Having said that, the PRs I know (about 10) are all well educated upper middle class professionals who are fully conversant with Thai culture. I also know a few citizens who are very much the same type - RBSC members etc.Indeed it would be impossible to tell them apart although the citizens are on the whole better Thai speakers.However I appreciate that's a small and probably unrepresentative sample of the two groups and I don't have your knowledge of the bigger picture.

[kst]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I saw the RG yesterday and thought of you, but it was only women! 

Congrats to all who were announced in RG yesterday. 

 

Now, even though these are un-usual times, whats the usual time lapse between RG announcements for men & women? 

[heiri007]

Women marrying Thai husband do not require signing by HMK, only interior minister. Let's hope everyone waiting is on track ????

[Mhee2021]

On 6/10/2021 at 6:35 PM, Arkady said:

 

Unless things have changed, Thais cannot just remit savings from their salaries overseas.  They need to send for specific documented investments, supporting kids or other relatives overseas.  But anyone can send an a small undocumented remittance overseas.  The limit for that used to be US$2,000.

Outward transfers are under extended control. This includes foreigners. For every outward transfer documentation and reason code is required (including expats).

[onthemoon]

18 hours ago, Mhee2021 said:

Outward transfers are under extended control. This includes foreigners. For every outward transfer documentation and reason code is required (including expats).

As an expat, my reason was "salary repatriation" until I got PR, and now it is "savings" when remitting to my own overseas accounts. There are limitations as to how much I am allowed to transfer per day and per year, but I have never come close to those amounts.

 

Can Thai citizens remit "savings" to their own overseas accounts? If not, Thais would be at a disadvantage compared to foreigners, and that would be highly surprising.

[david143]

@Neeranam Brother
Your MOI interview was in September 2019 ?

October 2019 there was no Meeting.
Meeting was on November 12th 2019 And Then ( Anyone in Thread was in this Meeting ? )
Meeting was on December 17th 2019 (Brother Yankee and Myself was in this Meeting )

so can we assume that we will be in next RG ?
What is your suggestion brother.


 

[jaiyenyen]

Documents being submitted to SB today.

I feel so far behind everyone else, but I'm very happy to get the ball rolling.

[david143]

Just now, jaiyenyen said:

Documents being submitted to SB today.

I feel so far behind everyone else, but I'm very happy to get the ball rolling.

Good Luck Mate