Buying a Bar in Pattaya

[Damrongsak]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:01 AM, Natai Beach said:

...Then get yourself a mink coat, some gold chains, a Cadillac and a stick. 

Good to go.

Like so?

 

 

[blackcab]

On 5/19/2021 at 8:40 AM, Danderman123 said:

I have no interest in operating a bar, or buying a majority share.

 

my interest is only in buying a small stake in an existing bar. 

 

And herein lays the problem. When you talk about buying a stake in a bar, you need to carefully define what you are buying.

 

For the prices you have mentioned, you will be buying the business and not the land or building.

 

If you are buying the business, you need to establish whether you are joining a partnership or whether you are buying shares in a limited company.

 

If you are buying into a partnership and you only want to own a small portion of the business then either you will have several other partners with equally small investments or you will need a very carefully constructed partnership agreement that allows for unequal cash contributions and an unequal distribution of profits. Either way, this can be very problematic.

 

If you are buying shares in a limited company then you have to be very aware of the percentage of the shares you are buying and the voting rights that are associated with that percentage.

 

For example, if you own less than twenty per cent of the shares, you may not on your own require the company to convene a shareholder meeting and you may not influence the passing of any special resolution or ordinary resolution.

 

This means that you have no control over the passing of a special resolution that increases the capital of the company by the issuance of new shares, otherwise known as share dilution.

 

In this manner, if you purchased twenty percent of a company's shares, your percentage could be legally diluted to a trivial amount with your knowledge and without your consent. Your dividends would also be diluted to the same trivial percentage and your investment would effectively vanish.

 

To avoid this scenario you need to own an amount of shares greater than twenty five percent. At this level of ownership you can guarantee against share dilution because a special resolution cannot be passed unless seventy five per cent or more of the shareholders agree, and it requires a special resolution to increase the capital of a limited company.

 

The problem, of course, is that in most cases the maximum ownership of shares of a Thai limited company by non-Thai citizens is forty nine percent. By owning more than twenty five percent you would own the majority of the non-Thai shares. There is nothing wrong with that if the remaining shares are owned in combination by, for example, a Thai wife and her non-Thai husband as they would jointly own, for example, seventy four percent of the shares and they would still be able to make management decisions.

 

If, however, there was a silent Thai partner with fifty one percent of the shares, and you with twenty six percent of the shares, the business would end up being run by the third shareholder who owned the smallest percentage at twenty three percent.

 

Or you could appoint a manager if the majority shareholder agreed.

 

Whichever way you go, you need to be very well informed of what you are getting into.

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, blackcab said:

For the prices you have mentioned, you will be buying the business and not the land or building.

 

Some don't care about any of these, they just want to buy "the dream."  ????

[khunPer]

On 4/17/2021 at 3:25 AM, Danderman123 said:

I am looking at purchasing a partial interest in a small bar.

If you wish to invest in a Thai business, don't be a minority partner, be the majority, at least in votes, otherwise you might have a short time nice feeling as being a part owner, shortly thereafter you write off you invest ment as a loss.

 

Always remember that making a small fortune on business in Thailand is indeed possible, if you start with a big fortune...????

 

If you wish a small part of a Thai business, then buy stocks in a public listed company, i.e.e on SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand). You have wide selection to choose from, you can easily check the business' history and potential future gains, you buy you share of the business with a mouse-click, you can follow your investment on almost daily basis, and you step out again with a mouse-click, and a few days later you have your money in cash in your bank – and making a double up on your investment within a year is possible if you choose wisely.

 

 

[elgenon]

On 4/16/2021 at 8:50 PM, TunnelRat69 said:

     Be still my heart, have I been transported back to the early seventies where 85% of the bars in Pattaya were owned by Americans??   It's all a crapshoot in Pats, your biggest expense to remain open is Tea money, to everyone.   You need a theme, something no one else is doing, something the long term residents will come to depend on, a place where "they know they can go where everybody knows their name".  I think Pattaya has to lead the world on bars that have changed hands more times over the last 30 years.   The ones that seem to remain open have an appeal to the long term folks.  I have no data for you, hope someone that has not (or has)lost his/her bar can explain why they had to close so you don't make the same mistake.  Me, I sold my place for 40 times what I paid for it, it was on the ppty that the Nang Nual Seafood sits today..............that was 1981, took the money and ran, never opened another one. 

Themes, schmemes. It's the girls and if the customers are comfortable and having fun. I can think of bars that invested money in projecting a theme are are gone. Replaced by themeless one who lasted longer.

 

 

[Iron Tongue]

On 4/16/2021 at 6:25 PM, Danderman123 said:

What is the market value of a shophouse bar that averages about 15,000 baht a day in revenues? I am looking for order of magnitude estimates, or accounts of past ownership.

You calculate value based on the net, not on revenue.

 

15k baht a day revenue means nothing if daily expenses are -20k baht.  Is reported revenue from high season back in 2019?  2020 & 2021 will probably be losses, otherwise why would they need yojr money?  Have you seen the (real) book?  Do you understand accounting principles, do you understand Thai accounting principles?  What kind of ownership is this bar set up as and can it add any new partners since the original owners/investors will have to accept a dilution of their share %.

Sounds like the actual owner wants to recapitalize by using your money.  What exactly do you want to get out of this?  

[Oztruckie]

Definitely a good time to buy,a mate sold his bar,guesthouse in soi chaiyapoon {soi pothole} just before this current lockdown,300k bht,no key money,rent 12k a month,single front with 4 rooms upstairs to rent,one example of whats out there.

[Randell jones]

7 minutes ago, Oztruckie said:

Definitely a good time to buy,a mate sold his bar,guesthouse in soi chaiyapoon {soi pothole} just before this current lockdown,300k bht,no key money,rent 12k a month,single front with 4 rooms upstairs to rent,one example of whats out there.

You would only have to drink 150 bottles of beer in the bar a month yourself, and you've paid your own rent, bargain. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/17/2021 at 4:01 PM, Surelynot said:

So much depends on the mama-san......I know a bar on Soi 7, Pattaya, it is set back, and to look at it (if you could even see it) you would think....not a snowballs chance of making money, probably doesn't now, but in 'normal' times it made a fortune.......solely down to her efforts.

Not only the mama san, but also the cashier ( unless one and the same ). I never returned to one  Naklua bar after being badly treated by the cashier.

At one Best Friend bar I asked the mama san for a refund of the bar fine after finding my long stay temporary GF coming out of the Marine Disco with some guy I'd never seen before. She refused and lost more in future business than she'd have given me in a refund. I was a regular at that bar for some time, not some passing guy.

[Surelynot]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Not only the mama san, but also the cashier ( unless one and the same ). I never returned to one  Naklua bar after being badly treated by the cashier.

At one Best Friend bar I asked the mama san for a refund of the bar fine after finding my long stay temporary GF coming out of the Marine Disco with some guy I'd never seen before. She refused and lost more in future business than she'd have given me in a refund. I was a regular at that bar for some time, not some passing guy.

Mmmm....the staff are not so good at the "long term" view for sure......hopefully where the mama-san is also the owner they are also wiser!!

[kingofthemountain]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

At one Best Friend bar I asked the mama san for a refund of the bar fine after finding my long stay temporary GF coming out of the Marine Disco with some guy I'd never seen before. She refused and lost more in future business than she'd have given me in a refund. I was a regular at that bar for some time, not some passing guy.

It seems the opinion you had of yourself was different of 

the one your ''gf'' and the mamasan had of you

for both you was just ''some passing guy''

[thaibeachlovers]

25 minutes ago, Iron Tongue said:

You calculate value based on the net, not on revenue.

 

15k baht a day revenue means nothing if daily expenses are -20k baht.  Is reported revenue from high season back in 2019?  2020 & 2021 will probably be losses, otherwise why would they need yojr money?  Have you seen the (real) book?  Do you understand accounting principles, do you understand Thai accounting principles?  What kind of ownership is this bar set up as and can it add any new partners since the original owners/investors will have to accept a dilution of their share %.

Sounds like the actual owner wants to recapitalize by using your money.  What exactly do you want to get out of this?  

What exactly do you want to get out of this?  

 

Indeed. I once knew a Brit that bought a share of a well known ( way back ) Soi Yamato bar/ restaurant/ guest house that thought he'd gone to paradise because he was part owner of a "brothel". The last time I saw him he was getting dragged out of the bar and beaten up in the street by his less alcoholic partner.

Such are the trials of bar ownership in Pattaya.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, kingofthemountain said:

It seems the opinion you had of yourself was different of 

the one your ''gf'' and the mamasan had of you

for both you was just ''some passing guy''

555555555555555555

like you would know.

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

one your ''gf'' and the mamasan had of you

for both you was just ''some passing guy''

Aren't we all...............????

[Randell jones]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

555555555555555555

like you would know.

I got told by a mamasan of a bar I drank in regularly, if you've got no money in pattaya your no better than a dog in the street, that sobered me up quick. 

[kingofthemountain]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

555555555555555555

like you would know.

we all have had some up and down in Pattaya

at a moment you feel like you are the best man in the world

and few minutes later, you are near to nothing, just because

someone paid more than you did

after a while here, you get used to it, and it's become better

[kingofthemountain]

2 minutes ago, Randell jones said:

I got told by a mamasan of a bar I drank in regularly, if you've got no money in pattaya your no better than a dog in the street, that sobered me up quick. 

She was telling you the sad truth of the city

 

''no money, no honey''

it's not just few words on a t-shirt

[kingofthemountain]

6 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Aren't we all...............????

Of course we are

we are here on holidays and we want to have fun

they are working and they are here for the money, our money

[Randell jones]

1 minute ago, kingofthemountain said:

She was telling you the sad truth of the city

 

''no money, no honey''

it's not just few words on a t-shirt

You don't mind hearing those words but not off your wife. ????

[Surelynot]

Just now, kingofthemountain said:

Of course we are

we are here on holidays and we want have a good time

they are working and here for the money, our money

....but...but.....they are so good at the girlfriend experience......I first came here in 1993.......and still fall for it every single time I walk into a bar.

[kingofthemountain]

4 minutes ago, Randell jones said:

You don't mind hearing those words but not off your wife. ????

Fortunately i don't have anymore a wife nor a gf

but reading a lot of topics on this forum it seems most of the guys with a 

Thai wife\gf give to them a monthly allowance, it's part of the famous ''take care''

so....

[kingofthemountain]

6 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

....but...but.....they are so good at the girlfriend experience......I first came here in 1993.......and still fall for it every single time I walk into a bar.

i totally agree

it's their main power and force

they are very good at it, even after years

you can never know it they are the best comedians in the world

or if they are sincere, .......oh s...t i fall again for it !!! 5555

[NCC1701A]

i wanted to own a bar until i found out that using a riding crop to discourage tardiness would be frowned upon.

[Randell jones]

3 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

i wanted to own a bar until i found out that using a riding crop to discourage tardiness would be fronded upon.

I'd pay you for that. 

[VocalNeal]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:03 PM, Surelynot said:

OMG....YES!!!! Gael....if that is how you spell her name.

 

Or Gaew as in "glass"

[AlfHuy]

21 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

i totally agree

it's their main power and force

they are very good at it, even after years

you can never know it they are the best comedians in the world

or if they are sincere, .......oh s...t i fall again for it !!! 5555

 

[AlfHuy]

My mate is going back to Honolulu.

 

He has some barstools for sale.

If interested, PM me.

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 4/17/2021 at 8:25 AM, Danderman123 said:

What I am looking for is data:

 

I hear there's a buy one  get one free bogof

[rott]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What exactly do you want to get out of this?  

 

Indeed. I once knew a Brit that bought a share of a well known ( way back ) Soi Yamato bar/ restaurant/ guest house that thought he'd gone to paradise because he was part owner of a "brothel". The last time I saw him he was getting dragged out of the bar and beaten up in the street by his less alcoholic partner.

Such are the trials of bar ownership in Pattaya.

If it's way back, can't you name the place.? Not many bar owners or customers left from the olden days. 

On the subject of Soi Yamato a few places have changed hands and have the new names outside. 

[Randell jones]

1 hour ago, AlfHuy said:

My mate is going back to Honolulu.

 

He has some barstools for sale.

If interested, PM me.

 

1 hour ago, AlfHuy said:

 

Must be a plummer thing but I remember a plummer friend telling me when he had finished with his wife, I said what did you say, he said, it's over flo.