Ghosts and Dance in Isaan? Twice a year? Any logical explanation?

[alexlm]

Hello

 

My Wife just told me something weird. And before she told me, she said she should not tell me or I will laugh or "think she is crazy", she said...

 

She said that when she was young, in her Isaan small village:

 

Twice a year, there would be a day off for everyone.

 

They would dance all day and look like people "on drugs".

 

She explained something about ghosts taking control of the body of people for one day.

 

My Wife doesn't have a ghost "over her head". And only those with one would experience this. An elderly of the Family or village would know or decide who has whom ghost, and wether you have one or not.

 

She said it scared her.

 

As an example, she told me a young girl (less than 10 years old), would change completely the way she talks and acts during that day.

And all the people would dance all day in circles or something like that.

 

I'm just looking for a rational explanation about what she told me.

 

Or a Thai wikipedia article or in English would be better about this cultural thing. I don't even know the name of it. She doesn't remember too.

 

Thanks

 

Alex

[onebir]

Quote

I'm just looking for a rational explanation about what she told me.

Rational explanation = it's superstition, but if I had a chance I think I'd go have a look before assuming that.

 

I guess the word for this could be animism/shamanism/spiritualism/possession by spirits.

[alexlm]

23 minutes ago, onebir said:

Rational explanation = it's superstition, but if I had a chance I think I'd go have a look before assuming that.

 

I guess the word for this could be animism/shamanism/spiritualism/possession by spirits.

Thank you.

I told my Wife she was scared because she was young and may not remember it well to make it logical.

The fact that a young person would "change completely" for one day. Personality, voice, body language... make me pause though...

I asked her if, before the day began, they drank anything, but she said "no". Just in case they would drink something with hallucinogenic properties or something...

Now we are in France and out of the culture since 2018 so I can't see it for myself for now.

But it made me very curious...

I'm very open-minded in general.

But it just seems weird to me...

[alexlm]

Just asked my Wife the name of it.

She is not sure but she said:

รำอ้อ

[onebir]

32 minutes ago, alexlm said:

The fact that a young person would "change completely" for one day. Personality, voice, body language... make me pause though...

I asked her if, before the day began, they drank anything, but she said "no". Just in case they would drink something with hallucinogenic properties or something...

Exactly, but this "kind of thing" (with or without hallucinogens) isn't so rare in Asia/Africa/S America. Perhaps you'll get a chance for a first-hand look sometime ????

[alexlm]

3 hours ago, onebir said:

Exactly, but this "kind of thing" (with or without hallucinogens) isn't so rare in Asia/Africa/S America. Perhaps you'll get a chance for a first-hand look sometime ????

 

Is there a rational explanation? Instead of the "ghost taking over the body" one?

[faraday]

Anymore detail available, such as village name, date, & her age?

 

Was it done in a temple, or place of dwelling?

 

 

 

 

[alexlm]

9 minutes ago, faraday said:

Anymore detail available, such as village name, date, & her age?

 

Was it done in a temple, or place of dwelling?

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your answer.

She is 24.

It is in Sisaket province.

It's twice a year but she doesn't remember when.

If you haven't seen my last answer, she said "it is potentially called รำอ้อ" she is not sure I think.

It happened while she was still a minor. Because I'm with her since she was 18...

She said she was afraid/scared seing them like that dancing all day "in a weird way".

Edited April 17, 2021 by alexlm

[Kenny202]

A) They probably were on some sort of drug (mushrooms)

 

B) my first gf was like this normally for 1-3 days normally when she would lose her sh$#&t for no apparent reason

 

 

 

 

[Baanatie]

https://www.m-culture.go.th/sisaket/ewt_news.php?nid=924&filename=index   ?

Edited April 18, 2021 by Baanatie

[Gumballl]

Ha! In western cultures we are brought up to believe that a woman, named Mary, was magically inseminated by God himself.

 

Thais are very superstitious; westerners not so much... except for the aforementioned anomaly.

 

P.S. I wonder who will add to this thread... in particular, who will add the 13th comment.

[onebir]

4 hours ago, Baanatie said:

https://www.m-culture.go.th/sisaket/ewt_news.php?nid=924&filename=index   ?

Google translated:

Quote

Background (background / beliefs)
         Background of Phaya Tan or Phee Fa or Phee Tan Isan people believe that they are an angel rather than a ghost. The phantom is a higher level ghost than other spirits. The elves are believed to be a term including angels. And the largest elves are "Tan Luang" which is believed to be Indra The phantom or phantom elves each area has a different calling. And is believed to be able to Extinguish the threat or destroy all obstacles And able to help humans in need The human illness is due to the violation of ghosts. Infringement against the ancestors The treatment requires the invitation of a phantom to lurk in the body of a medium called "Pha Fa Nang Thian" in the northeast of the people. Come to Phraya Tan to make it rain according to the season. In order to have water for agriculture As well as preserving and continuing the good local traditions that have been passed down since ancient times To remain for generations to come It also creates morale for people in the community who work in farmers. In a better way And to preserve and carry on the good culture and traditions of the local area
 
Identity (outstanding)
          The Ritual of the Kui People, La-E District, La-E District, Nam Kleaeng District, Sisaket Province, on February 15, from 7.00-08.00 hrs. It is believed that it is a request for forgiveness from Phaya Tan. And may Phaya Tan help protect and protect the people of the people in a well-being Without disease
 
The importance and social and psychological values inherent in the way of life of that community
         Performing the ritual of the Elan Dance in the Thanon Dance tradition. It is a request for forgiveness from Phraya Tan for the seasonal rain. In order to have water for agriculture As well as preserving and continuing the good local traditions that have been passed down since ancient times To remain for generations to come It also creates morale for people in the community who work in farmers. In a better way And to preserve and carry on the good culture and traditions of the local area Held in succession at the time, but in the grandparents period to continue for generations to come For the rituals of the rituals of the community in La-o sub-district, Nam Kleaeng district, Si Sa Ket province, it is believed that it is a request for forgiveness of Phaya Tan. Helping to protect groups of people in the community Be happy and prosperous. Do not have any disease. Encroach upon If people in the community get sick and get sick Without knowing why Will perform a dance ceremony to drive away that evil Similar to the traditional style of the blue dance (ghoul ghoul) in the north itself The ritual begins at 19.00-08.00. The languages used include Khmer (Khmer-Cambodian), Lao-Isan, and the common language mixed according to the occasion and rhythm.

 

[onebir]

9 hours ago, alexlm said:

 

Is there a rational explanation? Instead of the "ghost taking over the body" one?

For something similar (?) in Christianity:

Quote

Neuroimaging of brain activity during glossolalia does not show activity in the language areas of the brain.[66][67] In other words, it may be characterized by a specific brain activity[68][69] and it can be a learned behaviour.[70][68]

 

A 1973 experimental study highlighted the existence of two basic types of glossolalia: a static form which tends to a somewhat coaction to repetitiveness and a more dynamic one which tends to free association of the of speech-like elements.[71][68]

 

A study done by the American Journal of Human Biology found that speaking in tongues was associated with both a reduction in circulatory cortisol, and enhancements in alpha-amylase enzyme activity – two common biomarkers of stress reduction that can be measured in saliva.[72] Several sociological studies report various social benefits to engaging in Pentecostal glossolalia,[73][74] such as an increase in self-confidence.[74]

 

As of April 2021, further studies are needed to corroborate the 1980s view of glossolaly with more sensitive measures of outcome, by using the more recent techniques of neuroimaging.[68]

A lot of observations, but no real explanation.

[IsaanAussie]

I live in Sisaket and there are regular animistic rites held in our village. All night faith healing, thanks for harvest, and prayers for success for new crops to name a few. 

The basic belief is all living things have a "spirit" and by communicating with those entities can help us. 

Next time you come over here, drop in and observe. 

[billd766]

8 hours ago, Gumballl said:

Ha! In western cultures we are brought up to believe that a woman, named Mary, was magically inseminated by God himself.

 

Thais are very superstitious; westerners not so much... except for the aforementioned anomaly.

 

P.S. I wonder who will add to this thread... in particular, who will add the 13th comment.

Devout Christians also believe in ghosts too. They believe that their God is both father, son and Holy Ghost.

 

They eat wafers believing them to be the body of their Christ and drink red wine believing it to be the blood of their Christ.

 

Their is no (to me anyway) rational explanation for that behavior on a weekly basis with special festivals many times a year.

 

AFAIAC they are welcome to believe in the same way that some Thai areas do as written by the OP.

 

As long as no harm comes to anyone, does it really matter if there is no rationalisation to it?

 

If people would only live and let live the world could be a much nicer place.

[EVENKEEL]

I've seen them by the road doing some crazy dancing to weird drum music. It's real. Took wife and 2 of her friends to an exorcism. I didn't watch but drank couple cans leo on my tailgate. It was a long day trip to find this guy that does the exorcism.

 

Supposedly better quality than the voodoo dancing.

Edited April 18, 2021 by EVENKEEL

[Acharn]

I'd say this was animism. There are various small devotional cults in Thailand. For a while my late wife was involved with one in Sattahip. They were based on the Vishnu cult as expressed in the Ramakhien. One of the members was always possessed by Hanuman, the Monkey God who helped Rama on his quest to recover his kidnapped wife. They would meet once a month or so, and on special days conduct rituals and ceremonies, which included being possessed by spirits. I've never heard of a group doing it all day long, but if a whole village is into it I wouldn't be surprised. Don't look for a "logical" explanation. There are lots of shamans, ghost doctors, witches, mystics, and seers who hold regular sessions/seances where they are possessed by some spirit and act in bizarre ways -- for example smoking a whole pack of cigarettes at once, or at least five or six at once. They answer questions and collect money, make predictions, especially of winning numbers in the lottery, tell people where to look for lost things, etc. I don't know if these little cults are still common -- my first wife died twenty-five years ago and we stopped such activities ten years before that. 

[Bigz]

In my village we had 2 similar rituals this year already. One was done by a family where the son in law keeps beating the wife and they reckon that he is possessed. This is just plain superstition, I told them the guy just need a good beating but they prefered to pay 10k for a witch doctor and another 10 for the party. The <deleted> is still beating his wife...

[Bigz]

On 4/18/2021 at 10:19 AM, Gumballl said:

Ha! In western cultures we are brought up to believe that a woman, named Mary, was magically inseminated by God himself.

 

Thais are very superstitious; westerners not so much... except for the aforementioned anomaly.

 

P.S. I wonder who will add to this thread... in particular, who will add the 13th comment.

I bet Joseph had hard time at work at the carpenter workshop trying to convince his colleagues that although the baby not from him Mary would never cheat. Am I the 13th?

[Bigz]

Here is a short video from February. This may be similar to the one your wife is talking about. This is a khmer village in Buriram though.

[Brunolem]

22 hours ago, billd766 said:

Devout Christians also believe in ghosts too. 

 

They eat wafers believing them to be the body of their Christ and drink red wine believing it to be the blood of their Christ.

 

Now, if they replaced the wafers with waffles, I would consider converting...

[hotchilli]

On 4/18/2021 at 12:28 AM, alexlm said:

I don't even know the name of it. She doesn't remember too.

Lunar-cy?

[hotchilli]

54 minutes ago, Bigz said:

Here is a short video from February. This may be similar to the one your wife is talking about. This is a khmer village in Buriram though.

I think that's a normal Saturday night Lao khao bash.

[TKDfella]

On 4/18/2021 at 1:34 AM, alexlm said:

Just asked my Wife the name of it.

She is not sure but she said:

รำอ้อ

Apparently about people who have died and their ghost return give some form of protection to children, house etc. I'm told that Khon Kaen University has studied this kind of culture and its variations so perhaps the OP could consult them if interested.

[digger70]

Ghosts and Dance in Isaan? Twice a year? Any logical. 

 

No Logical answer for that.

[Mario666]

On 4/18/2021 at 12:02 AM, Kenny202 said:

A) They probably were on some sort of drug (mushrooms)

 

B) my first gf was like this normally for 1-3 days normally when she would lose her sh$#&t for no apparent reason

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's called having a Period?

 

[elliss]

4 hours ago, Bigz said:

I bet Joseph had hard time at work at the carpenter workshop trying to convince his colleagues that although the baby not from him Mary would never cheat. Am I the 13th?

 

      Christian religion . 

      Much the same as any other religion .

      Religion is the opium , of the people ...

[Andycoops]

There is a village near mine where people go for similar rites to be performed.

I went once along time ago and it was an old man sitting under a tree performing cleansing rituals and reading palms etc.

I called him a shaman (I don't know what he's called in Thai)  and I believe he still there but my wife hasn't been for a few years now.

It's all about the Thais being obsessed with good luck.

[cooked]

There seems to be an awful lot of self congratulatory "Thais are superstitious, obsessed with good luck" comments here.

It must be so gratifying to now that if these posters had grown up in similar circumstances they certainly wouldn't have believed in such things. They probably haven't seen and experienced the things that I have seen in Isaan (not Sisaket) involving suicides, lucky lotto numbers, strange things happening at funerals, monks solving family problems, ghosts in the car (seen by everyone but me, not that I care). 

I feel unaffected by these things, but pay respect to the feelings of those that are. 

Removing people's sense of cultural identity has become very popular recently, not only in Thailand, the Western world is convinced that that's the way to go (unless you are an ethnic minority, of course, you are lower down on the list).