Can't Lose Weight

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Not wasting my time but I can understand why some people are shocked by your comment ????

 

I just take you serious but most of us would think that people would know about the problems with breakfast cereals. Problem is that they market it good. Just like you read in the article i posted. There is a lot to learn when you first start out.

I appreciate your wise, detailed responses -  thank you! 

[BigStar]

16 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Feel free not to comment if you think that. It is definitely not the case, I knew nothing about losing weight and have learned a lot in this thread. 

I had thought that fruit loops, mango and weetabix were a lot better than my previous bacon and egg sandwiches, but seemingly not. 

But you've already received LOTS of info, were directed to sources, had plenty of time to research fruit loops and anything else, and know what Google is quite well. You're really not that stupid. The time to get off your b.u.tt was yesterday.

 

Actually the longer this thread is open, the more misinformation you and others like you are going to receive from the ignorant, the antiquated, and the thumb worn MuscleMags. Go to the forums I suggested where people know what they're talking about.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by BigStar

[robblok]

@BigStar

 

Its not the muscleheads who say that calories in vs calories out work. Just the whole scientific world. In labratory controlled experiments stuff like keto and intermittent fasting don't preform much better or better at all. 

 

Now self reporting.. that is a different story but then again there is a reason why real scientist place question marks with that research. 

 

But i think everyone can agree that unprocessed foods are better then processed. That sugar is not good for you. Once you eat the right foods its calories in vs calories out. Sorry but that is just it. I know some of us still believe in a magic bullet. But after just eating clean foods.. then it really comes down to calories in vs calories out.

 

I can understand that calories in vs calories out does not work with bad foods because of insulin resistance. But if you eat enough veggies and whole foods then no problem

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/food/2021/01/21/keto-diet-study/

 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by robblok

[jackdd]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

I can understand that calories in vs calories out does not work with bad foods because of insulin resistance.

It works with all foods, that's the great thing about it.

If all you eat is one pizza per day, you will lose weight. (This would of course not be a healthy diet, but you would lose weight, due to less calories in than calories out)

[BigStar]

53 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I had thought that fruit loops, mango and weetabix were a lot better than my previous bacon and egg sandwiches, but seemingly not. 

Here's a list of what to eat and not to eat. Fruit loops ain't on there. Ignorance is no longer an excuse, just can't be clearer than that. Print out, frame.

 

http://www.nutritionequation.org/how-to/no-sugar-no-starch-diet-getting-started/

 

One objection our low stress experts will make, as with the newly discovered Enhanced Longevity Through Low Stress Pigouts principle (different thread), is that one may have to think and worry and suffer. But no.

1. Know theory
2. Read list
3. Remember list.

Complicated? I never need to think and worry about what I eat. WOT? It's all quite automatic. Choosing among the wide variety of junk food must be more stressful.

 

No, I don't suffer and miss eating ice cream (a moral imperative, it seems) and other junk. Actually when I see some fat old fart in his 60s or 70s sitting outside of KFC eating ice cream, I only think, "You idiot. Hope you took your insulin shot." My glance really isn't envious at all.

 

 

[robblok]

27 minutes ago, jackdd said:

It works with all foods, that's the great thing about it.

If all you eat is one pizza per day, you will lose weight. (This would of course not be a healthy diet, but you would lose weight, due to less calories in than calories out)

Yes but you might lose more weight if you eat healthier and the same amount of calories. Insulin and stuff does count. Though of course it can't fully negate calories in vs calories out. 

 

And of course calories in calories out works. I posted the twinkie diet that worked. But it might not be the most healthy or efficient way to go.

 

But once you eat good foods then the diet does not really matter that much. Unlike what the Keto cult may say. 

[ozimoron]

18 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Here's a list of what to eat and not to eat. Fruit loops ain't on there. Ignorance is no longer an excuse, just can't be clearer than that. Print out, frame.

 

http://www.nutritionequation.org/how-to/no-sugar-no-starch-diet-getting-started/

 

I notice that it says not to eat yogurt but I have read many times that unsweetened Greek style yogurt is good to eat.

 

Also, that article seems to allow processed meats (ham and pepperoni). I thought these kinds of meats should be avoided?

[BigStar]

37 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I notice that it says not to eat yogurt but I have read many times that unsweetened Greek style yogurt is good to eat.

 

Also, that article seems to allow processed meats (ham and pepperoni). I thought these kinds of meats should be avoided?

Greek yoghurt and milk: lactose is the issue there.

Processed meats OK, otherwise the exclusion of bacon would destroy half the low carb community. ???? None other than the great low carb/keto guru Gary Taubes himself has bacon & eggs daily for bf.

 

Pigging out is a different matter, but most people wouldn't do that. Key point for the diet is that they don't raise insulin levels. Foods that do or may encourage excess (nuts; note that the OP couldn't stop w/ a handful; no, he had to eat the whole bag) aren't on the list. The amounts of some foods are limited. What's wrong w/ skinless meat touted here constantly? More protein encourages an insulin reaction (protein! say it ain't so????); fat doesn't and is more filling.

 

There's no point in pretending a diet isn't a diet or shouldn't be a diet and deciding for people who are having the problem what's OK because you don't or wouldn't have that problem. Decades of study by some very smart people have gone into this. Second guessing really isn't wise and rather fatuous.

 

The initial diet recommendations take no prisoners because they're aimed at the vast number of seriously overweight folks. They're designed to work. One of the logical errors of CICO arises partly from its design by people who don't have much problem losing weight themselves and don't understand why others do, because they mistakenly think fat gain and loss isn't a hormonal problem. That is, they have only  the most childlike idea of what the "out" part of the equation means, exactly, for different metabolisms (notably the easy weight gainers), despite all the smug lip service.

 

Politically, low carb and keto aren't acceptable because they might encourage eating meat, so they're often subject to spurious attacks that illogically and probably quite purposely confuse energy expenditure with fat gain. One can in fact follow a vegan keto diet (we gon' ignore that). Who would want to, but there it is.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by BigStar

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I appreciate your wise, detailed responses -  thank you! 

It's actually really easy to lose weight unless you have thyroid issues, let us know what junk you are eating? and how much booze? have you had the blood tests yet?

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

It's actually really easy to lose weight unless you have thyroid issues, let us know what junk you are eating? and how much booze? have you had the blood tests yet?

What blood tests? 

I got a full Medical this year. 

I have not drank alcohol for 20 years, not an easy one to quit. 

Quit smoking 7 years ago. 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Neeranam

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

back to mangoes then ???? 

 

with strawberries.....but no bloody loops!

[SunnyinBangrak]

On 4/19/2021 at 4:57 PM, Neeranam said:

I also do a 6pack app thing. 

I will try to run more but... 

Are nuts fattening?

No expert, but I reckon it's just a metabolism thing. I have the exact opposite problem. Since quitting booze about a decade ago I can't keep weight on and people ask if I'm ill. Would love to gain 10kg and fill out a bit. Now around 65kg and slowly but steadily losing. Last time I had a medical, about a month ago, Dr said I have v high cholesterol and must stop eating fatty foods and treats! Talk about bonkers. How can you put weight on eating salads and toasted nuts?!

 I'd try a kratom leaf with morning coffee - now that it's legal. Should speed up the ticker a bit and passively burn some fat. Again, not a doctor! Best of luck with your struggle.

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Greek yoghurt and milk: lactose is the issue there.

 

Apparently Greek yogurt has very little lactose which is what confused me about the recommendation against yogurt. I take your point about the list being for beginners, like myself.

 

16 minutes ago, BigStar said:

More protein encourages an insulin reaction (protein! say it ain't so????); fat doesn't and is more filling.

 

This is my biggest problem. I feel I eat more protein than fat. My interest is in fixing my insulin resistance before it becomes worse. Most of my protein comes from eating salmon and sardines. I am not naturally a huge egg eater but eating more lately, and more cheese to get the fats. I have been eating more nuts (walnuts and pistachios) but seem to be gaining belly fat. I've only been on a low carb / keto / intermittent fasting diet a little over 2 weeks.

 

Thanks for taking the time for such a considered response.

[Neeranam]

13 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

No expert, but I reckon it's just a metabolism thing. I have the exact opposite problem. Since quitting booze about a decade ago I can't keep weight on and people ask if I'm ill. Would love to gain 10kg and fill out a bit. Now around 65kg and slowly but steadily losing. Last time I had a medical, about a month ago, Dr said I have v high cholesterol and must stop eating fatty foods and treats! Talk about bonkers. How can you put weight on eating salads and toasted nuts?!

 I'd try a kratom leaf with morning coffee - now that it's legal. Should speed up the ticker a bit and passively burn some fat. Again, not a doctor! Best of luck with your struggle.

Interesting, I recently gave up coffee, I wonder if that makes a difference?

[scubascuba3]

53 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What blood tests? 

I got a full Medical this year. 

I have not drank alcohol for 20 years, not an easy one to quit. 

Quit smoking 7 years ago. 

 

In Pattaya you can get your blood checked, 15 items for 500 baht, so cheap it's sensible to do it, to highlight any issues early including blood sugar. What junk are you eating? I'm talking chocolate, cake, pastries, biscuits, ice cream, yoghurts, peanuts, crisps, chips etc

[Neeranam]

I also eat two or three of these in the evening with my low fat cocoa. 

 

21g fat per 100g

 

Another area to cut down or quit. 

[scubascuba3]

22 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I also eat two or three of these in the evening with my low fat cocoa. 

 

21g fat per 100g

 

Another area to cut down or quit. 

so no other junk, just these 3 biscuits a day?

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Apparently Greek yogurt has very little lactose which is what confused me about the recommendation against yogurt. I take your point about the list being for beginners, like myself.

Many if not most of the overweight are already insulin resistant. It means, unfortunately, a greater sensitivity, perhaps much greater, to, and desire for, sugar and carbs. So just a little, in the amounts our ace Nutritionists find quite normal and acceptable, is actually detrimental and ultimately creates more fat. ("Calories in" has nothing to do with it, you see.) That's a reason "moderation" won't work for them. So the idea is to be sure insulin levels remain as low as possible at all times.

 

So, first put out the fire. Then after the weight's off (and off for a couple of months, to help the body weight reset), you may add things back in gradually and see how things go. It's a business. 

 

On 4/21/2021 at 9:44 AM, ozimoron said:

Recently my GP told me that I have insulin resistance but all other blood tests were fine with a slightly high (5.1) total cholesterol count. This scared me

 

 

[scaldedfummy]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

so no other junk, just these 3 biscuits a day?

 

I miss this..

[realviking48]

 

 

[BigStar]

On 4/21/2021 at 11:13 AM, Neeranam said:

I'm 55. I have a 6 pack app on my phone. Do about 20 minutes every day but so far no 6 pack ???? 

Ah. Well into the steeper of the downhill slopes with no sign of slowing.

 

 

Well, while we're attempting to fix your growing weight problem we might as try as well to help you slow down your strength and muscle mass degeneration.

 

On 4/19/2021 at 4:45 PM, Neeranam said:

I also run 25 km per week. 

 

What could I be doing wrong? 

First, not doing strength training. At your advanced age you gotta work on major muscle groups, but safely. Yeah, protect them joints & soft tissues, focus on preservation at least (though, if you got nothin, then you can actually gain a bit), and in general get the most bang/effort in the least amount of time. Not easy, BTW. We're talkin' intensity.

 

There you are just wasting 20 minutes a day and courting repetitive motion stress injury more than is necessary.

 

You'll need to ignore the usual MuscleMag advice (hello shoulder, knee, hip, and back pain; goodbye Arnold), get real, and listen to a strong old pro trainer. Study up on how to achieve time under load without  heavy weights and few or even no reps. Less can be more, surprisingly so.

 

Yep, your measly little 20 minutes don't have to be wasted but can be put to effective use. Fitness with health, man.

 

Quote

A good workout -- a really good strength workout -- can be completed in between 20-30 minutes, even less if it's intense enough. I like to use a job analogy: all strength-training workouts take you to about the same place, more or less, in about five years, approximately the same muscularity, and body weight size and strength, but some guys are spending a couple hours at the gym everyday, versus other people spending as little as an hour at the gym every week. . . .

 

If ever there was an incentive to continue with one's training, it would be to prevent ending up like the old folks. You've heard the saying "Use it or lose it"? Well, even if you use it, you are going to lose it, but you can slow the loss down to a trickle.

 

So, in training, what does NOT matter?

 

The amount of weight, and the number of repetitions, ie, mechanical work, doesn't seem to matter that much. More important than how much or how many is HOW you perform each repetition -- that matters a lot.

 

A lot of heavy lifters -- who lift for the sole joy of "how much" they can lift -- might want to argue with that, but ultimately, the amount of weight lifted is very much tied into injury-potential.

 

 

     --Steve Maxwell, Dear Over-45 Trainee

 

Train for the ages, right up into your 90s.

 

Second, shorten the comfortable slo-mo running sched to one or two 30 min sessions a week of interval training to really up the ol' VO2. You'll need to work up to those.

 

https://www.verywellfit.com/effective-30-minute-running-workouts-2911891

https://www.active.com/running/articles/3-interval-training-plans-to-build-fitness-fast

 

Finally, try to slow the mental decline. You've recently taken a backwards step.

 

19 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I recently gave up coffee, I wonder if that makes a difference?

Seems to have, unfortunately.???? We got you on berries now but you'll need to add that coffee right back in.

 

 

I might also suggest creatine:

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-benefits-of-creatine

 

You can order it from Lazada. Been helping me to maintain my own brilliance, obviously.

 

'Course, now, we did take away your cr.a.ppy mixed nuts, but they probably included few almonds and no walnuts. After you've lost the weight and developed a bit of self-discipline, buy some almonds and have a handful a day (not the whole bag).

 

Guess you're all set now. Whatta forum, eh. Good luck! ????

Edited April 23, 2021 by BigStar

[cobra]

On 4/21/2021 at 4:23 PM, jackdd said:

You are throwing together "Keto" and "intermittent fasting", these are two different ways to diet, which can be combined though, Keto on its own has nothing to do with fasting.

Regarding: "where its now forced to convert body fat to sugar for energy": This is nothing exclusive to Keto or IM, this always happens with any diet that puts you in a caloric deficit, this is just how our body works.

 

Did you also try this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia

 

You are correct in that both can be related to dieting,

My point was in some forms of keto there is no net loss of daily calories, thus you are technically not dieting, you're substituting fat for carbs, 
The op is trying to lose fat.

 

.... 

Ketosis is a metabolic state in which your body uses fat for fuel instead of carbs.

It occurs when you significantly reduce your consumption of carbohydrates, limiting your body’s supply of glucose (sugar), which is the main source of energy for the cells.

Following a ketogenic diet is the most effective way to enter ketosis. Generally, this involves limiting carb consumption to around 20 to 50 grams per day and filling up on fats, such as meat, fish, eggs, nuts, and healthy oils (6Trusted Source).

It’s also important to moderate your protein consumption. This is because protein can be converted into glucose if consumed in high amounts, which may slow your transition into ketosis (10Trusted Source).

Practicing intermittent fasting could also help you enter ketosis faster. There are many different forms of intermittent fasting, but the most common method involves limiting food intake to around 8 hours per day and fasting for the remaining 16 hours (11Trusted Source).

Edited April 23, 2021 by cobra

[cobra]

On 4/21/2021 at 4:51 PM, robblok said:

Just for the record I don't think you have a good idea about what keto means. If you have normal days in between then you will be out of ketose in no time. That negates the whole " supposed" benefit of turning your body into a fat burning machine when you get into ketose.

 

I say supposed as keto is not that much more effective as caloric restrictions. In laboratory tests (gold standard) its shown not to work much better as caloric restrictions.  Having said that for some people it works for others it does not.

 

"Just for the record" actually I think I do, 

the op is trying to lose fat, there's more than one way to achieve that.

 

... Ketosis is a metabolic state in which your body uses fat for fuel instead of carbs.

It occurs when you significantly reduce your consumption of carbohydrates, limiting your body’s supply of glucose (sugar), which is the main source of energy for the cells.

Following a ketogenic diet is the most effective way to enter ketosis ...

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by cobra

[robblok]

4 hours ago, cobra said:

 

"Just for the record" actually I think I do, 

the op is trying to lose fat, there's more than one way to achieve that.

 

... Ketosis is a metabolic state in which your body uses fat for fuel instead of carbs.

It occurs when you significantly reduce your consumption of carbohydrates, limiting your body’s supply of glucose (sugar), which is the main source of energy for the cells.

Following a ketogenic diet is the most effective way to enter ketosis ...

 

If you had aood idea about ketosis then you would know that you need to keep onto keto no breaks. The moment you take carbs your out of ketosis (ok it depends a bit on the amount) but whole days taking carbs.. gone is ketosis and it takes a few days then to get back into it. That is why people dont have off days from keto because its hard to get back to ketosis.

 

Basically your wasting then a lot of time getting back into ketosis all the time. Just read up on it. I might not like the whole keto diet that much but at least i know  how it works.

[robblok]

5 hours ago, cobra said:

 

You are correct in that both can be related to dieting,

My point was in some forms of keto there is no net loss of daily calories, thus you are technically not dieting, you're substituting fat for carbs, 
The op is trying to lose fat.

 

.... 

Ketosis is a metabolic state in which your body uses fat for fuel instead of carbs.

It occurs when you significantly reduce your consumption of carbohydrates, limiting your body’s supply of glucose (sugar), which is the main source of energy for the cells.

Following a ketogenic diet is the most effective way to enter ketosis. Generally, this involves limiting carb consumption to around 20 to 50 grams per day and filling up on fats, such as meat, fish, eggs, nuts, and healthy oils (6Trusted Source).

It’s also important to moderate your protein consumption. This is because protein can be converted into glucose if consumed in high amounts, which may slow your transition into ketosis (10Trusted Source).

Practicing intermittent fasting could also help you enter ketosis faster. There are many different forms of intermittent fasting, but the most common method involves limiting food intake to around 8 hours per day and fasting for the remaining 16 hours (11Trusted Source).

Ketosis also does not work when there is no caloric deficit. This has been proven in laboratories. Really for someone knowing about keto you have a lot information lacking. 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/22/2021 at 2:19 PM, Brierley said:

I feel like I'm constantly in calorie deficit, my caloric intake is often around 800 calories per day yet I still don't lose weight. But there again, I'm 72 years old so my metabolism is way slow....which is why I asked earlier for posters to say their age. Plus I run 4 miles every morning yet unless I eat grass for three meals a day, I don't lose.

You may be eating the wrong sort of food. I lost no weight at all till I stopped eating so much sugar and have lost at least 4 kg just by that. Not eating less overall and not hungry.

Supermarket food is full of sugar, so need to read labels to get the lowest sugar possible. Many foods convert easily to sugar once consumed, like pasta and white bread.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/22/2021 at 10:11 PM, scubascuba3 said:

In Pattaya you can get your blood checked, 15 items for 500 baht, so cheap it's sensible to do it, to highlight any issues early including blood sugar. What junk are you eating? I'm talking chocolate, cake, pastries, biscuits, ice cream, yoghurts, peanuts, crisps, chips etc

Out of those I only eat biscuits ( as low in sugar as possible ), occasional crisps ( like the diabetic nurse says, no point in overdoing it and never enjoying anything one eats- in moderation, of course ) and chips now and then.

I eat unsweetened yoghurt, which diabetic nurse says is OK- I assume you mean the sweetened sort.

[Brierley]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You may be eating the wrong sort of food. I lost no weight at all till I stopped eating so much sugar and have lost at least 4 kg just by that. Not eating less overall and not hungry.

Supermarket food is full of sugar, so need to read labels to get the lowest sugar possible. Many foods convert easily to sugar once consumed, like pasta and white bread.

We don't have sugar or salt in our house and I never eat anything such as cookies or cakes or drink fizzy/soft drinks/booze. My diet is literally, every day:

 

100% chocolate powder/cocoa in the morning

1 cup Oatmeal with almond milk for breakfast, maybe a small greenish banana too.

fresh grilled chicken or fish with salad, oil and vinegar dressing/green veg for my main meal.

vegetables/orange/apple/handful almonds for snacks - a small cube of cheddar or sardines.

water with lemon juice.

 

Once a week I might have a sandwich for lunch, olive bread from nana bakery and grilled chicken breast.

 

That's it, nothing more.

 

[DavisH]

On 4/19/2021 at 5:21 PM, Brierley said:

My UK doc. tells me he wants me at 75kgs, I'm 189 and 86 (the computer says it is so). 

It depends on your build. I'm also 189cm, 91kg now - and its too much for me. I'm good at about 82-83kg. I haven't been 75 kg since I was 22. 

[Brierley]

6 minutes ago, DavisH said:

It depends on your build. I'm also 189cm, 91kg now - and its too much for me. I'm good at about 82-83kg. I haven't been 75 kg since I was 22. 

82kgs is excellent for me also. The thing is, I was 75 kgs most of my adult life, eight years ago, at age 63, I went from 77 to 85 kgs and I've been fighting it every since.