Pattaya: German in a Benz kills motorcycle taxi woman after she shoos away soi dogs

[mikebell]

16 hours ago, mrfill said:

And yet the UK has its Royal Society for the Protection of Cruelty to Animals (founded 1824), but can only manage the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (founded 1884 - 60 years later).

Very true - blame Victoria.

[Brierley]

1 minute ago, mikebell said:

Would the woman have been on the road if it were not for a dog?  It could have been any driver of any make of car.

Funny. It reminds me of the Middle Eastern law that the passenger is liable if the taxi driver hits a camel, without the passenger the taxi wouldn't have been there...same silly logic really which tries to excuse bad driving and put the blame on someone/thing else..

[mikebell]

21 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

And I think you are 80 years late for job in Poland that you may have enjoyed.

The woman is described as trying to remove lame animal from road. If true, aside from being kind act, it was thoughtful of others. Had a motorbike hit the animal, the motorbike passengers most likely would have crashed.  The Merc driver was obviously speeding if he was unable to stop or slow.  It doesn't even look like there was much braking.

 

 

 

My job application for Auschwitz was rejected on account of my valuing human life more than that of animals.  There should be no dogs on the road;  the unfortunate victim died because of her kindness.  The central thrust of my 1st comment is stray dogs are an unnecessary hazard on already dangerous roads which could be rectified by Thai authorities grasping the nettle.

Your name calling shows you have failed to understand the problem & my solution.

[mikebell]

22 hours ago, Brierley said:

Sounds to me like the Benz driver ploughed into the back of her and killed her, hardly a dog related death, more like foreigner who wasn't watching where he was going. 

Had she not been on the road it would not have happened.  If there were no stray dogs she would not have been on the road.

[Brierley]

3 minutes ago, mikebell said:

Had she not been on the road it would not have happened.  If there were no stray dogs she would not have been on the road.

If the road hadn't been built there'd have been no traffic, same silly logic.

[Patong2021]

9 hours ago, josthomz said:

 

What a steaming pile of horsesh***t... 

 

ESP has nothing at all to do with the braking. If anything it so happens that in Mercedes-Benz cars both the ESP and ABS share several sensors, a pump, a reservoir and a computer unit. 

 

They are very different systems. ABS (Antilock Brakes) is a system which when you brake very hard it will automatically actuate the brake caliper many times per second making sure that you don't completely lock your wheels. Because when you lock your wheels while braking you lose any and all ability to steer (and thus avoid any objects). So ABS gives you steering while depressing the brake pedal fully. And yes, it will indeed leave a tiny skid mark on the asphalt.

 

BUT depressing the brake pedal fully is by far not the fastest way to stop your car. Any experienced driver would have heard of something called "threshold braking" whereas you depress the brake pedal to the threshold (limit) of where the ABS would normally trigger. This way you avoid locking the wheels completely! And you will stop the car faster than if you triggered ABS and there will be no skid mark.

 

Who is to say that this young German driving wasn't using this technique threshold braking? You ThaiVisa Accidents Experts / ThaiVisa Traffic Police Experts really need to give your opinion more humbly when you discuss about things that you don't know and that even an expert couldn't know due to lack of details in the report. 

 

And to finish this rant, the ESP System in Mercedes-Benz cars, also known as Estability Control. It is there to help stabilize the car while cornering, during oversteering, during understeering or while slipping. It will automatically any of the 4 tires and/or limit the engine power to prevent the driver from losing control of the car. It has nothing to do with braking. 

 

 

The subject of the ABS systems came up because it was used as an explanation/excuse for the absence of visible signs of the avoidance of the collision. I made the point that the presence of the ABS option does not exclude  evidence of braking or crash avoidance. They are not mutually exclusive. 

 

You have taken position as someone with full knowledge of Mercedes Benz. Ok.  And now we explore your expert knowledge of the Mercedes Benz automobile, yes? 

 

1.  How do you know ABS was working?   Maybe it was and maybe it was not. You do not know it was on. You have assumed it was on.  I do not say it was off, but I also do not know if it was on.  In the Mercedes models like we see in photo, the ABS is easily turned off.  You go to dynamo set up and turn it off. It is simple procedure done in seconds. There are many videos on you tube that show how to do.  It is not uncommon for the hiso kids who race each other on Thailand roads to do this because they think it gives race car feel. I am not saying this was the case here, but just as I cannot say the situation, neither can you.  

 

2. You assume that traction control and ABS are always on and are separate from each other. The ESP system needs the ABS system to function. That's why if there is malfunction in ESP, the ABS light will come on as well. It is called a unified component.

 

You make many assumptions. I do not. The people who saw the collision did not make any mention of braking or slowing down or driver making collision avoidance.  Eye witnesses are not always reliable, but on something like this, when they describe vehicle as moving fast, I think it is safe to believe that the vehicle was not moving slowly. The fact that the motorbike so perfectly perforated the vehicle indicates a high rate of speed at impact. The head imprint in the windshield would not have occurred at a slow speed.

 

It is very nice that you assume the vehicle driver was blessed with superior driving skill and was engaged in "threshold braking". Maybe he was, although it is improbable that such a skilled person would be driving an old Mercedes in Pattaya at this time, especially an entry level model like this. You have a very vivid imagine that allows you to attach so many fine qualities to someone you know nothing about. How about you just rely on established facts?

 Look at the  impact damage. If the vehicle had been braking or moving at a slow speed  it would not have an insertion like this and the poor woman would not have left the imprint of her head in the windscreen.  That's what your hero driver did. The woman was the victim. Because the driver was  a foreigner did not guarantee that he was a responsible driver. 

[Excel]

42 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The subject of the ABS systems came up because it was used as an explanation/excuse for the absence of visible signs of the avoidance of the collision. I made the point that the presence of the ABS option does not exclude  evidence of braking or crash avoidance. They are not mutually exclusive. 

 

You have taken position as someone with full knowledge of Mercedes Benz. Ok.  And now we explore your expert knowledge of the Mercedes Benz automobile, yes? 

 

1.  How do you know ABS was working?   Maybe it was and maybe it was not. You do not know it was on. You have assumed it was on.  I do not say it was off, but I also do not know if it was on.  In the Mercedes models like we see in photo, the ABS is easily turned off.  You go to dynamo set up and turn it off. It is simple procedure done in seconds. There are many videos on you tube that show how to do.  It is not uncommon for the hiso kids who race each other on Thailand roads to do this because they think it gives race car feel. I am not saying this was the case here, but just as I cannot say the situation, neither can you.  

 

2. You assume that traction control and ABS are always on and are separate from each other. The ESP system needs the ABS system to function. That's why if there is malfunction in ESP, the ABS light will come on as well. It is called a unified component.

 

You make many assumptions. I do not. The people who saw the collision did not make any mention of braking or slowing down or driver making collision avoidance.  Eye witnesses are not always reliable, but on something like this, when they describe vehicle as moving fast, I think it is safe to believe that the vehicle was not moving slowly. The fact that the motorbike so perfectly perforated the vehicle indicates a high rate of speed at impact. The head imprint in the windshield would not have occurred at a slow speed.

 

It is very nice that you assume the vehicle driver was blessed with superior driving skill and was engaged in "threshold braking". Maybe he was, although it is improbable that such a skilled person would be driving an old Mercedes in Pattaya at this time, especially an entry level model like this. You have a very vivid imagine that allows you to attach so many fine qualities to someone you know nothing about. How about you just rely on established facts?

 Look at the  impact damage. If the vehicle had been braking or moving at a slow speed  it would not have an insertion like this and the poor woman would not have left the imprint of her head in the windscreen.  That's what your hero driver did. The woman was the victim. Because the driver was  a foreigner did not guarantee that he was a responsible driver. 

@josthomes was correct when he said "What a steaming pile of horsesh***t... "   And this just adds to the pile of it.  Amassing how so many on here claim to know what happened and how it happened and were not there and yet by there own writing they display their complete ignorance of so many factors. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Excel

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/11/2021 at 2:42 PM, mikebell said:

Another dog related death.  Thais care more about dogs than people.  There should be NO dogs anywhere unless on a lead.  All others should be euthanized.  Thailand is SIXTY years behind UK in this respect.

If they were like that, it wouldn't be the LOS that many of us love.

[snowgard]

18 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

Now if you are saying it was not speeding, how it comes he was unable to stop in time or even to turn the wheel at the last minute and avoid the collision? He wasn't paying attention? Busy with the phone?

Drunk or drug? What is your bet?

 

Wow what nonsense !!! Do you really think the motorcycle would still be standing there if it was way too fast? And the body flew only a few meters?

 

For me it looks more like she was driving and stopped in the middle of the road for no reason for subsequent drivers and was still sitting on the motorbike. Maybe she didn't think about the traffic behind and just stopped. Perhaps the brake / rear light on your motorbike did not work so that the following traffic could not see she well. Perhaps she was also dressed in dark clothes. Did she use a helmet?

 

So much is unclear !!! We don't know what really happened and we can only speculate. So let's wait and see. Maybe CCTV can provide the answers.

 

But my opinion is that everyone who drives in Thailand must have a dash cam.

RIP young lady!!!

[Kerryd]

We were always taught to make sure you were safe first before doing something like wandering out onto a busy street. 

For example, last year I was riding in Buriram. Turned onto highway 24 (West), went a short bit and turned at the next U-Turn to go East.
As I was doing the U-Turn I saw a large hunk of rubber (blown tire) in the middle of the Eastbound "fast" lane.

Did I stop in the middle of the road, get off the bike, grab the debris and walk it to the side of the road ?
No. I parked on the side of the U-Turn "wide-out", put my hazard lights on, waited for a car to go by, then went and grabbed the tire piece (was nearly a third of a whole truck tire).

You never stop in the middle of the road unless you absolutely have no other choice (i.e. there's an accident directly in front of you). 

If there's a dog on the road you feel is in danger, you pull over to the side and check to make sure it's safe before you walk out onto the road.

From what I can tell, this accident happened about 850 meter before the Chaiyapruek intersection, in the strip between where Jomtien #2 road connects to the Suk and the Chaiyapruek Post Office.
As you can see in the photo below, there are 4 traffic lanes and the "shoulder" lane (no, it's not a "bike" lane even though it's used as such).

In the photo in the OP, the car/bike are in the "middle-left" lane, right on the divider from the "middle-right" lane, which puts them almost dead center on the highway. There are streetlights down the center divider. I placed an arrow at the approx location of the accident.

But we don't know (for example) what the traffic was like or at what time it happened. I've ridden along there many times in the day and at night and it is often like driving in the Indy 500 as people race from the Na Jomtien 6 Intersection to the Chaiyapruek intersection. A 3km stretch with no stops.

Stopping your scooter in the middle of the highway to try and shoo some dumb dogs off the highway ? Even if everyone was doing the speed limit and traffic was light, you are putting yourself at risk.
I would be really surprised to find out that the Mercedes driver was doing the speed limit (or less). More likely ripping along at 110-120.

Did he end up having to swerve because the dumb dogs she was trying to get off the road wandered in front of him ? I've had idiot dogs run in front of me and just as I am about to try and go behind them, they stop and run back the other way. Last Fall we were riding up North and an idiot dog decided he just had to cross the road in between a dozen motorcycles. He ran out in front of the guy ahead of me and almost made it. Luckily buddy was able to maintain control of the bike. I hit my brakes, expecting a crash, but buddy kept going. The dog spun across the road, making 3 complete spins before jumping up and running into the bush yelping.

Keep in mind that the only reason you are even hearing about this is because a foreigner was involved. Had it been a Thai in the Mercedes, it wouldn't have made the ThaiVisa news at all. 

 

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Keep in mind that the only reason you are even hearing about this is because a foreigner was involved.

There is another report today of a Thai woman on a bike being killed by a Thai pick-up driver. 

[Kerryd]

12 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

There is another report today of a Thai woman on a bike being killed by a Thai pick-up driver. 

Lol - I spent so long on my post I never noticed that one. I stand (sit) corrected, though I am a bit surprised that story made it to TV.

[kingofthemountain]

3 hours ago, snowgard said:

Wow what nonsense !!! Do you really think the motorcycle would still be standing there if it was way too fast? And the body flew only a few meters?

 

For me it looks more like she was driving and stopped in the middle of the road for no reason for subsequent drivers and was still sitting on the motorbike. Maybe she didn't think about the traffic behind and just stopped. Perhaps the brake / rear light on your motorbike did not work so that the following traffic could not see she well. Perhaps she was also dressed in dark clothes. Did she use a helmet?

 

So much is unclear !!! We don't know what really happened and we can only speculate. So let's wait and see. Maybe CCTV can provide the answers.

 

But my opinion is that everyone who drives in Thailand must have a dash cam.

RIP young lady!!!

i am sorry to inform you are the one coming with nonsense

 

you should look more at the pictures before to come with silly statements: the motorcycle is literally inserted in the car, that's possible only if the car was going at high speed, and this fact is confirmed by the witnesses who were presents at the scene

 

The body flew only few meters because the head of the poor girl was unfortunately stopped by the windscreen, and again you can see it if you bother to look at the pictures

 

All the rest of your post is irrelevant and mostly presumption

 

Honestly your pathetic attempt to find lame excuses to a reckless speed driving, trying to put the fault on the deceased victim coming with statements like ''she stopped in the middle of the road for no reason'' ''the rear lights of the motorbike wasn't working'' and the best of all ''she was also dressed in dark clothes'' and ''did she use a helmet'' is just a shame imo

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 5/11/2021 at 9:42 AM, mikebell said:

Another dog related death.  Thais care more about dogs than people.  There should be NO dogs anywhere unless on a lead.  All others should be euthanized.  Thailand is SIXTY years behind UK in this respect.

A lot of people won't like that but this is correct.

 

They are a danger to road users at night especially motorcyclists. 

 

I have noted in Pattaya they are becoming more and more numerous and with that dangerous as feral wild dogs in packs are far more aggressive and hostile.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, josthomz said:

If it came down to my personal opinion, I would say that it is not a matter of braking. Just that for some reason he didn't see the motorbike and he didn't even try to brake at all thus the lack of skid marks in the road. 

Possible that the bike lights were not on.  Regardless, the driver that runs into someone in front is always, IMO, at fault. Everyone should drive at a speed they can stop safely in the clear space in front of them, and if visibility is reduced drive slower.

[daejung]

On 5/11/2021 at 4:44 AM, robblok said:

she should not stop in the middle of the road its dangerous. No way of knowing if she turned off her bike (no real light then) or not. The guy probably drove too fast but to have a stationary object in the middle of the road all of a sudden would have had a lot of us in trouble too (me for sure) others better drivers would probably have no problem. I just know that even if im not going fast and all of a sudden there is a stationary object that is not well lit i have a problem.

 

On 5/11/2021 at 4:44 AM, robblok said:

all of a sudden there is a stationary object

 

How can it be "all of a sudden" if "stationary" ??

[Rimmer]

A couple pointless bickering posts have been removed

[daejung]

On 5/11/2021 at 9:38 AM, josthomz said:

Judging by the damage to the car, and to the motorbike for that matter, at the moment of impact the car wasn't driving that fast.

 

Obviously, motorbike accidents are extremely tricky for humans. Even at low speeds the human gets thrown away, and without helmet chances are that of a severe head injury. 

 

The German might be at fault if he was speeding or driving drunk. But it may also be no more than a very tragic accident which led to involuntary manslaughter. 

 

In this case it is very hard to tell with only those pictures.

 Anyway the driver should keep control of his car. At least this is the way it works in France. Same if anybody crossed the road running. The driver must keep control of his car.

[Patong2021]

11 hours ago, Excel said:

@josthomes was correct when he said "What a steaming pile of horsesh***t... "   And this just adds to the pile of it.  Amassing how so many on here claim to know what happened and how it happened and were not there and yet by there own writing they display their complete ignorance of so many factors. 

I do not claim to know what happened, but the results give a strong indication of what occurred. I have explained why the claim that the presence of an ABS option is not adequate to explain the absence of evidence of braking, or reduced speed or collision avoidance. You have said any questioning of the lack of evidence is horse manure.

The comment I responded to made many assumptions about Mercedes ABS, and did not even know that ABS can be turned off.  

 

And what exactly is incorrect? Please offer something substantive, rather than petty insult. What is incorrect?

-Are people who were present who described the vehicle; as moving fast mistaken, that the vehicle did not appear to slow down or brake ? Are they all wrong?

-The  motorbike was neatly  inserted into vehicle. This is a result that occurs at higher speeds of impact. Have the laws of physics changed?

-  Mercedes Benz ABS option can be turned off. Are you saying that ABS remains on all the time?

 

What exactly is incorrect? You cannot refute any of what I wrote. You want to blame dead lady. Ok.  Sometimes it is not the Thai person's fault. Sometimes the foreign person is responsible.

The fact remains that the vehicle had a collision. There was no visible sign of avoidance attempt,  otherwise the vehicle would not have hit the vehicle at the angle that allowed perforation. A driver is responsible for defensive driving and for avoiding road obstructions. Alert drivers do this everyday in Thailand. 

 

 

 

 

[RobU]

On 5/11/2021 at 5:06 AM, Excel said:

Why was he "obviously speeding" ? Please provide facts or references  or else describe it as "in your opinion", although resulting in the damage to the bike  it did not look a high speed impact   I would add that based on experience ," in my opinion" she possibly had no rear light on her bike which may have been a contributory factor.  Other than that the other posters are correct regarding dogs being allowed to room freely and frankly I agree they should either be put down humanely or given to the Koreans living here to BBQ.

Look at the photo the motorbike is buried so far into the front of the car that it remains upright. The motorcyclist was not thrown forward  the car was moving so fast that the bike was pushed from under her and she hit the windscreen that kind of accident only happens when the car is travelling at very high speed.

[mikebell]

22 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If they were like that, it wouldn't be the LOS that many of us love.

It is possible to love a place whilst being aware of its faults: packs of dogs spread disease and discourage any tourists contemplating a Thai holiday; predatory police; no justice system except for the rich; racism; are all faults which the world at large are becoming more aware of.

[mikebell]

On 5/12/2021 at 8:14 AM, Brierley said:

If the road hadn't been built there'd have been no traffic, same silly logic.

Roads are built for traffic not as a dog sanctuary.  I must conclude from the paucity of evident brain cells that you are a dog lover, or worse, owner.  How can ANYONE defend roaming stray dogs on a highway?

[Brierley]

1 minute ago, mikebell said:

Roads are built for traffic not as a dog sanctuary.  I must conclude from the paucity of evident brain cells that you are a dog lover, or worse, owner.  How can ANYONE defend roaming stray dogs on a highway?

Nope and nope.

 

And I'm not defending roaming stray dogs, neither am I defending careless negligent driving and trying to find excuses for it. The dog got out some how, it shouldn't but it did, dogs can perhaps be forgiven because they are only simple creatures that aren't taught road safety or the danger of roads. What was the drivers excuse!

[Captain Monday]

On 5/12/2021 at 1:33 PM, RobU said:

Look at the photo the motorbike is buried so far into the front of the car that it remains upright. The motorcyclist was not thrown forward  the car was moving so fast that the bike was pushed from under her and she hit the windscreen that kind of accident only happens when the car is travelling at very high speed.

Is the the bike standing up photo exactly how the accident scene was discovered or part of the investigation? I think it would be unlikely a motorbike could remain upright like that,

 

I have personally witnessed an accident  overseas where the hit and run culprit vehicle was brought back by the accident scene by police using a  tow-truck. The accident vehicles were photographed together simply to demonstrate how the damages match up. The guilty driver rear ended another car so hard  his radiator/other critical parts failed.  The criminal only made it a few kilometers away before he broke down.  Bystanders called police so apprehended.  Reportedly DRUNK!

[Leaver]

On 5/11/2021 at 11:30 PM, josthomz said:

 

So because he drives a Benz he was "flashing his wealth" 

 

Cheap charlies really have no shame....

 

Yes, he was flashing his wealth, and now he'll pay a higher price for doing do.  

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, Leaver said:

On 5/11/2021 at 11:30 PM, josthomz said:

 

So because he drives a Benz he was "flashing his wealth" 

 

Cheap charlies really have no shame....

 

Yes, he was flashing his wealth, and now he'll pay a higher price for doing do.  

 

No one driving a C-Class Mercedes is flashing any wealth... they have simply chosen on brand over another.

 

The sort of projection made by anyone who thinks someone driving a C-Class Mercedes is flashing their wealth probably would be attempting impress others with a C-Class Merc while 99% of people around don’t notice and don’t care.

 

 

[johng]

C class Mercedes   ฿2.48 - ฿2.99 Million     Nissan Almera  ฿499,000 - ฿639,000

 

almost 5 Nissan's  or 1 Benz   ????

[Leaver]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

No one driving a C-Class Mercedes is flashing any wealth... they have simply chosen on brand over another.

 

The sort of projection made by anyone who thinks someone driving a C-Class Mercedes is flashing their wealth probably would be attempting impress others with a C-Class Merc while 99% of people around don’t notice and don’t care.

 

 

 

Mercedes is a brand synonymous with wealth, no matter what model.

 

He could have bought a regular car, but chose a Mercedes.  No problem, his choice.  

 

Do you think the BiB care if it's a C-Class. The fact that it's a Mercedes will see them have baht signs in their eyes.  

 

Buying a Mercedes here is hardly flying under the radar.  

[Leaver]

9 minutes ago, johng said:

C class Mercedes   ฿2.48 - ฿2.99 Million     Nissan Almera  ฿499,000 - ฿639,000

 

almost 5 Nissan's  or 1 Benz   ????

 

I don't think he'll pay five times the "get out of gaol" money just because he was in a Mercedes, but for sure it will be more than if he was in a Nissan, and claimed to not be very rich.  

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I don't think he'll pay five times the "get out of gaol" money just because he was in a Mercedes, but for sure it will be more than if he was in a Nissan, and claimed to not be very rich.  

Is that more of a factor than that of being a foreigner?